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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==


== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==

I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did "in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide." (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.

Why does she suddenly realize that she has a greater purpose and more potential than she has had in the past? --Catherine K.

==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==

I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. ''' Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. "But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman's loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having 'killed negro suffrage.'" (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. ''' It's easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman's rights over black rights were racist, but it's also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman's rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  '''This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.'''  It's easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it's situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.

== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==

'''What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn't feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn't until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband's death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don't like to talk about it; I can't imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.''' -- Katie C.

'''I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.''' Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:
'''"the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain."'''
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. 
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, "the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party." I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.

When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P

'''After reading Harper's speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation'''.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech "how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support." (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.

== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.

== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==
'''What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. ''Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?''''' -Heather T.

'''I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a "tool"? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women'''. --Rebecca W.

I don't feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the "sphere". ''' However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being "left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors." (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.''' I thought men weren't much "help" during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.

The impression I took from this piece is that Amelia Barr said what she said purely out of her own fear of the change that potentially could be brought out of women's suffrage.  She seems to fear the most the idea of the role of women vanishing as they will take on a more masculine one through their newly acquired political power stating,"women will cease to be women." Its odd to me that a woman so outspoken and passionate about something would willingly support a way of life that hindered that ability. I wonder how she was viewed by society and if her message could be trusted as it was slightly hypocritical. --Rachel T.

== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==


== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==

'''Gilman's argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.''' I get what she's saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but '''I actually felt she didn't give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.''' She's right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn't all they wanted to do. --Katie C.

When I read this, I didn't really view it as dismissive. I think that she has found a new sense of freedom,and she wants all other women to realize that they can make a difference outside the home. I agree that often times "stay at home" mothers have negative stereotypes, but could she simply just have been excited for the opportunities she saw in her future?--Catherine K.

== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==

'''While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?''' --Mary Beth M.

'''In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn't they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?''' --Aqsa Z.

== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==


In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as "the high road to fortune." Furthermore, they have "no thought of permanence" for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because "there is no one to earn for them," as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. '''These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women's rights movements. These groups of women's would likely not have the same ideals concerning women's rights, based on why they earn livings.''' --Clare O.

Campbell's acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.''' Campbell writes: "From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them" (294)'''. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.

Campbell's description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of "sales lady" is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, "gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,"allow the shop girls to "stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired" (415).-- Michelle M.

'''I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn't want to clean it or cook anything that wasn't a steak in a kitchen that wasn't enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible'''. --Nicole

It is interesting she describes the shop girls is very interesting to me. The way they act and attempt to imitate the rich women who come into the shops would make one think that these girls had hopes of one day achieving that goal of eliteness.  On the contrary however, most seemed most concerned with finding a husband and getting married. That appears to be the only way some girls think they can move up in life. --Grace C.

== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==

Lucy Maynard Salmon's study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. '''The chart lists employees' answers to "What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?" (419-420).''' The most prominent answer from domestics is "Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants." Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, "Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don't take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over" (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell's piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.

'''While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell's piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon's piece, there doesn't seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position'''. Granted, it isn't the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. '''Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon's piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.''' According to Campbell's writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.

What I found to be very interesting about Lucy Maynard Salmon's writing were the footnotes, especially the second set. Were foreign women really seen as not knowing "what neatness means" (297)? Why did the the social status of domestic girls fall when the Chinese started working in homes as domestic servants? "Before the introduction of Chinese labor a young girl never lost social caste by doing housework; but since this element came, household service as an occupation has fallen in social scale." (297)Was this fall because these white women were lowered to the same level as these immigrants who were taking over the position? --Jennifer S.

== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==

The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are "ambitious" and desire for upward social mobility (299). '''Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices.''' The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women.''' This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women.''' --Ellen S.

In Eaton's study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. '''One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, "If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won't never have another. They think all colored is a like"''' (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon's study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.

'''Many of the points made in Eaton's study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it "savors of slavery".''' This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.

When Isabel Eaton asked the question '"Have you ever tried to do other work?" a large number of domestics replied, "I never go any place I'm not sure of-- won't give them a chance to refuse me."' (299)Why were black women so scared to go out and fight for opportunities? Another woman said "The reason I don't try to teach is because I know I'd have trouble..." (299)Why were these women so willing , it seems to settle for less? There had to have been some opportunities for them outside of domestic work. It is also interesting to think that this problem was in Philadelphia, a free state, during the Civil War. Would it have been easier for black women to get and maintain domestic work in the south? Were they preferred over white women, in the south? --Jennifer S.

I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant's race became an issue. '''It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place.''' --Nicole

This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? 
'''Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn't it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around?''' --Aqsa Z.

While I read this report I thought back to class and the discussion about Francis Ellen Watkins Harper who saw black men needing more help and support than any other group.  But clearly after reading "Black Servants in Philadelphia" black women are clearly in need of help as they face both prejudice for both their gender and race when it comes to finding work.  These women would have to fight for jobs that were clearly beneath them and makes me wonder why black leaders such as Watkins ignored their struggle? Why was this clearly less fortunate class not given help in their greatest time of need by the countless organizations who apparently "fought" for their well being? -- Rachel T.

== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==

In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as "pioneers in the business world," because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that "the girls make good wives," something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.

The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. '''Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. "Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable" (301)'''. She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. '''One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family.''' It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that's all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.

I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn't this a time of work when you can and where you can and don't complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.

Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it's surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.

I found this statement particularly interesting: "...[M]en have outgrown their admiration for feminine helplessness and have come to look upon independence as something worth having." I wonder how true this statement was. In 1891, the concept of separate spheres would still have been very much in play. Does this signal the beginning of the breakdown of separate spheres? --Stefanie L.

==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==

To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read "...it was believed, did no productive work" (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.

'''I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor?''' Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that '''Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality'''.--Emma C.

== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==

 
I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  '''I also thought it was interesting to see the line "But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist" (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later. ''' She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can't help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S

'''What I found interesting about Sadie Frome's "Story of a Sweatshop girl" was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me!''' -Heather T.

I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P

'''Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.”''' Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.

What surprised me about this passage was how dry her tone was.  When talking about the death of her mother and father and the injuries some workers sustained, she seemed to give off almost no emotion. I can't tell whether this was simply the way she talked or, as Heather suggested, her words were translated, making them appear less emotional.  One thing you can tell from this passage is just how strong of a person she was.  Even when times were horrible, she kept on pushing forward. I thought it was very interesting when she said a fortune teller told her she would one day be very rich and happy, and that is the reason she kept working so hard. ---Grace C.

Althoug Sadie's discussion of he job is interesting, it is her discussion of her life outside of her job that is mostpigant. In a search for normalcy nd a life outside of the sweatshop, she states that she forces herself to go out after wor instead ofgoing to sleep. She also spends a lot of money n clothes in order to appear as if she beongs in a higher class. She recognizes that through education and bettering herself she can achieve a better and different life. --Hannah W.