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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Tuesday&diff=4180&oldid=prevJcirenz: /* Chapter 1 - Tom and Sally */2009-02-17T07:44:34Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Chapter 1 - Tom and Sally</span></span></p>
<table class='diff diff-contentalign-left'>
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<td colspan='2' style="background-color: white; color:black; text-align: center;">Revision as of 07:44, 17 February 2009</td>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was intrigued by the fact that Jefferson's kids with Sally were considered white after he freed them (enjoying all the privileges of any other white citizen) and that all of Jefferson's house slaves looked white. It seems like pro-slavery arguments depend on the slaves being black. What justification would a 19th century Southerner have for enslaving someone who was white? None of their arguments about racial inferiority would apply. It seems like this would have been a very problematic situation for Southern society, but in the reading they just seem to deal with it pretty nonchalantly. How does that work? -- Rebecca</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was intrigued by the fact that Jefferson's kids with Sally were considered white after he freed them (enjoying all the privileges of any other white citizen) and that all of Jefferson's house slaves looked white. It seems like pro-slavery arguments depend on the slaves being black. What justification would a 19th century Southerner have for enslaving someone who was white? None of their arguments about racial inferiority would apply. It seems like this would have been a very problematic situation for Southern society, but in the reading they just seem to deal with it pretty nonchalantly. How does that work? -- Rebecca</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I am also in agreement with Amanda about Rothman's extrapolation of the relationship and family of Tom and Sally. I found it most of that extrapolation to come from his description of the conception of their children and how Callender misinterpreted the family situation. --Joe C.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 2 - David and Nancy ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 2 - David and Nancy ==</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>In reading this chapter I was struck by the use of sexual insults and foul language of women towards women of other races. Such insults and accusations do not fit with the image I had of the proper Virginia lady. --Sarah Gardner</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>In reading this chapter I was struck by the use of sexual insults and foul language of women towards women of other races. Such insults and accusations do not fit with the image I had of the proper Virginia lady. --Sarah Gardner</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I have to agree with Sarah, but the author makes similar references to the opposite gender when referring to African American and White males who loaded their language with sexual implications.  I'd have to say that this is comparable to today's society in especially the lingo between races. --Joe C.</ins></div></td></tr>
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Tuesday&diff=4178&oldid=prevRgraham: /* Chapter 1 - Tom and Sally */2009-02-17T05:15:52Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Chapter 1 - Tom and Sally</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I have to agree with Amanda that the amount of time devoted to this topic is excessive. I also feel, that while Rothman's argument is convincing, he appears so determined to prove Jefferson and Sally were intimate that he makes many assuming statements and infers a great deal more then is apparent in the written history. I can see that circumstances were ripe for a relationship and yet I do not know if I believe everything that the author suggests about it, particularly as he basis his argument off of the work of Callender, a very disgruntled enemy of Jefferson. --Sarah Gardner</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I have to agree with Amanda that the amount of time devoted to this topic is excessive. I also feel, that while Rothman's argument is convincing, he appears so determined to prove Jefferson and Sally were intimate that he makes many assuming statements and infers a great deal more then is apparent in the written history. I can see that circumstances were ripe for a relationship and yet I do not know if I believe everything that the author suggests about it, particularly as he basis his argument off of the work of Callender, a very disgruntled enemy of Jefferson. --Sarah Gardner</div></td></tr>
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<b>Deprecated</b>: Creation of dynamic property _HWLDF_WordAccumulator::$_tag is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/diff/DairikiDiff.php</b> on line <b>1169</b><br />
<tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was intrigued by the fact that Jefferson's kids with Sally were considered white after he freed them (enjoying all the privileges of any other white citizen) and that all of Jefferson's house slaves looked white. It seems like pro-slavery arguments depend on the slaves being black. What justification would a 19th century Southerner have for enslaving someone who was white? None of their arguments about racial inferiority would apply. It seems like this would have been a very problematic situation for Southern society, but in the reading they just seem to deal with it pretty <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">non-chalantly</del>. How does that work? -- Rebecca</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was intrigued by the fact that Jefferson's kids with Sally were considered white after he freed them (enjoying all the privileges of any other white citizen) and that all of Jefferson's house slaves looked white. It seems like pro-slavery arguments depend on the slaves being black. What justification would a 19th century Southerner have for enslaving someone who was white? None of their arguments about racial inferiority would apply. It seems like this would have been a very problematic situation for Southern society, but in the reading they just seem to deal with it pretty <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">nonchalantly</ins>. How does that work? -- Rebecca</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 2 - David and Nancy ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 2 - David and Nancy ==</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I have to agree with Amanda that the amount of time devoted to this topic is excessive. I also feel, that while Rothman's argument is convincing, he appears so determined to prove Jefferson and Sally were intimate that he makes many assuming statements and infers a great deal more then is apparent in the written history. I can see that circumstances were ripe for a relationship and yet I do not know if I believe everything that the author suggests about it, particularly as he basis his argument off of the work of Callender, a very disgruntled enemy of Jefferson. --Sarah Gardner</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I have to agree with Amanda that the amount of time devoted to this topic is excessive. I also feel, that while Rothman's argument is convincing, he appears so determined to prove Jefferson and Sally were intimate that he makes many assuming statements and infers a great deal more then is apparent in the written history. I can see that circumstances were ripe for a relationship and yet I do not know if I believe everything that the author suggests about it, particularly as he basis his argument off of the work of Callender, a very disgruntled enemy of Jefferson. --Sarah Gardner</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I was intrigued by the fact that Jefferson's kids with Sally were considered white after he freed them (enjoying all the privileges of any other white citizen) and that all of Jefferson's house slaves looked white. It seems like pro-slavery arguments depend on the slaves being black. What justification would a 19th century Southerner have for enslaving someone who was white? None of their arguments about racial inferiority would apply. It seems like this would have been a very problematic situation for Southern society, but in the reading they just seem to deal with it pretty non-chalantly. How does that work? -- Rebecca</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 2 - David and Nancy ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 2 - David and Nancy ==</div></td></tr>
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Tuesday&diff=4176&oldid=prevSgard9lv: /* Chapter 3 - Brothels and Prostitution */2009-02-17T05:11:36Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Chapter 3 - Brothels and Prostitution</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Cash's point is a good one.  I thought of the chapter like Lacey, but I can see how prosecution for other crimes was a means of decreasing (or at least hushing) prostitution.  And, I like the tourism pamphlet line.--Amanda</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Cash's point is a good one.  I thought of the chapter like Lacey, but I can see how prosecution for other crimes was a means of decreasing (or at least hushing) prostitution.  And, I like the tourism pamphlet line.--Amanda</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">In reading this chapter I was struck by the use of sexual insults and foul language of women towards women of other races. Such insults and accusations do not fit with the image I had of the proper Virginia lady. --Sarah Gardner</ins></div></td></tr>
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Tuesday&diff=4175&oldid=prevRgraham: /* Overarching Topics */2009-02-17T05:06:49Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Overarching Topics</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This week is supposed to be interracial sex and all that jazz... however, with my own view points I have problems with the whole "Those two people can't be together and have a family because of the color of their skin."  So... articles and monographs that touch of the subject usually make me moody, upset, or annoyed.  I know its the difference in opinions of people then and now, but why couldn't people just leave others alone?  If you don't like what 2 other people are doing, don't look at them.  If people did like Mrs. White Jane Doe having sex with Mr. Black Joe Smith, then don't pay attention to them.  Let them live their lives and ignore them.  If they want to have a kid, who cares.  The people in the 1800s needed to be honest with themselves, people were already having sex 'across the color line,' but no one seemed to care much until blacks were free, honestly, does it matter that the blacks were free?  Oy.... --Ashely Wilkins</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>This week is supposed to be interracial sex and all that jazz... however, with my own view points I have problems with the whole "Those two people can't be together and have a family because of the color of their skin."  So... articles and monographs that touch of the subject usually make me moody, upset, or annoyed.  I know its the difference in opinions of people then and now, but why couldn't people just leave others alone?  If you don't like what 2 other people are doing, don't look at them.  If people did like Mrs. White Jane Doe having sex with Mr. Black Joe Smith, then don't pay attention to them.  Let them live their lives and ignore them.  If they want to have a kid, who cares.  The people in the 1800s needed to be honest with themselves, people were already having sex 'across the color line,' but no one seemed to care much until blacks were free, honestly, does it matter that the blacks were free?  Oy.... --Ashely Wilkins</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ashley's comments remind me of some societal attitudes towards homosexual relationships. Just like interracial sex became more of an issue when slaves were free, homosexual sex is seen as more threatening if same sex marriage is allowed. I think people were willing to tolerate interracial sex as long as everyone understood it to be taboo. But when blacks were free, and there was a possibility of creating a legally recognized interracial family, that is when people had big problems with it. I think the same sort of thing is happening with gay marriage today. -- Rebecca</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I find it strange that it was not necessarily frowned upon for people to have interracial relationships before the civil war in Virginia.  I feel as if society has always looked down, to some degree, on interracial relationships, particularly in the south.  When did this shift occur, from a don’t ask don’t tell view, to a viewpoint that clearly frowned upon interracial relationships?  -Andrew B</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I find it strange that it was not necessarily frowned upon for people to have interracial relationships before the civil war in Virginia.  I feel as if society has always looked down, to some degree, on interracial relationships, particularly in the south.  When did this shift occur, from a don’t ask don’t tell view, to a viewpoint that clearly frowned upon interracial relationships?  -Andrew B</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>As in all eras, there is a proper and improper way to do things. It was not considered improper to have interracial relationships; however, it was if you publically flaunted it. Jefferson's relationship with Sally wasn't considered imporper because he didn't publically acknwledge it, even though many knew about it. However, Callender was considered more dishonorable for publicizng a gentleman's sexual relationship with his slave. Does anyone think that reactions have changed since then on people's sexual behavior and the people who expose them? - Celia</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>As in all eras, there is a proper and improper way to do things. It was not considered improper to have interracial relationships; however, it was if you publically flaunted it. Jefferson's relationship with Sally wasn't considered imporper because he didn't publically acknwledge it, even though many knew about it. However, Callender was considered more dishonorable for publicizng a gentleman's sexual relationship with his slave. Does anyone think that reactions have changed since then on people's sexual behavior and the people who expose them? - Celia</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Responding to Celia's question, I think that in some circles not much has changed. I remember the reaction that a lot of people had to Ken Star when he exposed all the details of the Clinton/Monica affair. A lot of people (by which I mean Democrats) felt like it was inappropriate. -- Rebecca</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Like Andrew, I've read a lot about Tom and Sally.  Rothman's scenarios for what could have happened, the possible reasons for the relations and explanations were interesting, but I felt it was really a lot of extrapolation.  Clearly it was a complex situation, but no concrete answer is ever going to be reached, even with DNA evidence.  His conclusions about sex across the color line again are interesting, but I felt this chapter was a little drawn out.--Amanda</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Like Andrew, I've read a lot about Tom and Sally.  Rothman's scenarios for what could have happened, the possible reasons for the relations and explanations were interesting, but I felt it was really a lot of extrapolation.  Clearly it was a complex situation, but no concrete answer is ever going to be reached, even with DNA evidence.  His conclusions about sex across the color line again are interesting, but I felt this chapter was a little drawn out.--Amanda</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Like Andrew, I've read a lot about Tom and Sally.  Rothman's scenarios for what could have happened, the possible reasons for the relations and explanations were interesting, but I felt it was really a lot of extrapolation.  Clearly it was a complex situation, but no concrete answer is ever going to be reached, even with DNA evidence.  His conclusions about sex across the color line again are interesting, but I felt this chapter was a little drawn out.--Amanda</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Like Andrew, I've read a lot about Tom and Sally.  Rothman's scenarios for what could have happened, the possible reasons for the relations and explanations were interesting, but I felt it was really a lot of extrapolation.  Clearly it was a complex situation, but no concrete answer is ever going to be reached, even with DNA evidence.  His conclusions about sex across the color line again are interesting, but I felt this chapter was a little drawn out.--Amanda</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I have to agree with Amanda that the amount of time devoted to this topic is excessive. I also feel, that while Rothman's argument is convincing, he appears so determined to prove Jefferson and Sally were intimate that he makes many assuming statements and infers a great deal more then is apparent in the written history. I can see that circumstances were ripe for a relationship and yet I do not know if I believe everything that the author suggests about it, particularly as he basis his argument off of the work of Callender, a very disgruntled enemy of Jefferson. --Sarah Gardner</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 2 - David and Nancy ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 2 - David and Nancy ==</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I thought this chapter on interracial relations was very interesting. I was very impressed and surprised by how they were able to use the law for their benefit even though it was meant to limit them. For instance, Nancy was able to hold more power then the average white women, owning property and having no need for a dowry, as she was considered to be unmarried. The discussion of how to define Nancy's race was also interesting. It really reflects the implications that being white, black, or mulatto had on one's life --Sarah Gardner</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I thought this chapter on interracial relations was very interesting. I was very impressed and surprised by how they were able to use the law for their benefit even though it was meant to limit them. For instance, Nancy was able to hold more power then the average white women, owning property and having no need for a dowry, as she was considered to be unmarried. The discussion of how to define Nancy's race was also interesting. It really reflects the implications that being white, black, or mulatto had on one's life --Sarah Gardner</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">What popped into my head at one point while reading this was something we talked about last week.  We had discussed that freed blacks eventually had to carry papers around with them to prove they weren't enslaved and when Nancy had to go and testify in court to prove she was born free in VA it was the first thing that I thought of.  It's really unfortunate that freed blacks were always stepping on eggshells. -Kelly W.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 3 - Brothels and Prostitution ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 3 - Brothels and Prostitution ==</div></td></tr>
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Deprecated: Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php on line 51 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=426--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Tuesday&diff=4171&oldid=prevSgard9lv: /* Chapter 2 - David and Nancy */2009-02-17T04:05:36Z<p><span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Chapter 2 - David and Nancy</span></span></p>
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<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I think we have to remember these are like case studies.  Rothman uses one couple to make a broad point.  Celia: I do agree with Rothman's point, but also think luck may have had more to do with it than the other factors.  As he pointed out earlier, every instance of interracial relations could be brought up and judged on a case-by-case basis.  David and Nancy could easily had a different, less fortunate fate.--Amanda</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I think we have to remember these are like case studies.  Rothman uses one couple to make a broad point.  Celia: I do agree with Rothman's point, but also think luck may have had more to do with it than the other factors.  As he pointed out earlier, every instance of interracial relations could be brought up and judged on a case-by-case basis.  David and Nancy could easily had a different, less fortunate fate.--Amanda</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color:black; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I thought this chapter on interracial relations was very interesting. I was very impressed and surprised by how they were able to use the law for their benefit even though it was meant to limit them. For instance, Nancy was able to hold more power then the average white women, owning property and having no need for a dowry, as she was considered to be unmarried. The discussion of how to define Nancy's race was also interesting. It really reflects the implications that being white, black, or mulatto had on one's life --Sarah Gardner</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr>
<tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 3 - Brothels and Prostitution ==</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f9f9f9; color: #333333; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #e6e6e6; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>== Chapter 3 - Brothels and Prostitution ==</div></td></tr>
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