'''Samuel de Champlain seemed to focus quite a bit of his attention on the courtship of the Natives.''' It was a big change compared to Europeans after all. He spoke of men and women running from cabin to cabin at night, enjoying whoever’s company they please. Then in the next paragraph he brings up the point of how the husband cannot be sure the child his wife bears is actually his. We talked about this in class, this is astonishing to Europeans as the “need” a male heir to carry on the family name or be the next in line to the throne (if they are royal.) –Megan Mc.

'''Samuel de Champlain seemed to focus quite a bit of his attention on the courtship of the Natives.''' It was a big change compared to Europeans after all. He spoke of men and women running from cabin to cabin at night, enjoying whoever’s company they please. Then in the next paragraph he brings up the point of how the husband cannot be sure the child his wife bears is actually his. We talked about this in class, this is astonishing to Europeans as the “need” a male heir to carry on the family name or be the next in line to the throne (if they are royal.) –Megan Mc.

I agree that the difference between Native American and European men when it comes to children is amazing. Champlain writes about how when a woman has children, her preceeding husbands come visit and claim the child is his. In Europe, women wouldn't have had so many ex-husbands, if they even had one ex. If the paternity of a child was questioned, his mother and the child would be stigmatized. I understand why Champlain was so interested in this, it is completely different from the practices he was used to. -Katelyn Lease

I agree that '''the difference between Native American and European men when it comes to children is amazing.''' Champlain writes about how when a woman has children, her preceeding husbands come visit and claim the child is his. In Europe, women wouldn't have had so many ex-husbands, if they even had one ex. If the paternity of a child was questioned, his mother and the child would be stigmatized. I understand why Champlain was so interested in this, it is completely different from the practices he was used to. -Katelyn Lease

This reading of Samuel de Champlain was a stark contrast to the readings of other European settlers/observers that I read in the Woloch reading. Champlain believes women to be servants to the men, and he says "they follow their husbands from place to place in the fields, where they serve as mules for carrying the baggage." (Page 25) He also noticed that the men "do nothing" except for hunting and other simple tasks, which are in no comparison as difficult as the women's tasks. I wonder what made the observations/accounts so different between Champlain and say, Roger Williams. Was it just a personal bias/values that made the articles so different? Or was another factor in play also? --- Alex Mankarios  

This reading of Samuel de Champlain was a stark contrast to the readings of other European settlers/observers that I read in the Woloch reading. Champlain believes women to be servants to the men, and he says "they follow their husbands from place to place in the fields, where they serve as mules for carrying the baggage." (Page 25) He also noticed that the men "do nothing" except for hunting and other simple tasks, which are in no comparison as difficult as the women's tasks. I wonder what made the observations/accounts so different between Champlain and say, Roger Williams. Was it just a personal bias/values that made the articles so different? Or was another factor in play also? --- Alex Mankarios  

Did anyone get the impression that maybe there was a hint of jealousy among the Europeans when it came to the courtship of Native Americans? Perhaps they resented being so sexual restricted within their own communities, and felt that the only proper way to address those feelings were to pass negative judgments upon a culture they could not understand. After all, doesn't our culture resemble the pre-colonial Native Americans when it comes to modern day dating and marriage? Now days, it practically unheard of to marry a person you have not already lived with for a while. When a couple splits, the children usually go with the mother, or whoever is the more secure "bread winner." American's today divorce over the slightest irreconcilable differences, and there is little to no stigma on divorcees anymore, they way there had been in the past. Men court women with expensive gifts, and women usually turn to their family and network or "village" of best friends to help them decide if they should marry a man. It is really not much different from how the Native American's approached marriage several hundred years ago. So, I suppose that after all the Europeans effort to assimilate Native Americans into their way of life, modern day Americans have assimilated to the Native American way of life.--[[User:Mturner|Mary Turner]] 07:22, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

'''Did anyone get the impression that maybe there was a hint of jealousy among the Europeans when it came to the courtship of Native Americans? Perhaps they resented being so sexual restricted within their own communities, and felt that the only proper way to address those feelings were to pass negative judgments upon a culture they could not understand'''. After all, doesn't our culture resemble the pre-colonial Native Americans when it comes to modern day dating and marriage? Now days, it practically unheard of to marry a person you have not already lived with for a while. When a couple splits, the children usually go with the mother, or whoever is the more secure "bread winner." American's today divorce over the slightest irreconcilable differences, and there is little to no stigma on divorcees anymore, they way there had been in the past. Men court women with expensive gifts, and women usually turn to their family and network or "village" of best friends to help them decide if they should marry a man. It is really not much different from how the Native American's approached marriage several hundred years ago. So, I suppose that after all the Europeans effort to assimilate Native Americans into their way of life, modern day Americans have assimilated to the Native American way of life.--[[User:Mturner|Mary Turner]] 07:22, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

== Mary Musgrove assists the Georgians in Dealing with the Choctaws, 1734 & Mary Musgrove Seeks aid for past service from GA, 1747 ==

== Mary Musgrove assists the Georgians in Dealing with the Choctaws, 1734 & Mary Musgrove Seeks aid for past service from GA, 1747 ==

The major thought that came to my mind while reading this was how multiple Native American women wanted a young white son.  I feel that if the roles were reversed and a white woman had a male Native captive, there wouldn't be any other woman who would want him or any hostility regarding it.  I find it interesting that he was so valued that Net-no-kwa was so interested in having him. '''Did they find the whites valuable or was he simply filling the role of a son?'''  - Christine Leckner

The major thought that came to my mind while reading this was how multiple Native American women wanted a young white son.  I feel that if the roles were reversed and a white woman had a male Native captive, there wouldn't be any other woman who would want him or any hostility regarding it.  I find it interesting that he was so valued that Net-no-kwa was so interested in having him. '''Did they find the whites valuable or was he simply filling the role of a son?'''  - Christine Leckner