McClurken Wiki - User contributions [en]

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https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=Mnapier McClurken Wiki - User contributions [en] 2026-09-18T19:11:20Z User contributions MediaWiki 1.22.0 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_14_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 14 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-04-20T16:40:07Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>Bob McDonnell was criticized a lot on the blogs about his interpretation of Virginia's "shared history". Some said that he was leaving out those who were not Confederates, those that left to form West Virginia, and slaves. Others argued that Governor McDonnell was just issuing a proclamation about Virginia Confederate History month in April and his proclamations should not scrutinized. What are your opinions? -avanness I think it would be neat to have an event that related to the memory of the Civil War either in a more state-run commemoration or at the University. Maybe something like an open forum or discussion, that could include academic scholars, where the average public could comment on the way they have remembered the Civil War or their opinions on its memory. It could even be something like a survey that people would fill out just to get an idea about how historians, history teachers, Civil War buffs, or people who may not be so interested in the Civil War think about it today. -avanness I noticed that the proclamation left out West Virginia leaving Virginia during the Civil War. Do you think that this is an important event that should be included in the Civil War History Month of Virginia? Or do you think that it does not fit into the larger aspect of Civil War history of Virginia? -MK I think that it would be really neat to interview people all of ages to see how people today think about, understand, and commemorate the Civil War. I think it would be really interesting to see how many people are Civil War "buffs" and how other people think about or understand the Civil War. Maybe turning these interviews into some kind of documentary would be the best format to present it. -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_14_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 14 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-04-19T03:33:14Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>The McConnell article was interesting - even if his whole geography metaphor was kind of a stretch. The most interesting idea in terms of this class is the function of historical memory as a subject and also its evolution out of the democratized history of the 1960s. Do you agree that the study of historical memory serves in part to assign sort of a "watchdog" role to the trained historian over the proliferation of individual perceptions and stories? Do you see it as a clear evolution of the "bottom-up" history from the 1960s? --Erin B. What is the importance and influence of monuments and other physical objects in the League of the South and the Southern Party? -avanness Women were barred from the "ranks of academic historians" yet they could write sentimental fiction that many men were incapable or unable to write. What impact do you think sentimental fiction about the Civil War that was written by women had on people and the process of remembering the war? -avanness Is there a suggestion for a commemoration that Gilmore could have made that would have made everyone happy? What function does making anything like a "Confederate History Month" or a "Proclamation Honoring all Virginians..." serve? Does it serve any real function other than answering the requests of a certain group? --Erin B. What does McConnell mean by saying that Memory has geography? How was the geography of memory pertaining to the Civil War developed over the last 150 years? -Nick J I thought the Shackel piece was interesting, namely his discussion of the neo-confederate movement. He precedes this by talking about how African Americans tried to preserve their heritage which was an interesting contrast between the way the South tries to remember their heritage. Do you think that either African Americans or proponents of the Confederacy are successfully able to preserve their 'hertiage' and how far should a group of go to do so (like the League of the South)? -ABratchie Shackel starts off his piece by saying that the Lost Cause and the many monuments and other commemoration materials stemmed partly from their being no political outlet for southerners to express their views in. After the Civil War, Southerners were not pushing for the restoration of their cultural heritage and values on a political field, so they turned to commemoration. If neo-confederates are coming into existence, are monuments and commemoration still needed in the South? Why are there neo-confederate politics if the Lost Cause has been such a popular movement, was that movement not enough? - Angie McConnell's piece had a lot of interesting points that we have sort of touched on throughout the semester. Towards the end of the chapter, he discusses historical memory and briefly touches on its origins. How much trust and credibility should be placed on historical memory of the Civil War? -ABratchie I really liked how McConnell discussed public space and how what goes into that public space is reflective of who is in power. If we are to look at public spaces over time and see what has changed or been placed in them (such as monuments, buildings, or even plaques) it seems as though we could make a judgement of who was in power at the time. When confederate memorials were built, it seems safe to say that Confederate sympathizers were in charge. But when a confederate flag is brought down, does that say that they are no longer in that position? In the end, public spaces seem really important to how we understand society. - Angie Do you think that historians today should make an effort to try to recognize and establish monuments for people today who were left out by those in power at the time? Or is that part of our history? -MK Why do you think there was so much resentment from Southerns to the erection of an Arthur Ash on Monument Avenue in Richmond Virginia, where Ash was from. Was the only reason they were against it was because they felt that the monument did no belong there since this famous avenue only contained monuments of Confederate Generals. Do you think if the Ash monument was put somewhere besides monument avenue that there would have been no resentment against the monument from neo-Confederates.- Nick J Why haven't as many African Americans protested the absence of the Robinson family at the Manassas Battlefield? -Megan Mc. Shackel talks about the struggle to control public memory. What power struggles for the control over the collective public memory have been or will be at play for the 150th Anniversary of the Civil War? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-04-07T01:22:41Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>One theme that we kind of keep coming back to and that i think Horwitz's description of Stone Mountain represents, is the difficulty in balancing political correctness with existing symbols of Confederate pride. Is there a way to balance a fair and modern approach to the history of the south while avoiding socially incendiary messages - and still end up with something meaningful? --Erin B. On page 312 Horwitz discusses that when he visited Georgia he expected to see reduced homes with charred chimneys, but once again he learned that much of what he had absorbed of the Civil War was more mythic than factual. If Sherman's march to the sea was more mythic than factual in regards to the destruction committed against the Confederate countryside, why do southerners still view Sherman one of if not the biggest Northern villains of the Civil War? What has taken place currently in Civil War memory that make southerners despite Sherman even more today than the did during the Civil Wars?-Nick As Horwitz puts it on page 317 why is the fate of prisoner of wars arguably the most neglected aspect of the Civil War? Over 400,000 men were captured during the war and thousands died of diseases due to harsh conditions at prison camps such as Andersonville.Is it because people want to remember simply neglect the pain and suffering that the prison camps symbolized and spend more of their attention on studying aspects of the war that is not as dark and upsetting?- Nick How has Montgomery handled its historical treatment of both the Confederacy and Civil Rights? Is it doing something better than other southern towns? --Erin B. In the concluding chapter, Horwitz talks about the Robert Warren Penn essay that argues that memorializing the Civil War is "the ritual of being American." Do you think this explains why people without family connections to the Civil War are still passionate about the War? -MK Why do you think that the Robinson house was not preserved as well as the Henry house? How does this change the memory of the Battle of Manassas? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-04-07T01:16:59Z

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-04-05T00:36:00Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>One of the most interesting people Horwitz meets - and certainly one of the most provocative - was Walt, the cable-box repairing, Star Trek-loving, anti-Semitic vegetarian. Walt's extremism and white supremacist ideas evolved out of the tumultuous politics of the 1960s and a lack of faith in government. For Walt, the Confederacy represented subjected peoples around the world and he fit them into an obsessive, self-deduced picture of the conspiracies that run the world. Naturally, Walt is a crazy person, but does this progression from the unrest of the 1960s to a neoconfederate position have some kind of linear path? --Erin B. How does the grandson of a Russian Jew from "between Minsk and Pinsk" get interested in the Confederacy? R.King On page 149 Shelby Foote talks about the "difference between North and South", is this 'difference' why the South still clings to the memory of the Civil War and believes such a distorted history of the event? R. King While Horwitz is in Vicksburg, he notices a different kind of racial divide than he saw in some other places. What is different about the culture of Vicksburg? Or is any place in the South a Guthrie waiting to happen? --Erin B. When Horwitz is talking to the African American preacher Michael King, he asks him "if there was any way that white Southerns to honor their forebears without insulting his." King responded with: "Remember you ancestors, but remember what they fought for too. and recognize it was wrong." (pg. 44) I was just curious what yall's thoughts on this was... -MK In Chapter 6, Horwitz is at the reenactment of the Battle of Wilderness. He discusses some of the draws for reenactors to either fight for the North or South. One of the reasons for siding with the South was "Americans' instinctive allegiance to underdogs." (pg. 136) How much do you think this plays into the general public's minds about the South? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_11_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 11 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-03-31T02:33:03Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>The movie Glory came out during a time (1989) when more of the social aspects of the Civil War were beginning to become more prevalent throughout the scholarly literature about the war. The movie focuses on the African Americans who made up the 54th Massachusetts regiment and told the story of their contributions of Union soldiers. Do you think there is a reason that not too many other films were created that solely focused on African Americans' contributions during the war? Is this film a sufficient-enough source to sum up their experiences during the war? -avanness Ken Burns created the series ''The Civil War'' which propelled much criticism. Some of the reasons given in the article for the criticism were his unbalanced focus on the eastern and western fronts during the war, the lack of depth on the discussion of generals (he basically only focused on Lee, Grant, and Sherman), and, like so many Lost Cause authors, he contributed the Confederates' defeat with the enemy's material strength. Why do you think Ken Burns chose to create the series in the way he did? Why did he limit many of his sources to mere memoirs that were full of inaccuracies rather than additionally researching the expansive amount of scholarly literature written on the subject? -avanness I found it interesting how ''Glory'' seemed to gloss-over some important aspects about Shaw, such as his decision to take charge of the unit in the first place. Do you think this downplaying of certain historical aspects was crucial for a film like ''Glory''? Do you think the movie would have been less successful if it did not do this? -ABratchie I too, like Amy, wondered why Burns would not research using the academic sources that were readily available to him. I think that if he had done that, though, the series may not have received the praise it did from non-academic magazines (and the public, of course). I do question, however, what important aspects of the Civil War were lost since he did not consult a large variety of scholarly sources? How would this have possibly changed the results of the series and critique from academics? -ABratchie Was "Glory" a good movie because it "reshaped the parameters of the Vietnam conventions and reinvented a notably absent moral worldview" or was it successful because it was simply a good movie? R.King Who was Burn's target audience? Did the "The Civil War" meet the expectations of that audience? R.King Cullen chooses an interesting quote to lead into his discussion of pro and anti-war sentiment in film. "America is to thee, thou boasted land of liberty, it is to thee I raise my song, thou land of blood, of crime and wrong" (James Whitfield). I know it is hard to generalize Civil War movies, but do you feel that as a genre they portray the "land of liberty," or the "land of blood, of crime and wrong"?- aaskins In the article on Burn's ''The Civil War'', the author mentions that any documentary that did not place the military event at center stage could be charged with distortion (pp 247). However, isn't there the most potential for distortion in the depiction of the military event? Or do you feel that by shifting the focus on other things, the portrayal can be better warped?- aaskins The article of Burn's ''The Civil War'' mentions that Burns displayed simplistic interpretations of key figures, especially the generals. Do you think this truly had an effect on how people understand the Civil War? -MK Where is the line drawn between historically accurate films and entertainment? Can a line be drawn? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_11_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 11 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-03-29T02:00:05Z

Mnapier: New page: In Chadwick's article, he mentions that Griffith never truly understood the impact of ''Birth of a Nation.'' Do you believe that? -MK In Gallagher's article- he says that it yet to be se... <hr /> <div>In Chadwick's article, he mentions that Griffith never truly understood the impact of ''Birth of a Nation.'' Do you believe that? -MK In Gallagher's article- he says that it yet to be seen whether or not the Lost Cause will be vanquished in modern-day films about the Civil War. Do you think that the Lost Cause rhetoric still plays a big role in people's memory and understanding of the Civil War or has it pretty much faded out? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_10_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 10 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-03-21T14:31:50Z

Mnapier: New page: In every chapter, Desjardin refers back to this idea of the "mythology" of the Civil War and how it has been shaped by the reinterpretations of the public memory of the war. Do you think t... <hr /> <div>In every chapter, Desjardin refers back to this idea of the "mythology" of the Civil War and how it has been shaped by the reinterpretations of the public memory of the war. Do you think that Gettysburg is the perfect symbolism for the "mythology" of the Civil War? -MK Do you think that National Parks and Civil War battlefields should explain more of the history behind how and why a particular marker or monument came to be placed at specific sites? Does there need to be more historical justification for these memorials? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-03-17T03:35:25Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>Did the Civil War bring the US economy into the industrial age or did the war slow down economic growth and development? This question has proven to be quite controversial over the last 150 years, and historians like other Civil War topics have not comer to a consensus about this question. Overall what was the Civil Wars' impact on the US economy?- Nick J. Faust states that "nearly a century has failed to resolve debate about the war's impact on women, but the centrality of this question to the concerns of contemporary feminism suggest that it is unlikely to be abandoned as a framework for viewing women's experiences between 1861 and 1865." (239). What types historiography do you think will appear in the future surrounding women's roles during the Civil War? -ABratchie In the introduction, McPherson and Cooper point out that there are still gaps in the historiography and that some issues need to be further studied, such as the role of religion in the Union and Confederacy. Do you think that historians will be successful in addressing these gaps? Why do you think that these topics have not had sufficient treatment? -ABratchie I think the social history aspect of the Civil War is interesting. McPherson and Cooper mention it in the introduction. This focus of the civil war includes gender, race, and class. Why do you think these aspects of the war take so long to get discussed especially by historians and authors? -avanness Gary Gallagher discusses the Northern military strategy in his piece. He says that a historian named T. Harry Williams believes that the Northern generals were not "that great" because they were into more of the maneuvering rather than fighting. Do you agree? -avanness The Roark essay made it pretty clear that the main downfall of the confederacy was the lack of a cohesive economic plan. Was it inevitable that the confederacy would fail because of their reliance on States rights over a strong centralized government? R. King I was struck by the lack of historiography on the trials and tribulations of lower class women, even though they made up the majority of those affected by the war. Does the difficulty lie in illiteracy; that these women didn’t or couldn’t write about their troubles? Or is it simply that the upper classes are more interesting to write about? R. King Why do academics use words like “tendentious”? R.King In Reid Mitchell's article "Not the General" But the General: The studying of Civil War Generals and on the first page Reid states that despite the status the status of Lee, Grant and Sherman among American generals, the war was not won by strategic brilliance. Both sides displayed roughly the same level of competence, and both thought about the matter militarily in the same way. What do you think of Mitchell's statement? Did the North and the South think about military matters the same way as Mitchell suggests or did the think about militarily affairs differently? Personally I think they thought about it differently and I believe that this is an important topic to bring up in class on Thursday. Nick J Mitchell talks about the culture of Northern and Southern culture. He talks about sometimes it was a shared cultural but that they were still fundamentally different. We've talked about the various cultures of the North and South but not focused directly on the soldiers. What did yall make of this? -MK Gallagher and Kolchin both mention the self-liberation of the slaves during the civil war. Who did yall think actually freed the slaves? Can it be attributed to one group or person? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-03-15T02:15:44Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>In the Shackel piece, the author talks about African Americans experiences during the war and after. In particular, he mentions a variety of ways in which African Americans began to be recognized especially in the mid-twentieth century. What were some of these ways? How do you think this group of people would have responded to finally being included in the "national consciousness?" -Avanness A lot of the readings we have read have talked about how the memorial organizations, monuments, ceremonies etc. have at least partially been created because of the desire to transmit stories to younger generations. Do you think this remains one of the main factors as to why individuals or groups of people wish to commemorate or memorialize events or figures in history today? -Avanness Le Anne White concludes her essay with a pondering about what memorialization will look like the further we get from the Civil War. Do you think we as a people will ever put enough distance between us and the Civil War to look at it with a less jaundiced eye? -R.King To me the Ayers piece was the most interesting of the three readings. Do you think that a new revisionist look at the Civil War would "place more distance between nineteenth century Americans and ourselves,"? -R.King I was a bit disturbed by Shackel's statement that the National Park Service's "interpretation" of the Manassas battle field purposely eliminates any discussion of the causes of the Civil War. Don't you think they should embrace that aspect of the history and at the very least put the battle fought there in some kind of context? -R.King In Memory in Black and White Shackle discusses how the construction of public memory has changed since World War II. Author Michael Kammen states that since World War II, commemoration activities in the United States have became increasingly decentralized as the federal government has played a decreasing role in the construction of public memory (Shakle pg. 13). The lack of commemoration activities has played a significant role in the construction of public memory, but what other factors contribute to public memory? Also is the decentralization of commemoration a depoliticized process, or a highly politicized process? -Nick. J I also really liked the Ayers article, and reading it made me realize how deeply ingrained the Ken Burns Civil War narrative is in me. Do you think that that narrative is still serving a purpose in American memory? What purpose is that and what would change that narrative's usefulness in defining us as a nation? --Erin B Ayers brought up several important points regarding the way narratives on the Civil War have transformed. Is there one or more interpretations that hold more weight than the others? Also, he notes that "slavery and freedom remain the keys to understanding the war- but they are the place to begin our questions, not end them." Do you agree with this assessment? -ABratchie Do you think that the partnership between African Americans and white women at the University of Mississippi to change and "take aim at the very aspects of Southern culture that the UDC had labored so diligently to promote" was an isolated case (226)? How much of the Civil War memory do you think really prompted this type of action on the part of the students? -ABratchie Why was the movement of the Confederate rock to another state building not contested by the students from th University of Missouri who had fought for its removal from campus? Does this say something about the community that the school had created or the community the students expected from the school (229ish Leeann Whites)? --Erin B. Why did revisionism which was so powerful in the first half of the twentieth century fade away as Ayers says in the second half of the 20th century. Were revisionists simply sentimentalists? -Nick J In Leeann Whites' piece, she mentions "the appropriateness of Confederate memorialization." Just like with the Confederate battle flag- where do you draw the line? Or can a line be drawn? -MK Shackel discusses how a common history does not mean a common experience. How does this lack on common experience change the public memory of the Civil War? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-03-10T03:02:05Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>Coski describes numerous compromises in the South regarding the Confederate flag. With a symbol as emotionally charged as the Confederate flag, is compromise acceptable?- aaskins If public display of the confederate flag was to be banned, which of the following two reactions would be most likely: 1. support for the flag would surge and incite greater conflict OR 2. people would move past the issue, and learn to forget. -aaskins I thought it was interesting how people began to cite different hypocrisies in school systems that tried to ban the Confederate Flag. Do you think school systems were right in trying to ban the flag or do you think it just caused more problems? -ABratchie We talked about this a little on Tuesday, but Coski discusses the meaning of the Confederate Flag overseas in Europe. He states "the Europeans have grasped something that Americans take for granted: the Confederate flag is fundamentally an American Flag" (293). Do you agree with his statement in that American's take the Confederate Flag for granted as an American Flag? Do you think it is an American Flag? -ABratchie The Battle Flag has been compared to many other symbols that have been perceived as intolerant, like the swastika or even symbols of black power. Are some of these more apt than others? Is there an absolute line that can be drawn between what it is comporable to and what it isn't, one rooted in history? Or is it all relative? -GStan. I thought the controversy that involved the college student named Kerrigan who hung her confederate flag out her window on campus was interesting. If she told people she did this because it reminded her of home and her heritage why did people continue to be defensive about the matter and insist her actions were inappropriate? -avanness Do defenders of the Confederate flag have a right to be able to fly the flag in public because of the first amendment? Are their rights being violated? -avanness Avanness, I think that since people are protected under the first amendment in the burning of the American Flag, that defenders of the Confederate Flag are equally protected in their flying of the flag in public. -MK I left the section about tolerance (or lack there of) for the battle flag in public schools feeling rather confused. I think that the courts generally did the right thing in protecting the rights of the minority against intimidation but there are some cases, like the middle school kid who got suspended for drawing a Confederate flag in his notebook, that seem a little ridiculous. It seems like some schools are censoring before there was really even an issue, because they think the flag is inherently racist. Which brings us to the debate of whether or not the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism or a heritage symbol… or both? I’m really not sure what I think. - Angie I found it really interesting that groups like the SCV and UDC tried to distance themselves quite far from the Klan. When they were campaigning to keep the battle flag at the Capitol in Alabama, it was their worst fear that the Klan would start campaigning for it as well because that would just prove to everyone that it really was a racial symbol. They were both campaigning for the flag to stay but for completely different reasons. - Angie Do you think the prominence of the flying of the Confederate Flag in response to the Civil Rights Movement added more the rebel image or the racist image of the Confederate Flag? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-03-10T03:00:31Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>Coski describes numerous compromises in the South regarding the Confederate flag. With a symbol as emotionally charged as the Confederate flag, is compromise acceptable?- aaskins If public display of the confederate flag was to be banned, which of the following two reactions would be most likely: 1. support for the flag would surge and incite greater conflict OR 2. people would move past the issue, and learn to forget. -aaskins I thought it was interesting how people began to cite different hypocrisies in school systems that tried to ban the Confederate Flag. Do you think school systems were right in trying to ban the flag or do you think it just caused more problems? -ABratchie We talked about this a little on Tuesday, but Coski discusses the meaning of the Confederate Flag overseas in Europe. He states "the Europeans have grasped something that Americans take for granted: the Confederate flag is fundamentally an American Flag" (293). Do you agree with his statement in that American's take the Confederate Flag for granted as an American Flag? Do you think it is an American Flag? -ABratchie The Battle Flag has been compared to many other symbols that have been perceived as intolerant, like the swastika or even symbols of black power. Are some of these more apt than others? Is there an absolute line that can be drawn between what it is comporable to and what it isn't, one rooted in history? Or is it all relative? -GStan. I thought the controversy that involved the college student named Kerrigan who hung her confederate flag out her window on campus was interesting. If she told people she did this because it reminded her of home and her heritage why did people continue to be defensive about the matter and insist her actions were inappropriate? -avanness Do defenders of the Confederate flag have a right to be able to fly the flag in public because of the first amendment? Are their rights being violated? -avanness I think that defends of the Confederate flag are totally in right to be able to fly the flag in public. If people are allowed to burn the American Flag because it is their first amendment right, then I believe that defenders of the Confederate Flag are equally allowed to fly it. -MK I left the section about tolerance (or lack there of) for the battle flag in public schools feeling rather confused. I think that the courts generally did the right thing in protecting the rights of the minority against intimidation but there are some cases, like the middle school kid who got suspended for drawing a Confederate flag in his notebook, that seem a little ridiculous. It seems like some schools are censoring before there was really even an issue, because they think the flag is inherently racist. Which brings us to the debate of whether or not the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism or a heritage symbol… or both? I’m really not sure what I think. - Angie I found it really interesting that groups like the SCV and UDC tried to distance themselves quite far from the Klan. When they were campaigning to keep the battle flag at the Capitol in Alabama, it was their worst fear that the Klan would start campaigning for it as well because that would just prove to everyone that it really was a racial symbol. They were both campaigning for the flag to stay but for completely different reasons. - Angie Do you think the prominence of the flying of the Confederate Flag in response to the Civil Rights Movement added more the rebel image or the racist image of the Confederate Flag? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-03-08T02:42:22Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>On page 123 Coski states that in 1948, presumably following the surge in flag-bearing during the Dixiecrat campaign while anticipating the flag fad in the early 50s, "the UDC sought to prevent political groups from appropriating the flag and to prevent misuse of the flag by souvenir manufacturers and overzealous youths." What do you think would have constituted "misuse" in the eyes of the UDC and what meaning were they trying to protect? --Erin B. Some flag defenders resented the conflation of the Confederate battle flag with racism as it was taken up by segregationist groups during the era of Civil Rights and massive resistance. What was the tradition that they sought protect by keeping certain southern attitudes separate from an historical symbol? Even when divorced of the more recent violent implications of the Confederate flag (like use by the KKK), Senator Mosely-Braun points on page 197 that the historical importance of the flag is equally as capable of serving as a painful reminder of ongoing racial inequality and prejudice, so how do you think heritage organizations and flag 'purists' would have responded to that? --Erin B. Do you think Coski has succeeded in presenting the subject in and objective manner? R. King Did the flag become "the flag" because of it's association with the Army of Northern Virginia and there for R. E. Lee? -R.King Why has the flag become the most contentious symbol of the American Civil War and in particular to the Confederacy? - R.King How much of the "flag fad" of the late 40's, early 50's do you think contributed to the the way the flag is marketed and commercialized today? -ABratchie On page 145 Coski states, "The collection and interpretation of evidence for the Confederate flag's racist use present significant challenges. They depend upon eyewitnesses or photographers troubling to notice and document the flag's presence as a symbol of segregation or white supremacy." Do you think proponents of Civil Rights were able to successfully argue that the Confederate Flag embodied racism despite the idea by many that the flag represented states rights, while keeping in mind the difficulty in proving its racist links with evidence? -ABratchie Discussion topics for tomorrow. The Confederate battle flag as a military implement. Why was the Confederate battle flag created? What did the battle flag mean to soldiers that fought in the war? The different types of battle flags that were used. Logan T How was the Confederate battle flag used during reconstruction? Why was the Confederate battle flag used by American military units in other wars? What was the flag fad in the 1950s about? How have racist groups used the Confederate battle flag? Logan T Do you think that the commercialization of the Confederate Flag (being printed on bikinis and beach towels) lead to the flag representing more of a rebel image than a symbol of Southern heritage? -MK Coski's objective with this book is to make both defenders and opponents of the Confederate Flag to in a sense try to logically understand one another. Do you think that this is a realistic goal, when there is still so much debate over the causes of the Civil War? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 6 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-02-17T04:04:06Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>In Woodrow Wilson’s speech, he repeatedly talks about how the 50 years since the Civil War have been “peaceful” and have been “without class or difference of kind or race or origin.” It seems like he is talking about a completely different country considering violence against African Americans was at its height in the 50 years after the war. Its not surprising, as Blight points out, that African Americans were opposed to reunions such as these. I wouldn’t want to listen to an idealized memory that was fundamentally false either. - Angie I found it interesting that while the general theme in the North after the war was to move on, McKinley’s campaign actually brought up the war in order to win. They compared the masses that were marching for federal aid to those rebellious Southerners of the Civil War. Basically, if someone was disturbing the peacefulness of union, then they were akin to a Confederate. I guess this shows that the North really hadn’t forgotten the war and were willing to use it for their convenience. - Angie Kelly begins his article stating that the GOP's slogan for the 1896 election was "Vote as you shot." But after reading the rest of the article, it did not seem to me that this was an appropriate quote to describe the issues at play during this election. If the true concern was to avoid class conflict and sectionalism as the Republican party claims Bryan was going to cause, then why would they say to vote as shot?- Aaskins Topic for discussion: the role of blacks in raising historical awareness. How did people such as Grimké ad Du Bois use memorial and patriotic rhetoric to raise the issue of emancipation memory? Is their own patriotic discourse a distortion of memory?- Aaskins Why would President Wilson say "In their presence it were an impertinence to discourse upon how the battle went, how it ended, what it signified!"? Wasn't it the purpose of the reunion to "to talk over the events of the battle here as man to man" as stated by Governor Mann? -- R.King In 1896 the GOP platform for the first time since the end of the Civil War omitted any demand that the federal government use it's military power to guarantee black suffrage in the South. (Fahs,Waugh 181) The New York Times approved of this move stating that it indicated McKinley's "sagacity...appealing to a common patriotism to protect the Nation's honor." Were the Jim Crow laws honorable? --R.King Earlier in our reading about the Shaw memorial a question was raised about whether the memorial degraded the African/American soldier by moving him to the background, in today's reading we heard from W.E.B DuBois regarding the Shaw memorial, "How extraordinary, and what a tribute to ignorance and religious hypocrisy, is the fact that in the minds of the people...only murder makes men. The slave pleaded; he was humble; he protected the women of the South, and the world ignored him. The slave killed white men; and behold, he was a man!"Does this quote prove that the memorial was in fact a monument to the African/American fighting man? --R.King I brought this question up in an earlier wiki post but it seems extremely relevant now, especially regarding Angie's comment about the violence towards African Americans during the 50 years after the Civil War. Do you think that the white supremacy ideology was the basis of the reconciliation of the Union? -MK Fahs and Waugh spend a great deal of time talking about the impact and influence veterans had on the election. Why do you think that is not so much the case today? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 6 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-02-15T00:47:09Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>On page 229, Blight discusses Joel Chandler Harris's story "The Comedy of War" he describes an impending battle on Squire Farnborogh's farm. Apparently the Squire has a son fighting in each army. Although the story is fiction is there truth to the fact that brother faced brother, and how common place was this? --R. King Blight seems to be saying that the Underground Railroad is a myth, is this true? -- R. King We had discussed to a limited extent in class the ways in which classical ideals played into a creation of the memory of the Confederacy. DuBois seems to strike at the heart of this when he says, "we seek in vain the Teutonic deification of Self, and Roman brute force." Why else would he feel it necessary to base his speech around the glories of the Teutonic or the Roman Empires, unless he saw the Lost Cause becoming institutionalized?- DRadtke DuBois argues that the nation that Jefferson Davis represented was getting in the way of civilization of the United States. How might Southern Lost Causers counter this argument? -MK The rhetoric that Frederick Douglass uses in his Decoration Day speech is similar to the rhetoric of the Lost Cause- especially when speaking about how the future generations would "study the deeds of fathers.." Are their motivations similar? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_5_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 5 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-02-10T00:45:51Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>The textbook war waged by the UCV and the UDC had the interesting outcome of causing Northern publishers to pander to Southern narratives out of fear of a boycott of their products. This is a good illustration of the issues of the Civil War simply meaning more to the South than it did to the North. I wonder, though, if these discrepancies were ever noted by Northern schoolchildren in any way nearly approaching that of Southern school children. – Erin B. Do you read the trends in juvenile Civil War fiction in the 1880s as an attempt to instill the ideals they supported (white supremacy, white reconciliation, etc.) or were the writers simply responding to the market? – Erin B. The issue over the "truthful" history of the Civil has been a common link between all the various readings this week, especially in McPherson's essay concerning textbooks. He mentions how Rutherford created her own "facts" surrounding the Civil War which were completely false. How do you think this push by the South to embody the Lost Cause rhetoric in textbooks has affected the memory of the war today? Also, do you think these "facts" presented by Rutherford should be considered as historical interpretations of the war despite their untruthfulness? -ABratchie I have never learned about some of the beliefs that Grant had about the Civil War that he wrote in "Report to Congress." In particular, Grant said that South's advantages offset Northern superiority and that Northern soldiers fought just as well and under more difficult circumstances to that of the South. Do you agree with these statements? Do you think the South really did have more advantages in the war or was this just a ploy by Grant to get people to believe the North had to work harder in order to win? -Avanness To add to our conversation from Tuesday, the essay in Fahs and Waugh on textbooks talked about how veterans wanted to keep the "Confederate heritage alive through children of veterans." Do you think these textbooks and the push to get the "correct" history of the war written down from the South's perspective are two reasons as to why the Lost Cause view is still around today and just as popular especially in the South? Were the ex-Confederates trying to create a legacy they knew would continue to be alive more than 100 years later because of their children and future relatives? -Avanness Waugh talks about Grant's ability to write "clear and forceful battle reports" and how this was the same for when he was writing his memoirs. Do you think that his ability to make himself look successful makes his autobiography more of a work of fiction? -MK In the trends of the children's books, Fahs argues that both Optic and Page used notions of white supremacy and white reconciliation and how because of this African Americans were typically left out. Do you think that the only way for the Union to reconcile was through the ideology of white supremacy? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_5_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 5 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-02-08T02:50:29Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>The soldiers who wrote pieces for magazines such as the ''Confederate Veteran'' included a lot of stories or war memories that related to or tied into reconciliation. Blight even stated that reconciliation and fraternalism dominated a lot of the ex-soldiers memories. Since these stories and memories were all written down, I was wondering if you think the idea for reconciliation, at least among the soldiers, would have come as quickly if the veterans had never received the opportunity to write for the magazines? -Avanness I was a little surprised to read repeatedly how proponents of the Lost Cause believed and stated that slavery was not the cause of the Civil War. They argued that secession from the Union was the main cause for the South's participation in the war. People who believed in the Lost Cause even ended up rejecting people like John Mosby who was against reunion and was adamant about claiming slavery was the cause of the war. Why do you think this was? Do you think the South was really just trying to save their image or were they really ready for reconciliation with the North? -Avanness I was also surprised to see how persistent Lost Causers advocated that the war had been about secession, not slavery. Blight talks about how the Lost Cause idea itself transformed, and race was the most commonly left out. What advantages did this have for Southerners and reconciliation? How do you think memory would have changed if race and slavery had been incorporated into the Lost Cause? -ABratchie In Chapter 6, most of the veterans’ recollections and assessments of battle and the war in general became popular about twenty years after the war. Blight mentions that for many of the soldiers, dwelling on some of the raw memories in the years just following the war was simply too painful, but then later in the chapter suggests some other reasons that celebrating the valor of the soldiers gained common appreciation across sections. What caused the nationwide decline in race relations in the last decades of the century? – Erin B. Blight quotes Robert S. Dabney on pg 263 as having written that "Yankees would ultimately meet their just fate...'in the day of their calamity, in pages of impartial history, and in the Day of Judgment.'" Harsh words. Do you think that religion played a larger role in understanding the effects of the war in South than in the North? What kind of a role did it play in South? -- Erin B. Blight talks extensively about soldiers memories in ''Century'' Magazine. Most of those memories, however, came from famous generals, not "many ordinary voices" (179). What do you think the impact of those memories was on society and what do you think was lost from the recollections that were omitted from the issues? -ABratchie Blight talked how Civil War veterans wanted to pass along the virtues of the soldiers down to the next generation. Do you think this motivated more veterans to write about their war experience and join memorialization organizations? - MK I found Blight's description of Civil War memory as a national pastime very interesting. What were other people's reaction to this statement? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_3_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 3 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-01-26T18:13:00Z

Mnapier: New page: Memorial Day was founded by African Americans in Charleston. However, as the holiday became national, African Americans were usually left out of the rhetoric used in speeches on Memorial D... <hr /> <div>Memorial Day was founded by African Americans in Charleston. However, as the holiday became national, African Americans were usually left out of the rhetoric used in speeches on Memorial Day, which usually spoke to reconciliation. What do you think was the reason? --MK Writing served as an outlet and an avenue of memorialization of the war for veteran soldiers. Do you think the soldiers' memories of the War that were published tainted the meaning or significance of their memories? --MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_3_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 3 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-01-24T23:24:09Z

Mnapier: /* Blight */ <hr /> <div>== Overarching questions/Debate topics == == Trelease == Were any of the Senators/Representatives in the KKK Hearings from the South? –Megan Mc. “Heretofore such men had served their masters only in the fields; now they would do not less faithful service at the polls.” As Trelease points out, “Nowhere did white underestimation of negro intelligence show itself more clearly.” While this opinion was not held the majority of white Southerners, it does demonstrate the paternalistic impulse left over from slavery. What were some of the ways in which vigilantism like the KKK was rationalized alongside a belief in a childlike dependence by the former slaves? – Erin B. == Fahs/Waugh, "Anna Dickinson" == Many men believed that women belonged in the home and not in politics, yet here was Dickinson giving political lectures and being asked by candidates to support them in her speeches (shown in Fahs and Wah’s reading when Greeley and Wilson were trying to “lure her into the campaign. Pg??) Dickinson might not have been lecturing for women’s suffrage by why wasn’t she used as an example that women did have the mind to understand politics and be allowed to vote? –Megan Mc. Really a bummer of an ending. When reading about the political atmosphere/discussion from this period, you almost have to expect high levels of partisan and sectional loyalties that frame all arguments and contribute to the legacy of bitterness one associates with Reconstruction – which makes reading about Dickinson and the nomination of Greeley by the Democrats all the more interesting and complicating. What could have made Dickinson hesitant to align herself more with the biggest names in women’s suffrage? –Erin B. "Dickinson, like Grant, was a veteran of the Civil War." Do you think that because the so much of the population considered themselves to be veterans, regardless if they actually fought in the war itself, helped Dickinson use Civil War memory to her advantage through her speeches? - MK == Blight == Blight talks about the healing process of the nation was on the South's terms. Do you think he is fair in his assessment? -MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_3_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 3 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-01-24T23:21:09Z

Mnapier: /* Fahs/Waugh, "Anna Dickinson" */ <hr /> <div>== Overarching questions/Debate topics == == Trelease == Were any of the Senators/Representatives in the KKK Hearings from the South? –Megan Mc. “Heretofore such men had served their masters only in the fields; now they would do not less faithful service at the polls.” As Trelease points out, “Nowhere did white underestimation of negro intelligence show itself more clearly.” While this opinion was not held the majority of white Southerners, it does demonstrate the paternalistic impulse left over from slavery. What were some of the ways in which vigilantism like the KKK was rationalized alongside a belief in a childlike dependence by the former slaves? – Erin B. == Fahs/Waugh, "Anna Dickinson" == Many men believed that women belonged in the home and not in politics, yet here was Dickinson giving political lectures and being asked by candidates to support them in her speeches (shown in Fahs and Wah’s reading when Greeley and Wilson were trying to “lure her into the campaign. Pg??) Dickinson might not have been lecturing for women’s suffrage by why wasn’t she used as an example that women did have the mind to understand politics and be allowed to vote? –Megan Mc. Really a bummer of an ending. When reading about the political atmosphere/discussion from this period, you almost have to expect high levels of partisan and sectional loyalties that frame all arguments and contribute to the legacy of bitterness one associates with Reconstruction – which makes reading about Dickinson and the nomination of Greeley by the Democrats all the more interesting and complicating. What could have made Dickinson hesitant to align herself more with the biggest names in women’s suffrage? –Erin B. "Dickinson, like Grant, was a veteran of the Civil War." Do you think that because the so much of the population considered themselves to be veterans, regardless if they actually fought in the war itself, helped Dickinson use Civil War memory to her advantage through her speeches? - MK == Blight ==</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_2_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 2 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-01-19T17:06:59Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>As mentioned in class, the people at this time did not have the ability to figure out who was who based on DNA when trying to bury them and report to their families. In Faust's reading, somehow James Moore was able to identify 12,912 of the 13,363 bodies of Union soldiers from Andersonville. This just seems remarkable. How long did it take him to figure the identifications of so many men? And how? –Megan Mc. Faust talks about how the national reburial program led to the redefining of the nation. How did the treatment of the dead jeopardize the redefinition of the nation? --MK Do you think that the use of songs in the slaves' memory of the Civil War and Emancipation impact or influence the memory for those who were relatively young at the time? --MK</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_2_Questions/Comments--Tuesday 471A3--Week 2 Questions/Comments--Tuesday 2011-01-17T16:20:55Z

Mnapier: New page: In ''Race and Reunion'' Blight talks about themes of rebirth, reunion, and reconciliation of the nation at the end of the Civil War. Do you think that the southern memory of the Civil War ... <hr /> <div>In ''Race and Reunion'' Blight talks about themes of rebirth, reunion, and reconciliation of the nation at the end of the Civil War. Do you think that the southern memory of the Civil War (in particular the Lost Cause, Jim Crow Laws, etc.) were an attempt to stop the "rebirth" of the nation? --MK Napier In McPherson's "What They Fought For," the issue of slavery was left out in the majority of the letters on both the Union and Confederate sides (pg. 49). However, many soldiers understood the War as fundamentally about slavery instead of reunion after the Emancipation Proclamation. Do you think the absence of slavery in the letters affected the soldiers' memories? --MK Napier</div>

Mnapier https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_1_Questions/Comments--Thursday 471A3--Week 1 Questions/Comments--Thursday 2011-01-12T22:04:12Z

Mnapier: <hr /> <div>If the Race problem was so deeply ingrained in the reasoning behind the civil war, and both sides believed they were fighting for the right causes, how did the Yankee and Confederate soldiers reconcile their differences while the race problem itself continued to grow bigger and bigger?- AJ L. What methods of shaping people's memory of the civil war seemed to be most effective? The monuments that were erected, the books that told the varying history of the war (printed by both north and south), the politics of the time etc... AJ L. How does the collective memory of the Civil War from both the northern and southern perspectives influence the "American Memory" and history of the Civil War? --MK Napier Other than the Lost Cause, what might be some reasons for why the South seems to have heavily dominated the memorializing through monuments, books, movies, etc., the Civil War? --MK Napier</div>

Mnapier
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