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Deprecated: header(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($response_code) of type int is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 38 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=426--Week_8_Questions%2FComments--Thursday426--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Thursday - Revision history2026-09-18T22:16:27ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.22.0 Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php on line 505
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday&diff=4386&oldid=prevJcirenz: /* The Welcome Child */2009-03-12T05:47:03Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">The Welcome Child</span></span></p>
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<td colspan='2' style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">Revision as of 05:47, 12 March 2009</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I felt this chapter talked a lot about over crowding and over population.  When I was reading it I was wondering, was the discussion of sterilization, restraint and birth control really aimed at middle to upper class families?  Walters has successfully separated the content from the context in this book, but there were other reasons for population increases.  Take immigration, for example.  "Excessive child-breaing" was not the only reason the population grew.  Perhaps the authors were referring to other classes and people, whose children were less desirable members of society.  So what does that mean about who might read these?  Did immigrants buy into this stuff?  Or were these arguments just code for trying to clean up society?--Amanda</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I felt this chapter talked a lot about over crowding and over population.  When I was reading it I was wondering, was the discussion of sterilization, restraint and birth control really aimed at middle to upper class families?  Walters has successfully separated the content from the context in this book, but there were other reasons for population increases.  Take immigration, for example.  "Excessive child-breaing" was not the only reason the population grew.  Perhaps the authors were referring to other classes and people, whose children were less desirable members of society.  So what does that mean about who might read these?  Did immigrants buy into this stuff?  Or were these arguments just code for trying to clean up society?--Amanda</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I was very interested to see how the author reflected on how Thomas Malthus's logistical model effected 19th century people's sexual activity. I also felt like Knowlton and Owen other writers were feeding into the Malthusian model.  These scientists talk about how birth control was said to preserve female health, increase working class prosperity allow early marriage and keep youth from frequenting places of debauchery. I got the sense that they were reaching for straws on the moral side of the issue and painted a rosy picture that contraception would allow families to start at an earlier age rather than on the flipside causing increased underage sexual activity. -Joe C.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Perfecting The Race ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Perfecting The Race ==</div></td></tr>
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday&diff=4384&oldid=prevJcirenz: /* Epilogue */2009-03-12T05:38:44Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Epilogue</span></span></p>
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<td colspan='2' style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">Revision as of 05:38, 12 March 2009</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No, it kind of came off that way to me too.  It seemed very, random, almost.  Like he wanted to try to add in women's rights at the last minute as a little bit of a "hurrah" but failed.  I don't know, the whole women's rights, marital rights, thing should have been avoided, in my opinion, unless it were to be brought up somewhere else in the book.  Like the Introduction and Preface, it just seemed out of place with the rest of the book and overall theme of things.  -Kelly W.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No, it kind of came off that way to me too.  It seemed very, random, almost.  Like he wanted to try to add in women's rights at the last minute as a little bit of a "hurrah" but failed.  I don't know, the whole women's rights, marital rights, thing should have been avoided, in my opinion, unless it were to be brought up somewhere else in the book.  Like the Introduction and Preface, it just seemed out of place with the rest of the book and overall theme of things.  -Kelly W.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Was the point of the epilogue <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">do </del>describe how 19th century society lacked women's say on the topic of sex? Was it more that men misinterpreted the role of women (gap between ideal home and real one) and their freedoms?  I personally think the epilogue was about the latter and how the author is expressing how male writers simply built stereotypes in their writings about women. -Joe C.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Was the point of the epilogue <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">to </ins>describe how 19th century society lacked women's say on the topic of sex? Was it more that men misinterpreted the role of women (gap between ideal home and real one) and their freedoms?  I personally think the epilogue was about the latter and how the author is expressing how male writers simply built stereotypes in their writings about women. -Joe C.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Rotundo: Chapter 6 ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Rotundo: Chapter 6 ==</div></td></tr>
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday&diff=4383&oldid=prevJcirenz: /* Epilogue */2009-03-12T05:38:28Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Epilogue</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No, it kind of came off that way to me too.  It seemed very, random, almost.  Like he wanted to try to add in women's rights at the last minute as a little bit of a "hurrah" but failed.  I don't know, the whole women's rights, marital rights, thing should have been avoided, in my opinion, unless it were to be brought up somewhere else in the book.  Like the Introduction and Preface, it just seemed out of place with the rest of the book and overall theme of things.  -Kelly W.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No, it kind of came off that way to me too.  It seemed very, random, almost.  Like he wanted to try to add in women's rights at the last minute as a little bit of a "hurrah" but failed.  I don't know, the whole women's rights, marital rights, thing should have been avoided, in my opinion, unless it were to be brought up somewhere else in the book.  Like the Introduction and Preface, it just seemed out of place with the rest of the book and overall theme of things.  -Kelly W.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Was the point of the epilogue do describe how 19th century society lacked women's say on the topic of sex? Was it more that men misinterpreted the role of women (gap between ideal home and real one) and their freedoms?  I personally think the epilogue was about the latter and how the author is expressing how male writers simply built stereotypes in their writings about women. -Joe C.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Rotundo: Chapter 6 ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Rotundo: Chapter 6 ==</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I agree with Kari that many of these scenarios seem very unbelievable. For instance, Graham's assertion that moving to an all vegetable diet altered the behavior of two young boys seems very unlikely. Yet I wonder how many people believed it when they read such stories in advice manuals. --Sarah Gardner</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I agree with Kari that many of these scenarios seem very unbelievable. For instance, Graham's assertion that moving to an all vegetable diet altered the behavior of two young boys seems very unlikely. Yet I wonder how many people believed it when they read such stories in advice manuals. --Sarah Gardner</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">These stories did seem a little out there (like the rest of the book) and whether the stories and letters are fabricated or they are the honest truth, it does offer a bit of a change at the end of the book. Whereas the authors throughout these chapters were professionals offfering their opinions and advice, at least this gives a different point of view, or a look into how society really accepted their words. - Celia</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Epilogue ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Epilogue ==</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was surprised at first that this mindset didn't spring mostly from the religious activists of the time period, but from the secularists as well.  But then again, I guess during this time period the middle class was so conscious about preserving itself that this was an "easy" way to make sure only those who "should" procreate were going to.  Ah, the idea of eugenics.  -Kelly W.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was surprised at first that this mindset didn't spring mostly from the religious activists of the time period, but from the secularists as well.  But then again, I guess during this time period the middle class was so conscious about preserving itself that this was an "easy" way to make sure only those who "should" procreate were going to.  Ah, the idea of eugenics.  -Kelly W.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Well, looking at the times that they lived in- Darwinism, reform, religious revival, the Civil War- it is no surprise that these people who are becoming obsessed with science wish to perfect America. It's like Walters says in the beginning of the book, that through sexual control came the elevation of the human spirit and intelligence, therefore creating a better and "true" civilization. This book is about the middle-class' idealized social standards,and they wanted to re-create themselves through sex and sexual control. They thought they were the true civilization - Celia</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Some Nineteenth Century Lives==  </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Some Nineteenth Century Lives==  </div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I thought that is was a very interesting article. The article really portrayed courting as a power struggle between men and women, something which I had never considered before. What surprised me in reading this article was the length of some of the courtships. I understand that men were expected to be capable of financially caring for their wives before they could get married but I can imagine how frustrating it would be to find the right person and wait three and four and five years to marry them. --Sarah Gardner</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I thought that is was a very interesting article. The article really portrayed courting as a power struggle between men and women, something which I had never considered before. What surprised me in reading this article was the length of some of the courtships. I understand that men were expected to be capable of financially caring for their wives before they could get married but I can imagine how frustrating it would be to find the right person and wait three and four and five years to marry them. --Sarah Gardner</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The section on the length and the complications of courtship reminded me of a book I read last semester called "The Coquette." It was a fictional book, meant to be letters written by a woman and her two suitors.  She had to choose between the boring and safe man, or the man who was less financially secure and a flirt. She waited too long in her decision, and both men stopped pursuing her; she ended up pregnant, depressed, and then died alone in childbirth.  The message in that book (written in the 19th century) was clear: if women did not marry they would end up destitute, pregnant, and dead.  In relating this back to "American Manhood," the author really emphasized the social pressures and expectations of courting and marriage.--Joyce</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was very surprised by the eugenics promoted by Victorian men. The idea that "superior varieties of human beings" (150) could be made through higher reproduction amongst the upper class clearly indicates class bias and prejudice, especially against immigrants. Really, they are portraying sex as the duty of these so-called "superior" men and women. I also thought it was interesting that they tied God and religion into the idea that all mean and women are not equal and were never meant to be equal. Rather, they believed that God intended for man to use his sexual powers to produce a superior group of human beings. This leads me to wonder how many Victorians agreed with this way of thinking. --Sarah Gardner</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was very surprised by the eugenics promoted by Victorian men. The idea that "superior varieties of human beings" (150) could be made through higher reproduction amongst the upper class clearly indicates class bias and prejudice, especially against immigrants. Really, they are portraying sex as the duty of these so-called "superior" men and women. I also thought it was interesting that they tied God and religion into the idea that all mean and women are not equal and were never meant to be equal. Rather, they believed that God intended for man to use his sexual powers to produce a superior group of human beings. This leads me to wonder how many Victorians agreed with this way of thinking. --Sarah Gardner</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I was surprised at first that this mindset didn't spring mostly from the religious activists of the time period, but from the secularists as well.  But then again, I guess during this time period the middle class was so conscious about preserving itself that this was an "easy" way to make sure only those who "should" procreate were going to.  Ah, the idea of eugenics.  -Kelly W.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Some Nineteenth Century Lives==  </div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>==Some Nineteenth Century Lives==  </div></td></tr>
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday&diff=4369&oldid=prevKwuyscik: /* Epilogue */2009-03-12T03:13:05Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Epilogue</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This section just confused me, maybe I read it wrong, but the books seemed to rant on about sex, masturbation, and birth control and then BAM! women's rights in the epilogue.  Shouldn't there have been some mention of that elsewhere in the book?  This is a very confusing and annoying book.... --Ashley Wilkins</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This section just confused me, maybe I read it wrong, but the books seemed to rant on about sex, masturbation, and birth control and then BAM! women's rights in the epilogue.  Shouldn't there have been some mention of that elsewhere in the book?  This is a very confusing and annoying book.... --Ashley Wilkins</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">No, it kind of came off that way to me too.  It seemed very, random, almost.  Like he wanted to try to add in women's rights at the last minute as a little bit of a "hurrah" but failed.  I don't know, the whole women's rights, marital rights, thing should have been avoided, in my opinion, unless it were to be brought up somewhere else in the book.  Like the Introduction and Preface, it just seemed out of place with the rest of the book and overall theme of things.  -Kelly W.</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Rotundo: Chapter 6 ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Rotundo: Chapter 6 ==</div></td></tr>
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday&diff=4364&oldid=prevSgard9lv: /* Some Nineteenth Century Lives */2009-03-12T01:59:20Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Some Nineteenth Century Lives</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I thought this chapter with the "real life" experiences was ridiculous.  I don't know how accurate these stories are, but they seem like very extreme experiences.  I feel like adding these stories into the advice manuals made these illnesses appear more real to the readers and was a type of scare tactic to get people to be sexually moral. -- Kari W.  </div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I thought this chapter with the "real life" experiences was ridiculous.  I don't know how accurate these stories are, but they seem like very extreme experiences.  I feel like adding these stories into the advice manuals made these illnesses appear more real to the readers and was a type of scare tactic to get people to be sexually moral. -- Kari W.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">I agree with Kari that many of these scenarios seem very unbelievable. For instance, Graham's assertion that moving to an all vegetable diet altered the behavior of two young boys seems very unlikely. Yet I wonder how many people believed it when they read such stories in advice manuals. --Sarah Gardner</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Epilogue ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Epilogue ==</div></td></tr>
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday&diff=4363&oldid=prevMdill1cp at 01:54, 12 March 20092009-03-12T01:54:39Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I also found the double standard irritating.  Women were expected to be so much more moral and proper than men were and quite frequently they ended up with a ruined reputation for some minor action.  I thought that some of that was interesting, however, especially in the section on courtship.  Rotundo makes some interesting comments on women who were considered coquettes and the fact that king of behavior might be their only way to grasp control in the situation and they were seen as manipulative or vain and flighty. -Lacey</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I also found the double standard irritating.  Women were expected to be so much more moral and proper than men were and quite frequently they ended up with a ruined reputation for some minor action.  I thought that some of that was interesting, however, especially in the section on courtship.  Rotundo makes some interesting comments on women who were considered coquettes and the fact that king of behavior might be their only way to grasp control in the situation and they were seen as manipulative or vain and flighty. -Lacey</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">As mentioned above the double standard between sexual behaviors of men and women was interesting, but what I found particularly interesting was the class double standard. As we discussed briefly in class on Tuesday, Dr. Blackwell alluded to a double standard based upon prostitution due to class and once again we see this. We see this double standard with prostitution, but also with lower class girls. I think it was very interesting that it was not deemed as impure to have sexual relations with a lower class girl. It was best summed up with the statement, “sex and nice girls should have nothing to do with each other.” – Mary Beth</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Also in the courtship section of the chapter Rotundo talks about the fact that men responded to their beloveds' letters more quickly than women did to their men.  I thought this was really funny because the woman that I am writing my paper was almost twice as prolific than her husband in letter writing.  This might be that her letters to him survived better than his, or any number of other reasons, but the fact that Edith appears to be an outlier made me giggle. -Lacey</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Also in the courtship section of the chapter Rotundo talks about the fact that men responded to their beloveds' letters more quickly than women did to their men.  I thought this was really funny because the woman that I am writing my paper was almost twice as prolific than her husband in letter writing.  This might be that her letters to him survived better than his, or any number of other reasons, but the fact that Edith appears to be an outlier made me giggle. -Lacey</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Lacey has already mentioned the lengthy and more frequent love letters written by men which I also thought was interesting. I was really surprised that these love letters were the typical behavior of men. Since marriage had such a strong emphasis on manhood I would think expressing such emotions, especially in long love letters would be seen as more feminine. I can understand the eagerness of men to get married, but I would think it would be deemed by society as more appropriate for them to express it in their eagerness to find jobs or pressure women to shorter engagements, not in love letters. – Mary Beth  </ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I thought that is was a very interesting article. The article really portrayed courting as a power struggle between men and women, something which I had never considered before. What surprised me in reading this article was the length of some of the courtships. I understand that men were expected to be capable of financially caring for their wives before they could get married but I can imagine how frustrating it would be to find the right person and wait three and four and five years to marry them. --Sarah Gardner</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I thought that is was a very interesting article. The article really portrayed courting as a power struggle between men and women, something which I had never considered before. What surprised me in reading this article was the length of some of the courtships. I understand that men were expected to be capable of financially caring for their wives before they could get married but I can imagine how frustrating it would be to find the right person and wait three and four and five years to marry them. --Sarah Gardner</div></td></tr>
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