Difference between revisions of "Week 11 Questions/Comments"
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When reading Jannicke Saehle's letter to her brother in the piece titled, "A Norwegian Immigrant in Wisconsin," I was shocked about how cheerful she was regarding her situation. She was thrilled to be making 1 dollar a week, which was strange to me, for many women mentioned in Sanger's study had made the same salary, had found it insufficient and thus decided to become prostitutes. Perhaps Saehle is so positive about her experience because she had just recently arrived in America, and had yet to encounter some of the harsh realities that other immigrants in New York faced. ~Juliann Boyles | When reading Jannicke Saehle's letter to her brother in the piece titled, "A Norwegian Immigrant in Wisconsin," I was shocked about how cheerful she was regarding her situation. She was thrilled to be making 1 dollar a week, which was strange to me, for many women mentioned in Sanger's study had made the same salary, had found it insufficient and thus decided to become prostitutes. Perhaps Saehle is so positive about her experience because she had just recently arrived in America, and had yet to encounter some of the harsh realities that other immigrants in New York faced. ~Juliann Boyles | ||
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| + | I agree with Juliann. Jannicke probably was naïve to the realities of her new home. But how wonderful to be as optimistic as she seems to be.---Cheryl | ||
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| + | There is also the very real possibility that she did not want to worry her family members at home with a long list of the bad parts of her new life so she focused on the positives. If she was like the other women who left Europe for America then the conditions in her homeland were such that warranted her leaving and trying to make her own in the world. Julie Castanien | ||
When reading Xin Jin's Contract, I remembered what Dr. McClurken had said about how the Chinese were the most exploited of all the immigrant groups. Although, in the contract, it mentions that Xin Jin had volunteered in her service of prostitution to pay off her debt, more than likely, there was manipulation going on there. How can someone consent when they don't understand what is being said to them? The language barrier alone must have been a reason why so many Chinese immigrants initially had "consented" to prostitution. I was a little disturbed when I read the part in her contract where it mentions additional work time in the instances of sickness or pregnancy, in that profession, how can one expect not to face such obstacles? When reading this piece, I got the impression that prostitution was an endless reality for many of the immigrant Chinese women, one without pay or hope of successfully getting out. ~Juliann Boyles | When reading Xin Jin's Contract, I remembered what Dr. McClurken had said about how the Chinese were the most exploited of all the immigrant groups. Although, in the contract, it mentions that Xin Jin had volunteered in her service of prostitution to pay off her debt, more than likely, there was manipulation going on there. How can someone consent when they don't understand what is being said to them? The language barrier alone must have been a reason why so many Chinese immigrants initially had "consented" to prostitution. I was a little disturbed when I read the part in her contract where it mentions additional work time in the instances of sickness or pregnancy, in that profession, how can one expect not to face such obstacles? When reading this piece, I got the impression that prostitution was an endless reality for many of the immigrant Chinese women, one without pay or hope of successfully getting out. ~Juliann Boyles | ||
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| + | Juliann, I have actually discussed the prostitution of Chinese immigrant women in California in another history class and they were coerced into a kind of sexual slavery as far back as the 1840s and 50s (with the gold rush). They usually worked in teriible conditions. In the San Fransisco red light district they were displayed in windows of buildings in these things called cribs- where they would be in view of people on the streets while doing their business. In all it was pretty horrible but some women were able to make lots of money in this manner. --Julie Castanien | ||
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| + | In the intro to Xin Jin's contract, Wolloch mentioned that prostitutes could be "redeemed" for a fee and were married to Chinese men. Would this have been against the women's will? Would she have preferred the marriage to years of prostitution? --Alex K. | ||
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| + | I was surprised at how similar all of the prostitution contracts were. Pretty much all of them referred to four or four and a half years of service, time off for the four diseases, if she is sick for more than 15 days then she works for a month extra and if she is pregnant she will serve an extra year. Was it such a regular and established practice that everyone already knew the "going rate?"--Alex K. | ||
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| + | On the subject of prostitution, the article by William Sanger on New York Prostitutes I found rather interesting. Some of the reasons they had for becoming prostitutes were so horrible, not from the stand point that they were horrible bu that their own families and husbands had left them to this as the means to support themselves. I think that so often we get caught up in the "they volunteered for it" frame of mind (not that some didnt of course) that we sometimes lose sight of the idea that for many they were as manipulated into the profession as some of the Chinese immigrant women.--Mary P. | ||
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| + | I agree, I find interesting that Sanger would blame men as the reason that forced almost all women to become prostitutes. However, I do not think this is because he is feminist or understands a woman's plight. Even though almost 1/4 claimed they choose prostituion because of inclination he thinks they just misunderstand what really made them choose prostitution. This is because according to Sanger a woman has no sexual desire unless it is first roused by a man. He says inclination would "imply an innate depravity, a want of of true womanly feeling, which is actually incredible." According to Sanger if women did truely choose prostitution because they liked it, it would be much harder for the progressives to "grapple" with the "vice" that plagues the cities. -- Emily Miller | ||
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| + | When reading "A Citizen Protests the Rape of Indian Women in California, 1862," I found it interesting that the person writing this was so outraged by the soldier's rape of Indianquaws. The writer goes as far as to ask that if the Lieutenant of the soldiers was present during this rape, that this rank and position be stripped of him. I wonder if the writer would have had the same reaction had it been black women rather than Indian women who were raped.--E. Hufford | ||
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| + | Mrs. Green’s Account of Frontier Life in Colorado, 1887, did not surprise me how she felt about Colorado’s Great American Desert. It really is not a desert but a prairie. To a person who lived all their life in a wooded area, the prairie would look like a desert. Colorado’s prairies can actually be rather beautiful at certain times of the year. Many different kinds of wildlife inhabit the prairie especially back in the 1880s. It was too bad that Mrs. Green was too homesick and depressed to marvel at the different land that she now had a chance to experience. Though I do understand her feelings because that is how I felt when I moved from Colorado to Virginia. ---Cheryl | ||
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| + | Susan Shelby Magoffin seemed to have adapted to her life in Santa Fe New Mexico. I liked how she was happy to embrace the company of her family and friends. I thought her descriptions of the people she encountered were wonderful. I felt it showed just how much she enjoyed her new experiences.---Cheryl | ||
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| + | I also was surprised to read such a positive account from an immigrant coming to America. Although her trip over to New York sounded very difficult she is remarkably cheerful throughout the letter and credits God for getting her through the journey. In response to Juliann’s comment I’m guessing that Ms. Saehle is pleased with her $1.00 a week wages because they were more than she would have been able to earn in Norway. At the end of her letter Ms. Saehle makes a note that she received three acres of land for her work as a servant to the Torjersen family. Was giving land to new immigrants a common way to reimburse them? This form of reimbursement seems like an excellent way to help immigrants start their new lives in America. -Caitlin Quinn | ||
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| + | Its always amazing to me how some people can be so accepting and opptimistic of a new situation, like Ms. Saehle and Susan Magoffin for instance, while others can be so pessimistic and depressed like Mrs. Green. It does bear noting however that the cicumstances for ech woman was very different. Susan Magoffin was full of hope just having married a successful merchant and Ms. Saehle was embarking on a new journey with new opportunities for her. Mrs. Green however was going out west with her ambitious husband, which makes it sound like ambitions are all he has and not much else, and she has two young children. Personally I cannot even begin to imagine how painful moving across the country in a wagon with two small children would be. Without asprin. Shudder at the thought. Honestly I cant say that I would be all peaches and cream in her position myself. --Mary P. | ||
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| + | Also in regards to Jannicke Saehle's wage, I think she would be happy with the amount because she has the opportunity to earn a raise. This is probably something that wouldn't have happened in Norway. - F. Cobb | ||
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| + | When reading Sanger's (Woloch) documentation of New York prostitutes I was wondering why he was so sympathetic? Perhaps it is also a reflection of Sanger's view towards women (women were too weak to resist temptation or seduction)? - F. Cobb | ||
