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Deprecated: header(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($response_code) of type int is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 38 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=NjesionkMcClurken Wiki - User contributions [en]2026-07-12T22:13:31ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.22.0https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_14_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 14 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-21T03:50:49Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>Bob McDonnell was criticized a lot on the blogs about his interpretation of Virginia's "shared history". Some said that he was leaving out those who were not Confederates, those that left to form West Virginia, and slaves. Others argued that Governor McDonnell was just issuing a proclamation about Virginia Confederate History month in April and his proclamations should not scrutinized. What are your opinions? -avanness <br />
<br />
I think it would be neat to have an event that related to the memory of the Civil War either in a more state-run commemoration or at the University. Maybe something like an open forum or discussion, that could include academic scholars, where the average public could comment on the way they have remembered the Civil War or their opinions on its memory. It could even be something like a survey that people would fill out just to get an idea about how historians, history teachers, Civil War buffs, or people who may not be so interested in the Civil War think about it today. -avanness<br />
<br />
I noticed that the proclamation left out West Virginia leaving Virginia during the Civil War. Do you think that this is an important event that should be included in the Civil War History Month of Virginia? Or do you think that it does not fit into the larger aspect of Civil War history of Virginia? -MK<br />
<br />
I think that it would be really neat to interview people all of ages to see how people today think about, understand, and commemorate the Civil War. I think it would be really interesting to see how many people are Civil War "buffs" and how other people think about or understand the Civil War. Maybe turning these interviews into some kind of documentary would be the best format to present it. -MK<br />
<br />
Something that really struck me from McDonnell's proclamation was when he stated that after the Confederacy surrendered, they returned home to their families in peace. He definitely glosses over some of the major issues of the war (and reconstruction) and presents a simplistic version, as many of the CW blogs criticized him for. Also, while reading through some of the reactions to the proclamation, there were a lot of great points raised, especially in the comments. On Robert Moore's blog, (http://cenantua.wordpress.com), he makes the distinction between heritage over history and how passion can sometimes get the best of people. Do you think that this issue of heritage and history is going to impact the way in which states approach the sesquicentennial? Is there anyway to present a more complicated, rather than simplistic view of the war without raising concerns from groups like the NAACP who had issues in 2000 with Gov. Gilmore's proclamation? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I like things that are more interactive and get people involved. I think if there was some way to create some Civil War 'thing' (Im hesitant to use the word "event") that was both educational and interactive, people may be attracted to it. I think its important to get people of all ages involved which is why I really like MK's idea because I think it is good to get an idea of what all types of people think about the war. -ABratchie<br />
<br />
For our second post pertaining to how Mary Washington can coomertate the Civil War I feel that we can do alot for the seqsuicentenial.I think we should defitnatly have more classes pertaining to the Civil War. We could have a Civil War class based like the great live series and have talks pertaining to influential people of the Civil War. Also since the Fredericksburg battlefield is very close to Mary Washington it is important to make sure that we do commeration events with the national park service. Overall just getting the word out about the Civil War sequicential will help the Mary Washington community remember the Civil War. Nick<br />
<br />
On the Old Virginia blog, as well as in the comments sections of a couple other ones, people complained that historians wanted McDonnell to be "PC." But political correctness often protects the memory of the Confederacy, either by portraying Southerners as innocents oblivious to the evils of slavery and as having been mobilized mostly in response to a Northern invasion, or by implying that the cause of the war is still an open debate. So what are people talking about when they complain about political correctness? What version of political correctness do they mean, and why do they phrase it that way? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Finding a "good" way to commemorate the Civil War may not be the way to attract people to an event. If you hold a conference, very few will come or care. If the state financed some kind of elaborate reenactment, it would probably be inaccurate or offensive or both, but there would be a better chance of attracting people who would pay for tickets, hotels, etc. -GStan.<br />
<br />
Alright: McDonnell's first proclamation sounds like it was written by the UDC, and it was real wrong, but it it also sounds like it's something somebody would want to celebrate. The most recent one is a little more complicated, a little more correct, but it sounds just a little schizophrenic. I guess I think that maybe something like the history of the Confederacy is not the kind of thing a politician can use to promote tourism. Not without being negligent. --Erin B.<br />
<br />
I find it irritating that the governor uses the term "all Virginians" so often. All Virginians do not have a legacy of the Confederacy that they want to remember. Many of today's Virginians ancestors came after the Civil War or are not originally from Virginia to begin with. I also think that he is just further prompting the Lost Cause narrative when he says that the reason Confederate soldiers returned home was because of the "insurmountable numbers and resources" of the Union Army not just because they lost, fair and square. Basically, I think there is an enormous Lost Cause flavor to this that definitely does not represent "all Virginians." - Angie<br />
<br />
After reading Governor McDonnell's proclamation about the Civil War and the posts concerning reaction about his proclamation overall I was impressed by the proclamation and Virginia's plan for the Civil War sequicential. McDonnell is doing everything he can to try and accomodate the desires of everyone in their remebrance of the Civil War, but as the governor indicated it is an extremely hard task to accomplish. Virginia is a very diverse commonwealth and it is is hard to make everyone happy because no one shares similar views pertaining to the war. Overall I am exicited by the events that are planned to commerate the Civil War, but do you think that certain groups will feel neglated vby the events that are being planned? -Nick<br />
<br />
I think that a commemoration event should be held here in Fredericksburg that educates and discusses women's role in the Civil War and how it changed gender roles in society. I think that the majority of commemoration events deal with soldiers (mostly men) but women were greatly effected by the war. I also think the event needs to be careful to discuss all different types of women and not just white, middle class women. - Angie</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_14_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 14 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-21T03:19:46Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>Bob McDonnell was criticized a lot on the blogs about his interpretation of Virginia's "shared history". Some said that he was leaving out those who were not Confederates, those that left to form West Virginia, and slaves. Others argued that Governor McDonnell was just issuing a proclamation about Virginia Confederate History month in April and his proclamations should not scrutinized. What are your opinions? -avanness <br />
<br />
I think it would be neat to have an event that related to the memory of the Civil War either in a more state-run commemoration or at the University. Maybe something like an open forum or discussion, that could include academic scholars, where the average public could comment on the way they have remembered the Civil War or their opinions on its memory. It could even be something like a survey that people would fill out just to get an idea about how historians, history teachers, Civil War buffs, or people who may not be so interested in the Civil War think about it today. -avanness<br />
<br />
I noticed that the proclamation left out West Virginia leaving Virginia during the Civil War. Do you think that this is an important event that should be included in the Civil War History Month of Virginia? Or do you think that it does not fit into the larger aspect of Civil War history of Virginia? -MK<br />
<br />
I think that it would be really neat to interview people all of ages to see how people today think about, understand, and commemorate the Civil War. I think it would be really interesting to see how many people are Civil War "buffs" and how other people think about or understand the Civil War. Maybe turning these interviews into some kind of documentary would be the best format to present it. -MK<br />
<br />
Something that really struck me from McDonnell's proclamation was when he stated that after the Confederacy surrendered, they returned home to their families in peace. He definitely glosses over some of the major issues of the war (and reconstruction) and presents a simplistic version, as many of the CW blogs criticized him for. Also, while reading through some of the reactions to the proclamation, there were a lot of great points raised, especially in the comments. On Robert Moore's blog, (http://cenantua.wordpress.com), he makes the distinction between heritage over history and how passion can sometimes get the best of people. Do you think that this issue of heritage and history is going to impact the way in which states approach the sesquicentennial? Is there anyway to present a more complicated, rather than simplistic view of the war without raising concerns from groups like the NAACP who had issues in 2000 with Gov. Gilmore's proclamation? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I like things that are more interactive and get people involved. I think if there was some way to create some Civil War 'thing' (Im hesitant to use the word "event") that was both educational and interactive, people may be attracted to it. I think its important to get people of all ages involved which is why I really like MK's idea because I think it is good to get an idea of what all types of people think about the war. -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On the Old Virginia blog, as well as in the comments sections of a couple other ones, people complained that historians wanted McDonnell to be "PC." But political correctness often protects the memory of the Confederacy, either by portraying Southerners as innocents oblivious to the evils of slavery and as having been mobilized mostly in response to a Northern invasion, or by implying that the cause of the war is still an open debate. So what are people talking about when they complain about political correctness? What version of political correctness do they mean, and why do they phrase it that way? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Finding a "good" way to commemorate the Civil War may not be the way to attract people to an event. If you hold a conference, very few will come or care. If the state financed some kind of elaborate reenactment, it would probably be inaccurate or offensive or both, but there would be a better chance of attracting people who would pay for tickets, hotels, etc. -GStan.<br />
<br />
Alright: McDonnell's first proclamation sounds like it was written by the UDC, and it was real wrong, but it it also sounds like it's something somebody would want to celebrate. The most recent one is a little more complicated, a little more correct, but it sounds just a little schizophrenic. I guess I think that maybe something like the history of the Confederacy is not the kind of thing a politician can use to promote tourism. Not without being negligent. --Erin B.<br />
<br />
I find it irritating that the governor uses the term "all Virginians" so often. All Virginians do not have a legacy of the Confederacy that they want to remember. Many of today's Virginians ancestors came after the Civil War or are not originally from Virginia to begin with. I also think that he is just further prompting the Lost Cause narrative when he says that the reason Confederate soldiers returned home was because of the "insurmountable numbers and resources" of the Union Army not just because they lost, fair and square. Basically, I think there is an enormous Lost Cause flavor to this that definitely does not represent "all Virginians." - Angie<br />
<br />
After reading Governor McDonnell's proclamation about the Civil War and the posts concerning reaction about his proclamation overall I was impressed by the proclamation and Virginia's plan for the Civil War sequicential. McDonnell is doing everything he can to try and accomodate the desires of everyone in their remebrance of the Civil War, but as the governor indicated it is an extremely hard task to accomplish. Virginia is a very diverse commonwealth and it is is hard to make everyone happy because no one shares similar views pertaining to the war. Overall I am exicited by the events that are planned to commerate the Civil War, but do you think that certain groups will feel neglated vby the events that are being planned? -Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_14_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 14 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-19T02:35:20Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>The McConnell article was interesting - even if his whole geography metaphor was kind of a stretch. The most interesting idea in terms of this class is the function of historical memory as a subject and also its evolution out of the democratized history of the 1960s. Do you agree that the study of historical memory serves in part to assign sort of a "watchdog" role to the trained historian over the proliferation of individual perceptions and stories? Do you see it as a clear evolution of the "bottom-up" history from the 1960s? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
What is the importance and influence of monuments and other physical objects in the League of the South and the Southern Party? -avanness <br />
<br />
Women were barred from the "ranks of academic historians" yet they could write sentimental fiction that many men were incapable or unable to write. What impact do you think sentimental fiction about the Civil War that was written by women had on people and the process of remembering the war? -avanness<br />
<br />
Is there a suggestion for a commemoration that Gilmore could have made that would have made everyone happy? What function does making anything like a "Confederate History Month" or a "Proclamation Honoring all Virginians..." serve? Does it serve any real function other than answering the requests of a certain group? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
What does McConnell mean by saying that Memory has geography? How was the geography of memory pertaining to the Civil War developed over the last 150 years? -Nick J<br />
<br />
I thought the Shackel piece was interesting, namely his discussion of the neo-confederate movement. He precedes this by talking about how African Americans tried to preserve their heritage which was an interesting contrast between the way the South tries to remember their heritage. Do you think that either African Americans or proponents of the Confederacy are successfully able to preserve their 'hertiage' and how far should a group of go to do so (like the League of the South)? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Shackel starts off his piece by saying that the Lost Cause and the many monuments and other commemoration materials stemmed partly from their being no political outlet for southerners to express their views in. After the Civil War, Southerners were not pushing for the restoration of their cultural heritage and values on a political field, so they turned to commemoration. If neo-confederates are coming into existence, are monuments and commemoration still needed in the South? Why are there neo-confederate politics if the Lost Cause has been such a popular movement, was that movement not enough? - Angie<br />
<br />
McConnell's piece had a lot of interesting points that we have sort of touched on throughout the semester. Towards the end of the chapter, he discusses historical memory and briefly touches on its origins. How much trust and credibility should be placed on historical memory of the Civil War? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I really liked how McConnell discussed public space and how what goes into that public space is reflective of who is in power. If we are to look at public spaces over time and see what has changed or been placed in them (such as monuments, buildings, or even plaques) it seems as though we could make a judgement of who was in power at the time. When confederate memorials were built, it seems safe to say that Confederate sympathizers were in charge. But when a confederate flag is brought down, does that say that they are no longer in that position? In the end, public spaces seem really important to how we understand society. - Angie<br />
<br />
Why do you think there was so much resentment from Southerns to the erection of an Arthur Ash on Monument Avenue in Richmond Virginia, where Ash was from. Was the only reason they were against it was because they felt that the monument did no belong there since this famous avenue only contained monuments of Confederate Generals. Do you think if the Ash monument was put somewhere besides monument avenue that there would have been no resentment against the monument from neo-Confederates.- Nick J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_14_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 14 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-19T02:11:05Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>The McConnell article was interesting - even if his whole geography metaphor was kind of a stretch. The most interesting idea in terms of this class is the function of historical memory as a subject and also its evolution out of the democratized history of the 1960s. Do you agree that the study of historical memory serves in part to assign sort of a "watchdog" role to the trained historian over the proliferation of individual perceptions and stories? Do you see it as a clear evolution of the "bottom-up" history from the 1960s? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
What is the importance and influence of monuments and other physical objects in the League of the South and the Southern Party? -avanness <br />
<br />
Women were barred from the "ranks of academic historians" yet they could write sentimental fiction that many men were incapable or unable to write. What impact do you think sentimental fiction about the Civil War that was written by women had on people and the process of remembering the war? -avanness<br />
<br />
Is there a suggestion for a commemoration that Gilmore could have made that would have made everyone happy? What function does making anything like a "Confederate History Month" or a "Proclamation Honoring all Virginians..." serve? Does it serve any real function other than answering the requests of a certain group? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
What does McConnell mean by saying that Memory has geography? How was the geography of memory pertaining to the Civil War developed over the last 150 years? -Nick J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_13_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 13 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-14T02:38:00Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''NOTE: Please include name and link to Blogs you're discussing.'''<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought this blog was interesting. I liked how it was a more of an “average joe's” perspective of the Civil War and the Sesquicentennial as opposed to a scholarly or academic viewpoint. He included a lot of various topics that revolve around the Civil War in his posts. He included, for example, a mentioning of an interview with the great great grandson of Grant, information on a sculptor who died who created the “Lone Sailor”. He also includes other topics in his posts such as baseball and and since he is also a volunteer in the Interpretation Division at Ellis Island National Monument, he does include some information about this place. What do you think about a blog that is structured in this way? If he titles the site Sesquicentennial site, is it okay that he includes posts about subjects that do not relate to the Civil War? -avanness<br />
<br />
One of the sites I looked at was the President Lincoln's Cottage blog. This was a pretty simple, informative site about Lincoln's cottage and other topics that pertain to the president. I liked how the site contained news, updates, information about the cottage and the soldiers’ home. It also included information about visiting the cottage. I noticed that a few of the posts actually contained footnotes with the posts being written by various employees who work at the cottage. It seemed to be a very formal and accurate site. Do you think the general public would be more interested in a site like this, one that is more informative and accurate or in a blog such as the one from "Strawfoot"; one from an average person who is maybe just a Civil War buff? What can you possibly take away from either? -avanness<br />
<br />
I like The Strawfoot Blog (http://thestrawfoot.wordpress.com/). It was interesting to read a northern perspective on the Civil War and how New York state is preparing for the sesquicentennial. In a lot of his posts, he mainly talks about his travels to various Civil War sites and his experiences. He doesn't seem to any apparent slant or take on the meaning of the war, which I thought was interesting. How much emphasis and credibility should be placed on Blogs such as this one, a guy who has no real professional Civil War training? What can be learned from blogs like this? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Reading through the blog Crossroads (http://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/) I found a lot of Professor Simpson's (ASU) posts interesting. In one of his more recent posts about the sesquicentennial, he remarks "I view the sesquicentennial as one large educational opportunity." Would you agree that the sesquicentennial is an educational opportunity or is it simply just another 'event'? Do you think that by focusing on education rather than entertainment (and possibly even commemoration) for the sesquicentennial people will less inclined to particpate? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
One of the blogs I looked at, "Civil Warriors," (http://civilwarriors.net/wordpress/) contained a lot of random but interesting posts. The blog writers Mark Grimsley and Ethan Rafuse are currently writing books on the civil war and are using this site to interact with their potential readers and exchange information. Most of the posts have to do with current events that deal with Civil War memory, such as how Thomas P. Lowry is currently being accused of altering a Lincoln document.- aaskins<br />
<br />
I also looked at "My Old Confederate Home" (http://myoldconfederatehome.blogspot.com/), a blog kept by Rusty Williams who wrote the book ''My Old Confederate Home: a respectable place for Civil War veterans''. He posts information on the sources he used to write this book, and includes a lot of interesting anecdotes about some of the vets. My favorite story was about a vet who on his 100th birthday bought an oldsmobile and hired someone to teach him to drive. This blog is quite interesting because it focuses on the vets' everyday lives after the war, and more importantly, how they adjusted to living in veteran homes.- aaskin<br />
<br />
One of the blogs I looked at was Victoria Bynum's blog, "Renegade South" (http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/), which goes into great detail about personal stories of various Southerners involved in the war. It is interesting to see such a level of detail for so many unknown stories. It adds depth to a lot of the stuff we've been talking about. As an added plus, ahe is currently mired in controversy with John Stauffer and Sally Jenkins, and dedicates some of her posts to insulting them or responding to their put downs, which can be found by searching for either of their names. -GStan.<br />
<br />
I read Rantings of a Civil War Historian (http://civilwarcavalry.com/) and the whole time while I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking about our conversation about the difference between academic historians and more "popular" history writers. The guy who writes this blog, Eric Wittenburg, is an attorney from Ohio who really likes to focus on Union tactics and Gettysburg. He also kind of bashes the Lost Causers for fear that they will cause people to forget the real reason behind the war: slavery. I really want to pick up one of his books and read it just to see how he writes eg, academically or for the general public. - Angie<br />
<br />
I also looked at the Civil War Bookshelf blog (http://cwbn.blogspot.com/) which was kind of confusing. It claims to be about historiography but I really didn't find much of that. He kind of just rants on about the same Civil War topic for long periods of time. There was one interesting post, though, where he talks about the difference between "stigmatizers" and "honorers." He basically says there are two types of people: those that want to honor the legacy of the Confederacy (honorers) and those that think its completely ignorant to do so because of slavery (stigmatizers). It was just interesting to see someone actually categorize people like that. - Angie<br />
<br />
The first blog I looked at was " Fredericksburg Remembered The Challenges and adventures of interpreting the history of Fredericksburg, Stafford and Spotslyvania. Overall it is a very good blog focusing on the area and discusses many different Civil War topics that range from Secession, Slavery, John Washington etc. While looking at the various blogs on this website the section I found the most interesting was the section on John Washington. While reading John Washington and the emergence of a voice for Fredericksburg slave I found that statistic provided by David Blight, that out of 9 million slaves only 200 left behind memoirs. What role does a lack of slave memoirs play in determining the remembrance of slaves during the Civil War? -Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_13_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 13 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-12T04:19:09Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>One of the posts I came across from the cwmemory.com/archives website was from the "Teaching" category. The author of the site basically talked about one of his students who is creating a historical fiction story and wanted to use some primary sources. A comment was made about the post that argued how historical fiction novels can be such good teaching tools; they allow students to relate to the character and also teaches them facts. Do you see any negative aspects of using historical fiction to teach in school or to teach children about the past (e.g. the Civil War)? -avanness<br />
<br />
Another post from the cwmemory.com/archives section under "Slavery" was interesting. The post was about a black Confederate general, Randall Lee Gibson. He, however, did not support his African American heritage, nor did he even know about it until someone brought it to his attention. He definitely seemed like he was a racist; in that he basically supported lynching and said that the African American race was the most degrading race. I think Gibson's story does make it a little questionable as to whether or not he was anhttp://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_13_Questions/Comments--Tuesday&action=edit actual black general or not since he didn't see himself as black nor did the town. Do you think someone who does not define themselves as African American and even is discriminatory against the race should be seen as a black Confederate general or should the he only be given the title "Confederate general"? -avanness<br />
<br />
This site (http://npsfrsp.wordpress.com/) was pretty interesting. I read a piece on Salem Church and the pictures were cool to see since now today the area looks nothing like it did in the early 20th century. The area is currently surrounded by a residential area and plenty of business. What does these new, modern landscapes take away from the memory of the Civil War? Is it okay to have battlefields and such surrounded by modernity? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I read a piece on cwmemory.com about Lincoln and the mythology that comes with him. In his post, he talks about an interview with Thomas DiLorenzo and Thomas Woods (and has the video, too) where they list various arguments against Lincoln. He criticizes them for not being aware of the scholarship. This seems to be a reoccurring problem that comes with popular histories (and opinions). How important is it that people are aware of the scholarly literature on a topic (even if they are not a historian nor have the training)? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On cwmemory.com, I read the post about the governor's confederate history month proclamation. I thought he made an interesting point in that the proclamation encourages people to view Virginia's Civil War history from a national perspective, instead of a Virginia-centered perspective. This would mean that slavery was a national problem, not just a Virginian one and that African Americans from VA who fought in the war defeated slavery with the help of the federal government. I disagreed with the proclamation when it was issued, but the author does make some interesting points about its wording. - Angie<br />
<br />
For today's blog post I read an interesting blog concerning Union Black soldiers. Numerous books written about Union soldiers neglects to mention black Union soldiers that participated in the Union war effort, despite them contributing greatly after 1863. Why do you think the contributions by African Americans are also ignored in the commemoration of Union soldiers? -Nick<br />
<br />
I really liked the graffiti section of the npsfrsp blog site mostly because we tend to think of graffiti as a modern sort of delinquency. These soldiers in Falmouth actually tagged different buildings where they were staying by either carving or making a stencil. It seems weird to compare Civil War soldiers with today's graffiti artists but I guess for both of them, its their way of being remembered or leaving something behind. - Angie<br />
<br />
I decided to look at the category "Civil war memory class" on cwmemory.com. In this section, Kevin Levin discusses his thoughts regarding his class form, content, and the general reactions of the students in his high school civil war memory class. In several posts, Levin seems to be trying to demonstrate that the classroom setting is less polemic than he expected. The comments to nearly all his posts reflect this, and it seemed to be a friendly environment to discuss civil war memory. That was my perception until I arrived at his post, <br />
"States Rights v. Slavery: No discernible difference." In the post, he discusses the backgrounds of his students and how their origins do not seem to reflect a bias in civil war education. In that, he has students from the North that were taught a secessionist point of view, and students from the south who were taught that the war was about slavery. He concludes that the difference of approach is based on the teacher and not the area. Someone reacted to his post in the most ridiculous manner. He had apparently misinterpreted this post to be a defense of the secessionist argument and went on a rant about slavery as the cause. What was fascinating about his posts, was that I had never heard such an extreme and ludicrous take on the slavery argument. This guy kept saying that it's time the truth was taught, and I'm sorry for including such a long quote of this comment but it is so ridiculous that I have to include it here:<br />
"I have watched my kid’s history books over the years (four kids, years apart) and noticed how pathetically poliltically correct they all are. Some even claim the South was trying to free the slaves, in time. None, not one, tell the basic truth that the war camem about because the South’s insane demands for the spread of slavery AGAINST the will of the people. Its not only not mentioned in your text books, various bits of BS are there instead. If you can’t teach the truth — because it’s too awful — don’t teach anything. Don’t teach utter nonsense. I don’t expect grade school children, many who are students at schools named after Robert E Lee, to learn that Lee tortured 13 year old children, and sold their infants, and kept a Hunting List of slave girls, in his own handwriting. I don’t expect them to learn in grade school that Lee was obsessed with the capture of one young girl, and paid six times the normal bounty for her, and then had her tortured, and then sold her baby.<br />
You could wait till high school to teach them these awful truths. But at some point, they should learn. Learn that the Southern leaders insisted God ordained not only slavery, but the torture to DEATH of slave women, and that God ordained even the sexual obedience of slave women to their master." Apparently this guy was blocked from posting to the site after more crazy comments following this one. - aaskins<br />
<br />
There are quite a few articles on Levin's site about the black Confederate soldier myth. It is quite prevalent, and there are a suprisingly large number of groups propagating it. As is pointed out by at least one of the articles, and as can be attested to by some of what we have read this semester, this version of the myth is somewhat recent. It used to be that Lost Causers would talk about the faithful slave attending his master before or after battle; it is only more recently that it became about the brave black soldier going into battle alongside his fellow Southerners. Why the change? And is it progress that blacks have risen within this myth at all? -GStan.<br />
<br />
On the nps website, I looked at the category regarding images of destruction in Fredericksburg. Some of the photographs are quite chilling, especially when I realized that these are sites I drive by everyday. They are unrecognizable. It almost seems as though by restoring these houses and buildings, we have erased a major piece of Civil War memory.- aaskins<br />
<br />
I was very interested in the post about the Stonewall Jackson shrine. It discusses if the Stonewall Jackson shrine should have a different name. Do you think the Stonewall Jackson shrine should be renamed and if it should be renamed what should it be renamed to?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_13_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 13 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-12T03:52:02Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>One of the posts I came across from the cwmemory.com/archives website was from the "Teaching" category. The author of the site basically talked about one of his students who is creating a historical fiction story and wanted to use some primary sources. A comment was made about the post that argued how historical fiction novels can be such good teaching tools; they allow students to relate to the character and also teaches them facts. Do you see any negative aspects of using historical fiction to teach in school or to teach children about the past (e.g. the Civil War)? -avanness<br />
<br />
Another post from the cwmemory.com/archives section under "Slavery" was interesting. The post was about a black Confederate general, Randall Lee Gibson. He, however, did not support his African American heritage, nor did he even know about it until someone brought it to his attention. He definitely seemed like he was a racist; in that he basically supported lynching and said that the African American race was the most degrading race. I think Gibson's story does make it a little questionable as to whether or not he was anhttp://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_13_Questions/Comments--Tuesday&action=edit actual black general or not since he didn't see himself as black nor did the town. Do you think someone who does not define themselves as African American and even is discriminatory against the race should be seen as a black Confederate general or should the he only be given the title "Confederate general"? -avanness<br />
<br />
This site (http://npsfrsp.wordpress.com/) was pretty interesting. I read a piece on Salem Church and the pictures were cool to see since now today the area looks nothing like it did in the early 20th century. The area is currently surrounded by a residential area and plenty of business. What does these new, modern landscapes take away from the memory of the Civil War? Is it okay to have battlefields and such surrounded by modernity? -ABratchie<br />
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I read a piece on cwmemory.com about Lincoln and the mythology that comes with him. In his post, he talks about an interview with Thomas DiLorenzo and Thomas Woods (and has the video, too) where they list various arguments against Lincoln. He criticizes them for not being aware of the scholarship. This seems to be a reoccurring problem that comes with popular histories (and opinions). How important is it that people are aware of the scholarly literature on a topic (even if they are not a historian nor have the training)? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On cwmemory.com, I read the post about the governor's confederate history month proclamation. I thought he made an interesting point in that the proclamation encourages people to view Virginia's Civil War history from a national perspective, instead of a Virginia-centered perspective. This would mean that slavery was a national problem, not just a Virginian one and that African Americans from VA who fought in the war defeated slavery with the help of the federal government. I disagreed with the proclamation when it was issued, but the author does make some interesting points about its wording. - Angie<br />
<br />
For today's blog post I read an interesting blog concerning Union Black soldiers. Numerous books written about Union soldiers neglects to mention black Union soldiers that participated in the Union war effort, despite them contributing greatly after 1863. Why do you think the contributions by African Americans are also ignored in the commemoration of Union soldiers? -Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-06T21:18:35Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
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<div>One theme that we kind of keep coming back to and that i think Horwitz's description of Stone Mountain represents, is the difficulty in balancing political correctness with existing symbols of Confederate pride. Is there a way to balance a fair and modern approach to the history of the south while avoiding socially incendiary messages - and still end up with something meaningful? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 312 Horwitz discusses that when he visited Georgia he expected to see reduced homes with charred chimneys, but once again he learned that much of what he had absorbed of the Civil War was more mythic than factual. If Sherman's march to the sea was more mythic than factual in regards to the destruction committed against the Confederate countryside, why do southerners still view Sherman one of if not the biggest Northern villains of the Civil War? What has taken place currently in Civil War memory that make southerners despite Sherman even more today than the did during the Civil Wars?-Nick<br />
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As Horwitz puts it on page 317 why is the fate of prisoner of wars arguably the most neglected aspect of the Civil War? Over 400,000 men were captured during the war and thousands died of diseases due to harsh conditions at prison camps such as Andersonville.Is it because people want to remember simply neglect the pain and suffering that the prison camps symbolized and spend more of their attention on studying aspects of the war that is not as dark and upsetting?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-06T21:06:54Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>One theme that we kind of keep coming back to and that i think Horwitz's description of Stone Mountain represents, is the difficulty in balancing political correctness with existing symbols of Confederate pride. Is there a way to balance a fair and modern approach to the history of the south while avoiding socially incendiary messages - and still end up with something meaningful? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 312 Horwitz discusses that when he visited Georgia he expected to see reduced homes with charred chimneys, but once again he learned that much of what he had absorbed of the Civil War was more mythic than factual. If Sherman's march to the sea was more mythic than factual in regards to the destruction committed against the Confederate countryside, why do southerners still view Sherman one of if not the biggest Northern villains of the Civil War? What has taken place currently in Civil War memory that make southerners despite Sherman even more today than the did during the Civil Wars?-Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-06T21:05:46Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>One theme that we kind of keep coming back to and that i think Horwitz's description of Stone Mountain represents, is the difficulty in balancing political correctness with existing symbols of Confederate pride. Is there a way to balance a fair and modern approach to the history of the south while avoiding socially incendiary messages - and still end up with something meaningful? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 312 Horwitz discusses that when he visited Georgia he expected to see reduced homes with charred chimneys, but once again he learned that much of what he had absorbed of the Civil War was more mythic than factual. If Sherman's march to the sea was more mythic than factual in regards to the destruction committed against the Confederate countryside, why do southerners still view Sherman one of if not the biggest Northern villains of the Civil War? What has taken place currently in Civil War memory that make southerners despite Sherman even more today than the did during the Civil Wars?-Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-05T05:02:39Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>One of the most interesting people Horwitz meets - and certainly one of the most provocative - was Walt, the cable-box repairing, Star Trek-loving, anti-Semitic vegetarian. Walt's extremism and white supremacist ideas evolved out of the tumultuous politics of the 1960s and a lack of faith in government. For Walt, the Confederacy represented subjected peoples around the world and he fit them into an obsessive, self-deduced picture of the conspiracies that run the world. Naturally, Walt is a crazy person, but does this progression from the unrest of the 1960s to a neoconfederate position have some kind of linear path? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
How does the grandson of a Russian Jew from "between Minsk and Pinsk" get interested in the Confederacy? R.King<br />
<br />
On page 149 Shelby Foote talks about the "difference between North and South", is this 'difference' why the South still clings to the memory of the Civil War and believes such a distorted history of the event? R. King<br />
<br />
While Horwitz is in Vicksburg, he notices a different kind of racial divide than he saw in some other places. What is different about the culture of Vicksburg? Or is any place in the South a Guthrie waiting to happen? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
When Horwitz is talking to the African American preacher Michael King, he asks him "if there was any way that white Southerns to honor their forebears without insulting his." King responded with: "Remember you ancestors, but remember what they fought for too. and recognize it was wrong." (pg. 44) I was just curious what yall's thoughts on this was... -MK<br />
<br />
It bugged me, honestly. I don't think the South was "wrong" for what they fought for, and I don't think the north was inherently right. The ideology and rhetoric coming out of the Civil War is that the North was fighting to end racism. We've all come to realize that wasn't really the case, and that the South may honestly have just been fighting to maintain their beliefs. While I don't view myself as a Lost Causer, I think it is a little naive to immediately say that what the South fought for was wrong. --Cash<br />
<br />
In Chapter 6, Horwitz is at the reenactment of the Battle of Wilderness. He discusses some of the draws for reenactors to either fight for the North or South. One of the reasons for siding with the South was "Americans' instinctive allegiance to underdogs." (pg. 136) How much do you think this plays into the general public's minds about the South? -MK<br />
<br />
Before reading this book, I never realized how hardcore some Confederate re-enactors really were, although it does seem to be the select few. These guys, like Hodge, try really hard to get everything exactly right and are willing to re-enact in the dreariest of weather conditions. It makes me wonder, if they try so hard to get the clothes, rations, and battles exactly right, do they try really hard to get the political or social history of the war right as well? - Angie<br />
<br />
Of course, they'd be adamant that you use the term "living history" rather than "reenacting." But the point still stands-these guys are nuts. I have never hear someone use antiquated terminology (read: racist terms) or discuss the political environment of the 1860's, but I'm sure it happens.- Drew<br />
<br />
After our recent discussion of the Confederate battle flag, the section on Michael Westerman, the man with the flag on his truck who was killed in Kentucky, really struck me. I think that this shooting really shows how controversial and dangerous this symbol has become. Horwitz says that during the war, the majority of that county did not even support the Confederacy. The flag seemed to have no real history in the place, yet it became an enormous problem anyways. - Angie<br />
<br />
What is the reason for the continued care and devotion southerners show to the civil war, as seen through Horowitz's many travels? (Family, history highs, religion, way of life, etc)- AJ<br />
<br />
This is a really good question, and one that I really wish I could come to a better answer for. I think it's a matter of commemorating what was lost. I think the Southern belief is truly that they were invaded, and then beaten, despite an inherent belief that they were in the right. I think they probably still hold onto it as a means of understanding. Just a guess though. --Cash<br />
<br />
Is Reenacting truly the "most popular vehicle for civil war remembrance" as Horwitz states on pg 126, or is it just one vehicle? It's hard to discount media, even if it has to be narrowed into subcategories of movies, internet,etc, as a huge vehicle for civil war remembrance. - AJ<br />
<br />
When Horwitz interviews Walt, Walt expresses his disapproval of the State, and insists that he considers himself as a citizen of the Confederate States of America, which has been under military occupation for the last 130 years. I think this is the most extreme example of a Lost Causer I have ever heard of, and frankly, it did not even cross my mind that someone would believe such a thing. Can Walt even be lumped in as a Lost Causer, or is he in whole different category of Confederate loyalists?- aaskins<br />
<br />
I find it fascinating how the Civil War has developed into a sort of cult culture. Horwitz's descriptions of the reenactors I think best illustrate the constant connection (physical and emotional) with this past event and how much it dominates the present.- aaskins<br />
<br />
After our somewhat disparaging comments about Shelby Foote the other day, I found myself understanding- if not agreeing with- his analysis that the Civil War "measures what we are, good and bad. If you look at American history as the life span of a man, the Civil War represents the great trauma of our adolescence. It's the sort of experience we never forget." So my question is: do you agree, or does such a comparison feel forced?- Drew<br />
<br />
At one point Horwitz is speaking with an elderly black woman that weaves and sells baskets. He asks her if it bothers her that the stand next to her is so outwardly pro-confederacy and she replies that "they can talk about the war all they want as long as they remember they lost". Throughout many of the books we're read and discussions that we've had, the idea of the South having lost the war is somewhat more complicated than it should be. The word "lost" seems to have taken on a different idea to many lost causers. So does the South remember that it lost like this woman states? - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
What did you all make of the forgotten "skirmish" of the Citadel cadets? The importance that the institution held it at just reminded me of another claim to fame that you see all over the East Coast. Just another "George Washington slept here" kind of thing. - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
At reonactments why were there usually more people who wanted to portray the Confederacy instead of the North? Reonactors even discussed how it was difficult to accurately demonstrate battles that were supposed to have twice as many Union soldiers, when twice as many reonactors for the Confederacy took part. What problems do these pose on reonactments that strive to be historically accurate?- Nick<br />
<br />
Why did the events of January 9, 1861 become forgotten as the first shots fired in the American Civil War? How did the bombarment at Fort Sumter replace the fighting on January 9, 1861 as the first shots fired in the war?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-05T04:54:09Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>One of the most interesting people Horwitz meets - and certainly one of the most provocative - was Walt, the cable-box repairing, Star Trek-loving, anti-Semitic vegetarian. Walt's extremism and white supremacist ideas evolved out of the tumultuous politics of the 1960s and a lack of faith in government. For Walt, the Confederacy represented subjected peoples around the world and he fit them into an obsessive, self-deduced picture of the conspiracies that run the world. Naturally, Walt is a crazy person, but does this progression from the unrest of the 1960s to a neoconfederate position have some kind of linear path? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
How does the grandson of a Russian Jew from "between Minsk and Pinsk" get interested in the Confederacy? R.King<br />
<br />
On page 149 Shelby Foote talks about the "difference between North and South", is this 'difference' why the South still clings to the memory of the Civil War and believes such a distorted history of the event? R. King<br />
<br />
While Horwitz is in Vicksburg, he notices a different kind of racial divide than he saw in some other places. What is different about the culture of Vicksburg? Or is any place in the South a Guthrie waiting to happen? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
When Horwitz is talking to the African American preacher Michael King, he asks him "if there was any way that white Southerns to honor their forebears without insulting his." King responded with: "Remember you ancestors, but remember what they fought for too. and recognize it was wrong." (pg. 44) I was just curious what yall's thoughts on this was... -MK<br />
<br />
It bugged me, honestly. I don't think the South was "wrong" for what they fought for, and I don't think the north was inherently right. The ideology and rhetoric coming out of the Civil War is that the North was fighting to end racism. We've all come to realize that wasn't really the case, and that the South may honestly have just been fighting to maintain their beliefs. While I don't view myself as a Lost Causer, I think it is a little naive to immediately say that what the South fought for was wrong. --Cash<br />
<br />
In Chapter 6, Horwitz is at the reenactment of the Battle of Wilderness. He discusses some of the draws for reenactors to either fight for the North or South. One of the reasons for siding with the South was "Americans' instinctive allegiance to underdogs." (pg. 136) How much do you think this plays into the general public's minds about the South? -MK<br />
<br />
Before reading this book, I never realized how hardcore some Confederate re-enactors really were, although it does seem to be the select few. These guys, like Hodge, try really hard to get everything exactly right and are willing to re-enact in the dreariest of weather conditions. It makes me wonder, if they try so hard to get the clothes, rations, and battles exactly right, do they try really hard to get the political or social history of the war right as well? - Angie<br />
<br />
Of course, they'd be adamant that you use the term "living history" rather than "reenacting." But the point still stands-these guys are nuts. I have never hear someone use antiquated terminology (read: racist terms) or discuss the political environment of the 1860's, but I'm sure it happens.- Drew<br />
<br />
After our recent discussion of the Confederate battle flag, the section on Michael Westerman, the man with the flag on his truck who was killed in Kentucky, really struck me. I think that this shooting really shows how controversial and dangerous this symbol has become. Horwitz says that during the war, the majority of that county did not even support the Confederacy. The flag seemed to have no real history in the place, yet it became an enormous problem anyways. - Angie<br />
<br />
What is the reason for the continued care and devotion southerners show to the civil war, as seen through Horowitz's many travels? (Family, history highs, religion, way of life, etc)- AJ<br />
<br />
This is a really good question, and one that I really wish I could come to a better answer for. I think it's a matter of commemorating what was lost. I think the Southern belief is truly that they were invaded, and then beaten, despite an inherent belief that they were in the right. I think they probably still hold onto it as a means of understanding. Just a guess though. --Cash<br />
<br />
Is Reenacting truly the "most popular vehicle for civil war remembrance" as Horwitz states on pg 126, or is it just one vehicle? It's hard to discount media, even if it has to be narrowed into subcategories of movies, internet,etc, as a huge vehicle for civil war remembrance. - AJ<br />
<br />
When Horwitz interviews Walt, Walt expresses his disapproval of the State, and insists that he considers himself as a citizen of the Confederate States of America, which has been under military occupation for the last 130 years. I think this is the most extreme example of a Lost Causer I have ever heard of, and frankly, it did not even cross my mind that someone would believe such a thing. Can Walt even be lumped in as a Lost Causer, or is he in whole different category of Confederate loyalists?- aaskins<br />
<br />
I find it fascinating how the Civil War has developed into a sort of cult culture. Horwitz's descriptions of the reenactors I think best illustrate the constant connection (physical and emotional) with this past event and how much it dominates the present.- aaskins<br />
<br />
After our somewhat disparaging comments about Shelby Foote the other day, I found myself understanding- if not agreeing with- his analysis that the Civil War "measures what we are, good and bad. If you look at American history as the life span of a man, the Civil War represents the great trauma of our adolescence. It's the sort of experience we never forget." So my question is: do you agree, or does such a comparison feel forced?- Drew<br />
<br />
At one point Horwitz is speaking with an elderly black woman that weaves and sells baskets. He asks her if it bothers her that the stand next to her is so outwardly pro-confederacy and she replies that "they can talk about the war all they want as long as they remember they lost". Throughout many of the books we're read and discussions that we've had, the idea of the South having lost the war is somewhat more complicated than it should be. The word "lost" seems to have taken on a different idea to many lost causers. So does the South remember that it lost like this woman states? - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
What did you all make of the forgotten "skirmish" of the Citadel cadets? The importance that the institution held it at just reminded me of another claim to fame that you see all over the East Coast. Just another "George Washington slept here" kind of thing. - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
At reonactments why were there usually more people who wanted to portray the Confederacy instead of the North? Reonactors even discussed how it was difficult to accurately demonstrate battles that were supposed to have twice as many Union soldiers, when twice as many reonactors for the Confederacy took part. What problems do these pose on reonactments that strive to be historically accurate?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_11_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 11 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-29T05:10:30Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
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<div>In Chadwick's article, he mentions that Griffith never truly understood the impact of ''Birth of a Nation.'' Do you believe that? -MK <br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article- he says that it yet to be seen whether or not the Lost Cause will be vanquished in modern-day films about the Civil War. Do you think that the Lost Cause rhetoric still plays a big role in people's memory and understanding of the Civil War or has it pretty much faded out? -MK<br />
<br />
<br />
On page 134, Bruce Chadwick explains how many critics and ministers believed Birth of a Nation to be a true story. Many argued for a mandatory showing of the movie in schools and parents should also take their children to see this film; "any parent who neglects this advice is committing an educational offense." How do you think making this a mandatory showing could influence children's and others' thoughts about the Civil War and reconstruction? Keep in mind how Margaret Mitchell was influenced by the movie. -avanness<br />
<br />
What problems or issues can arise when adapting a novel to a film? For example, Margaret Mitchell wrote her novel geared more towards a Southern white audience. Filmmakers thought this "confederate view" could interfere with the romance of the film so changes were made. The most prevalent being the subject of race. -avanness<br />
<br />
Chadwick says that many critics of "Birth of a Nation" argued that it completely (and obviously) ignored the real history of the war. He then goes on to say that this did not matter, because audiences were more concerned with the romantic portrayal of the war anyways. Why do you think audiences cared more about the romanticism? Why didn't they want or care about having more accurate information? - Angie<br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article, I found the difference between the portrayal of slaves in the lost cause films and anti-lost cause films incredible. I always assumed that the portrayal and perception of their role in the war had changed gradually, but it actually did not. In fact, in 1959, there was a film put out about loyal slaves and in 1965 there was a film about anti-slave southerners. The change seems to be abrupt and dramatic. Gallagher attributes it to the Civil Rights movement and Act of 1964, which makes complete sense. - Angie<br />
<br />
How did Griffith combine the numerous Civil War memory themes into one movie? What radical steps did Birth of a Nation take that separated the film from other films that were produced during the early 20th century?- Nick<br />
<br />
Chadwick describes Thomas Dixon's book as being "wholly fictional", do you think Dixon viewed it that way? - R. King<br />
<br />
Why did D.W. Griffith change the name of his film from "The Clansman" to "Birth of a Nation", was it as Chadwick states the idea of Thomas Dixon after viewing the film or was it simply that the the original title was seen as the cause of the protests? R.King<br />
<br />
Chadwick notes on page 128 that Griffith "made history fit his vision" rather than the other way around. How far is too far when stretching or recreating history to make a movie or "fitting a vision" like Griffith? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Cullen spends a good amount of time talking about race and class in ''Gone With the Wind.'' He also mentions how Marshall wrote primarily for a white, southern audience. How much of an impact did this have on her work? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
These articles are great reading companions for our recent movie assignment. Chadwick rightly discusses in his article how film presents radically distorted views of the Civil War, perhaps more so than any other gateway of popular memory. Putting ''Birth of a Nation'' aside, which films do you consider to present the most distorted views of the Civil War?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Is the Lost Cause or is the North more glorified in Civil War cinema?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Cullen describes the South as having been tainted for generations by Uncle Tom's Cabin. Most of what we have read for this class has implied the opposite; the image most of the country had of the antebellum South was rather romantic. Did GWTW really change people's ideas about the South? Or was it a reflection of them? -GStan.<br />
<br />
How did the film Shenandoah shifts movies made about the Civil War? Civil War movies before Shenandoah were primarily concerned with reconciliation and Lost cause themes, so why was there not many film concerning emancipationist themes?-Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_11_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 11 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-29T02:52:41Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>In Chadwick's article, he mentions that Griffith never truly understood the impact of ''Birth of a Nation.'' Do you believe that? -MK <br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article- he says that it yet to be seen whether or not the Lost Cause will be vanquished in modern-day films about the Civil War. Do you think that the Lost Cause rhetoric still plays a big role in people's memory and understanding of the Civil War or has it pretty much faded out? -MK<br />
<br />
<br />
On page 134, Bruce Chadwick explains how many critics and ministers believed Birth of a Nation to be a true story. Many argued for a mandatory showing of the movie in schools and parents should also take their children to see this film; "any parent who neglects this advice is committing an educational offense." How do you think making this a mandatory showing could influence children's and others' thoughts about the Civil War and reconstruction? Keep in mind how Margaret Mitchell was influenced by the movie. -avanness<br />
<br />
What problems or issues can arise when adapting a novel to a film? For example, Margaret Mitchell wrote her novel geared more towards a Southern white audience. Filmmakers thought this "confederate view" could interfere with the romance of the film so changes were made. The most prevalent being the subject of race. -avanness<br />
<br />
Chadwick says that many critics of "Birth of a Nation" argued that it completely (and obviously) ignored the real history of the war. He then goes on to say that this did not matter, because audiences were more concerned with the romantic portrayal of the war anyways. Why do you think audiences cared more about the romanticism? Why didn't they want or care about having more accurate information? - Angie<br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article, I found the difference between the portrayal of slaves in the lost cause films and anti-lost cause films incredible. I always assumed that the portrayal and perception of their role in the war had changed gradually, but it actually did not. In fact, in 1959, there was a film put out about loyal slaves and in 1965 there was a film about anti-slave southerners. The change seems to be abrupt and dramatic. Gallagher attributes it to the Civil Rights movement and Act of 1964, which makes complete sense. - Angie<br />
<br />
How did Griffith combine the numerous Civil War memory themes into one movie? What radical steps did Birth of a Nation take that separated the film from other films that were produced during the early 20th century?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-03-17T03:30:54Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
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<div>Did the Civil War bring the US economy into the industrial age or did the war slow down economic growth and development? This question has proven to be quite controversial over the last 150 years, and historians like other Civil War topics have not comer to a consensus about this question. Overall what was the Civil Wars' impact on the US economy?- Nick J.<br />
<br />
Faust states that "nearly a century has failed to resolve debate about the war's impact on women, but the centrality of this question to the concerns of contemporary feminism suggest that it is unlikely to be abandoned as a framework for viewing women's experiences between 1861 and 1865." (239). What types historiography do you think will appear in the future surrounding women's roles during the Civil War? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
In the introduction, McPherson and Cooper point out that there are still gaps in the historiography and that some issues need to be further studied, such as the role of religion in the Union and Confederacy. Do you think that historians will be successful in addressing these gaps? Why do you think that these topics have not had sufficient treatment? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
I think the social history aspect of the Civil War is interesting. McPherson and Cooper mention it in the introduction. This focus of the civil war includes gender, race, and class. Why do you think these aspects of the war take so long to get discussed especially by historians and authors? -avanness<br />
<br />
Gary Gallagher discusses the Northern military strategy in his piece. He says that a historian named T. Harry Williams believes that the Northern generals were not "that great" because they were into more of the maneuvering rather than fighting. Do you agree? -avanness<br />
<br />
The Roark essay made it pretty clear that the main downfall of the confederacy was the lack of a cohesive economic plan. Was it inevitable that the confederacy would fail because of their reliance on States rights over a strong centralized government? R. King<br />
<br />
I was struck by the lack of historiography on the trials and tribulations of lower class women, even though they made up the majority of those affected by the war. Does the difficulty lie in illiteracy; that these women didn’t or couldn’t write about their troubles? Or is it simply that the upper classes are more interesting to write about? R. King<br />
<br />
Why do academics use words like “tendentious”? R.King<br />
<br />
In Reid Mitchell's article "Not the General" But the General: The studying of Civil War Generals and on the first page Reid states that despite the status the status of Lee, Grant and Sherman among American generals, the war was not won by strategic brilliance. Both sides displayed roughly the same level of competence, and both thought about the matter militarily in the same way. What do you think of Mitchell's statement? Did the North and the South think about military matters the same way as Mitchell suggests or did the think about militarily affairs differently? Personally I think they thought about it differently and I believe that this is an important topic to bring up in class on Thursday. Nick J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-03-16T23:52:55Z<p>Njesionk: New page: Did the Civil War bring the US economy into the industrial age or did the war slow down economic growth and development? This question has proven to be quite controversial over the last 15...</p>
<hr />
<div>Did the Civil War bring the US economy into the industrial age or did the war slow down economic growth and development? This question has proven to be quite controversial over the last 150 years, and historians like other Civil War topics have not comer to a consensus about this question. Overall what was the Civil Wars' impact on the US economy?- Nick J.</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-15T01:14:30Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>In the Shackel piece, the author talks about African Americans experiences during the war and after. In particular, he mentions a variety of ways in which African Americans began to be recognized especially in the mid-twentieth century. What were some of these ways? How do you think this group of people would have responded to finally being included in the "national consciousness?" -Avanness<br />
<br />
A lot of the readings we have read have talked about how the memorial organizations, monuments, ceremonies etc. have at least partially been created because of the desire to transmit stories to younger generations. Do you think this remains one of the main factors as to why individuals or groups of people wish to commemorate or memorialize events or figures in history today? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Le Anne White concludes her essay with a pondering about what memorialization will look like the further we get from the Civil War. Do you think we as a people will ever put enough distance between us and the Civil War to look at it with a less jaundiced eye? -R.King<br />
<br />
To me the Ayers piece was the most interesting of the three readings. Do you think that a new revisionist look at the Civil War would "place more distance between nineteenth century Americans and ourselves,"? -R.King<br />
<br />
I was a bit disturbed by Shackel's statement that the National Park Service's "interpretation" of the Manassas battle field purposely eliminates any discussion of the causes of the Civil War. Don't you think they should embrace that aspect of the history and at the very least put the battle fought there in some kind of context? -R.King<br />
<br />
In Memory in Black and White Shackle discusses how the construction of public memory has changed since World War II. Author Michael Kammen states that since World War II, commemoration activities in the United States have became increasingly decentralized as the federal government has played a decreasing role in the construction of public memory (Shakle pg. 13). The lack of commemoration activities has played a significant role in the construction of public memory, but what other factors contribute to public memory? Also is the decentralization of commemoration a depoliticized process, or a highly politicized process? -Nick. J<br />
<br />
I also really liked the Ayers article, and reading it made me realize how deeply ingrained the Ken Burns Civil War narrative is in me. Do you think that that narrative is still serving a purpose in American memory? What purpose is that and what would change that narrative's usefulness in defining us as a nation? --Erin B<br />
<br />
Ayers brought up several important points regarding the way narratives on the Civil War have transformed. Is there one or more interpretations that hold more weight than the others? Also, he notes that "slavery and freedom remain the keys to understanding the war- but they are the place to begin our questions, not end them." Do you agree with this assessment? -ABratchie <br />
<br />
Do you think that the partnership between African Americans and white women at the University of Mississippi to change and "take aim at the very aspects of Southern culture that the UDC had labored so diligently to promote" was an isolated case (226)? How much of the Civil War memory do you think really prompted this type of action on the part of the students? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Why was the movement of the Confederate rock to another state building not contested by the students from th University of Missouri who had fought for its removal from campus? Does this say something about the community that the school had created or the community the students expected from the school (229ish Leeann Whites)? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Why did revisionism which was so powerful in the first half of the twentieth century fade away as Ayers says in the second half of the 20th century. Were revisionists simply sentimentalists? -Nick J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-14T22:53:07Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>In the Shackel piece, the author talks about African Americans experiences during the war and after. In particular, he mentions a variety of ways in which African Americans began to be recognized especially in the mid-twentieth century. What were some of these ways? How do you think this group of people would have responded to finally being included in the "national consciousness?" -Avanness<br />
<br />
A lot of the readings we have read have talked about how the memorial organizations, monuments, ceremonies etc. have at least partially been created because of the desire to transmit stories to younger generations. Do you think this remains one of the main factors as to why individuals or groups of people wish to commemorate or memorialize events or figures in history today? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Le Anne White concludes her essay with a pondering about what memorialization will look like the further we get from the Civil War. Do you think we as a people will ever put enough distance between us and the Civil War to look at it with a less jaundiced eye? -R.King<br />
<br />
To me the Ayers piece was the most interesting of the three readings. Do you think that a new revisionist look at the Civil War would "place more distance between nineteenth century Americans and ourselves,"? -R.King<br />
<br />
I was a bit disturbed by Shackel's statement that the National Park Service's "interpretation" of the Manassas battle field purposely eliminates any discussion of the causes of the Civil War. Don't you think they should embrace that aspect of the history and at the very least put the battle fought there in some kind of context? -R.King<br />
<br />
In Memory in Black and White Shackle discusses how the construction of public memory has changed since World War II. Author Michael Kammen states that since World War II, commemoration activities in the United States have became increasingly decentralized as the federal government has played a decreasing role in the construction of public memory (Shakle pg. 13). The lack of commemoration activities has played a significant role in the construction of public memory, but what other factors contribute to public memory? Also is the decentralization of commemoration a depoliticized process, or a highly politicized process? -Nick. J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-03-10T05:27:14Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>Coski describes numerous compromises in the South regarding the Confederate flag. With a symbol as emotionally charged as the Confederate flag, is compromise acceptable?- aaskins<br />
<br />
If public display of the confederate flag was to be banned, which of the following two reactions would be most likely: <br />
1. support for the flag would surge and incite greater conflict OR<br />
2. people would move past the issue, and learn to forget.<br />
-aaskins<br />
<br />
I thought it was interesting how people began to cite different hypocrisies in school systems that tried to ban the Confederate Flag. Do you think school systems were right in trying to ban the flag or do you think it just caused more problems? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
We talked about this a little on Tuesday, but Coski discusses the meaning of the Confederate Flag overseas in Europe. He states "the Europeans have grasped something that Americans take for granted: the Confederate flag is fundamentally an American Flag" (293). Do you agree with his statement in that American's take the Confederate Flag for granted as an American Flag? Do you think it is an American Flag? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
The Battle Flag has been compared to many other symbols that have been perceived as intolerant, like the swastika or even symbols of black power. Are some of these more apt than others? Is there an absolute line that can be drawn between what it is comporable to and what it isn't, one rooted in history? Or is it all relative? -GStan.<br />
<br />
I thought the controversy that involved the college student named Kerrigan who hung her confederate flag out her window on campus was interesting. If she told people she did this because it reminded her of home and her heritage why did people continue to be defensive about the matter and insist her actions were inappropriate? -avanness<br />
<br />
Do defenders of the Confederate flag have a right to be able to fly the flag in public because of the first amendment? Are their rights being violated? -avanness<br />
<br />
Avanness, I think that since people are protected under the first amendment in the burning of the American Flag, that defenders of the Confederate Flag are equally protected in their flying of the flag in public. -MK<br />
<br />
I left the section about tolerance (or lack there of) for the battle flag in public schools feeling rather confused. I think that the courts generally did the right thing in protecting the rights of the minority against intimidation but there are some cases, like the middle school kid who got suspended for drawing a Confederate flag in his notebook, that seem a little ridiculous. It seems like some schools are censoring before there was really even an issue, because they think the flag is inherently racist. Which brings us to the debate of whether or not the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism or a heritage symbol… or both? I’m really not sure what I think. - Angie<br />
<br />
I found it really interesting that groups like the SCV and UDC tried to distance themselves quite far from the Klan. When they were campaigning to keep the battle flag at the Capitol in Alabama, it was their worst fear that the Klan would start campaigning for it as well because that would just prove to everyone that it really was a racial symbol. They were both campaigning for the flag to stay but for completely different reasons. - Angie<br />
<br />
Do you think the prominence of the flying of the Confederate Flag in response to the Civil Rights Movement added more the rebel image or the racist image of the Confederate Flag? -MK<br />
<br />
On page 235 Coski makes the statement"the University of Mississippi succeeded in limiting individual free speech with regulations couched in the language of safety and comfort." I understood the "safety and comfort" issue as the Universities ban of flags on sticks (229). How is this a " limiting" of first amendment rights? R.King<br />
<br />
Should we, as Coski suggests, "make peace" with the flag instead of trying to ban it? R. King<br />
<br />
As many others have already stated, it's interesting to note the hypocrisies that many of the students complained about when their schools attempted to ban confederate symbols. How does one distinguish between which symbols are acceptable and which ones are not. I'm not entirely sure it's possible without being criticized. However, I thought the identification of symbols that caused dangerous situations was a good attempted. - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
Aside from the discussion of the confederate symbols in a college setting, how much do you think the younger kids were being spurred on by their parents political and social feelings? I have a feeling it was...a lot. - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
How was the Confederate flag symbolized when the Supreme Court ordered the immediate and effective integration of schools in 1969? Was the flag an obstacle to integration?- Nick<br />
<br />
In 1987 the NAACP embarked on their campaign to end official use of the flag upon capitol buildings of four former Confederate states (South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia). On page 268 Coski states that the controversies in these turned to the same basic questions that have been brought up throughout the book. Is the Confederate flag an appropriate symbol to represent the people of a modern state? What is the proper way to determine this?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-03-10T05:09:30Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>Coski describes numerous compromises in the South regarding the Confederate flag. With a symbol as emotionally charged as the Confederate flag, is compromise acceptable?- aaskins<br />
<br />
If public display of the confederate flag was to be banned, which of the following two reactions would be most likely: <br />
1. support for the flag would surge and incite greater conflict OR<br />
2. people would move past the issue, and learn to forget.<br />
-aaskins<br />
<br />
I thought it was interesting how people began to cite different hypocrisies in school systems that tried to ban the Confederate Flag. Do you think school systems were right in trying to ban the flag or do you think it just caused more problems? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
We talked about this a little on Tuesday, but Coski discusses the meaning of the Confederate Flag overseas in Europe. He states "the Europeans have grasped something that Americans take for granted: the Confederate flag is fundamentally an American Flag" (293). Do you agree with his statement in that American's take the Confederate Flag for granted as an American Flag? Do you think it is an American Flag? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
The Battle Flag has been compared to many other symbols that have been perceived as intolerant, like the swastika or even symbols of black power. Are some of these more apt than others? Is there an absolute line that can be drawn between what it is comporable to and what it isn't, one rooted in history? Or is it all relative? -GStan.<br />
<br />
I thought the controversy that involved the college student named Kerrigan who hung her confederate flag out her window on campus was interesting. If she told people she did this because it reminded her of home and her heritage why did people continue to be defensive about the matter and insist her actions were inappropriate? -avanness<br />
<br />
Do defenders of the Confederate flag have a right to be able to fly the flag in public because of the first amendment? Are their rights being violated? -avanness<br />
<br />
Avanness, I think that since people are protected under the first amendment in the burning of the American Flag, that defenders of the Confederate Flag are equally protected in their flying of the flag in public. -MK<br />
<br />
I left the section about tolerance (or lack there of) for the battle flag in public schools feeling rather confused. I think that the courts generally did the right thing in protecting the rights of the minority against intimidation but there are some cases, like the middle school kid who got suspended for drawing a Confederate flag in his notebook, that seem a little ridiculous. It seems like some schools are censoring before there was really even an issue, because they think the flag is inherently racist. Which brings us to the debate of whether or not the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism or a heritage symbol… or both? I’m really not sure what I think. - Angie<br />
<br />
I found it really interesting that groups like the SCV and UDC tried to distance themselves quite far from the Klan. When they were campaigning to keep the battle flag at the Capitol in Alabama, it was their worst fear that the Klan would start campaigning for it as well because that would just prove to everyone that it really was a racial symbol. They were both campaigning for the flag to stay but for completely different reasons. - Angie<br />
<br />
Do you think the prominence of the flying of the Confederate Flag in response to the Civil Rights Movement added more the rebel image or the racist image of the Confederate Flag? -MK<br />
<br />
On page 235 Coski makes the statement"the University of Mississippi succeeded in limiting individual free speech with regulations couched in the language of safety and comfort." I understood the "safety and comfort" issue as the Universities ban of flags on sticks (229). How is this a " limiting" of first amendment rights? R.King<br />
<br />
Should we, as Coski suggests, "make peace" with the flag instead of trying to ban it? R. King<br />
<br />
As many others have already stated, it's interesting to note the hypocrisies that many of the students complained about when their schools attempted to ban confederate symbols. How does one distinguish between which symbols are acceptable and which ones are not. I'm not entirely sure it's possible without being criticized. However, I thought the identification of symbols that caused dangerous situations was a good attempted. - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
Aside from the discussion of the confederate symbols in a college setting, how much do you think the younger kids were being spurred on by their parents political and social feelings? I have a feeling it was...a lot. - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
How was the Confederate flag symbolized when the Supreme Court ordered the immediate and effective integration of schools in 1969? Was the flag an obstacle to integration?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-08T04:26:49Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>On page 123 Coski states that in 1948, presumably following the surge in flag-bearing during the Dixiecrat campaign while anticipating the flag fad in the early 50s, "the UDC sought to prevent political groups from appropriating the flag and to prevent misuse of the flag by souvenir manufacturers and overzealous youths." What do you think would have constituted "misuse" in the eyes of the UDC and what meaning were they trying to protect? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Some flag defenders resented the conflation of the Confederate battle flag with racism as it was taken up by segregationist groups during the era of Civil Rights and massive resistance. What was the tradition that they sought protect by keeping certain southern attitudes separate from an historical symbol? Even when divorced of the more recent violent implications of the Confederate flag (like use by the KKK), Senator Mosely-Braun points on page 197 that the historical importance of the flag is equally as capable of serving as a painful reminder of ongoing racial inequality and prejudice, so how do you think heritage organizations and flag 'purists' would have responded to that? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Do you think Coski has succeeded in presenting the subject in and objective manner? R. King<br />
<br />
Did the flag become "the flag" because of it's association with the Army of Northern Virginia and there for R. E. Lee? -R.King<br />
<br />
Why has the flag become the most contentious symbol of the American Civil War and in particular to the Confederacy? - R.King<br />
<br />
How much of the "flag fad" of the late 40's, early 50's do you think contributed to the the way the flag is marketed and commercialized today? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On page 145 Coski states, "The collection and interpretation of evidence for the Confederate flag's racist use present significant challenges. They depend upon eyewitnesses or photographers troubling to notice and document the flag's presence as a symbol of segregation or white supremacy." Do you think proponents of Civil Rights were able to successfully argue that the Confederate Flag embodied racism despite the idea by many that the flag represented states rights, while keeping in mind the difficulty in proving its racist links with evidence? -ABratchie <br />
<br />
Discussion topics for tomorrow. The Confederate battle flag as a military implement. Why was the Confederate battle flag created? What did the battle flag mean to soldiers that fought in the war? The different types of battle flags that were used. Logan T<br />
<br />
How was the Confederate battle flag used during reconstruction? Why was the Confederate battle flag used by American military units in other wars? What was the flag fad in the 1950s about? How have racist groups used the Confederate battle flag? Logan T<br />
<br />
Do you think that the commercialization of the Confederate Flag (being printed on bikinis and beach towels) lead to the flag representing more of a rebel image than a symbol of Southern heritage? -MK <br />
<br />
Coski's objective with this book is to make both defenders and opponents of the Confederate Flag to in a sense try to logically understand one another. Do you think that this is a realistic goal, when there is still so much debate over the causes of the Civil War? -MK<br />
<br />
Since the end of the war until today, the flag's popular usage has been suppressed again and again. Have Northern distaste for the flag and occaisional laws banning its use encouraged its supporters? Does it hurt more to let it fly or to open oneself to charges of "cultural genocide"? What would be a practical middle ground? -GStan.<br />
<br />
<br />
Why was the symbol of the Confederate flag inflated only ''after'' the Civil War? Did the flag not hold as much meaning or importance to those soldiers or civilians during the war as it did to those who began participating in the memorialzation of the war beginning around the 1870s? -avanness<br />
<br />
What participation did the flag have in memorialization events after the war including Memorial Day and establishing Confederate cemeteries and monuments? -avanness<br />
<br />
Did the official use of the Confederate flag violate U.S. Army regulations governing the display of flags? Coski writes on page 114 that the new Army regulations concerning flags allowed enough latitude for units to employ Confederate flags for historical or decorative purposes. Do you agree with soldiers being able to bring Confederate flags while they are serving their country in combat?- Nick<br />
<br />
How did Civil Rights leaders of the 1950s and the 1960s perceive the Confederate battle flag? How did this differ from Northern perspectives of the Confederate flag?-Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-08T03:12:01Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>On page 123 Coski states that in 1948, presumably following the surge in flag-bearing during the Dixiecrat campaign while anticipating the flag fad in the early 50s, "the UDC sought to prevent political groups from appropriating the flag and to prevent misuse of the flag by souvenir manufacturers and overzealous youths." What do you think would have constituted "misuse" in the eyes of the UDC and what meaning were they trying to protect? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Some flag defenders resented the conflation of the Confederate battle flag with racism as it was taken up by segregationist groups during the era of Civil Rights and massive resistance. What was the tradition that they sought protect by keeping certain southern attitudes separate from an historical symbol? Even when divorced of the more recent violent implications of the Confederate flag (like use by the KKK), Senator Mosely-Braun points on page 197 that the historical importance of the flag is equally as capable of serving as a painful reminder of ongoing racial inequality and prejudice, so how do you think heritage organizations and flag 'purists' would have responded to that? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Do you think Coski has succeeded in presenting the subject in and objective manner? R. King<br />
<br />
Did the flag become "the flag" because of it's association with the Army of Northern Virginia and there for R. E. Lee? -R.King<br />
<br />
Why has the flag become the most contentious symbol of the American Civil War and in particular to the Confederacy? - R.King<br />
<br />
How much of the "flag fad" of the late 40's, early 50's do you think contributed to the the way the flag is marketed and commercialized today? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On page 145 Coski states, "The collection and interpretation of evidence for the Confederate flag's racist use present significant challenges. They depend upon eyewitnesses or photographers troubling to notice and document the flag's presence as a symbol of segregation or white supremacy." Do you think proponents of Civil Rights were able to successfully argue that the Confederate Flag embodied racism despite the idea by many that the flag represented states rights, while keeping in mind the difficulty in proving its racist links with evidence? -ABratchie <br />
<br />
Discussion topics for tomorrow. The Confederate battle flag as a military implement. Why was the Confederate battle flag created? What did the battle flag mean to soldiers that fought in the war? The different types of battle flags that were used. Logan T<br />
<br />
How was the Confederate battle flag used during reconstruction? Why was the Confederate battle flag used by American military units in other wars? What was the flag fad in the 1950s about? How have racist groups used the Confederate battle flag? Logan T<br />
<br />
Do you think that the commercialization of the Confederate Flag (being printed on bikinis and beach towels) lead to the flag representing more of a rebel image than a symbol of Southern heritage? -MK <br />
<br />
Coski's objective with this book is to make both defenders and opponents of the Confederate Flag to in a sense try to logically understand one another. Do you think that this is a realistic goal, when there is still so much debate over the causes of the Civil War? -MK<br />
<br />
Since the end of the war until today, the flag's popular usage has been suppressed again and again. Have Northern distaste for the flag and occaisional laws banning its use encouraged its supporters? Does it hurt more to let it fly or to open oneself to charges of "cultural genocide"? What would be a practical middle ground? -GStan.<br />
<br />
<br />
Why was the symbol of the Confederate flag inflated only ''after'' the Civil War? Did the flag not hold as much meaning or importance to those soldiers or civilians during the war as it did to those who began participating in the memorialzation of the war beginning around the 1870s? -avanness<br />
<br />
What participation did the flag have in memorialization events after the war including Memorial Day and establishing Confederate cemeteries and monuments? -avanness<br />
<br />
Did the official use of the Confederate flag violate U.S. Army regulations governing the display of flags? Coski writes on page 114 that the new Army regulations concerning flags allowed enough latitude for units to employ Confederate flags for historical or decorative purposes. Do you agree with soldiers being able to bring Confederate flags while they are serving their country in combat?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_7_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 7 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-02-24T04:28:09Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>I thought the conversation Ferguson had with the man, Robert, at the conference was interesting. In particular, "Southerners accepted Jim Crow only with the greatest reluctance, he told me. Segregation was a response to demands from the Northern businessmen following the Civil War," was an idea I have not heard of. I wonder, do you think this is a more modern argument on the side of the South to defend their reasons as to why they created such strict segregation laws or was this what "Lost Causers" and Southerners would have claimed even in the late 1800s? -avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
How do you think the smaller Lincoln memorial in Richmond and the grand statue of Abe Lincoln in Washington, D.C. differ in their effectiveness and meaning for people? What was the purpose behind creating one so large and one that sat among the people? -avanness<br />
<br />
On page 65 Ferguson discusses how William Petersen wrote ''''Lincoln-Douglas: The Weather as Destiny'''', which tied Lincoln's behavior to the weather. I found this to be very interesting and was wondering what do you think Lincoln's mood/ behavior would be in certain kinds of weather? Also does weather actually have any effect on our mood? -Nick J<br />
<br />
This book immediately, and throughout, reminded me of Confederates in the Attic. I know it has not been assigned yet, but for those of us who have already ready it, I think it bears mentioning that the authors write very similarly. They even describe how they were obsessed with the Civil War when they were little (different sides though!) and how it faded away when they were teens. Furthermore, they both spend their book on a quest to find out the real meaning behind America’s obsession with these Civil War figures. I feel like they are practically the same book, just dealing with different sides. – Angie<br />
<br />
I found it interesting, but not surprising, that it was elites who wanted to put the statue of Abe and Tad in Richmond. They were even southern elites who defended the honor of the Confederacy, like the Dabney fellow. Why does this socioeconomic class tend to be more reconciliationist than others? They were ones who essentially owned the South during the Civil War anyways. Why aren’t they as offended by a Northern statue in the Confederate capitol? – Angie<br />
<br />
I was surprised that Ferguson opened with the controversy over the Lincoln statue. I was expecting a brief history or a run down of his presidency to get the readers aquainted with the topic especially since this isn't an academic work. Does this reinforce the idea the everyone is expected to know who Lincoln was and what he did? And do you think this was the best way to jump into the story? I agree with Angie too, this book really reminds me of "Confederates in the Attic". - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
We talked a little bit about this on Tuesday, but I still find it striking that people molded Lincoln in whatever they saw fit to their needs and how there are so many differing views on who Lincoln was and what he stood for. Why do you think Lincoln's image (opposed to other historical figures and Civil War figures) was (and still is) molded and shaped into so many different meanings? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Throughout the work, Ferguson highlights how Lincoln is now a commodity in a sense (museums, trails, etc). For example, Ferguson quotes Antigoni, "Put Lincoln's name on it, and you can sell anything." (198) Do you think the comodification of Lincoln's image and memory is important? Does this affect the way he is viewed in relation to the Civil War, and what is lost in this comodification of Lincoln? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Ferguson's assessment of Lincoln being identified as "Mussolini, on the one hand, Mr. Rogers on the other," (39) struck me as sort of hilarious and true. The way in which Lincoln is presented to elementary school kids basically illustrates him as the ultimate goody-goody, albeit the goody-goody who freed the slaves. What about the classic narrative of Lincoln’s early or political life makes this the case? Based on this book's telling of Herndon's collection of memories of him, did it seem like he was destined to have this image projected on him by his acquaintances that mourned his death? -- Erin B<br />
<br />
Chapter 5, about collecting, was particularly interesting to me. How did Louise’s motivation for collecting differ from the Chief’s? What kinds of artifacts was Louise looking for and why? -- Erin B<br />
<br />
Why are people really passionate about collecting Lincoln artifacts? Why has the fascination and allure of Lincoln seemed to continue to increase since his death 146 years ago? Nick J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_7_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 7 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-02-24T02:20:41Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>I thought the conversation Ferguson had with the man, Robert, at the conference was interesting. In particular, "Southerners accepted Jim Crow only with the greatest reluctance, he told me. Segregation was a response to demands from the Northern businessmen following the Civil War," was an idea I have not heard of. I wonder, do you think this is a more modern argument on the side of the South to defend their reasons as to why they created such strict segregation laws or was this what "Lost Causers" and Southerners would have claimed even in the late 1800s? -avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
How do you think the smaller Lincoln memorial in Richmond and the grand statue of Abe Lincoln in Washington, D.C. differ in their effectiveness and meaning for people? What was the purpose behind creating one so large and one that sat among the people? -avanness<br />
<br />
On page 65 Ferguson discusses how William Petersen wrote ''''Lincoln-Douglas: The Weather as Destiny'''', which tied Lincoln's behavior to the weather. I found this to be very interesting and was wondering what do you think Lincoln's mood/ behavior would be in certain kinds of weather? Also does weather actually have any effect on our mood? -Nick J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_7_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 7 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-22T02:01:44Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>I think the way in which the author of the essay in Fahs and Waugh tries to explain the highly romanticized Lee by Jubal Early and Douglass Southall Freeman is interesting. The author basically says that the Lost Cause ideology has remained because most of its components are based on truths. This includes the number of Union soldiers that exceeded the amount of soldiers the Confederacy had. Do you think the Lost Cause is something that could eventually die out because of the fact that certain historians and scholars have exposed its myths or do you think it is too much a part of Southerner's memory and Civil War memory in general? -avanness <br />
<br />
Going off of Amy's question, do you think that the Lost Cause views of Lee that emerged in society should be taken as truths? Also, I found it interesting how some Northerners (both during and immediately after the war) seemed to like the interpretations of Lee that were favorable. What do you think accounted to this and who would have fit into this category (clearly not all Northerners had similar opinions). -ABratchie<br />
<br />
In "A Tree is Best Measured When It's Down," the author discusses the way in which FDR uses Lincoln to get through the Depression. How do you think he accomplishes this and do you think political leaders might still use Lincoln and his presidency to think about political matters today or was this only something that might have been beneficial during the 1930s because of its close proximity to the Civil War and the time of Lincoln's presidency? -avanness<br />
<br />
The piece "Shaping Public Memory of the Civil War" written by Gary W. Gallagher raises numerous important questions about the ways Confederate general Jubal A. Early and historian Douglass Freeman influenced the way Americans have understood the Confederacy and the Civil War. Why did Early and Freeman write about Lee so frequently? Also how did Early and Freeman shape the literature about the Confederacy and public understanding of Lee? -Nick J<br />
<br />
<br />
In the Cullen article, Sandburg is described as writing during the “golden age of Lincoln Culture.” (p.42) Earlier though, it discussed how portraits and anecdotal stories were being published as early as the 1880s. It also discusses how Lincoln was used by Roosevelt and others to help deal with the depression. But why do you think interest in Lincoln remained so strong for so long? How many biographies were really necessary for the country to get their fill of the Union President? - Angie<br />
<br />
<br />
Its interesting, especially in the case of Mercie’s Lee Monument, how controversial the distinction between “art” and “truth” could be. Of course a sculptor or artists of other materials would want to put their own artistic spin on their projects but the people commissioning the project wanted their hero to be portrayed their way. In the end, the people with the money won out, but I wonder how often an artist’s interpretation differed from what the commissioner wanted. - Angie<br />
<br />
During the Great Depression President Roosevelt talked about Lincoln quite frequently to the American public. Why did Roosevelt bring up Lincoln often during his speeches to the American public. Do you think this would be well received by the South?- Nick J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_7_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 7 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-21T23:06:02Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>I think the way in which the author of the essay in Fahs and Waugh tries to explain the highly romanticized Lee by Jubal Early and Douglass Southall Freeman is interesting. The author basically says that the Lost Cause ideology has remained because most of its components are based on truths. This includes the number of Union soldiers that exceeded the amount of soldiers the Confederacy had. Do you think the Lost Cause is something that could eventually die out because of the fact that certain historians and scholars have exposed its myths or do you think it is too much a part of Southerner's memory and Civil War memory in general? -avanness <br />
<br />
Going off of Amy's question, do you think that the Lost Cause views of Lee that emerged in society should be taken as truths? Also, I found it interesting how some Northerners (both during and immediately after the war) seemed to like the interpretations of Lee that were favorable. What do you think accounted to this and who would have fit into this category (clearly not all Northerners had similar opinions). -ABratchie<br />
<br />
In "A Tree is Best Measured When It's Down," the author discusses the way in which FDR uses Lincoln to get through the Depression. How do you think he accomplishes this and do you think political leaders might still use Lincoln and his presidency to think about political matters today or was this only something that might have been beneficial during the 1930s because of its close proximity to the Civil War and the time of Lincoln's presidency? -avanness<br />
<br />
The piece "Shaping Public Memory of the Civil War" written by Gary W. Gallagher raises numerous important questions about the ways Confederate general Jubal A. Early and historian Douglass Freeman influenced the way Americans have understood the Confederacy and the Civil War. Why did Early and Freeman write about Lee so frequently? Also how did Early and Freeman shape the literature about the Confederacy and public understanding of Lee? -Nick J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 6 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-02-17T05:29:08Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>In Woodrow Wilson’s speech, he repeatedly talks about how the 50 years since the Civil War have been “peaceful” and have been “without class or difference of kind or race or origin.” It seems like he is talking about a completely different country considering violence against African Americans was at its height in the 50 years after the war. Its not surprising, as Blight points out, that African Americans were opposed to reunions such as these. I wouldn’t want to listen to an idealized memory that was fundamentally false either. - Angie<br />
<br />
<br />
I found it interesting that while the general theme in the North after the war was to move on, McKinley’s campaign actually brought up the war in order to win. They compared the masses that were marching for federal aid to those rebellious Southerners of the Civil War. Basically, if someone was disturbing the peacefulness of union, then they were akin to a Confederate. I guess this shows that the North really hadn’t forgotten the war and were willing to use it for their convenience. - Angie<br />
<br />
Kelly begins his article stating that the GOP's slogan for the 1896 election was "Vote as you shot." But after reading the rest of the article, it did not seem to me that this was an appropriate quote to describe the issues at play during this election. If the true concern was to avoid class conflict and sectionalism as the Republican party claims Bryan was going to cause, then why would they say to vote as shot?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
Topic for discussion: the role of blacks in raising historical awareness. How did people such as Grimké ad Du Bois use memorial and patriotic rhetoric to raise the issue of emancipation memory? Is their own patriotic discourse a distortion of memory?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
Why would President Wilson say "In their presence it were an impertinence to discourse upon how the battle went, how it ended, what it signified!"? Wasn't it the purpose of the reunion to "to talk over the events of the battle here as man to man" as stated by Governor Mann? -- R.King<br />
<br />
In 1896 the GOP platform for the first time since the end of the Civil War omitted any demand that the federal government use it's military power to guarantee black suffrage in the South. (Fahs,Waugh 181) The New York Times approved of this move stating that it indicated McKinley's "sagacity...appealing to a common patriotism to protect the Nation's honor." Were the Jim Crow laws honorable? --R.King<br />
<br />
Earlier in our reading about the Shaw memorial a question was raised about whether the memorial degraded the African/American soldier by moving him to the background, in today's reading we heard from W.E.B DuBois regarding the Shaw memorial, "How extraordinary, and what a tribute to ignorance and religious hypocrisy, is the fact that in the minds of the people...only murder makes men. The slave pleaded; he was humble; he protected the women of the South, and the world ignored him. The slave killed white men; and behold, he was a man!"Does this quote prove that the memorial was in fact a monument to the African/American fighting man? --R.King<br />
<br />
I brought this question up in an earlier wiki post but it seems extremely relevant now, especially regarding Angie's comment about the violence towards African Americans during the 50 years after the Civil War. Do you think that the white supremacy ideology was the basis of the reconciliation of the Union? -MK<br />
<br />
Fahs and Waugh spend a great deal of time talking about the impact and influence veterans had on the election. Why do you think that is not so much the case today? -MK<br />
<br />
How did veteran's groups become so influential in the politics of the late 19th century? Why did people like Dani Sickles and Franz Sigel find success in their campaigns against Bryan? Was it simply their status as generals, or were other factors at play?- DRadtke<br />
<br />
What do the nominations of Bryan and McKinley tell us about the state of the memory of the Civil War in the mid-1890's?- DR<br />
<br />
The Patriotic Heroes' Battalion who were a group of Civil War veterans campaigned heavily for McKinley, and brought with them several important messages relating back to Civil War memory. The most important of the message being 1896 is as vitally important to our country as 1861. What do you think the veterans meant by this statement? Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 6 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-15T02:27:19Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>On page 229, Blight discusses Joel Chandler Harris's story "The Comedy of War" he describes an impending battle on Squire Farnborogh's farm. Apparently the Squire has a son fighting in each army. Although the story is fiction is there truth to the fact that brother faced brother, and how common place was this? --R. King<br />
<br />
Blight seems to be saying that the Underground Railroad is a myth, is this true? -- R. King<br />
<br />
We had discussed to a limited extent in class the ways in which classical ideals played into a creation of the memory of the Confederacy. DuBois seems to strike at the heart of this when he says, "we seek in vain the Teutonic deification of Self, and Roman brute force." Why else would he feel it necessary to base his speech around the glories of the Teutonic or the Roman Empires, unless he saw the Lost Cause becoming institutionalized?- DRadtke<br />
mell sought<br />
DuBois argues that the nation that Jefferson Davis represented was getting in the way of civilization of the United States. How might Southern Lost Causers counter this argument? -MK<br />
<br />
The rhetoric that Frederick Douglass uses in his Decoration Day speech is similar to the rhetoric of the Lost Cause- especially when speaking about how the future generations would "study the deeds of fathers.." Are their motivations similar? -MK<br />
<br />
On page 214, Blight discusses that the Lost Cause was born at Appomattox in the dignified manner of Robert E. Lee's surrender and in his attribution of defeat to "superior numbers of resources," surely the spirit of reunion was, in part, born there as well. Do you agree with this statement that the Lost cause was created when the Civil War ended due to Grant's lenient terms to Robert E. Lee? Nick<br />
<br />
Alexander Crummell and Fredrick Douglass had differing interpretations concerning the remembrance of slavery and emancipation. Both Douglass and Crummel sought racial uplight, but one would take the risk of sustaining a sense of historic grievance against America as the means of making the nation fulfill its promises. For example Crummell sought to redeem Africa, and to inspire moral values in the freedpeople by the example of an elite black leadership while Douglass embraced the same values but sought to redeem the civil and political rights established by the verdicts of Fort Wagner and Appomattox. Which view became the chief perspective of African American remembrance? Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 6 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-15T01:49:04Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>On page 229, Blight discusses Joel Chandler Harris's story "The Comedy of War" he describes an impending battle on Squire Farnborogh's farm. Apparently the Squire has a son fighting in each army. Although the story is fiction is there truth to the fact that brother faced brother, and how common place was this? --R. King<br />
<br />
Blight seems to be saying that the Underground Railroad is a myth, is this true? -- R. King<br />
<br />
We had discussed to a limited extent in class the ways in which classical ideals played into a creation of the memory of the Confederacy. DuBois seems to strike at the heart of this when he says, "we seek in vain the Teutonic deification of Self, and Roman brute force." Why else would he feel it necessary to base his speech around the glories of the Teutonic or the Roman Empires, unless he saw the Lost Cause becoming institutionalized?- DRadtke<br />
<br />
DuBois argues that the nation that Jefferson Davis represented was getting in the way of civilization of the United States. How might Southern Lost Causers counter this argument? -MK<br />
<br />
The rhetoric that Frederick Douglass uses in his Decoration Day speech is similar to the rhetoric of the Lost Cause- especially when speaking about how the future generations would "study the deeds of fathers.." Are their motivations similar? -MK<br />
<br />
On page 214, Blight discusses that the Lost Cause was born at Appomattox in the dignified manner of Robert E. Lee's surrender and in his attribution of defeat to "superior numbers of resources," surely the spirit of reunion was, in part, born there as well. Do you agree with this statement that the Lost cause was created when the Civil War ended due to Grant's lenient terms to Robert E. Lee? Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_4_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 4 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-02-03T04:59:44Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>The memories of John Brown and Heyward Shepherd have been co-opted by different groups over the years, serving purposes that helped promote those different ideals according to the social climate of the times. All in all, though, it seems that a large part of these ideals haven’t changed as much as one might think. In particular, I was extremely surprised to hear that the UDC would still embrace the myths of the faithful slave and mammy as recently as the 1990s. How would these interpretations of an outlawed society still serve these groups 150 years later? –Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
Do you think a symbol such as the John Brown Fort has a rightful place among the memorialization of the Civil War? Do you think that since white people had thier own monuments African Americans were entitled to also have something that could be viewed as a "symbol of their abolitionist struggle?" (pg. 65) -Avanness<br />
<br />
How do you think ex African American Union soldiers, newly freed black people, and black people in general during the late 1800s felt about the Shaw Memorial? Especially since it was supposed to be honoring a group of black soldiers yet was named only after their white leader and hardly even featured the black soldiers? Why do you think people didn't question it sooner? Do you think they were happy just to be included at all? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Is it the location or the building that is revered by visitors? The John Brown Fort was dismantled and rebuilt in several different places. Each time bricks would be stolen by scavengers so that the Fort is now made up of mostly new bricks rather than the ones in the fort at the time of John Brown’s raid. I feel as if the specialness is kind of ruined if the historic building is simply a reproduction or even moved to a different location. –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
The Heyward Shepherd memorial became a symbol of the Lost Cause and the embodiment of the former southern class system, ie. slaves subordinate to the Southern whites. Why do you think groups like the UDC and SCV were motivated and persistent in commemorating/displaying a monument of this particular moment in Civil War history? How do you think confederate veterans would have felt about this monument? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
John Brown's Fort exchanged many hands during its movement from West Virginia, to Chicago and back to West Virginia. What role do you think this movement and reassembling of the fort did to the memory of the event? Also, the fort was symbolic for African Americans as a symbol of their struggle for freedom and equality. Do think this was lost at all during its various moves and rebuilding? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Some members of the African American committee who discussed updating the Shaw memorial were against the addition of the names of the individual members of the regiment, saying that their absence would serve as a "reminder of the racial prejudice that had characterized the late 19th century" (137), something that apparently was not suggested concerning the recently ongoing controversy surrounding the Shepherd memorial. Is there anything different about these two circumstances or monuments? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
The introduction of African American troops troops into the Civil War was influential in changing the tide of the war onto the Union possessing the advantage but despite this there is a lack of Civil War monuments dedicated to African Americans. Why were there so few Civil War monuments dedicated to African Americans erected?- Nick<br />
<br />
What did Shaw mean to northerners? Why would a memorial be built for him, and why would he be so celebrated even during a time when north and south were focused on rreconciliation instead of the war's moral cause, when any emancipationist motivation for the war was being downplayed? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Do you perceive John Brown to be a martyr or a traitor?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_4_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 4 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-02-03T03:43:07Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>The memories of John Brown and Heyward Shepherd have been co-opted by different groups over the years, serving purposes that helped promote those different ideals according to the social climate of the times. All in all, though, it seems that a large part of these ideals haven’t changed as much as one might think. In particular, I was extremely surprised to hear that the UDC would still embrace the myths of the faithful slave and mammy as recently as the 1990s. How would these interpretations of an outlawed society still serve these groups 150 years later? –Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
Do you think a symbol such as the John Brown Fort has a rightful place among the memorialization of the Civil War? Do you think that since white people had thier own monuments African Americans were entitled to also have something that could be viewed as a "symbol of their abolitionist struggle?" (pg. 65) -Avanness<br />
<br />
How do you think ex African American Union soldiers, newly freed black people, and black people in general during the late 1800s felt about the Shaw Memorial? Especially since it was supposed to be honoring a group of black soldiers yet was named only after their white leader and hardly even featured the black soldiers? Why do you think people didn't question it sooner? Do you think they were happy just to be included at all? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Is it the location or the building that is revered by visitors? The John Brown Fort was dismantled and rebuilt in several different places. Each time bricks would be stolen by scavengers so that the Fort is now made up of mostly new bricks rather than the ones in the fort at the time of John Brown’s raid. I feel as if the specialness is kind of ruined if the historic building is simply a reproduction or even moved to a different location. –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
The Heyward Shepherd memorial became a symbol of the Lost Cause and the embodiment of the former southern class system, ie. slaves subordinate to the Southern whites. Why do you think groups like the UDC and SCV were motivated and persistent in commemorating/displaying a monument of this particular moment in Civil War history? How do you think confederate veterans would have felt about this monument? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
John Brown's Fort exchanged many hands during its movement from West Virginia, to Chicago and back to West Virginia. What role do you think this movement and reassembling of the fort did to the memory of the event? Also, the fort was symbolic for African Americans as a symbol of their struggle for freedom and equality. Do think this was lost at all during its various moves and rebuilding? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Some members of the African American committee who discussed updating the Shaw memorial were against the addition of the names of the individual members of the regiment, saying that their absence would serve as a "reminder of the racial prejudice that had characterized the late 19th century" (137), something that apparently was not suggested concerning the recently ongoing controversy surrounding the Shepherd memorial. Is there anything different about these two circumstances or monuments? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
The introduction of African American troops troops into the Civil War was influential in changing the tide of the war onto the Union possessing the advantage but despite this there is a lack of Civil War monuments dedicated to African Americans. Why were there so few Civil War monuments dedicated to African Americans erected?- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_4_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 4 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-01T06:31:16Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>Although I'm hesitant to say that the women in Augusta gained power through the memorial ceremonies and rituals, it certainly seems true that they gained potency and presence. Were these women, and others around the former Confederacy, simply made symbols, or was this part of a greater process by which women gained political and social power? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
How did the "divorce" of the Confederate cause from the Confederate dead result in the new understanding of both? Did this assist in a new, Christianized understanding of the Confederate dead? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
Throughout the reading I noticed that there was a huge focus on domesticity and ex-Confederate soldiers regaining the role of protecting their dependents and trying to become heads of households again. The end of the reading even said that the Southern Confederate men even had their own victory because they were chivalrous and maintained these kinds of values throughout the war even when dealing with the Union and Northern women. I'd never really heard of this type of rhetoric after the war among the South and ex-Confederates. Did many people believe the South had some type of victory in the end and during reconstruction even outside of the memorial associations or was this specifically regarding the Ladies' Memorial Association, the Confederate Survivor's Association and others like it? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
I think it is interesting that even though a lot of memorial associations were started by women people, typically men, every so often had issues with women running organizations like this in the public sphere. Even Tillet, a professor, proclaimed that he liked that women were no longer helpless like before but he still did not want to see them involved in wage labor. Did many men continue to be unhappy about women and their work in these organizations because they set them outside the domestic sphere? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Was the role of women in the memorializing of the Confederate dead an empowering one? Or was it an affirmation of their role as a domestic caretaker in a time when there was a high degree of anxiety about the maintenence of pre-war social norms? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Although women seemed to play a large role in the memorializaion of the Confederate dead, they still tried to remain subordinate to men. And in some cases, they even allowed men to play a role in the organization itself (discussed on page 189). How do you think this affected the advancement of women in the postwar society and did this limit their public role? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
The Confederate Survivors Association tried to preserve their memory, and in doing so, their histories of the Civil War "were based on a selective remembering of wartime events" (213). How do you think this "selective remembering" affected the memory of the war in the South? Also, in their reconstruction of certain events, like Sherman's march, memories shifted to make the North seem less "manly." What role do these memories play in the history of the memory of the war? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I found the information on page 163 describing how the South reconciled about the Civil War very interesting. The author states that sectional reconciliation was based on the abandonment of the causes of the war and focused instead on the common sacrifices of the individual solider, what ever his political affiliation, what ever his cause. We have tought about this a lot in class how Civil War memory became more about remembering the sacrifices of the soldiers instead of what they fought off. Did this reconciliation bring about as the other says the death of the Confederate cause? -Nick<br />
<br />
White talks about the silence and denial of slavery as a cause of the war, is this the true "lost cause"? -- R. King<br />
<br />
How did the memorialization of the dead transition into the conservation of the southern identity? -- R. King<br />
<br />
Why is it "woman's privilege" to raise up Civil War monuments (as Evans was quoted as saying in his memorial day speech)? Why do men only lay the cornerstone for the monuments?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
Did anyone else find Evans' speech similar to Pericles' funerary oration in its description of women and their post-war roles?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
Is it odd or unexpected that women became the principal advocates for "memory preservation" in the south (as demonstrated in Augusta) through the formations of female memorial groups? - Aaskins<br />
<br />
Do you agree with Evans' assertion that southerners were forced to "divorce" themselves from the Confederate cause while still embracing the Confederate dead? Or would you take Blight's approach and argue that the image of the "noble dead" served as an outlet for the frustrations stemming from defeat? DRadtke<br />
<br />
Drew, I think I have to take Blight's side on this one. I really find it hard to believe that groups like the Klan would start up if people were able to accept that the Confederate cause was one of the past. I think we are still seeing people refusing to accept that fact, and the idea of the "noble dead" is very much alive and well. --Cash<br />
<br />
Do we see similar issues regarding the Fredericksburg City Cemetery arising shortly after the war? Was the expansion of the cemetery to include Confederate dead also an effort to "guarantee that their version of the story would outlast them and even their own families"? DRadtke<br />
<br />
No war the U.S. has taken part in since the Civil War has been as highly romanticized, or possibly even remotely romanticized, because of changing perspectives. Do you think it is because of these Memorial Day celebrations, especially the speeches that reach out to the people left behind while others went off to "win glory", had a large part in this? Or was it simply a change that occurred over time throughout the U.S.? - AJ L.<br />
<br />
"Even patriotic merchants were inclined to refuse to accept the town's notes." (pg 172) Did this mean each town had their own form of money within the Confederate States? -Megan Mc<br />
<br />
For a decent part of the reading it describes how the war was actually one for masculinity. The men went to war to protect the women, and after the war they buried the Confederate cause to take care of their women (as well as set up groups to assist widows and orphans.) It makes the women and the children sound completely helpless, didn’t some women end up liking the freedom and power they had while the men were off at war? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
I was not surprised that the citizens of Augusta county did not like to give economic assistance to African American citizens. Since African Americans were no longer slaves of whites, whites did not want to help out African Americans unless they acknowledged primacy of the white household.- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_4_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 4 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-01T00:39:30Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>Although I'm hesitant to say that the women in Augusta gained power through the memorial ceremonies and rituals, it certainly seems true that they gained potency and presence. Were these women, and others around the former Confederacy, simply made symbols, or was this part of a greater process by which women gained political and social power? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
How did the "divorce" of the Confederate cause from the Confederate dead result in the new understanding of both? Did this assist in a new, Christianized understanding of the Confederate dead? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
Throughout the reading I noticed that there was a huge focus on domesticity and ex-Confederate soldiers regaining the role of protecting their dependents and trying to become heads of households again. The end of the reading even said that the Southern Confederate men even had their own victory because they were chivalrous and maintained these kinds of values throughout the war even when dealing with the Union and Northern women. I'd never really heard of this type of rhetoric after the war among the South and ex-Confederates. Did many people believe the South had some type of victory in the end and during reconstruction even outside of the memorial associations or was this specifically regarding the Ladies' Memorial Association, the Confederate Survivor's Association and others like it? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
I think it is interesting that even though a lot of memorial associations were started by women people, typically men, every so often had issues with women running organizations like this in the public sphere. Even Tillet, a professor, proclaimed that he liked that women were no longer helpless like before but he still did not want to see them involved in wage labor. Did many men continue to be unhappy about women and their work in these organizations because they set them outside the domestic sphere? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Was the role of women in the memorializing of the Confederate dead an empowering one? Or was it an affirmation of their role as a domestic caretaker in a time when there was a high degree of anxiety about the maintenence of pre-war social norms? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Although women seemed to play a large role in the memorializaion of the Confederate dead, they still tried to remain subordinate to men. And in some cases, they even allowed men to play a role in the organization itself (discussed on page 189). How do you think this affected the advancement of women in the postwar society and did this limit their public role? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
The Confederate Survivors Association tried to preserve their memory, and in doing so, their histories of the Civil War "were based on a selective remembering of wartime events" (213). How do you think this "selective remembering" affected the memory of the war in the South? Also, in their reconstruction of certain events, like Sherman's march, memories shifted to make the North seem less "manly." What role do these memories play in the history of the memory of the war? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I found the information on page 163 describing how the South reconciled about the Civil War very interesting. The author states that sectional reconciliation was based on the abandonment of the causes of the war and focused instead on the common sacrifices of the individual solider, what ever his political affiliation, what ever his cause. We have tought about this a lot in class how Civil War memory became more about remembering the sacrifices of the soldiers instead of what they fought off. Did this reconciliation bring about as the other says the death of the Confederate cause? -Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_3_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 3 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-01-27T05:34:26Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>Memorial Day was founded by African Americans in Charleston. However, as the holiday became national, African Americans were usually left out of the rhetoric used in speeches on Memorial Day, which usually spoke to reconciliation. What do you think was the reason? --MK<br />
<br />
Writing served as an outlet and an avenue of memorialization of the war for veteran soldiers. Do you think the soldiers' memories of the War that were published tainted the meaning or significance of their memories? --MK<br />
<br />
How do you think veterans reacted to the publishing of ''Miss Ravenal's Conversion from Secession to Loyalty''? Blight notes that the piece did not sell well, but I wonder what reactions people had towards it. -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On page 73 Blight says that “Americans now had a defining past of mythic battles.” Why was the Revolutionary War pretty much ignored as a source of “mythic battles” for the United States and the Civil War so popularized? –Megan Mc<br />
<br />
Blight quotes the ''New York Herald'' on page 87, "The man whose memory dates back over a month is voted a bore, and accused of being interested in ancient history." This was the tone the paper wished for the Memorial Day set to happen May 30, 1877 in New York City. How do you think veterans of the war felt after reading this type of statement? Was it that easy to forget personal memories of the Civil War? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Blight says “Civil War memorialization should not be used for political purposes among the children born since the war.” (Pg94) However, six presidents elected were veterans of the war. How might they have used this in their campaign as the forms of memorialization changed in the decades after the war? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought the story about Governor Kemper and Jubal Early was interesting. In 1875 during a huge celebration in Richmond, Early told Governor Kemper that he did not want blacks at the festivities during Memorial Day. Kemper was going to ignore him but still complied a little by have the black people walk at the back of the parade and alleviated the Virginia General Assembly from taking part, a group that had a few black members in it. Blight then talks about how Early used this strategy as a way to erase blacks from confederate memory. Do you think alleviating them from this celebration could have led to them being erased from Confederate memory? Why do you think the Governor did not ignore Early fully and allow black people to participate in all the celebrations? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
Roger Pryor made a speech in 1877 about how the war had nothing to do with slavery. He claimed that slavery "just went away like the change in the weather" (pg. 91). He further said that no Southerner fought to save slaveryt nor did any Northerner end it. Do you think this argument would have been powerful enough that Northern and Southern citizens would have agreed to them? How common do you think this rhetoric was? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Blight makes it clear that both Union and Confederate histories of the war were published and read throughout the country. Why the did the Southern version become the one most accepted? --R.King<br />
<br />
What part did Decoration/Memorial Day play in the Civil War being remembered in a reconciliation view? --R.King<br />
<br />
The episode that occurred in Richmond during the unveiling of the Stonewall Jackson memorial demonstrated the roles black southerners were to play in the Lost Cause narrative. On page 83 Blight says, “the only blacks who formally participated were a contingent of former slave workers who had been in the Stonewall Brigade during the war,” and this group was positioned at the very end of a long parade. How does this episode represent the popular amnesia or reremembering process that took place across the South following the war? -Erin B.<br />
<br />
Robert E. Lee spoke urged the nation to "not keep open the sores of war" (149). Was this unique among southerners? - Erin B.<br />
<br />
Within the first 20 years after the Civil War ended, Memorial Days became days of reconciliation for many Americans but days of great distress for those who felt the South should not have been forgiven. How does this struggle represent the different memories people had about why the war was fought in the first place? - Angie<br />
<br />
Blight talks about how newspapers began publishing the war stories of individual soldiers after the War. He also says that much of the space was given to Southerners as opposed to Northerners. Why were people more interested in reading the stories of the South? - Angie<br />
<br />
I found that Sarah Rice Pryor's memorial day speeches to be very shocking since she did not hesitate discussing the issue of race, when the majority of memorial day orators would refrain from doing so. He believed that the war had nothing to do with slavery, and overall that slavery it was good as it lasted, good once it was gone; no southern fought in its defense, and no northern died to end it. I disagree with Pryor that the North did fight to end slavery and was also surprised by his statements since he was from the North.- Nick<br />
<br />
It is important to remember the atrocities that soldiers on both sides endured during the war. Some endured long term stays in prison, others lost limbs in the war, and others had acquired mental problems that would plague them throughout their lives. These were some of the memories that would form Civil War veterans' memories concerning the war.-Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_3_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 3 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-01-27T05:20:04Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>Memorial Day was founded by African Americans in Charleston. However, as the holiday became national, African Americans were usually left out of the rhetoric used in speeches on Memorial Day, which usually spoke to reconciliation. What do you think was the reason? --MK<br />
<br />
Writing served as an outlet and an avenue of memorialization of the war for veteran soldiers. Do you think the soldiers' memories of the War that were published tainted the meaning or significance of their memories? --MK<br />
<br />
How do you think veterans reacted to the publishing of ''Miss Ravenal's Conversion from Secession to Loyalty''? Blight notes that the piece did not sell well, but I wonder what reactions people had towards it. -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On page 73 Blight says that “Americans now had a defining past of mythic battles.” Why was the Revolutionary War pretty much ignored as a source of “mythic battles” for the United States and the Civil War so popularized? –Megan Mc<br />
<br />
Blight quotes the ''New York Herald'' on page 87, "The man whose memory dates back over a month is voted a bore, and accused of being interested in ancient history." This was the tone the paper wished for the Memorial Day set to happen May 30, 1877 in New York City. How do you think veterans of the war felt after reading this type of statement? Was it that easy to forget personal memories of the Civil War? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Blight says “Civil War memorialization should not be used for political purposes among the children born since the war.” (Pg94) However, six presidents elected were veterans of the war. How might they have used this in their campaign as the forms of memorialization changed in the decades after the war? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought the story about Governor Kemper and Jubal Early was interesting. In 1875 during a huge celebration in Richmond, Early told Governor Kemper that he did not want blacks at the festivities during Memorial Day. Kemper was going to ignore him but still complied a little by have the black people walk at the back of the parade and alleviated the Virginia General Assembly from taking part, a group that had a few black members in it. Blight then talks about how Early used this strategy as a way to erase blacks from confederate memory. Do you think alleviating them from this celebration could have led to them being erased from Confederate memory? Why do you think the Governor did not ignore Early fully and allow black people to participate in all the celebrations? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
Roger Pryor made a speech in 1877 about how the war had nothing to do with slavery. He claimed that slavery "just went away like the change in the weather" (pg. 91). He further said that no Southerner fought to save slaveryt nor did any Northerner end it. Do you think this argument would have been powerful enough that Northern and Southern citizens would have agreed to them? How common do you think this rhetoric was? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Blight makes it clear that both Union and Confederate histories of the war were published and read throughout the country. Why the did the Southern version become the one most accepted? --R.King<br />
<br />
What part did Decoration/Memorial Day play in the Civil War being remembered in a reconciliation view? --R.King<br />
<br />
The episode that occurred in Richmond during the unveiling of the Stonewall Jackson memorial demonstrated the roles black southerners were to play in the Lost Cause narrative. On page 83 Blight says, “the only blacks who formally participated were a contingent of former slave workers who had been in the Stonewall Brigade during the war,” and this group was positioned at the very end of a long parade. How does this episode represent the popular amnesia or reremembering process that took place across the South following the war? -Erin B.<br />
<br />
Robert E. Lee spoke urged the nation to "not keep open the sores of war" (149). Was this unique among southerners? - Erin B.<br />
<br />
Within the first 20 years after the Civil War ended, Memorial Days became days of reconciliation for many Americans but days of great distress for those who felt the South should not have been forgiven. How does this struggle represent the different memories people had about why the war was fought in the first place? - Angie<br />
<br />
Blight talks about how newspapers began publishing the war stories of individual soldiers after the War. He also says that much of the space was given to Southerners as opposed to Northerners. Why were people more interested in reading the stories of the South? - Angie<br />
<br />
I found that Sarah Rice Pryor's memorial day speeches to be very shocking since she did not hesitate discussing the issue of race, when the majority of memorial day orators would refrain from doing so. He believed that the war had nothing to do with slavery, and overall that slavery it was good as it lasted, good once it was gone; no southern fought in its defense, and no northern died to end it. I disagree with Pryor that the North did fight to end slavery and was also surprised by his statements since he was from the North.- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_3_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 3 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-01-25T03:11:52Z<p>Njesionk: /* Trelease */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Overarching questions/Debate topics ==<br />
I think that an important concept that needs to be discussed in class is if you believe the Union could have done more to prevent violence committed against African Americans? Throughout the readings it seems that the Union tried to prevent violent acts committed by the KKK but that they could have done a lot more to stop the violence committed in the South.-Nick<br />
<br />
== Trelease ==<br />
<br />
Were any of the Senators/Representatives in the KKK Hearings from the South? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
“Heretofore such men had served their masters only in the fields; now they would do not less faithful service at the polls.” As Trelease points out, “Nowhere did white underestimation of negro intelligence show itself more clearly.” While this opinion was not held the majority of white Southerners, it does demonstrate the paternalistic impulse left over from slavery. What were some of the ways in which vigilantism like the KKK was rationalized alongside a belief in a childlike dependence by the former slaves? – Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 5 Trealease writes about the belief that Emancipation increased the Southern white rape complex because freedom presumably stimulated the Negro's innate passion for white women and removed external restrains. What are your thoughts about this supreme taboo that was held by Southern whites?- Nick<br />
<br />
== Fahs/Waugh, "Anna Dickinson" ==<br />
<br />
Many men believed that women belonged in the home and not in politics, yet here was Dickinson giving political lectures and being asked by candidates to support them in her speeches (shown in Fahs and Wah’s reading when Greeley and Wilson were trying to “lure her into the campaign. Pg167) Dickinson might not have been lecturing for women’s suffrage by why wasn’t she used as an example that women did have the mind to understand politics and be allowed to vote? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
Really a bummer of an ending. When reading about the political atmosphere/discussion from this period, you almost have to expect high levels of partisan and sectional loyalties that frame all arguments and contribute to the legacy of bitterness one associates with Reconstruction – which makes reading about Dickinson and the nomination of Greeley by the Democrats all the more interesting and complicating. What could have made Dickinson hesitant to align herself more with the biggest names in women’s suffrage? –Erin B.<br />
<br />
"Dickinson, like Grant, was a veteran of the Civil War." Do you think that because the so much of the population considered themselves to be veterans, regardless if they actually fought in the war itself, helped Dickinson use Civil War memory to her advantage through her speeches? - MK<br />
<br />
Dickinson seemed to be well received by her audiences. How often did women, like Dickinson, give speeches of this caliber, and did they usually receive the same attention (whether positive or negative)? Also, both parties were persistent in getting Dickinson to work for their campaigns. Why do you think they chose to solicit her specifically? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought it was interesting how I had never heard of Anna Dickinson before yet she seemed to be a very popular speaker and lecturer at the time. She was associated with the group of people who put the issue of women suffrage aside to take on the issue of abolition. Do you think this is a reason she has not had her name mentioned as much as let's say Susan B. Anthony who continued to take on women's rights at the time? -Avanness<br />
<br />
== Blight ==<br />
<br />
Blight talks about the healing process of the nation was on the South's terms. Do you think he is fair in his assessment? -MK<br />
<br />
On page 117 Blight states "Klan violence against blacks in the Reconstruction South succeeded especially in its uses of fear." What role do you think fear plays in the recollection of black memory from this period? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
Blight states a couple of times that Northerners did not feel ready to make reconstruction=reconciliation. They believed they shouldn't have to completely forgive and forget the South and the Civil War. Do you think the Northerners who shared this opinion were being fair to the South? Were their opinions part of the reason reconstruction wasn't successful right from the beginning? -Avanness</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_3_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 3 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-01-25T02:57:44Z<p>Njesionk: /* Overarching questions/Debate topics */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Overarching questions/Debate topics ==<br />
I think that an important concept that needs to be discussed in class is if you believe the Union could have done more to prevent violence committed against African Americans? Throughout the readings it seems that the Union tried to prevent violent acts committed by the KKK but that they could have done a lot more to stop the violence committed in the South.-Nick<br />
<br />
== Trelease ==<br />
<br />
Were any of the Senators/Representatives in the KKK Hearings from the South? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
“Heretofore such men had served their masters only in the fields; now they would do not less faithful service at the polls.” As Trelease points out, “Nowhere did white underestimation of negro intelligence show itself more clearly.” While this opinion was not held the majority of white Southerners, it does demonstrate the paternalistic impulse left over from slavery. What were some of the ways in which vigilantism like the KKK was rationalized alongside a belief in a childlike dependence by the former slaves? – Erin B.<br />
<br />
== Fahs/Waugh, "Anna Dickinson" ==<br />
<br />
Many men believed that women belonged in the home and not in politics, yet here was Dickinson giving political lectures and being asked by candidates to support them in her speeches (shown in Fahs and Wah’s reading when Greeley and Wilson were trying to “lure her into the campaign. Pg167) Dickinson might not have been lecturing for women’s suffrage by why wasn’t she used as an example that women did have the mind to understand politics and be allowed to vote? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
Really a bummer of an ending. When reading about the political atmosphere/discussion from this period, you almost have to expect high levels of partisan and sectional loyalties that frame all arguments and contribute to the legacy of bitterness one associates with Reconstruction – which makes reading about Dickinson and the nomination of Greeley by the Democrats all the more interesting and complicating. What could have made Dickinson hesitant to align herself more with the biggest names in women’s suffrage? –Erin B.<br />
<br />
"Dickinson, like Grant, was a veteran of the Civil War." Do you think that because the so much of the population considered themselves to be veterans, regardless if they actually fought in the war itself, helped Dickinson use Civil War memory to her advantage through her speeches? - MK<br />
<br />
Dickinson seemed to be well received by her audiences. How often did women, like Dickinson, give speeches of this caliber, and did they usually receive the same attention (whether positive or negative)? Also, both parties were persistent in getting Dickinson to work for their campaigns. Why do you think they chose to solicit her specifically? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought it was interesting how I had never heard of Anna Dickinson before yet she seemed to be a very popular speaker and lecturer at the time. She was associated with the group of people who put the issue of women suffrage aside to take on the issue of abolition. Do you think this is a reason she has not had her name mentioned as much as let's say Susan B. Anthony who continued to take on women's rights at the time? -Avanness<br />
<br />
== Blight ==<br />
<br />
Blight talks about the healing process of the nation was on the South's terms. Do you think he is fair in his assessment? -MK<br />
<br />
On page 117 Blight states "Klan violence against blacks in the Reconstruction South succeeded especially in its uses of fear." What role do you think fear plays in the recollection of black memory from this period? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
Blight states a couple of times that Northerners did not feel ready to make reconstruction=reconciliation. They believed they shouldn't have to completely forgive and forget the South and the Civil War. Do you think the Northerners who shared this opinion were being fair to the South? Were their opinions part of the reason reconstruction wasn't successful right from the beginning? -Avanness</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_2_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 2 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-01-20T04:18:11Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Faust ==<br />
<br />
<br />
As mentioned in class, the people at this time did not have the ability to figure out who was who based on DNA when trying to bury them and report to their families. In Faust's reading, somehow James Moore was able to identify 12,912 of the 13,363 bodies of Union soldiers from Andersonville. This just seems remarkable. How long did it take him to figure the identifications of so many men? And how? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Faust talks about how the national reburial program led to the redefining of the nation. How did the treatment of the dead jeopardize the redefinition of the nation? --MK <br />
<br />
Faust discusses the role of blacks in the burials of Union soldiers across the South (192-193) and how impartial blacks were to helping the bury the Union dead. Why do you think this was, and what kind of fears do you think the slaves encountered from whites in the south who were hostile to the burying of Union soldiers in the south? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
The issue of a proper and honorable burial for soldiers, especially Union soldiers in the South was a problem after the war. How much do you think this process of creating a national cemetery system contributed to reconciliation? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Faust’s piece contrasts the reinterment process taken on by the federal government for Union soldiers with that taken on by families and women’s organizations for Confederates. The disparity really demonstrates some of the unique awkwardness of the Civil War and Reconstruction. How does this particular aspect of the aftermath of the war help to explain some of the long-held, sectional bad feelings? -Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 191, Faust writes that during Whitman’s long task to find and record Union graves throughout the South, he often came upon graves or graveyards that were terribly unkempt. Even worse, it seemed obvious that the Southerners were destroying the graveyards on purpose. On page 191, he writes that the Southerners had built roads and walkways over the graves that had all but destroyed them while nearby there were Confederate graves that were very well kept. Why did Southerners purposefully destroy Union graves when they themselves knew the feeling of not knowing where their deceased loved ones were? - Angie<br />
<br />
On Page 189 Drew Faust's work "Battle over the Bodies" how the position of the South had changed from stunned disbelief to a posture of growing defiance. One of the ways that the South continued to defy the North was to disturb the grave sites of Union soldiers which the Union was surprised that this type of action was taking place. Faust discusses that the reason for the South to desecrate Union graces was that the graves proved to be an irresistible target for southern rage and was an opportunity to express their refusal of defeat. The Confederacy was unable to defeat a live Union army, but they could stay fight against a dead one.- Nick<br />
<br />
I was particularly struck by this article. What are your personal opinions regarding Faust's discussion on violence against protectors of Union corpses. Is confederate desecration of Union tombs and bodies understandable? What are your personal reactions about the violence committed against those trying to protect or bury the bodies? Does this article make you reflect on how body treatment was portrayed in popular Civil War movies? - A. Askins<br />
<br />
Faust mentions how Southerners sometimes refused to give up the location of buried Union soldiers, even after the war. Is this rejection of reconciliation even over the dead a sign of the beginning of Southern resentment towards the North? It's interesting to note that they refused to work together, even over the simplicity of honoring the dead. - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
== Blight ==<br />
<br />
A couple times in Blight's book, African Americans' sentiments towards the war and slavery were mentioned. A good amount of the time it seemed like they wanted to look past the fact that they were enslaved and oppressed for hundreds of years. Was forgetting slavery something that most African Americans wanted to do in an attempt for reconciliation? This seems like a reaction that immediately followed the war but did not last long. -Avanness<br />
<br />
Blight briefly talks about how women in the South initially remembered the war after the Confederacy's defeat. A theme of gloom seems overwhelming for many women in the south and how they remembered the war. How often did women in the south feel this "gloomy" emotion after the conclusion of the Civil War and how did it affect their memory of it? Also, what about Northern Women? What were their perceptions on the conclusion of the war and their memories? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Why do we still embrace Blight's "blood feud"? Why haven't we,after one hundred and fifty years,reconciled the Civil War? -- R.King<br />
<br />
Blight discusses how the ideology of the "Lost Cause" developed after the Civil War had ended. The Richmond dispatch discussed that the South had fought for a "sense of rights under the Constitution," "and a conscientious conviction of the justice of their position." They went on to write how the South how sacrificed itself in order to find answers to unsettled questions left by the founding fathers. Do you agree with this statement?- Nick <br />
<br />
<br />
== Remembering Slavery ==<br />
<br />
<br />
Do you think that the use of songs in the slaves' memory of the Civil War and Emancipation impact or influence the memory for those who were relatively young at the time? --MK<br />
<br />
Why did some slaves "stick to (their)masters"? Was it because they were "too soft" as Felix Haywood stated or was it a relic of the oppression they lived with their entire lives? -- R.King<br />
<br />
<br />
On page 271 of Remembering Slavery, the story of Robert Glenn begins. Glenn’s story is interesting because even after he knew he was free, he decided to stay with his master for a year and even considered staying longer. How many freed slaves continued to stay on and live and work for their ex-masters? Why did they decide to continue to work for the people who had enslaved them even though they were now free? - Angie<br />
<br />
It is interesting to note that these accounts seem to be riddles with feelings of "undeserving" and that emancipation had little to no impact on life for slaves. In some accounts (like Felix Haywood's), emancipation is portrayed as overrated and responsible for making life harder for former slaves. Why would these oral histories have such a common tone? Is it possible these accounts were conditioned by the interviewers and ingrained fear?- A. Askins<br />
<br />
Several of the accounts (although not all) we read regarding slavery discuss how the slaves were "content" with their living situations and that it really wasn't so bad. Full bellies and a roof over their heads made up for the "occasional beating". As we discussed in class, do you think this is a biased option based on who the interviewers chose to speak with? - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
== General Questions ==<br />
<br />
<br />
A theme I have noticed throughout our readings, often in Blight, and especially now in Faust, is that of a lost opportunity. There were seemingly small but important mistakes made in message (reconciliation) and administration (the failure to treat Confederate dead the same as Union dead) that were major factors in the formation of Lost Cause ideology. Is this the case? Or were these kinds of ideas inevitable? -GStan.</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_2_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 2 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-01-20T03:13:41Z<p>Njesionk: </p>
<hr />
<div>As mentioned in class, the people at this time did not have the ability to figure out who was who based on DNA when trying to bury them and report to their families. In Faust's reading, somehow James Moore was able to identify 12,912 of the 13,363 bodies of Union soldiers from Andersonville. This just seems remarkable. How long did it take him to figure the identifications of so many men? And how? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Faust talks about how the national reburial program led to the redefining of the nation. How did the treatment of the dead jeopardize the redefinition of the nation? --MK <br />
<br />
Do you think that the use of songs in the slaves' memory of the Civil War and Emancipation impact or influence the memory for those who were relatively young at the time? --MK<br />
<br />
Faust discusses the role of blacks in the burials of Union soldiers across the South (192-193) and how impartial blacks were to helping the bury the Union dead. Why do you think this was, and what kind of fears do you think the slaves encountered from whites in the south who were hostile to the burying of Union soldiers in the south? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
The issue of a proper and honorable burial for soldiers, especially Union soldiers in the South was a problem after the war. How much do you think this process of creating a national cemetery system contributed to reconciliation? -Avanness<br />
<br />
A couple times in Blight's book, African Americans' sentiments towards the war and slavery were mentioned. A good amount of the time it seemed like they wanted to look past the fact that they were enslaved and oppressed for hundreds of years. Was forgetting slavery something that most African Americans wanted to do in an attempt for reconciliation? This seems like a reaction that immediately followed the war but did not last long. -Avanness<br />
<br />
Blight briefly talks about how women in the South initially remembered the war after the Confederacy's defeat. A theme of gloom seems overwhelming for many women in the south and how they remembered the war. How often did women in the south feel this "gloomy" emotion after the conclusion of the Civil War and how did it affect their memory of it? Also, what about Northern Women? What were their perceptions on the conclusion of the war and their memories? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Faust’s piece contrasts the reinterment process taken on by the federal government for Union soldiers with that taken on by families and women’s organizations for Confederates. The disparity really demonstrates some of the unique awkwardness of the Civil War and Reconstruction. How does this particular aspect of the aftermath of the war help to explain some of the long-held, sectional bad feelings? -Erin B.<br />
<br />
A theme I have noticed throughout our readings, often in Blight, and especially now in Faust, is that of a lost opportunity. There were seemingly small but important mistakes made in message (reconciliation) and administration (the failure to treat Confederate dead the same as Union dead) that were major factors in the formation of Lost Cause ideology. Is this the case? Or were these kinds of ideas inevitable? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Why did some slaves "stick to (their)masters"? Was it because they were "too soft" as Felix Haywood stated or was it a relic of the oppression they lived with their entire lives? -- R.King<br />
<br />
Why do we still embrace Blight's "blood feud"? Why haven't we,after one hundred and fifty years,reconciled the Civil War? -- R.King<br />
<br />
On page 191, Faust writes that during Whitman’s long task to find and record Union graves throughout the South, he often came upon graves or graveyards that were terribly unkempt. Even worse, it seemed obvious that the Southerners were destroying the graveyards on purpose. On page 191, he writes that the Southerners had built roads and walkways over the graves that had all but destroyed them while nearby there were Confederate graves that were very well kept. Why did Southerners purposefully destroy Union graves when they themselves knew the feeling of not knowing where their deceased loved ones were? - Angie<br />
<br />
On page 271 of Remembering Slavery, the story of Robert Glenn begins. Glenn’s story is interesting because even after he knew he was free, he decided to stay with his master for a year and even considered staying longer. How many freed slaves continued to stay on and live and work for their ex-masters? Why did they decide to continue to work for the people who had enslaved them even though they were now free? - Angie<br />
<br />
On Page 189 Drew Faust's work "Battle over the Bodies" how the position of the South had changed from stunned disbelief to a posture of growing defiance. One of the ways that the South continued to defy the North was to disturb the grave sites of Union soldiers which the Union was surprised that this type of action was taking place. Faust discusses that the reason for the South to desecrate Union graces was that the graves proved to be an irresistible target for southern rage and was an opportunity to express their refusal of defeat. The Confederacy was unable to defeat a live Union army, but they could stay fight against a dead one.- Nick</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_2_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 2 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-01-18T03:23:20Z<p>Njesionk: /* debate topics */</p>
<hr />
<div>== McPherson, What They Fought For, ==<br />
<br />
In McPherson's "What They Fought For," the issue of slavery was left out in the majority of the letters on both the Union and Confederate sides (pg. 49). However, many soldiers understood the War as fundamentally about slavery instead of reunion after the Emancipation Proclamation. Do you think the absence of slavery in the letters affected the soldiers' memories? --MK Napier <br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson discusses the both the North and the South's reasons for fighting and through his sampling of letters, he was able to draw some parallels between the two. Both sides seemed to connect one of their reasons for fighting to the American Revolution and upholding a sense of liberty. Do you think this connection to the American Revolution and the Civil War is important? Did many soldiers experience similar sentiments, not just the ones from McPherson's sampling? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson sampling techniques are to say the least "interesting" and at worst suspect. He has taken a very unbalanced approach when it comes to confederate letters and diaries yet takes a more balanced approach with the northern articles. Is he taking Telsen's approach of constructing a history to fit his needs or is it something more benign? -- R.King<br />
<br />
McPherson repeated over and over again about how the Confederate soldiers expected to win, that it would be better to die for the cause, and he even used the term "subjugated" to refer to losing the war to be a fate worse than death. Later on in the reading he also used the term "glorious cause." I wonder how words like this that are written in soldiers' diaries and read throughout primary sources shape the way in which people think of the Confederacy, their passion, and their reasons for their involvement in the war? -Avanness<br />
<br />
McPherson suggests that, based on his sample of journal entries, Confederate soldiers seemed largely oblivious to the irony of their references to slavery and freedom when referring to the "tyranny" of the Yankees, while suggesting that their Revolution-era counterparts were typically appreciative of this “paradox” (50-51). Is this demonstrative of a shift in culture in the South since the American Revolution or is it just an example of how patriotism is written about in war-time journal entries? -Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson throughout the section on "Holy Cause of Liberty and Independence" describes the Confederacy's motivation in fighting and discusses that the defense of their homeland was one of their chief motivations. Defending their homeland from the Union seemed to greatly inspire the Confederacy and in response to their fighting spirit a sergeant from Illinois wrote that the Confederates " fight Devils in Tophet because the were fighting to keep an enemy out of their own neighborhood and their own property" (19). An officer also from Illinois summarized the Confederacy's war motivation fairly well by stating " they are fighting from different motives than us. We are fighting for the Union... a high and noble sentiment but after all only a sentiment. They are fighting for independence and are animated by passion and hatred against invaders ... it makes no reason whether their cause is just or not. Do you agree with this statement that it made no difference if the Confederacy's cause was just or not?- Nick J.<br />
<br />
McPherson's article outlines the various motives for fighting, and the particular confederate and union attitudes regarding each other. One chapter outlined the "confederate bloodlust" at seeing dead yankees, a particularly striking chapter, but there was no parallel description of Yankee point-of-view as particularly morbid. Why would the south be more inclined to emphasize in correspondence home this morbid satisfaction? Or is this a result of historiographical error or bias?- A. Askins<br />
<br />
"What They Fought For" posits that civil war soldiers were far more idealistic than previously assumed. However, a letter does not describe a soldier's thoughts, but what they put down on paper. In any war the two may not be the same thing, though they certainly could be. Is there a difference in the two, or are the views in these letters, as McPherson suggests, largely accurate portraits of soldiers' opinions on the war? Also, it should be noted that the view in general society was that war in general was honorable and glorious, which cannot be said for the first world war or those after it. Could this have affected how a soldier chose to describe the war? -GStan.<br />
<br />
As mentioned before in McPherson’s piece both the Union soldiers and the Confederates compared themselves to the men who fought in the Revolutionary War. In your opinion, did one side have a stronger argument in comparing themselves to their forefathers? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
== Remembering Slavery ==<br />
<br />
In ''Remembering Slavery'', many of the slaves mention that did not understand the meaning of 'freedom'. For example, on page 215, a salve girl remarks, "I didn't know what 'free' meant, and I askes Mrs. Harris if I was free." I'd imagine that many slaves did not understand this concept as well, but my question is, how many of them asked their slaveholder what the meaning of free was and got a truthful answer? Were the slaveholders able to exploit their slaves further even after the Civil War ended simply because many did not understand what it meant to be free? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
== Blight, ''Race and Reunion'' ==<br />
<br />
In ''Race and Reunion'' Blight talks about themes of rebirth, reunion, and reconciliation of the nation at the end of the Civil War. Do you think that the southern memory of the Civil War (in particular the Lost Cause, Jim Crow Laws, etc.) were an attempt to stop the "rebirth" of the nation?--MK Napier<br />
<br />
Why did the promoters of the 1913 Gettysburg reunion discourage discussion of the causes of the war? Was it because it would have shown the war to be a Union failure in light of the countries acceptance of Jim Crow? -- R.King<br />
<br />
<br />
In Blight's reading and throughout "Remembering Slavery," the idea of a Black Civil War memory is mentioned. I wonder how important you think their memories about Civil War are in the way we have shaped the Civil War in our memory today? Do you think they are more important than Union or Confederate soldiers' memories or that many of their memories have been lost over time due to their slave status? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
In Race and Reunion, Blight discusses Walt Whitman’s writing about his experiences in Civil War hospitals and the ways in which witnessing the brutality of war inspired his later writing, especially the themes of death and destruction as a means to national rebirth, and redefinition. But the issues of abolition and race are absent from Whitman’s poetry and prose concerning his experiences with the “Secession War.” How does this reflect the larger, national understanding of the meaning of the end of the war for white Americans? - Erin B.<br />
<br />
== General questions ==<br />
<br />
<br />
== debate topics ==<br />
<br />
McPherson talks about northern women extolling their husbands to return home, that family was more important then fighting for their country. Did southern women fell the same way or did they feel as there husbands did. -- R.King<br />
<br />
In ''Remembering Slavery'': the importance of song and folk lyrics as their own battlefield: how did the southern blacks use song to demonstrate and spread their own current events knowledge, and what examples in this article struck you most?- A. Askins<br />
<br />
McPherson in "Remembering Slavery discusses the recruitment of African Americans in the Union Army and how the inclusion of African Americans soldiers impacted the war. In your opinion, how instrumental was African Americans joining the Union Army in contributing to the Union's victory?-Nick. J</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_2_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 2 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-01-17T23:45:06Z<p>Njesionk: /* McPherson, What They Fought For, */</p>
<hr />
<div>== McPherson, What They Fought For, ==<br />
<br />
In McPherson's "What They Fought For," the issue of slavery was left out in the majority of the letters on both the Union and Confederate sides (pg. 49). However, many soldiers understood the War as fundamentally about slavery instead of reunion after the Emancipation Proclamation. Do you think the absence of slavery in the letters affected the soldiers' memories? --MK Napier <br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson discusses the both the North and the South's reasons for fighting and through his sampling of letters, he was able to draw some parallels between the two. Both sides seemed to connect one of their reasons for fighting to the American Revolution and upholding a sense of liberty. Do you think this connection to the American Revolution and the Civil War is important? Did many soldiers experience similar sentiments, not just the ones from McPherson's sampling? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson sampling techniques are to say the least "interesting" and at worst suspect. He has taken a very unbalanced approach when it comes to confederate letters and diaries yet takes a more balanced approach with the northern articles. Is he taking Telsen's approach of constructing a history to fit his needs or is it something more benign? -- R.King<br />
<br />
McPherson repeated over and over again about how the Confederate soldiers expected to win, that it would be better to die for the cause, and he even used the term "subjugated" to refer to losing the war to be a fate worse than death. Later on in the reading he also used the term "glorious cause." I wonder how words like this that are written in soldiers' diaries and read throughout primary sources shape the way in which people think of the Confederacy, their passion, and their reasons for their involvement in the war? -Avanness<br />
<br />
McPherson suggests that, based on his sample of journal entries, Confederate soldiers seemed largely oblivious to the irony of their references to slavery and freedom when referring to the "tyranny" of the Yankees, while suggesting that their Revolution-era counterparts were typically appreciative of this “paradox” (50-51). Is this demonstrative of a shift in culture in the South since the American Revolution or is it just an example of how patriotism is written about in war-time journal entries? -Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson throughout the section on "Holy Cause of Liberty and Independence" describes the Confederacy's motivation in fighting and discusses that the defense of their homeland was one of their chief motivations. Defending their homeland from the Union seemed to greatly inspire the Confederacy and in response to their fighting spirit a sergeant from Illinois wrote that the Confederates " fight Devils in Tophet because the were fighting to keep an enemy out of their own neighborhood and their own property" (19). An officer also from Illinois summarized the Confederacy's war motivation fairly well by stating " they are fighting from different motives than us. We are fighting for the Union... a high and noble sentiment but after all only a sentiment. They are fighting for independence and are animated by passion and hatred against invaders ... it makes no reason whether their cause is just or not. Do you agree with this statement that it made no difference if the Confederacy's cause was just or not?- Nick J.<br />
<br />
== Remembering Slavery ==<br />
<br />
In ''Remembering Slavery'', many of the slaves mention that did not understand the meaning of 'freedom'. For example, on page 215, a salve girl remarks, "I didn't know what 'free' meant, and I askes Mrs. Harris if I was free." I'd imagine that many slaves did not understand this concept as well, but my question is, how many of them asked their slaveholder what the meaning of free was and got a truthful answer? Were the slaveholders able to exploit their slaves further even after the Civil War ended simply because many did not understand what it meant to be free? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
== Blight, ''Race and Reunion'' ==<br />
<br />
In ''Race and Reunion'' Blight talks about themes of rebirth, reunion, and reconciliation of the nation at the end of the Civil War. Do you think that the southern memory of the Civil War (in particular the Lost Cause, Jim Crow Laws, etc.) were an attempt to stop the "rebirth" of the nation?--MK Napier<br />
<br />
Why did the promoters of the 1913 Gettysburg reunion discourage discussion of the causes of the war? Was it because it would have shown the war to be a Union failure in light of the countries acceptance of Jim Crow? -- R.King<br />
<br />
<br />
In Blight's reading and throughout "Remembering Slavery," the idea of a Black Civil War memory is mentioned. I wonder how important you think their memories about Civil War are in the way we have shaped the Civil War in our memory today? Do you think they are more important than Union or Confederate soldiers' memories or that many of their memories have been lost over time due to their slave status? -Avanness<br />
<br />
== General questions ==<br />
<br />
<br />
== debate topics ==<br />
<br />
McPherson talks about northern women extolling their husbands to return home, that family was more important then fighting for their country. Did southern women fell the same way or did they feel as there husbands did. -- R.King</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_1_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 1 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-01-13T06:29:49Z<p>Njesionk: /* Fahs and Waugh, ''The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture'', 1-4 */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Blight, ''Race and Reunion'', Title page through 5; ==<br />
<br />
<br />
In Blight’s prologue, specifically on page 4, he writes that American’s chose romance over reality in their remembrance of the Civil War. It is easy to understand that the South might not have wanted to face the hard reality of their loss, but why did the North choose romance as well? Was it just as hard for the North to deal with the realities of the end of the War as it was for the South? – Angie<br />
<br />
How have race relations been affected by the reconciliationist ideals of the late nineteenth and much of the twentieth centuries? Were relations affected so much that these consequences reach into the modern era?- D. Radtke<br />
<br />
Are sentimental remembrances winning over reality? -- Bob King<br />
<br />
== Fahs and Waugh, ''The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture'', 1-4 ==<br />
<br />
How does Civil War memory allow for the denial of national membership to "others" (as claimed in the introduction to ''The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture'')? - Askins<br />
<br />
<br />
The introduction to ''The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture'' describes how the memory of the Civil War was often invoked for political purposes. To what extent is remembrance of the war actual cultural nostalgia, as opposed to a political tool? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Something that was interesting to me while reading the introduction to ''The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture'' was how one of the articles discusses school textbooks in the North and the South. How common was the Civil War disputed in school textbooks and also, why did the North offer so little opposition to the southern textbooks? Was it political reasons or something else? - A. Bratchie<br />
<br />
Upon reading the introduction of the memory in the Civil War I was puzzled by the statue of Lincoln that was unveiled in Richmond in 2003 brought forth protesters. After reading the sources for this week I have a better understanding for why there would be protesters because the Civil War still plays an important part in people's life's.--Nick J<br />
<br />
== David Thelen, “Memory and American History,” ''Journal of American History'', 75 (March 1989): 1117-29 ==<br />
<br />
Do you agree that it is more important the way a memory is constructed (what influences the narrator, how a person utilizes others' memories/ideas to explain about an event or detail, his or her mood/biases etc.) rather than the accuracy of the memory itself? -avanness<br />
<br />
On page 1123 of David Thelen’s article, he writes that “people together searched for common memories to meet present needs.” Later, on page 1126, he asks the question, “Why did some southern whites energize their resistance to Reconstruction with memories of a Lost Cause?” Did the need for southern whites to stand apart from Reconstruction initiate a common memory of some sort of “Lost Cause” even though perhaps the “cause” was a little bit different for each of them as individuals? If southern whites did not feel so strongly against the emancipation and equality of African Americans would they have all still united under such a memory as the “Lost Cause”? – Angie<br />
<br />
In David Thelen's piece, he discusses this idea between reconstruction vs. reproduction in terms of memories. How valid are the claims made that memory is in fact a reconstruction rather than a reproduction of past events? Also, how does this play into the validity of a person's memory of an event in history? Should it be trusted, and if so, to what extent? - A. Bratchie<br />
<br />
Do you agree with the statement in the Thelen article on page 1120 that “remembering appears to be far more decisively an affair of construction rather than one of mere reproduction”? Could it be possible to ever have a truly objective view on something such as the American Civil War? Also, did anyone expect the Thelen article to lapse into biology there in the middle? --Cash Nelson<br />
<br />
Is David Thelen saying that a historian should write several versions of his history, one for each audience he hopes to reach? --Bob King<br />
<br />
== Thomas Brown, ''The Public Art of Civil War Commemoration'', 1-14 ==<br />
<br />
Why do you think women had such a desire to create commemorative groups, especially in the south, after the Civil War? The reading by Thomas Brown said that these groups had wanted to honor those who had died, sponsor mourning ceremonies, and engage in everyday social activities. What would they have inevitably gotten out of engaging in these types of activities? -avanness<br />
<br />
What are the driving forces behind the creation of the Lost Cause- or, more broadly, the creation of a uniquely Southern memory of the Civil War? Thomas Brown argues that the aforementioned mode of memory evolved from more than a hope for vindication of the Confederacy. The north, he says, came to admire the South as a "place of respite from the economic and social pressures of life in the north" (page 8). In other words, old enemies were able to reconcile, not over issues of race, but over differences in economy and everyday life. Do you agree with this assertion? -D. Radtke<br />
<br />
What do you think can be attributed to the nation's increasingly positive view towards the history and memorializing of the Civil War? What leads us as a nation to view something so costly and divisive as necessary for commemoration and reverence? --Cash Nelson<br />
<br />
== '''Debate topics:''' ==<br />
<br />
Reconciliation undermining racial equality- Askins<br />
<br />
Northern and Southern views on the history. --Cash<br />
<br />
Is the "lost cause" a lost cause? -- B.King<br />
<br />
The three overall visions of Civil War memory that have developed: the reconciliationist vision, the white supremacist vision, and the emancipationist vision. We should discuss in detail the nature of these views and how they have developed over time.--Nick. J<br />
<br />
== General questions ==<br />
<br />
<br />
If the Race problem was so deeply ingrained in the reasoning behind the civil war, and both sides believed they were fighting for the right causes, how did the Yankee and Confederate soldiers reconcile their differences while the race problem itself continued to grow bigger and bigger?- AJ L.<br />
<br />
What methods of shaping people's memory of the civil war seemed to be most effective? The monuments that were erected, the books that told the varying history of the war (printed by both north and south), the politics of the time etc... AJ L.<br />
<br />
How does the collective memory of the Civil War from both the northern and southern perspectives influence the "American Memory" and history of the Civil War? --MK Napier <br />
<br />
Other than the Lost Cause, what might be some reasons for why the South seems to have heavily dominated the memorializing through monuments, books, movies, etc., the Civil War? --MK Napier<br />
<br />
Can someone explain the Lost Cause to me? It's exactly how I'm describing myself in trying to understand what it is... --Cash Ibid --B. King<br />
<br />
----The "Lost Cause" as an intellectual movement holds that the institution of slavery was largely a benevolent one and would have eventually died out on its own. Slaves were faithful to their owners. The South did not so much "lose" the War as they were forced to yield to a materially and economically superior foe. I think Blight talks more about it in later chapters. In a sense, the "Lost Cause" is a means of seeking some sort of justification or vindication for their ancestors. If you want to see classic Lost Causers, check out the Sons of Confederate Veterans website.... -D.R.<br />
<br />
How did Americans remember the Civil war in the period immediately following the conflict? --B. King<br />
<br />
Thelen mentions that "The challenge of history is to recover the past and introduce it to the present." However, Fahs and Waugh say that the "Civil War has never receded into the remote past." Does this make it easier or more difficult to study/research how the Civil War was seen in the past versus how we’re remembering it at 150 years later? And (how) does it differ from the researching of events that have been mostly ignored for years? –Megan Mc.</div>Njesionkhttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_1_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 1 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-01-13T04:48:12Z<p>Njesionk: /* '''Debate topics:''' */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Blight, ''Race and Reunion'', Title page through 5; ==<br />
<br />
<br />
In Blight’s prologue, specifically on page 4, he writes that American’s chose romance over reality in their remembrance of the Civil War. It is easy to understand that the South might not have wanted to face the hard reality of their loss, but why did the North choose romance as well? Was it just as hard for the North to deal with the realities of the end of the War as it was for the South? – Angie<br />
<br />
How have race relations been affected by the reconciliationist ideals of the late nineteenth and much of the twentieth centuries? Were relations affected so much that these consequences reach into the modern era?- D. Radtke<br />
<br />
Are sentimental remembrances winning over reality? -- Bob King<br />
<br />
== Fahs and Waugh, ''The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture'', 1-4 ==<br />
<br />
How does Civil War memory allow for the denial of national membership to "others" (as claimed in the introduction to ''The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture'')? - Askins<br />
<br />
<br />
The introduction to ''The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture'' describes how the memory of the Civil War was often invoked for political purposes. To what extent is remembrance of the war actual cultural nostalgia, as opposed to a political tool? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Something that was interesting to me while reading the introduction to ''The Memory of the Civil War in American Culture'' was how one of the articles discusses school textbooks in the North and the South. How common was the Civil War disputed in school textbooks and also, why did the North offer so little opposition to the southern textbooks? Was it political reasons or something else? - A. Bratchie<br />
<br />
== David Thelen, “Memory and American History,” ''Journal of American History'', 75 (March 1989): 1117-29 ==<br />
<br />
Do you agree that it is more important the way a memory is constructed (what influences the narrator, how a person utilizes others' memories/ideas to explain about an event or detail, his or her mood/biases etc.) rather than the accuracy of the memory itself? -avanness<br />
<br />
On page 1123 of David Thelen’s article, he writes that “people together searched for common memories to meet present needs.” Later, on page 1126, he asks the question, “Why did some southern whites energize their resistance to Reconstruction with memories of a Lost Cause?” Did the need for southern whites to stand apart from Reconstruction initiate a common memory of some sort of “Lost Cause” even though perhaps the “cause” was a little bit different for each of them as individuals? If southern whites did not feel so strongly against the emancipation and equality of African Americans would they have all still united under such a memory as the “Lost Cause”? – Angie<br />
<br />
In David Thelen's piece, he discusses this idea between reconstruction vs. reproduction in terms of memories. How valid are the claims made that memory is in fact a reconstruction rather than a reproduction of past events? Also, how does this play into the validity of a person's memory of an event in history? Should it be trusted, and if so, to what extent? - A. Bratchie<br />
<br />
Do you agree with the statement in the Thelen article on page 1120 that “remembering appears to be far more decisively an affair of construction rather than one of mere reproduction”? Could it be possible to ever have a truly objective view on something such as the American Civil War? Also, did anyone expect the Thelen article to lapse into biology there in the middle? --Cash Nelson<br />
<br />
Is David Thelen saying that a historian should write several versions of his history, one for each audience he hopes to reach? --Bob King<br />
<br />
== Thomas Brown, ''The Public Art of Civil War Commemoration'', 1-14 ==<br />
<br />
Why do you think women had such a desire to create commemorative groups, especially in the south, after the Civil War? The reading by Thomas Brown said that these groups had wanted to honor those who had died, sponsor mourning ceremonies, and engage in everyday social activities. What would they have inevitably gotten out of engaging in these types of activities? -avanness<br />
<br />
What are the driving forces behind the creation of the Lost Cause- or, more broadly, the creation of a uniquely Southern memory of the Civil War? Thomas Brown argues that the aforementioned mode of memory evolved from more than a hope for vindication of the Confederacy. The north, he says, came to admire the South as a "place of respite from the economic and social pressures of life in the north" (page 8). In other words, old enemies were able to reconcile, not over issues of race, but over differences in economy and everyday life. Do you agree with this assertion? -D. Radtke<br />
<br />
What do you think can be attributed to the nation's increasingly positive view towards the history and memorializing of the Civil War? What leads us as a nation to view something so costly and divisive as necessary for commemoration and reverence? --Cash Nelson<br />
<br />
== '''Debate topics:''' ==<br />
<br />
Reconciliation undermining racial equality- Askins<br />
<br />
Northern and Southern views on the history. --Cash<br />
<br />
Is the "lost cause" a lost cause? -- B.King<br />
<br />
The three overall visions of Civil War memory that have developed: the reconciliationist vision, the white supremacist vision, and the emancipationist vision. We should discuss in detail the nature of these views and how they have developed over time.--Nick. J<br />
<br />
== General questions ==<br />
<br />
<br />
If the Race problem was so deeply ingrained in the reasoning behind the civil war, and both sides believed they were fighting for the right causes, how did the Yankee and Confederate soldiers reconcile their differences while the race problem itself continued to grow bigger and bigger?- AJ L.<br />
<br />
What methods of shaping people's memory of the civil war seemed to be most effective? The monuments that were erected, the books that told the varying history of the war (printed by both north and south), the politics of the time etc... AJ L.<br />
<br />
How does the collective memory of the Civil War from both the northern and southern perspectives influence the "American Memory" and history of the Civil War? --MK Napier <br />
<br />
Other than the Lost Cause, what might be some reasons for why the South seems to have heavily dominated the memorializing through monuments, books, movies, etc., the Civil War? --MK Napier<br />
<br />
Can someone explain the Lost Cause to me? It's exactly how I'm describing myself in trying to understand what it is... --Cash Ibid --B. King<br />
<br />
----The "Lost Cause" as an intellectual movement holds that the institution of slavery was largely a benevolent one and would have eventually died out on its own. Slaves were faithful to their owners. The South did not so much "lose" the War as they were forced to yield to a materially and economically superior foe. I think Blight talks more about it in later chapters. In a sense, the "Lost Cause" is a means of seeking some sort of justification or vindication for their ancestors. If you want to see classic Lost Causers, check out the Sons of Confederate Veterans website.... -D.R.<br />
<br />
How did Americans remember the Civil war in the period immediately following the conflict? --B. King</div>Njesionk Deprecated: header(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($response_code) of type int is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 38