McClurken Wiki

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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property ApiMain::$mCommit is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/api/ApiMain.php</b> on line <b>195</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ExplodeIterator::current() should either be compatible with Iterator::current(): mixed, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/StringUtils.php</b> on line <b>571</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ExplodeIterator::next() should either be compatible with Iterator::next(): void, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/StringUtils.php</b> on line <b>585</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ExplodeIterator::key() should either be compatible with Iterator::key(): mixed, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/StringUtils.php</b> on line <b>578</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ExplodeIterator::valid() should either be compatible with Iterator::valid(): bool, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/StringUtils.php</b> on line <b>603</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ExplodeIterator::rewind() should either be compatible with Iterator::rewind(): void, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/StringUtils.php</b> on line <b>553</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property LoadBalancer::$mWriteIndex is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/db/LoadBalancer.php</b> on line <b>59</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ResultWrapper::current() should either be compatible with Iterator::current(): mixed, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/db/DatabaseUtility.php</b> on line <b>186</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ResultWrapper::next() should either be compatible with Iterator::next(): void, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/db/DatabaseUtility.php</b> on line <b>203</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ResultWrapper::key() should either be compatible with Iterator::key(): mixed, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/db/DatabaseUtility.php</b> on line <b>196</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ResultWrapper::valid() should either be compatible with Iterator::valid(): bool, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/db/DatabaseUtility.php</b> on line <b>212</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Return type of ResultWrapper::rewind() should either be compatible with Iterator::rewind(): void, or the #[\ReturnTypeWillChange] attribute should be used to temporarily suppress the notice in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/db/DatabaseUtility.php</b> on line <b>175</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property MessageCache::$mMemc is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/cache/MessageCache.php</b> on line <b>135</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property LoadBalancer::$mWriteIndex is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/db/LoadBalancer.php</b> on line <b>59</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Parser::$mPreprocessorClass is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/parser/Parser.php</b> on line <b>234</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property RequestContext::$recursion is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/context/RequestContext.php</b> on line <b>292</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property PPDStack::$accum is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/parser/Preprocessor_DOM.php</b> on line <b>755</b><br />
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<b>Warning</b>:  preg_match(): Compilation failed: subpattern name must start with a non-digit at offset 8 in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/MagicWord.php</b> on line <b>907</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property ContribsPager::$contribs is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/specials/SpecialContributions.php</b> on line <b>627</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property ContribsPager::$tagFilter is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/specials/SpecialContributions.php</b> on line <b>629</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property ContribsPager::$nsInvert is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/specials/SpecialContributions.php</b> on line <b>630</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property ContribsPager::$associated is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/specials/SpecialContributions.php</b> on line <b>631</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property ContribsPager::$deletedOnly is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/specials/SpecialContributions.php</b> on line <b>633</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property ContribsPager::$topOnly is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/specials/SpecialContributions.php</b> on line <b>634</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContentHandler::$mModelName is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/ContentHandler.php</b> on line <b>402</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property WikitextContent::$mText is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/content/TextContent.php</b> on line <b>51</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mTextId is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>505</b><br />
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<b>Deprecated</b>:  Creation of dynamic property Revision::$mUnpatrolled is deprecated in <b>/home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/Revision.php</b> on line <b>661</b><br />
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		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
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				<updated>2011-12-08T16:18:35Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# Why were so many women willing to join some kind of female organization in the 19th Century (even if not a women’s rights group)?&lt;br /&gt;
# Why was there such divisions between black and white women’s rights groups?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why does she suddenly realize that she has a greater purpose and more potential than she has had in the past? --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The impression I took from this piece is that Amelia Barr said what she said purely out of her own fear of the change that potentially could be brought out of women&amp;#039;s suffrage.  She seems to fear the most the idea of the role of women vanishing as they will take on a more masculine one through their newly acquired political power stating,&amp;quot;women will cease to be women.&amp;quot; Its odd to me that a woman so outspoken and passionate about something would willingly support a way of life that hindered that ability. I wonder how she was viewed by society and if her message could be trusted as it was slightly hypocritical. --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I read this, I didn&amp;#039;t really view it as dismissive. I think that she has found a new sense of freedom,and she wants all other women to realize that they can make a difference outside the home. I agree that often times &amp;quot;stay at home&amp;quot; mothers have negative stereotypes, but could she simply just have been excited for the opportunities she saw in her future?--Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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# Who were most urban working women?&lt;br /&gt;
# What jobs were available for women?  [most – ¼ were domestic servants]&lt;br /&gt;
# What about for black women?&lt;br /&gt;
# What were some of the tensions between working women and working men?&lt;br /&gt;
# Why were the urban working women seen as a problem by other parts of society?&lt;br /&gt;
# In what ways do women workers continue to define themselves (both to themselves and to the larger society) in terms of the cult of domesticity’s definitions of femininity?&lt;br /&gt;
# What did domestic servants (Salmon) say about why they worked in their respective fields?&lt;br /&gt;
# How much can we trust the accounts of the lives of urban working class women when they come from middle-class reformers like Helen Campbell?  Why?&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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It is interesting she describes the shop girls is very interesting to me. The way they act and attempt to imitate the rich women who come into the shops would make one think that these girls had hopes of one day achieving that goal of eliteness.  On the contrary however, most seemed most concerned with finding a husband and getting married. That appears to be the only way some girls think they can move up in life. --Grace C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found to be very interesting about Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s writing were the footnotes, especially the second set. Were foreign women really seen as not knowing &amp;quot;what neatness means&amp;quot; (297)? Why did the the social status of domestic girls fall when the Chinese started working in homes as domestic servants? &amp;quot;Before the introduction of Chinese labor a young girl never lost social caste by doing housework; but since this element came, household service as an occupation has fallen in social scale.&amp;quot; (297)Was this fall because these white women were lowered to the same level as these immigrants who were taking over the position? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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When Isabel Eaton asked the question &amp;#039;&amp;quot;Have you ever tried to do other work?&amp;quot; a large number of domestics replied, &amp;quot;I never go any place I&amp;#039;m not sure of-- won&amp;#039;t give them a chance to refuse me.&amp;quot;&amp;#039; (299)Why were black women so scared to go out and fight for opportunities? Another woman said &amp;quot;The reason I don&amp;#039;t try to teach is because I know I&amp;#039;d have trouble...&amp;quot; (299)Why were these women so willing , it seems to settle for less? There had to have been some opportunities for them outside of domestic work. It is also interesting to think that this problem was in Philadelphia, a free state, during the Civil War. Would it have been easier for black women to get and maintain domestic work in the south? Were they preferred over white women, in the south? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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While I read this report I thought back to class and the discussion about Francis Ellen Watkins Harper who saw black men needing more help and support than any other group.  But clearly after reading &amp;quot;Black Servants in Philadelphia&amp;quot; black women are clearly in need of help as they face both prejudice for both their gender and race when it comes to finding work.  These women would have to fight for jobs that were clearly beneath them and makes me wonder why black leaders such as Watkins ignored their struggle? Why was this clearly less fortunate class not given help in their greatest time of need by the countless organizations who apparently &amp;quot;fought&amp;quot; for their well being? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found this statement particularly interesting: &amp;quot;...[M]en have outgrown their admiration for feminine helplessness and have come to look upon independence as something worth having.&amp;quot; I wonder how true this statement was. In 1891, the concept of separate spheres would still have been very much in play. Does this signal the beginning of the breakdown of separate spheres? --Stefanie L.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.”&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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What surprised me about this passage was how dry her tone was.  When talking about the death of her mother and father and the injuries some workers sustained, she seemed to give off almost no emotion. I can&amp;#039;t tell whether this was simply the way she talked or, as Heather suggested, her words were translated, making them appear less emotional.  One thing you can tell from this passage is just how strong of a person she was.  Even when times were horrible, she kept on pushing forward. I thought it was very interesting when she said a fortune teller told her she would one day be very rich and happy, and that is the reason she kept working so hard. ---Grace C.&lt;br /&gt;
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Althoug Sadie&amp;#039;s discussion of he job is interesting, it is her discussion of her life outside of her job that is mostpigant. In a search for normalcy nd a life outside of the sweatshop, she states that she forces herself to go out after wor instead ofgoing to sleep. She also spends a lot of money n clothes in order to appear as if she beongs in a higher class. She recognizes that through education and bettering herself she can achieve a better and different life. --Hannah W.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T16:18:14Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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# Why were so many women willing to join some kind of female organization in the 19th Century (even if not a women’s rights group)?&lt;br /&gt;
# Why was there such divisions between black and white women’s rights groups?&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why does she suddenly realize that she has a greater purpose and more potential than she has had in the past? --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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The impression I took from this piece is that Amelia Barr said what she said purely out of her own fear of the change that potentially could be brought out of women&amp;#039;s suffrage.  She seems to fear the most the idea of the role of women vanishing as they will take on a more masculine one through their newly acquired political power stating,&amp;quot;women will cease to be women.&amp;quot; Its odd to me that a woman so outspoken and passionate about something would willingly support a way of life that hindered that ability. I wonder how she was viewed by society and if her message could be trusted as it was slightly hypocritical. --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I read this, I didn&amp;#039;t really view it as dismissive. I think that she has found a new sense of freedom,and she wants all other women to realize that they can make a difference outside the home. I agree that often times &amp;quot;stay at home&amp;quot; mothers have negative stereotypes, but could she simply just have been excited for the opportunities she saw in her future?--Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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# Who were most urban working women?&lt;br /&gt;
# What jobs were available for women?  [most – ¼ were domestic servants]&lt;br /&gt;
# What about for black women?&lt;br /&gt;
# What were some of the tensions between working women and working men?&lt;br /&gt;
# Why were the urban working women seen as a problem by other parts of society?&lt;br /&gt;
# In what ways do women workers continue to define themselves (both to themselves and to the larger society) in terms of the cult of domesticity’s definitions of femininity?&lt;br /&gt;
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# What did domestic servants (Salmon) say about why they worked in their respective fields?&lt;br /&gt;
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# How much can we trust the accounts of the lives of urban working class women when they come from middle-class reformers like Helen Campbell?  Why?&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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It is interesting she describes the shop girls is very interesting to me. The way they act and attempt to imitate the rich women who come into the shops would make one think that these girls had hopes of one day achieving that goal of eliteness.  On the contrary however, most seemed most concerned with finding a husband and getting married. That appears to be the only way some girls think they can move up in life. --Grace C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found to be very interesting about Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s writing were the footnotes, especially the second set. Were foreign women really seen as not knowing &amp;quot;what neatness means&amp;quot; (297)? Why did the the social status of domestic girls fall when the Chinese started working in homes as domestic servants? &amp;quot;Before the introduction of Chinese labor a young girl never lost social caste by doing housework; but since this element came, household service as an occupation has fallen in social scale.&amp;quot; (297)Was this fall because these white women were lowered to the same level as these immigrants who were taking over the position? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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When Isabel Eaton asked the question &amp;#039;&amp;quot;Have you ever tried to do other work?&amp;quot; a large number of domestics replied, &amp;quot;I never go any place I&amp;#039;m not sure of-- won&amp;#039;t give them a chance to refuse me.&amp;quot;&amp;#039; (299)Why were black women so scared to go out and fight for opportunities? Another woman said &amp;quot;The reason I don&amp;#039;t try to teach is because I know I&amp;#039;d have trouble...&amp;quot; (299)Why were these women so willing , it seems to settle for less? There had to have been some opportunities for them outside of domestic work. It is also interesting to think that this problem was in Philadelphia, a free state, during the Civil War. Would it have been easier for black women to get and maintain domestic work in the south? Were they preferred over white women, in the south? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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While I read this report I thought back to class and the discussion about Francis Ellen Watkins Harper who saw black men needing more help and support than any other group.  But clearly after reading &amp;quot;Black Servants in Philadelphia&amp;quot; black women are clearly in need of help as they face both prejudice for both their gender and race when it comes to finding work.  These women would have to fight for jobs that were clearly beneath them and makes me wonder why black leaders such as Watkins ignored their struggle? Why was this clearly less fortunate class not given help in their greatest time of need by the countless organizations who apparently &amp;quot;fought&amp;quot; for their well being? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found this statement particularly interesting: &amp;quot;...[M]en have outgrown their admiration for feminine helplessness and have come to look upon independence as something worth having.&amp;quot; I wonder how true this statement was. In 1891, the concept of separate spheres would still have been very much in play. Does this signal the beginning of the breakdown of separate spheres? --Stefanie L.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.”&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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What surprised me about this passage was how dry her tone was.  When talking about the death of her mother and father and the injuries some workers sustained, she seemed to give off almost no emotion. I can&amp;#039;t tell whether this was simply the way she talked or, as Heather suggested, her words were translated, making them appear less emotional.  One thing you can tell from this passage is just how strong of a person she was.  Even when times were horrible, she kept on pushing forward. I thought it was very interesting when she said a fortune teller told her she would one day be very rich and happy, and that is the reason she kept working so hard. ---Grace C.&lt;br /&gt;
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Althoug Sadie&amp;#039;s discussion of he job is interesting, it is her discussion of her life outside of her job that is mostpigant. In a search for normalcy nd a life outside of the sweatshop, she states that she forces herself to go out after wor instead ofgoing to sleep. She also spends a lot of money n clothes in order to appear as if she beongs in a higher class. She recognizes that through education and bettering herself she can achieve a better and different life. --Hannah W.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
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				<updated>2011-12-08T16:17:44Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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# Why were so many women willing to join some kind of female organization in the 19th Century (even if not a women’s rights group)?&lt;br /&gt;
# Why was there such divisions between black and white women’s rights groups?&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why does she suddenly realize that she has a greater purpose and more potential than she has had in the past? --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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The impression I took from this piece is that Amelia Barr said what she said purely out of her own fear of the change that potentially could be brought out of women&amp;#039;s suffrage.  She seems to fear the most the idea of the role of women vanishing as they will take on a more masculine one through their newly acquired political power stating,&amp;quot;women will cease to be women.&amp;quot; Its odd to me that a woman so outspoken and passionate about something would willingly support a way of life that hindered that ability. I wonder how she was viewed by society and if her message could be trusted as it was slightly hypocritical. --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I read this, I didn&amp;#039;t really view it as dismissive. I think that she has found a new sense of freedom,and she wants all other women to realize that they can make a difference outside the home. I agree that often times &amp;quot;stay at home&amp;quot; mothers have negative stereotypes, but could she simply just have been excited for the opportunities she saw in her future?--Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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# Who were most urban working women?&lt;br /&gt;
# What jobs were available for women?  [most – ¼ were domestic servants]&lt;br /&gt;
# What about for black women?&lt;br /&gt;
What were some of the tensions between working women and working men?&lt;br /&gt;
Why were the urban working women seen as a problem by other parts of society?&lt;br /&gt;
In what ways do women workers continue to define themselves (both to themselves and to the larger society) in terms of the cult of domesticity’s definitions of femininity?&lt;br /&gt;
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What did domestic servants (Salmon) say about why they worked in their respective fields?&lt;br /&gt;
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How much can we trust the accounts of the lives of urban working class women when they come from middle-class reformers like Helen Campbell?  Why?&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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It is interesting she describes the shop girls is very interesting to me. The way they act and attempt to imitate the rich women who come into the shops would make one think that these girls had hopes of one day achieving that goal of eliteness.  On the contrary however, most seemed most concerned with finding a husband and getting married. That appears to be the only way some girls think they can move up in life. --Grace C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found to be very interesting about Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s writing were the footnotes, especially the second set. Were foreign women really seen as not knowing &amp;quot;what neatness means&amp;quot; (297)? Why did the the social status of domestic girls fall when the Chinese started working in homes as domestic servants? &amp;quot;Before the introduction of Chinese labor a young girl never lost social caste by doing housework; but since this element came, household service as an occupation has fallen in social scale.&amp;quot; (297)Was this fall because these white women were lowered to the same level as these immigrants who were taking over the position? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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When Isabel Eaton asked the question &amp;#039;&amp;quot;Have you ever tried to do other work?&amp;quot; a large number of domestics replied, &amp;quot;I never go any place I&amp;#039;m not sure of-- won&amp;#039;t give them a chance to refuse me.&amp;quot;&amp;#039; (299)Why were black women so scared to go out and fight for opportunities? Another woman said &amp;quot;The reason I don&amp;#039;t try to teach is because I know I&amp;#039;d have trouble...&amp;quot; (299)Why were these women so willing , it seems to settle for less? There had to have been some opportunities for them outside of domestic work. It is also interesting to think that this problem was in Philadelphia, a free state, during the Civil War. Would it have been easier for black women to get and maintain domestic work in the south? Were they preferred over white women, in the south? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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While I read this report I thought back to class and the discussion about Francis Ellen Watkins Harper who saw black men needing more help and support than any other group.  But clearly after reading &amp;quot;Black Servants in Philadelphia&amp;quot; black women are clearly in need of help as they face both prejudice for both their gender and race when it comes to finding work.  These women would have to fight for jobs that were clearly beneath them and makes me wonder why black leaders such as Watkins ignored their struggle? Why was this clearly less fortunate class not given help in their greatest time of need by the countless organizations who apparently &amp;quot;fought&amp;quot; for their well being? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found this statement particularly interesting: &amp;quot;...[M]en have outgrown their admiration for feminine helplessness and have come to look upon independence as something worth having.&amp;quot; I wonder how true this statement was. In 1891, the concept of separate spheres would still have been very much in play. Does this signal the beginning of the breakdown of separate spheres? --Stefanie L.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.”&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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What surprised me about this passage was how dry her tone was.  When talking about the death of her mother and father and the injuries some workers sustained, she seemed to give off almost no emotion. I can&amp;#039;t tell whether this was simply the way she talked or, as Heather suggested, her words were translated, making them appear less emotional.  One thing you can tell from this passage is just how strong of a person she was.  Even when times were horrible, she kept on pushing forward. I thought it was very interesting when she said a fortune teller told her she would one day be very rich and happy, and that is the reason she kept working so hard. ---Grace C.&lt;br /&gt;
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Althoug Sadie&amp;#039;s discussion of he job is interesting, it is her discussion of her life outside of her job that is mostpigant. In a search for normalcy nd a life outside of the sweatshop, she states that she forces herself to go out after wor instead ofgoing to sleep. She also spends a lot of money n clothes in order to appear as if she beongs in a higher class. She recognizes that through education and bettering herself she can achieve a better and different life. --Hannah W.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T16:16:57Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why does she suddenly realize that she has a greater purpose and more potential than she has had in the past? --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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The impression I took from this piece is that Amelia Barr said what she said purely out of her own fear of the change that potentially could be brought out of women&amp;#039;s suffrage.  She seems to fear the most the idea of the role of women vanishing as they will take on a more masculine one through their newly acquired political power stating,&amp;quot;women will cease to be women.&amp;quot; Its odd to me that a woman so outspoken and passionate about something would willingly support a way of life that hindered that ability. I wonder how she was viewed by society and if her message could be trusted as it was slightly hypocritical. --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I read this, I didn&amp;#039;t really view it as dismissive. I think that she has found a new sense of freedom,and she wants all other women to realize that they can make a difference outside the home. I agree that often times &amp;quot;stay at home&amp;quot; mothers have negative stereotypes, but could she simply just have been excited for the opportunities she saw in her future?--Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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# Who were most urban working women?&lt;br /&gt;
# What jobs were available for women?  [most – ¼ were domestic servants]&lt;br /&gt;
# What about for black women?&lt;br /&gt;
What were some of the tensions between working women and working men?&lt;br /&gt;
Why were the urban working women seen as a problem by other parts of society?&lt;br /&gt;
In what ways do women workers continue to define themselves (both to themselves and to the larger society) in terms of the cult of domesticity’s definitions of femininity?&lt;br /&gt;
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What did domestic servants (Salmon) say about why they worked in their respective fields?&lt;br /&gt;
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How much can we trust the accounts of the lives of urban working class women when they come from middle-class reformers like Helen Campbell?  Why?&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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It is interesting she describes the shop girls is very interesting to me. The way they act and attempt to imitate the rich women who come into the shops would make one think that these girls had hopes of one day achieving that goal of eliteness.  On the contrary however, most seemed most concerned with finding a husband and getting married. That appears to be the only way some girls think they can move up in life. --Grace C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found to be very interesting about Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s writing were the footnotes, especially the second set. Were foreign women really seen as not knowing &amp;quot;what neatness means&amp;quot; (297)? Why did the the social status of domestic girls fall when the Chinese started working in homes as domestic servants? &amp;quot;Before the introduction of Chinese labor a young girl never lost social caste by doing housework; but since this element came, household service as an occupation has fallen in social scale.&amp;quot; (297)Was this fall because these white women were lowered to the same level as these immigrants who were taking over the position? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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When Isabel Eaton asked the question &amp;#039;&amp;quot;Have you ever tried to do other work?&amp;quot; a large number of domestics replied, &amp;quot;I never go any place I&amp;#039;m not sure of-- won&amp;#039;t give them a chance to refuse me.&amp;quot;&amp;#039; (299)Why were black women so scared to go out and fight for opportunities? Another woman said &amp;quot;The reason I don&amp;#039;t try to teach is because I know I&amp;#039;d have trouble...&amp;quot; (299)Why were these women so willing , it seems to settle for less? There had to have been some opportunities for them outside of domestic work. It is also interesting to think that this problem was in Philadelphia, a free state, during the Civil War. Would it have been easier for black women to get and maintain domestic work in the south? Were they preferred over white women, in the south? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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While I read this report I thought back to class and the discussion about Francis Ellen Watkins Harper who saw black men needing more help and support than any other group.  But clearly after reading &amp;quot;Black Servants in Philadelphia&amp;quot; black women are clearly in need of help as they face both prejudice for both their gender and race when it comes to finding work.  These women would have to fight for jobs that were clearly beneath them and makes me wonder why black leaders such as Watkins ignored their struggle? Why was this clearly less fortunate class not given help in their greatest time of need by the countless organizations who apparently &amp;quot;fought&amp;quot; for their well being? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found this statement particularly interesting: &amp;quot;...[M]en have outgrown their admiration for feminine helplessness and have come to look upon independence as something worth having.&amp;quot; I wonder how true this statement was. In 1891, the concept of separate spheres would still have been very much in play. Does this signal the beginning of the breakdown of separate spheres? --Stefanie L.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.”&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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What surprised me about this passage was how dry her tone was.  When talking about the death of her mother and father and the injuries some workers sustained, she seemed to give off almost no emotion. I can&amp;#039;t tell whether this was simply the way she talked or, as Heather suggested, her words were translated, making them appear less emotional.  One thing you can tell from this passage is just how strong of a person she was.  Even when times were horrible, she kept on pushing forward. I thought it was very interesting when she said a fortune teller told her she would one day be very rich and happy, and that is the reason she kept working so hard. ---Grace C.&lt;br /&gt;
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Althoug Sadie&amp;#039;s discussion of he job is interesting, it is her discussion of her life outside of her job that is mostpigant. In a search for normalcy nd a life outside of the sweatshop, she states that she forces herself to go out after wor instead ofgoing to sleep. She also spends a lot of money n clothes in order to appear as if she beongs in a higher class. She recognizes that through education and bettering herself she can achieve a better and different life. --Hannah W.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T13:37:34Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.”&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T13:36:10Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.” Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T13:35:16Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor? Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.” Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T13:33:31Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301). She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family. It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor? Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.” Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T13:31:36Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices. The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women. This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;. This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301). She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family. It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor? Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.” Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T13:29:09Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found Americus quite amusing, but Ella was more persuasive as she was more serious about the topic. Americus seems to imply that men are hopeless without their women behind them; also, why would anyone want to be equal to those ruffian, snoring men. She doesn’t seem to understand what many women are asking for while Ella admits that many women are not in favor of suffrage. She says that these women do not know the “the sorrows of oppression which other females have to contend with.” She also believes that marriage has been instilled in the minds of women; that she should reach for nothing higher than to marry. Throughout this class, I continually wondered how many women married horrible me for the security, “many marry for a home when they cannot give their heart.”--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420). The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment. According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices. The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women. This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;. This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301). She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family. It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I did not know that the Knights of Labor was a group that supported women’s rights, especially so far as to promote equal pay for equal work. I wondered if the group she was speaking to (a gathering of women from middle-class women’s organizations) would be interested in equal pay. Weren’t their aims more varied and unconcerned with labor? Another thing that I found interesting in this speech was that Leonora says that the organization wants to give protection to every woman whether they are a part of the K of L or not, “no matter her nationality, her creed, her color, or her position in life.” It was interesting that she mentions race as well as nationality, I wonder how many women in the audience were of a different race or nationality.--Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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Reading about Sadie Frowne, I was surprised at how nonchalantly she would speak about getting injured at work. “We all have accidents like that. Where the needle goes through the nail it makes a sore finger, or where it splinters a bone it does much harm. Sometimes a finger has to come off.” Other than her casual tone about injury, she reminded me of someone I would meet nowadays. Working, going to night school, shopping and hanging out with her boyfriend.--Emma C.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T11:25:54Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women. Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294). Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420). The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment. According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices. The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women. This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;. This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301). She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family. It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T11:25:15Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her. I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children. She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women. Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294). Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420). The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment. According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices. The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women. This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;. This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301). She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family. It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T11:23:05Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea? -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;.  However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear. I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her. I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children. She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women. Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294). Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420). The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment. According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices. The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women. This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;. This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301). She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family. It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-08T11:21:09Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men [Stanton was] married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA. Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea? -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;.  However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear. I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her. I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children. She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women. Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294). Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420). The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment. According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices. The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women. This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;. This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301). She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family. It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
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		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
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				<updated>2011-12-08T11:18:41Z</updated>
		
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men both of these women were married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.   &lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA. Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea? -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;.  However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear. I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her. I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children. She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women. Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294). Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420). The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment. According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices. The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women. This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;. This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301). She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family. It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
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		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I enjoyed this piece.  At first she starts off as most women do, relying on the men in their life for their direction.  But then realizing as she did &amp;quot;in an unexpected hour a new light came to me, showing me a world of thought and of character quite beyond the limits within which I had hitherto been content to abide.&amp;quot; (358) What a revelation this must have been for her and perhaps the same type of feeling for other women of the time to realize that they have a potential, greater purpose. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage.  Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt.  It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men both of these women were married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.   &lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What a moving speech! I was struck by the phrase at the beginning, where she says that, as a black woman, she couldn&amp;#039;t feel like she was missing the rights white women talked about, because she had so much else to deal with because of her race. It wasn&amp;#039;t until gender became an important issue in her life with her husband&amp;#039;s death that she thought about gender inequality in the law. The argument about whether racism or sexism is a more pressing concern still goes on in contemporary feminism, and lots of people don&amp;#039;t like to talk about it; I can&amp;#039;t imagine this speech was received very well! Since she worked against racism first, I wonder how she became so prominent as to be invited to speak alongside Anthony and Stanton before this, and if she was as popular after. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree, this speech was amazing. In class, I found myself agreeing more with the side of Stanton and Anthony. I believed that by women getting a vote, things could be solved. However, after reading this speech, I have found that Harper convinced me to believe the side of the AWSA. Some things that I found particularly striking in this speech was:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;the nation shall be so color blind, as to know no man by the color of his skin or the curl of his hair. It will then have no privileged class, trampling upon and outraging the unprivileged class, but will be then one great privileged nation, whose privilege will be to produce the loftiest manhood and womanhood that humanity can attain.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
The only problem with this is that there were unprivileged white classes who felt limited. &lt;br /&gt;
One other thing I found interesting was her comment, &amp;quot;the indifferent will vote on the strongest side of the question, with the winning party.&amp;quot; I found this especially convincing, and to be a very good point. I think that she was right about that. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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When I was reading this speech, I was trying to understand her perspective more.  When we were discussing this in class, I agree with Mary Beth, I was agreeing with Stanton and Anthony more and I am not saying that after reading this speech that I suddenly agree with her but I am able to understand her more. I think she is right that giving women the right to vote would not fix the problems right away but I don’t think that her approach would fix the problem either. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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After reading Harper&amp;#039;s speech, I could not help but feel for her and her situation.  You most often hear that the men die, because of war, sickness, etc. When women die during this time it was like they were not there and the men go on with life.  Like she said in her speech &amp;quot;how different would have been the result! By this time he would have had another wife, it is likely; and no administrator would have gone into his house, broken up his home, and sold his bed, and taken away his means of support.&amp;quot; (Woloch, 363-364)  I was sitting there imagining both scenarios.  No wonder why women had to go to work outside the home.  I would also think it would be more difficult for a black women to get work.  How could these people do this to her?  I think the answer is, because she had very little rights. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found to be interesting about this piece was the earnest belief Barr has that women are not competent enough to be politicians. She claims women are flip-floppers and would need to learn to be men to be successful. She also believed that women could have political control through the husband and influence political decisions that way. Since she wrote this in 1896, closer to the point of suffrage for women, I wonder how much of the female populace held an opinion like Barr. Was suffrage still unpopular this late in the ninteenth century? Or were more women open to this idea? -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I read this piece wondering what kind of woman Amelia Barr thought she was. Did she think that she was irrational and incapable? Does she genuinely believe that she, herself, is a &amp;quot;tool&amp;quot;? I imagine that the answer might have been yes, but this strikes me as particularly sad, that she would have been taught to feel this way about herself and other women. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I don&amp;#039;t feel that Amelia really looked upon herself as irrational or incapable, I think she was just pointing fingers at those who challenged the &amp;quot;sphere&amp;quot;.  However, I wonder if she even took into consideration if she was ever in a position where she needed to work, would she? Or would she just be a helpless woman looked down upon for losing her status.  I found myself laughing when she mentioned being &amp;quot;left adrift in the world without helpers and protectors.&amp;quot; (369) I envisioned her lying in the street trying to keep herself from fainting...poor dear. I thought men weren&amp;#039;t much &amp;quot;help&amp;quot; during this time! Kidding, that last part was a joke :) --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Gilman&amp;#039;s argument - that women should be able to work outside the home so they can do more specialized labor and further progress - was surprising, and honestly had me disagreeing with her. I get what she&amp;#039;s saying that women need not be in the home for the family to survive and be loved and cared for, but I actually felt she didn&amp;#039;t give housewives near enough credit for both the value of the actual labor they do and the emotional labor of raising their children. She&amp;#039;s right that they can do that while still working outside the home, but I think the dismissive way she goes about suggesting women leave the home for the good of society would have been very off-putting to women of the time who valued and enjoyed the work they did in the home, even if that wasn&amp;#039;t all they wanted to do. --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;While reading the passages about women doing clerical work, I wondered whether men preferred to have women in their office in order to extend patriarchy into the work place.  Did employers like having women employees because they had more authority as a boss over women than men?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the passages we learned that many black women were let go because of their race. I wonder why the white managers/owners did not hire the black workers. Wouldn&amp;#039;t they get paid a lesser amount, therefore being a smarter financial move?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s acknowledgement of horrible conditions in these factories seems to not deter women from continuing to line up for these jobs and jump on any opportunity to acquire the position. It is obvious that poverty can drive people to do things out of desperation and a need to survive. However, there is still a deep-rooted desire in these poor women to join the ranks of wealthy women. Campbell writes: &amp;quot;From her post behind the counter the shop-girl examines every detail of costume, every air and grace of the women she so often despises, even when longing most to be one of them&amp;quot; (294). Marriage for these poor women was viewed as an escape from the harsh reality of poverty they were trapped in. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Campbell&amp;#039;s description of the shop girls imitating their rich customers is significant to the culture of a shop girl aspiring for a better social class and life. The job of &amp;quot;sales lady&amp;quot; is coveted among working women because the occupation is dreamed as a position to elevate themselves socially.  Their jobs as shop girls, allow them to see the upper middle class elite lifestyles. While imitating their customers, the shop girls hope that their facade will allow them to become part of the upper middle class. Campbell writes that these imitations, such as, &amp;quot;gilt rings, bracelets and bangles, frizzes,&amp;quot;allow the shop girls to &amp;quot;stimulate the life daily paraded before her and most passionately desired&amp;quot; (415).-- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it fascinating that a factory worker included in her list of reasons for NOT being a housekeeper that she wanted to be a good housekeeper of her own home, once she was married. The idea that she would be so disappointed by the house she lived in that she wouldn&amp;#039;t want to clean it or cook anything that wasn&amp;#039;t a steak in a kitchen that wasn&amp;#039;t enormous was surprising to me. I would have assumed that women who were particularly focused on their own roles in the housekeeping and married-life process (which was admittedly many, if not most, women) would want experience with the nicer tools and technologies so that they would be more able to utilize second-tier tools and products in their own homes in the most effective way possible. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Lucy Maynard Salmon&amp;#039;s study of domestic service demonstrates the reasons why few women choose to work as house servants. The chart lists employees&amp;#039; answers to &amp;quot;What reasons can you give why more women do not choose housework as a regular employment?&amp;quot; (419-420). The most prominent answer from domestics is &amp;quot;Pride, social condition, and unwillingness to be called servants.&amp;quot; Looking at this answer makes me think that women of this time have more opportunities outside of domestic servitude that are less demeaning. For example, in class we discussed the emergence of other occupations, such as, teaching, nursing, and secretarial work. These jobs grant women with more freedom than domestic servitude through promotions, more free time, or stable working hours. In addition, the quote from a young factory operative points out reasons that I did not think about or necessarily agree with, but her answer is still interesting. She states that, &amp;quot;Then I think shop or factory girls make the best wive... The domestic after she gets married gets careless. She don&amp;#039;t take the pride in her home that the shop girl does. She has lived in such fine houses that her small tenement has no beauty for her after the first glow of married life is over&amp;quot; (423). First, this quote resembles Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece on shop girls who imitate their upper class clients. Since these women work close to the upper class they see and try to imitate that lifestyle. Second, its shows a divide among women workers. There are distinct groups of female workers, and these women judge each other for their occupations. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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While Lucy Maynard Salmon discusses all the reasons why domestic work is not ideal, I thought of two reasons why it may be preferred over factory work. In Helen Campbell&amp;#039;s piece, she argues that if ever a position open up, it would quickly get filled and hundreds and thousands of women were in line for factory work. However, from Salmon&amp;#039;s piece, there doesn&amp;#039;t seem to be many women who would pick domestic jobs over factory. This would ensure for a longer job position. Granted, it isn&amp;#039;t the best and many workers were not looking for permanent positions, it did provide stability. Secondly, the domestic job (in regards to Salmon&amp;#039;s piece)offered a less dangerous work environment. According to Campbell&amp;#039;s writing, some factory women picked diseases and got really sick. This is less likely than in the domestic work. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The research done by Isabel Eaton brings into the mix the experiences of black women--an overlooked subset. Eaton points out that black women are &amp;quot;ambitious&amp;quot; and desire for upward social mobility (299). Even these women who were trained in specific skills (like teaching) still had to revert to domestic roles because of prejudices. The experience of a black woman in the late 19th century is quite different than that of white women. This makes me wish that the main historical narrative included not only more about the women in America, but also the lives and experiences of the African-American women. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Eaton&amp;#039;s study, she looks at the impact of race in domestic servitude. She notices that black servants had different struggles than white servants. One of the most prominent struggles, was that black servants are black, and employees did not hire them. In one quote a black domestic said, &amp;quot;If the mistresses has bad luck with one colored girl they won&amp;#039;t never have another. They think all colored is a like&amp;quot; (426). Unlike the white women in Salmon&amp;#039;s study who did want to work as domestics because of long hours, lack of dignity, and hard work, the black domestics had no other opportunities for employment. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many of the points made in Eaton&amp;#039;s study were pretty familiar, but I had not really thought about the idea that many black women would avoid domestic work because it &amp;quot;savors of slavery&amp;quot;. This makes perfect sense, that women would not want to end up doing voluntarily what women of their race had been forced to do for so long. It would seem particularly degrading, in a different way than it would to white girls, to be working as a servant and basically just going back to what their employers might think of as their natural place and all they were capable of. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it surprising that light-skinned women who had worked for an extended period of time for an employer would still be fired when it came out that they were black. It seems to me that since there were those preconceptions about black women being less efficient and less desirable workers than white women, it would no longer apply after the employer had had that employee for an extended period of time, because that belief/idea would already have been either debunked (and therefore not an issue) or somehow supported (in which case the servant would have been fired already) BEFORE the servant&amp;#039;s race became an issue. It seems to me that clinging to preconceptions that have already been disproven is highly illogical, and yet somehow this huge departure from logic still took place. --Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading made me wonder about black owned businesses. Were there any emerging at this time in the north maybe? &lt;br /&gt;
Also, in terms of payment, would black women get paid lower than white women? And if so, wouldn&amp;#039;t it be economically feasible to keep the black worker around? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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The Office Clerk describes late-nineteeth-century office workers. Lanza states that women are much preferred than men. &amp;quot;Women are much to be preferred for a number of reasons. They are capable and industrious, and, so far as my personal experience goes, absolutely reliable&amp;quot; (301). She said that men make up excuses to get out of working and the women were there everything from January to December. One thing that interested me was the statement about not employing a woman unless she lives at home with her family. It was also said that they must be dressed nicely. Perhaps this was the reason they were to live at home with their parents, to be able to afford nice clothes? Sounds dumb, but that&amp;#039;s all I could think of as a reason. I was a bit confused about this. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I also found it interesting that these businesses or companies would not hire these women unless they lived with their families.  I like Ashley was confused and wondered if they meant women who lived with their parents or their husbands and children or both?  I also thought it was interesting that the employers were having problems with men in the jobs.  Wasn&amp;#039;t this a time of work when you can and where you can and don&amp;#039;t complain?  I understand why the women were hired, they were stable and willing to work.  Then I think about the how the men were off fighting and maybe some of the men thought that this work was beneath them anyway.--- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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Like Pam, I was also surprised that women were preferred over men? Some of the reasons they give are practical, but at the same time, it&amp;#039;s surprising that the men call off for numerous reasons, and the women work harder. I wonder if it was a sense of comfort for the men to know they have a better chance of a longer career at this. I was also curious as to why the men did not like their jobs too much. I felt that the women were diligent workers and they did so because they had no other option prior to that, and even with the other women working on a factory, they are willing to do this job! --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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To be honest, I thought this was going to be a humorous read when I began reading the first paragraph. What kind of people have a secret labor organization?! Sounds pretty silly to me. I thought these people were going to be lazy when I read &amp;quot;...it was believed, did no productive work&amp;quot; (303) (referring to the people they welcomed into the organization). As I read on I learned just the opposite. Barry organized funds to give women money who were sick and could not work, or to women who experienced death. She supplied women who were in the Knights of Labor, as well as women who were not. She also took children out of the factories and educated them. She was definitely a respectably and honorable woman, even though she admitted the organization made plenty of mistakes. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found interesting about Sadie Frome&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;Story of a Sweatshop girl&amp;quot; was her independence. From this account, one can assume she got some form of education (did she write this piece or did someone transcribe this for her?), and was conscious enough of her situation to save money. What I especially loved about this piece was her relationship with Henry. Even though he kept insisting that he wanted to get married, she still felt it was necessary to wait awhile, just for the sake of being more mature when they married. By her account, their relationship was well advanced that they could have gotten married and it would have been appropriate, but she still decided to hold off, but continue dating. The relationship Sadie and Henry had just seemed so modern to me! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought that this was very interesting.  She was very intelligent and independent and wanted to take advantage to everything that the New World had to offer. She did not want to settle by getting married, but rather continue to earn her own way. She bettered herself by going to night classes and she still went out at night after work to “get air” This piece was very different than most material you read from this era because you saw a positive outcome rather than the “I came to America and I work in a sweat shop for the rest of my life”. I loved this piece. –Kayle P&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 15 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_15_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-07T15:56:27Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 13, Urban Wage Earners ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Helen Campbell, 1893, study on NY wage laborers, “Shop Girls and Piece Workers” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Shop Girls and Piece Workers by Helen Campbell, she describes both the lives shop girls and women workers in trades. She describes the Shop Girls as viewing stores as &amp;quot;the high road to fortune.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they have &amp;quot;no thought of permanence&amp;quot; for themselves and, rather, expect to marry. These women also try to imitate their rich customers. On the other hand, women in trades work because &amp;quot;there is no one to earn for them,&amp;quot; as they are widows, have drunken husbands who demand support themselves, or have children they must take care of. These two sets of women would have wildly different points of view on what is important to them. This idea is important because the document is from 1893, a time of women&amp;#039;s rights movements. These groups of women&amp;#039;s would likely not have the same ideals concerning women&amp;#039;s rights, based on why they earn livings. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Lucy Maynard Salmon, 1897, Vassar Historian who studied domestic service ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Isabel Eaton, 1899, research on black servants in Philadelphia ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Lanza, 1891, defends the female office clerk in NY ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the Office Clerk by Clara Lanza, she describes women as going out into the business place to work as clerks. This led the women to see themselves as &amp;quot;pioneers in the business world,&amp;quot; because they were moving out of the domestic sphere and having an active role outside of the home. It is interesting because towards the end of the document, it is stated that &amp;quot;the girls make good wives,&amp;quot; something associated with the domestic sphere. She asserts that it is because men now admire independence, but it is difficult to determine whether that is true. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Leonara Barry, on what the Knights of Labor are doing for women, 1888 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sadie Frome, 1902, “Story of a Sweatshop Girl” ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought this document was enlightening.  The woman writing was clearly a woman who was educated and who had ambition which is so interesting to read about in her own words.  Even though the amount of money she makes is only double what she pays in rent each month (which she shares an apartment in order to afford it)she still manages to save up money.  I also thought it was interesting to see the line &amp;quot;But tho I belong to the Union I am not a Socialist or Anarchist&amp;quot; (page 311) because it means that the ideology and fear of being associated with these two groups existed before the red scares that happened later.  She talks so supportively of the Union yet is afraid to be associated with the good of the Union for being socialist or anarchist.  The not-wanting-to-get-married aspect at the end of the document was pretty interesting as well.  I wish she would have explained more about this desire and why. I can&amp;#039;t help but wonder if she did ever marry Henry and what became of the money which she had managed to save.  --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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== Overarching questions about Woloch, Chapter 16, Woman Suffrage/Women’s Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Julia Ward Howe, 1899, Reminiscences ==&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Stanton and Anthony, 1882, piece in History of Woman Suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I believe this article offers insight into the tension between those who fought for black male suffrage and those who fought for female suffrage.  Obviously these women feel betrayed by the men who supposedly were interested in helping gain equality for all. &amp;quot;But with arms folded, Greeley, Curtis, Tilton, Beecher, Higginson, Phillips, Garrison, Frederick Douglass, all calmly watched the struggle from afar, and when defeat came to both propositions, no consoling words were offered for woman&amp;#039;s loss, but the women who spoke in the campaign were reproached for having &amp;#039;killed negro suffrage.&amp;#039;&amp;quot; (page 360-361). It was really bold of these women to directly call out the men they believed were acting against them, even unlady like, but I think it reflects the hurt that these women felt.  It&amp;#039;s easy to reflect upon society and think that women who chose to fight for woman&amp;#039;s rights over black rights were racist, but it&amp;#039;s also important to see that these women were wounded and hurt by people who pledged allegiance to acquiring woman&amp;#039;s rights before abolition and broke that promise as soon as their original goal was reached and women were no longer needed.  This article reads almost like a sibling rivalry and it would be interesting to see the response of the men whose names are listed above.  It&amp;#039;s easy to write off an act as racist, sexist or bigoted, but no act, value or speak has intrinsic value without the context of it&amp;#039;s situation. I also would like to point out that even though Anthony and Stanton urge women to no longer depend on men both of these women were married and Stanton left the activist lifestyle to play the mother/wife role before returning to her work.  These actions do not reflect women who reject interaction and dependence upon men.  It is important to understand context of expressions before interpreting them.  Otherwise these women would be portrayed as man-hating misers by their rejection of male help when they simply wished to state that a woman should not rely on a man to fight her battles for her. --Sara S.   &lt;br /&gt;
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== Frances Ellen (Watkins) Harper, 1866 Woman’s Rights convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Shoe women of Lynn, MA, 1874 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Amelia Barr, (novelist and married) 1896, Speaks out against female suffrage ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Anna Garlin Spencer, 1898, response to anti-suffrage attacks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Charlotte Perkins Gilman, 20th Century feminist, 1903, The Home ==&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 13-14 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-01T14:17:06Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Ella Gertrude Clanton Thomas, January 1865 */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching or comparative questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that was a little surprising was the number of slave accounts where they did not find out that they were freed from their masters. This happened in Clarissa Burdett&amp;#039;s account (she just ran away), Fanny Berry&amp;#039;s, and Katie Darling&amp;#039;s. It&amp;#039;s not necessarily surprising that white owners would try to pull that off, but I am wondering what reasons there were for the owners to be able to get away with keeping their slaves for an extended period of time. Was it geographical?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read multiple times of women having problems with farm equipment, the latest being &amp;quot;Loss of male labor, crumbling equipment...&amp;quot; (Woloch 264) It is not in an actual account of the time but in the Woloch&amp;#039;s overview of the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;A Wartime Mistress.&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Why do we see this mentioned so often with women in the South but not the North?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louisa May Alcott, Hospital Sketches, 1862-1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read &amp;quot;Hospital Sketches&amp;quot; in it&amp;#039;s entirety a couple of times and also Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary, and I still am not entirely in agreement that women, as nurses, did not perform medical tasks at all. I do agree that the job was very different from today, when nurses receive medical training, but both Alcott&amp;#039;s book and Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary say that they provided more than just emotional comfort. Again, not like what we see today, but not entirely hands-off, either. I have to admit, having read so much more in-depth than just this one excerpt from her diary, I feel like there&amp;#039;s a lot of information about the role of nurses that&amp;#039;s being left out.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s description of being a Union nurse, it is apparent that women are new to the field of nursing, and even then, their definition of nursing is not what it is today. Alcott writes, &amp;quot;I find real pleasure in comforting, tending, and cheering these poor souls who seem to love me, to feel my sympathy though unspoken, and acknowledge my hearty good-will, in spite of the ignorance, awkwardness, and bashfulness which I cannot help showing in so new and trying a situation.&amp;quot; Alcott&amp;#039;s main role was to keep up the spirits of the men, not doing any actual medical aide. Furthermore, she describeds fulfilling these duties with awkwardness and bashfulness. This is likely because ladies were supposed to be in the home, and if they are out of the home they are certainly not supposed to be dealing with men they are not married to. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s account, I found it interesting to see the change in gender norms for women. While women were now allowed to work outside the house and in Alcott&amp;#039;s case even encouraged, &amp;quot;Shall I stay, Mother?...No, go! and the Lord be with you!&amp;quot; (258). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Her mother encouraged her to go and participate, eventhough she would have been hundreds of miles away, but at the same time, her duties while being a nurse, were still part of the expectation for women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She cooked, and cared for the wounded and sick in a &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; manner, she wrote letters for them rather than actually do any medical treatment. Even though women had similar tasks while being away from the house, they slightly improved the norms for women by getting society to see them as not just an asset to the household. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What makes Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Hospital Sketches&amp;#039;&amp;#039; so valuable to historians today is both the personal and detailed account she provides. Nursing during the Civil War is almost completely different from the modern conception of nursing and was more about bringing emotional comfort to the patients versus physical comfort. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What is amazing about Alcott&amp;#039;s job is the emotional strength she needed to complete her job effectively.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Not many people, men or women, could handle a job which confronts death of a daily basis and the fact that she knew the risks she was putting herself in to do this job shows not only what a great person Alcott was, but how strong all nurses were at this time. --Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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While describing the men she is taking care of, Alcott betrays her understanding of societal gender norms. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In her notes from January of 1863, she mentions a man named John Sulie, who is uncommonly kind and gentle, with &amp;quot;a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s, a nature fresh and frank as any child&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot; (259) Those comparisons imply that a typical man was not expected to be warm- or tender-hearted, and also not frank. That is to say, the average man was cold- or steely-hearted and somewhat devious or deceptive--not a particularly ringing endorsement of men; in a later instance, a doctor caring for Alcott when she falls ill is described as &amp;quot;a motherly little man,&amp;quot; solely because he checks up on Alcott and fusses over her in a matter than seems, apparently, feminine. Additionally, her concerns about looking motherly (and her apparent discomfort when he feels she&amp;#039;s being viewed in a sexualized way by a man she cares for her in December) reinforce her understanding--and Dix&amp;#039;s strong conviction--about the importance of nurses as maternal figures.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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The thing that I found most interesting in this particular passage was Alcott&amp;#039;s definition of gender norms throughout the entire thing. She begins this by hoping that she acts &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; to the patients (pg 259, 2nd paragraph).  However, a couple paragraphs later she distinguishes the types of men by their gendered qualities. For instance, she says, &amp;quot;the men are docile,respectful, and affectionate, with but few exceptions; truly lovable and manly many of them.&amp;quot; She goes on: &amp;quot;. . . a Virginia blacksmith, is the prince of patients. . . a common man in education and condition, to me is all I could expect from the first gentleman in the land. Under his plain speech and unpolished manner I seem to see a noble character, a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot;  This blacksmith was described by both his manliness and also his womanly character--his tender heart. Later, Alcott describes a man as &amp;quot;patient as a woman.&amp;quot; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It is interesting to me that she uses all of these gendered characterizations to describe her patients and also the people who worked in the ward with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alcott reveals a noteworthy level of determination in her decision to be a nurse. She recognizes the reality that death could possibly be impending; however, she sees the need in the hospital and decides to go for it. She mentions the word &amp;quot;comfort&amp;quot; a few times in referencing her role as a comforter of these sick and dying men. When Alcott herself is taken ill, she describes it in close detail and gives us a glimpse into the seriousness of diseases back then and the fear they could cause. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Livermore, [Northern women on farm during war], 1890 -- Woloch and Major Problems readings. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I rather enjoyed this reading.  Mary describes her initial reaction of women in the fields &amp;quot;At first, it displeased me, and I turned away in aversion&amp;quot; (262) yet her curiosity got the best of her.  When her carriage had to stop she approached these women and asked them about their work.  Instead of completely ignoring and dismissing the women she instead questions them, getting first hand insight to why they would be involved in work for men.  This made me think that even though she may not have approved at first, she probably understood and accepted the practice more. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was cool when she discussed how great of a job the women did in the field. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;By and by, I observed how skillfully they drove the horses round and round the wheat-field&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;although they did not keep up with the men, their work was done with more precision and nicety, and their sheaves had an artistic finish that lacked made by men&amp;quot; (262)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. It goes to show that they truly cared about doing the work and perhaps these women weren&amp;#039;t bitter about their husbands not being there to do the work. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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Wow, Mary Livermore writes beautifully. I was impressed by the scale of the efforts she describes, like the 1,000 shirts a day made in Boston - imagine the dedication that would be needed to organize that so quickly and at such a grand scale without Facebook! I also was struck by the seriousness she assigns to things women did like ignoring fashion. That sounds like such a small thing now, but with the amount of fabric needed for bandages and uniforms and the amount of fabric a new dress would have taken at the time, I suppose that actually would have been a significant contribution in and of itself. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think this has been my favorite reading of the semester. There is so much interesting information. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The description of the work clothes that the women were wearing is fantastic, you do not see women dressed like that in photographs of the time period, so it is neat to have the description. Also, I think it was not so much about not following the fashion as it was about common sense. I imagine it would be very hard to plow a field while wearing hoops.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I also imagine the women still had a best dress to wear on Sundays and to other nice events and that they did wear hoops with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also found some of her descriptions very powerful and emotionally striking. &amp;quot;It came very hard on us to let the boys go, but we felt we&amp;#039;d no right to hinder&amp;#039;em. The country needed&amp;#039;em more&amp;#039;n we.&amp;quot; (263) It shows how much patriotism these women had.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
I also loved the when the one girl told &amp;quot;For during the last war in Germany men were so scarce that she had to work three years in a blacksmith&amp;#039;s shop.&amp;quot; (263) Was this really true? Would the German people really have accepted this of their women? Were women in Germany treated differently, given more freedom than American women? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louticia Jackson’s letter in 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louticia Jackson&amp;#039;s letter to her son, she mentions how she took care of one of her slaves, Willes.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Eventhough we&amp;#039;ve learned that slaves are seen as property and therefore any punishment can&amp;#039;t be too harsh because it would then effect the work of the investment. I found it really surprising the way she took care of Willes when he was sick &amp;quot;...he took the fever immediately after wchich lasted some 5 or 6 weeks in which time i attended him closely day and night, bathed and rubbed him with my own hands fearing it would not be faithfully done [otherwise]&amp;quot; (265). Instead of having another female slave take care of Willes, she took it upon herself to take care of him and bath him each night, with her hands.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This is probably a rare case, but it was one that surprised me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Aqsa...Louticia Jackson takes such a personal interest in Willes which seems interesting and out of the norm. However, she was quick to mention at the end of the excerpt that she could &amp;quot;see his evil influence&amp;quot; (265). Obviously, Jackson was still aware of the racial divide and did not see Willes on the same level. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Eva Jones to Mary Jones, her mother-in-law, 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The imagery Eva employed to discuss the experiences of the Confederacy in the postwar period seem to me to be quite liberally applied; her portrayal of the South&amp;#039;s struggles in the wake of the war as &amp;quot;little feeble sickly attempts of virtue... [where] we [are] the chained witnesses&amp;quot; (266) by the &amp;quot;robbery and...unwise policy&amp;quot; (266) of the abolishment of slavery. It seems far-fetched to me that someone could actually conceptualize themselves as the victims in such a clearly false way, but it speaks to the culture and history of the South that it really was seen as the North coming in and robbing the good, hardworking whites of the South of their &amp;quot;property.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s amazing that that a cultural divide could be so wide that this sort of worldview could actually be an honestly-held one. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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These letters were very interesting. Eva expresses her annoyance with the loss of the South to the Union. Her narrative keys in on the emotions that many Southern women must have felt at that time. She is frustrated that her previous way of life has disintegrated. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I think the most poignant section of her letters is when she is describing how her confederate money is of no value. She states, &amp;quot;strange to say, the Yankees won&amp;#039;t take our Confederate money!&amp;quot; Her poverty is almost enforced because the Union government refuses to recognize her money. If the Union had recognized the (valueless) Confederate money would the South have been able to avoid extreme poverty? In addition, how could the Union have given value to the Confederate money in order to maintain classes and status? Would it have been beneficial to maintain these class boundaries to an extent? Or, was it best to completely erase all class and money from the South in order to start over?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Accounts of former slaves, 1865-1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== VA woman, recorded by abolitionist Laura Haviland in 1866 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading this account along with the other accounts about the new emancipation of slaves, the reader is able to grasp fully what it was like the moment the slave received word of their new found freedom. For many of the slaves, I think their biggest concern was their family. This woman was so elated at the news of her freedom that she proceeded to roll on the ground in excitement, and then she spoke of her husband and children that &amp;quot;can neber be&amp;quot; taken. Among many other obvious reasons, I could never imagine living the life of a slave. One of the hardest things I think many slaves had to endure was the constant fear of being separated from their families at any given moment, including their parents, spouses or even children. It is hard to think that these events were taking place only about 150 years ago. --Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Harriet Tubman, from her white female biographer, Sarah Bradford, 1886 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it interesting that Harriet and the others allowed these slaves to bring farm animals, such as pigs and chickens, on board. I&amp;#039;m assuming they brought them in order to trade them for money when they reached their destination. If this really is the case, that was very kind of them to allow them aboard, especially when it may have allowed for more humans if they weren&amp;#039;t there. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Burdett, to notary in Union camp in KY, March 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so horrible! I know that not all slave owners were like this, that this was an extreme, but still this was an extreme and horrible. I think that it takes a lot of courage to run away after that treatment and a great deal of courage to go the camp and ask for help.  The Union Camp did not have to help her, or even listen to her so to even go and tell her story is incredible. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What really hit me was the thought of imagining living in constant fear of being beaten in such away as Clarissa Burdett describes.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I continue to be amazed and disgusted by what humans can and will do to each other. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Fanny Berry, in Weevils in the Wheat, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tennessee Woman, 1929 [TN Nanny] ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that this woman had to be strong throughout her life. She knew she was free but continued to stay for the children, her bond with them must have been great.  The part of her story I found intriguing was that she used the power to &amp;quot;walk away&amp;quot; in stopping the children from being mistreated from their stepmother.  The former master even knew that the children visited their old nanny after she left and gave her food, clothes and money, he must have known how important she was to his children.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Remy that this Tennessee nanny was a very strong figure and it comes through in the text. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; When looking back on emancipation the common perception is of slaves getting out as quickly as possible from the horrors of living under their masters.  This article defies all of that and shows a slave who not only had a strong connection with the family that owned her (minus the stepmom) but was willing to sacrifice her freedom for a time just to be with them.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Through this a unique relationship is defined and is apparent when she talks back to her master and openly acknowledges she knows she is free without fear of repercussions. This is a unique point of view and insightful into the experience of newly found freedom. -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Anderson, NC ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Katie Darling, in TX ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Darling describes a lot of kind of scary things - forced marriages by masters and whippings like we&amp;#039;ve talked about, even after the war before they were released, but also just how close the front was and how much it frightened her mistress. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Imagine what a tense situation that would have been, with violence getting closer every day and the woman who has complete control of your life freaking out about it!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah and Lucy Chase, Teaching the Freedmen, 1866-1868 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I really enjoyed these articles because these women existed as outliers in a nation where race is a decisive issue.  I especially liked the end of the last letter by Sarah Chase to Mr. May &amp;quot;No matter how strict the rules, and wise and kind the teachers plans, for the comfort, and rights of the black scholar; the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;feeling&amp;#039;&amp;#039; of the whites expressd or not -- &amp;#039;&amp;#039;will&amp;#039;&amp;#039; keep the sensitive African away; though he would willingly bear cold, hunger, and whippings if need be--to &amp;#039;get a little larning.&amp;#039; (280)&amp;quot;  This expression of doubt by Sarah Chase bears a reflection of the tension of race relations in the south and other integrated areas.  If I had to choose between feeding and clothing myself or attending college it really would not be a choice.  One can talk about the importance of education until they&amp;#039;re blue in the face, but basic necessities, including safety for these blacks, are ultimately more important. --Sara S. &lt;br /&gt;
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== Susie King Taylor, Reminiscences of My Life in Camp, 1902 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found this article to be particularly interesting. Taylor is a black woman living in the South who speaks of the prospects of equality for the black man and white man, yet never mentions anything regarding a black woman&amp;#039;s equality within this new twentieth century America. Her writings and ideas are definitely ahead of her time and she speaks of a time that will happen soon after her life where the Southland will be more tolerant of blacks and everyone will live equally and sing in harmony. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;When analyzing the context as to when this article was written, it is intersting that Taylor never makes reference to women deserving equality (considering this was a time when the Women&amp;#039;s Suffrage Movement was gaining popularity)but instead only makes reference to black men deserving it.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It is almost as if she is focusing on one problem at a time and once the initial problem of race is fixed, then they can focus on the women. -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ada Bacot, Confederate Nurse, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found Ada Bacot&amp;#039;s comments on Two Wounded Yankees extremely interesting. She is a Confederate nurse, and yet she feels she has a duty to treat them. She describes them as human beings, something her male counterparts would likely gloss over and simply describe them as the enemy. But Ada feels pity, and although she doesn&amp;#039;t like it, she helps the soldiers. This is likely due to the role of women as being caretakers and motherly. She continues to fill that role regardless of the color of the men&amp;#039;s uniforms.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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I completely agree with Clare on this.  This document made me feel really empathetic towards the people fighting in the Civil War.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It&amp;#039;s easy to paint the picture of Southerners being barbaric slave owners and Northerners being too concerned with industrialization and profit to care about the lives of humans, but here it is a confederate woman who isn&amp;#039;t fighting for slavery or against industrialization, but is fighting to keep dying men alive.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  &amp;quot;I can&amp;#039;t help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.  They are our enemys too, wounded and in our power.  It will be hard to treat them as I do the other men but I know it is my duty.  The heat is almost over powering. (202)&amp;quot; This makes the war human, and having been in Charlottesville for the summer months before, I can only imagine how awful the hospital smelled and felt especially without air-conditioning. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ada Bacot demonstrates the conflict of ideologies within war. It is not black and white for Bacot. She, a Confederate nurse,  helps Yankees because she &amp;quot;cant help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.&amp;quot; As she is supporting the Confederate forces, she is forced to take care of the &amp;quot;enemy.&amp;quot; --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found this piece to be extremely interesting. Reading her diary entries, you can almost feel the discomfort from having these Union soldiers. But then she writes, “It will be hard to treat them as I do other men but I know that it is my duty.” (pg 202) Her sense of duty won in the end and that seems very remarkable to me. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was most interested in her observation that &amp;quot;The men are very kind to the two yankees&amp;quot; whereas she finds it very hard to do even the most basic things for them. I disagree with Clare that the other soldiers would just see these Union men as &amp;quot;the enemy&amp;quot;. From Bacot&amp;#039;s words as well as from many other sources, we often see soldiers recognizing what they have in common with each other. Not every soldier could or would do this, of course, but many did.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Knowing what the other side went through, these soldiers may have had real respect for one another. On the other hand, Bacot, who had never fought, would not have had that perspective, and so could not respect or care for the wounded enemy soldiers. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Maria Daly, 1862, Northerner in the South (New Orleans) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Maria Daly seems to write about the war in a positive, patriotic light. In that sense, she is very much against the South. She describes, &amp;quot;Southern ladies and gentlemen...are very agreeable people with very finished and courtly manners, but  they are a class utterly unsuited and antagonistic to the principles of our government.&amp;quot; She sees the South as a tyranny. She also states how the women nurses and volunteers are a comfort to the men. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;However, I am confused by the last paragraph..&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;(MP, 204)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. - Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wonder how Daly ended up stuck in the South during the war!  (JM--Doing war relief work) It sounds like she&amp;#039;s writing after the Union had occupied New Orleans, since she describes the Yankees sarcastically as &amp;quot;those barbarous creatures who have done nothing but feed their hungry and clothe their naked since they took their pestilent city.&amp;quot; But it seems like the women who volunteered in the hospitals were dealing with both Northern and Southern soldiers. I thought it was interesting how offended she was that the Southern officers had dinner, but then she mentioned that tea was $16 a pound, and I can&amp;#039;t imagine how expensive a dinner must have been! Maybe it seemed unreasonably extravagant when they were doing something as serious as waiting for prisoners of war. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah Morgan, 1863, Teen diary ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Morgan&amp;#039;s entry demonstrates the support some women gave to the war. She is very excited for the war and wants to join somehow. She thinks of all the ways she can support the Rebel cause with sewing and knitting. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It was interesting to read this excerpt because at the beginning of the war Sarah Morgan did not agree with the war, but her loyalty to the South is what seems to bring her around.  Doing her womanly duties is her way of contributing to the efforts of the war.  She was young and easily influenced by the war propaganda so she felt like it was her duty.  It was a short entry but influential and to see what she went through made me feel sorry for her situation.  –Pam P&lt;br /&gt;
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== Cornelia Hancock, Union Nurse, 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Caroline Kirkland, 1863, defends Northern women’s support of Northern men ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Caroline Kirkland’s entry was such a great example of North vs. South.  I enjoyed the fact that she felt sympathy for the women of the South, and then in the next sentence berated them for not doing everything they could to stop not just their soldier husbands, but also questioned their faith in God.  I thought that Kirkland’s selection was notable because she was a woman and very outspoken about what she witnessed, justified or not. – Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ella Gertrude Clanton Thomas, January 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Ella Thomas&amp;#039;s writing on life as a Southern woman in 1865 brings to life how devastating and traumatic the war really was in the south.  Her fury stems from the unjust insanity at the hands of the Union army that is ruining her life as she knows it.  She appears to be at the end of her rope with war and death stating,&amp;quot; I lose faith in humanity when I see such efforts to sink the nobler better part of man&amp;#039;s nature in an effort to exterminate the white race at the South in order to elevate the Negro race to a position which I doubt their ability to fill - The time will come when Southern women will be avenged.&amp;quot; This is a deep quote and I believe it sets the tone for how most Southern women felt during and long after the war.  In the first place most Southerners honestly did not see their actions towards slavery as being wrong and then then they are punished for it by having everything taken from them and destroyed.  This undoubtedly would be a confusing and infuriating time for anyone in the South who had their lives completely destroyed.  Thomas&amp;#039;s writing reveals an intimate example of the tole that the war took on the South and helps to remind that Southerners were more than just wicked slave holders.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Rachel T.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 13-14 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-01T14:16:18Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Maria Daly, 1862, Northerner in the South (New Orleans) */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching or comparative questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that was a little surprising was the number of slave accounts where they did not find out that they were freed from their masters. This happened in Clarissa Burdett&amp;#039;s account (she just ran away), Fanny Berry&amp;#039;s, and Katie Darling&amp;#039;s. It&amp;#039;s not necessarily surprising that white owners would try to pull that off, but I am wondering what reasons there were for the owners to be able to get away with keeping their slaves for an extended period of time. Was it geographical?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read multiple times of women having problems with farm equipment, the latest being &amp;quot;Loss of male labor, crumbling equipment...&amp;quot; (Woloch 264) It is not in an actual account of the time but in the Woloch&amp;#039;s overview of the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;A Wartime Mistress.&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Why do we see this mentioned so often with women in the South but not the North?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louisa May Alcott, Hospital Sketches, 1862-1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read &amp;quot;Hospital Sketches&amp;quot; in it&amp;#039;s entirety a couple of times and also Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary, and I still am not entirely in agreement that women, as nurses, did not perform medical tasks at all. I do agree that the job was very different from today, when nurses receive medical training, but both Alcott&amp;#039;s book and Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary say that they provided more than just emotional comfort. Again, not like what we see today, but not entirely hands-off, either. I have to admit, having read so much more in-depth than just this one excerpt from her diary, I feel like there&amp;#039;s a lot of information about the role of nurses that&amp;#039;s being left out.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s description of being a Union nurse, it is apparent that women are new to the field of nursing, and even then, their definition of nursing is not what it is today. Alcott writes, &amp;quot;I find real pleasure in comforting, tending, and cheering these poor souls who seem to love me, to feel my sympathy though unspoken, and acknowledge my hearty good-will, in spite of the ignorance, awkwardness, and bashfulness which I cannot help showing in so new and trying a situation.&amp;quot; Alcott&amp;#039;s main role was to keep up the spirits of the men, not doing any actual medical aide. Furthermore, she describeds fulfilling these duties with awkwardness and bashfulness. This is likely because ladies were supposed to be in the home, and if they are out of the home they are certainly not supposed to be dealing with men they are not married to. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s account, I found it interesting to see the change in gender norms for women. While women were now allowed to work outside the house and in Alcott&amp;#039;s case even encouraged, &amp;quot;Shall I stay, Mother?...No, go! and the Lord be with you!&amp;quot; (258). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Her mother encouraged her to go and participate, eventhough she would have been hundreds of miles away, but at the same time, her duties while being a nurse, were still part of the expectation for women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She cooked, and cared for the wounded and sick in a &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; manner, she wrote letters for them rather than actually do any medical treatment. Even though women had similar tasks while being away from the house, they slightly improved the norms for women by getting society to see them as not just an asset to the household. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What makes Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Hospital Sketches&amp;#039;&amp;#039; so valuable to historians today is both the personal and detailed account she provides. Nursing during the Civil War is almost completely different from the modern conception of nursing and was more about bringing emotional comfort to the patients versus physical comfort. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What is amazing about Alcott&amp;#039;s job is the emotional strength she needed to complete her job effectively.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Not many people, men or women, could handle a job which confronts death of a daily basis and the fact that she knew the risks she was putting herself in to do this job shows not only what a great person Alcott was, but how strong all nurses were at this time. --Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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While describing the men she is taking care of, Alcott betrays her understanding of societal gender norms. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In her notes from January of 1863, she mentions a man named John Sulie, who is uncommonly kind and gentle, with &amp;quot;a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s, a nature fresh and frank as any child&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot; (259) Those comparisons imply that a typical man was not expected to be warm- or tender-hearted, and also not frank. That is to say, the average man was cold- or steely-hearted and somewhat devious or deceptive--not a particularly ringing endorsement of men; in a later instance, a doctor caring for Alcott when she falls ill is described as &amp;quot;a motherly little man,&amp;quot; solely because he checks up on Alcott and fusses over her in a matter than seems, apparently, feminine. Additionally, her concerns about looking motherly (and her apparent discomfort when he feels she&amp;#039;s being viewed in a sexualized way by a man she cares for her in December) reinforce her understanding--and Dix&amp;#039;s strong conviction--about the importance of nurses as maternal figures.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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The thing that I found most interesting in this particular passage was Alcott&amp;#039;s definition of gender norms throughout the entire thing. She begins this by hoping that she acts &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; to the patients (pg 259, 2nd paragraph).  However, a couple paragraphs later she distinguishes the types of men by their gendered qualities. For instance, she says, &amp;quot;the men are docile,respectful, and affectionate, with but few exceptions; truly lovable and manly many of them.&amp;quot; She goes on: &amp;quot;. . . a Virginia blacksmith, is the prince of patients. . . a common man in education and condition, to me is all I could expect from the first gentleman in the land. Under his plain speech and unpolished manner I seem to see a noble character, a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot;  This blacksmith was described by both his manliness and also his womanly character--his tender heart. Later, Alcott describes a man as &amp;quot;patient as a woman.&amp;quot; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It is interesting to me that she uses all of these gendered characterizations to describe her patients and also the people who worked in the ward with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alcott reveals a noteworthy level of determination in her decision to be a nurse. She recognizes the reality that death could possibly be impending; however, she sees the need in the hospital and decides to go for it. She mentions the word &amp;quot;comfort&amp;quot; a few times in referencing her role as a comforter of these sick and dying men. When Alcott herself is taken ill, she describes it in close detail and gives us a glimpse into the seriousness of diseases back then and the fear they could cause. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Livermore, [Northern women on farm during war], 1890 -- Woloch and Major Problems readings. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I rather enjoyed this reading.  Mary describes her initial reaction of women in the fields &amp;quot;At first, it displeased me, and I turned away in aversion&amp;quot; (262) yet her curiosity got the best of her.  When her carriage had to stop she approached these women and asked them about their work.  Instead of completely ignoring and dismissing the women she instead questions them, getting first hand insight to why they would be involved in work for men.  This made me think that even though she may not have approved at first, she probably understood and accepted the practice more. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was cool when she discussed how great of a job the women did in the field. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;By and by, I observed how skillfully they drove the horses round and round the wheat-field&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;although they did not keep up with the men, their work was done with more precision and nicety, and their sheaves had an artistic finish that lacked made by men&amp;quot; (262)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. It goes to show that they truly cared about doing the work and perhaps these women weren&amp;#039;t bitter about their husbands not being there to do the work. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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Wow, Mary Livermore writes beautifully. I was impressed by the scale of the efforts she describes, like the 1,000 shirts a day made in Boston - imagine the dedication that would be needed to organize that so quickly and at such a grand scale without Facebook! I also was struck by the seriousness she assigns to things women did like ignoring fashion. That sounds like such a small thing now, but with the amount of fabric needed for bandages and uniforms and the amount of fabric a new dress would have taken at the time, I suppose that actually would have been a significant contribution in and of itself. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think this has been my favorite reading of the semester. There is so much interesting information. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The description of the work clothes that the women were wearing is fantastic, you do not see women dressed like that in photographs of the time period, so it is neat to have the description. Also, I think it was not so much about not following the fashion as it was about common sense. I imagine it would be very hard to plow a field while wearing hoops.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I also imagine the women still had a best dress to wear on Sundays and to other nice events and that they did wear hoops with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also found some of her descriptions very powerful and emotionally striking. &amp;quot;It came very hard on us to let the boys go, but we felt we&amp;#039;d no right to hinder&amp;#039;em. The country needed&amp;#039;em more&amp;#039;n we.&amp;quot; (263) It shows how much patriotism these women had.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
I also loved the when the one girl told &amp;quot;For during the last war in Germany men were so scarce that she had to work three years in a blacksmith&amp;#039;s shop.&amp;quot; (263) Was this really true? Would the German people really have accepted this of their women? Were women in Germany treated differently, given more freedom than American women? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louticia Jackson’s letter in 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louticia Jackson&amp;#039;s letter to her son, she mentions how she took care of one of her slaves, Willes.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Eventhough we&amp;#039;ve learned that slaves are seen as property and therefore any punishment can&amp;#039;t be too harsh because it would then effect the work of the investment. I found it really surprising the way she took care of Willes when he was sick &amp;quot;...he took the fever immediately after wchich lasted some 5 or 6 weeks in which time i attended him closely day and night, bathed and rubbed him with my own hands fearing it would not be faithfully done [otherwise]&amp;quot; (265). Instead of having another female slave take care of Willes, she took it upon herself to take care of him and bath him each night, with her hands.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This is probably a rare case, but it was one that surprised me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Aqsa...Louticia Jackson takes such a personal interest in Willes which seems interesting and out of the norm. However, she was quick to mention at the end of the excerpt that she could &amp;quot;see his evil influence&amp;quot; (265). Obviously, Jackson was still aware of the racial divide and did not see Willes on the same level. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Eva Jones to Mary Jones, her mother-in-law, 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The imagery Eva employed to discuss the experiences of the Confederacy in the postwar period seem to me to be quite liberally applied; her portrayal of the South&amp;#039;s struggles in the wake of the war as &amp;quot;little feeble sickly attempts of virtue... [where] we [are] the chained witnesses&amp;quot; (266) by the &amp;quot;robbery and...unwise policy&amp;quot; (266) of the abolishment of slavery. It seems far-fetched to me that someone could actually conceptualize themselves as the victims in such a clearly false way, but it speaks to the culture and history of the South that it really was seen as the North coming in and robbing the good, hardworking whites of the South of their &amp;quot;property.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s amazing that that a cultural divide could be so wide that this sort of worldview could actually be an honestly-held one. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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These letters were very interesting. Eva expresses her annoyance with the loss of the South to the Union. Her narrative keys in on the emotions that many Southern women must have felt at that time. She is frustrated that her previous way of life has disintegrated. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I think the most poignant section of her letters is when she is describing how her confederate money is of no value. She states, &amp;quot;strange to say, the Yankees won&amp;#039;t take our Confederate money!&amp;quot; Her poverty is almost enforced because the Union government refuses to recognize her money. If the Union had recognized the (valueless) Confederate money would the South have been able to avoid extreme poverty? In addition, how could the Union have given value to the Confederate money in order to maintain classes and status? Would it have been beneficial to maintain these class boundaries to an extent? Or, was it best to completely erase all class and money from the South in order to start over?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Accounts of former slaves, 1865-1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== VA woman, recorded by abolitionist Laura Haviland in 1866 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading this account along with the other accounts about the new emancipation of slaves, the reader is able to grasp fully what it was like the moment the slave received word of their new found freedom. For many of the slaves, I think their biggest concern was their family. This woman was so elated at the news of her freedom that she proceeded to roll on the ground in excitement, and then she spoke of her husband and children that &amp;quot;can neber be&amp;quot; taken. Among many other obvious reasons, I could never imagine living the life of a slave. One of the hardest things I think many slaves had to endure was the constant fear of being separated from their families at any given moment, including their parents, spouses or even children. It is hard to think that these events were taking place only about 150 years ago. --Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Harriet Tubman, from her white female biographer, Sarah Bradford, 1886 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it interesting that Harriet and the others allowed these slaves to bring farm animals, such as pigs and chickens, on board. I&amp;#039;m assuming they brought them in order to trade them for money when they reached their destination. If this really is the case, that was very kind of them to allow them aboard, especially when it may have allowed for more humans if they weren&amp;#039;t there. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Burdett, to notary in Union camp in KY, March 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so horrible! I know that not all slave owners were like this, that this was an extreme, but still this was an extreme and horrible. I think that it takes a lot of courage to run away after that treatment and a great deal of courage to go the camp and ask for help.  The Union Camp did not have to help her, or even listen to her so to even go and tell her story is incredible. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What really hit me was the thought of imagining living in constant fear of being beaten in such away as Clarissa Burdett describes.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I continue to be amazed and disgusted by what humans can and will do to each other. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Fanny Berry, in Weevils in the Wheat, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tennessee Woman, 1929 [TN Nanny] ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that this woman had to be strong throughout her life. She knew she was free but continued to stay for the children, her bond with them must have been great.  The part of her story I found intriguing was that she used the power to &amp;quot;walk away&amp;quot; in stopping the children from being mistreated from their stepmother.  The former master even knew that the children visited their old nanny after she left and gave her food, clothes and money, he must have known how important she was to his children.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Remy that this Tennessee nanny was a very strong figure and it comes through in the text. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; When looking back on emancipation the common perception is of slaves getting out as quickly as possible from the horrors of living under their masters.  This article defies all of that and shows a slave who not only had a strong connection with the family that owned her (minus the stepmom) but was willing to sacrifice her freedom for a time just to be with them.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Through this a unique relationship is defined and is apparent when she talks back to her master and openly acknowledges she knows she is free without fear of repercussions. This is a unique point of view and insightful into the experience of newly found freedom. -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Anderson, NC ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Katie Darling, in TX ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Darling describes a lot of kind of scary things - forced marriages by masters and whippings like we&amp;#039;ve talked about, even after the war before they were released, but also just how close the front was and how much it frightened her mistress. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Imagine what a tense situation that would have been, with violence getting closer every day and the woman who has complete control of your life freaking out about it!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah and Lucy Chase, Teaching the Freedmen, 1866-1868 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I really enjoyed these articles because these women existed as outliers in a nation where race is a decisive issue.  I especially liked the end of the last letter by Sarah Chase to Mr. May &amp;quot;No matter how strict the rules, and wise and kind the teachers plans, for the comfort, and rights of the black scholar; the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;feeling&amp;#039;&amp;#039; of the whites expressd or not -- &amp;#039;&amp;#039;will&amp;#039;&amp;#039; keep the sensitive African away; though he would willingly bear cold, hunger, and whippings if need be--to &amp;#039;get a little larning.&amp;#039; (280)&amp;quot;  This expression of doubt by Sarah Chase bears a reflection of the tension of race relations in the south and other integrated areas.  If I had to choose between feeding and clothing myself or attending college it really would not be a choice.  One can talk about the importance of education until they&amp;#039;re blue in the face, but basic necessities, including safety for these blacks, are ultimately more important. --Sara S. &lt;br /&gt;
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== Susie King Taylor, Reminiscences of My Life in Camp, 1902 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found this article to be particularly interesting. Taylor is a black woman living in the South who speaks of the prospects of equality for the black man and white man, yet never mentions anything regarding a black woman&amp;#039;s equality within this new twentieth century America. Her writings and ideas are definitely ahead of her time and she speaks of a time that will happen soon after her life where the Southland will be more tolerant of blacks and everyone will live equally and sing in harmony. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;When analyzing the context as to when this article was written, it is intersting that Taylor never makes reference to women deserving equality (considering this was a time when the Women&amp;#039;s Suffrage Movement was gaining popularity)but instead only makes reference to black men deserving it.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It is almost as if she is focusing on one problem at a time and once the initial problem of race is fixed, then they can focus on the women. -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ada Bacot, Confederate Nurse, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found Ada Bacot&amp;#039;s comments on Two Wounded Yankees extremely interesting. She is a Confederate nurse, and yet she feels she has a duty to treat them. She describes them as human beings, something her male counterparts would likely gloss over and simply describe them as the enemy. But Ada feels pity, and although she doesn&amp;#039;t like it, she helps the soldiers. This is likely due to the role of women as being caretakers and motherly. She continues to fill that role regardless of the color of the men&amp;#039;s uniforms.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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I completely agree with Clare on this.  This document made me feel really empathetic towards the people fighting in the Civil War.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It&amp;#039;s easy to paint the picture of Southerners being barbaric slave owners and Northerners being too concerned with industrialization and profit to care about the lives of humans, but here it is a confederate woman who isn&amp;#039;t fighting for slavery or against industrialization, but is fighting to keep dying men alive.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  &amp;quot;I can&amp;#039;t help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.  They are our enemys too, wounded and in our power.  It will be hard to treat them as I do the other men but I know it is my duty.  The heat is almost over powering. (202)&amp;quot; This makes the war human, and having been in Charlottesville for the summer months before, I can only imagine how awful the hospital smelled and felt especially without air-conditioning. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ada Bacot demonstrates the conflict of ideologies within war. It is not black and white for Bacot. She, a Confederate nurse,  helps Yankees because she &amp;quot;cant help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.&amp;quot; As she is supporting the Confederate forces, she is forced to take care of the &amp;quot;enemy.&amp;quot; --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found this piece to be extremely interesting. Reading her diary entries, you can almost feel the discomfort from having these Union soldiers. But then she writes, “It will be hard to treat them as I do other men but I know that it is my duty.” (pg 202) Her sense of duty won in the end and that seems very remarkable to me. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was most interested in her observation that &amp;quot;The men are very kind to the two yankees&amp;quot; whereas she finds it very hard to do even the most basic things for them. I disagree with Clare that the other soldiers would just see these Union men as &amp;quot;the enemy&amp;quot;. From Bacot&amp;#039;s words as well as from many other sources, we often see soldiers recognizing what they have in common with each other. Not every soldier could or would do this, of course, but many did.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Knowing what the other side went through, these soldiers may have had real respect for one another. On the other hand, Bacot, who had never fought, would not have had that perspective, and so could not respect or care for the wounded enemy soldiers. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Maria Daly, 1862, Northerner in the South (New Orleans) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Maria Daly seems to write about the war in a positive, patriotic light. In that sense, she is very much against the South. She describes, &amp;quot;Southern ladies and gentlemen...are very agreeable people with very finished and courtly manners, but  they are a class utterly unsuited and antagonistic to the principles of our government.&amp;quot; She sees the South as a tyranny. She also states how the women nurses and volunteers are a comfort to the men. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;However, I am confused by the last paragraph..&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;(MP, 204)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. - Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wonder how Daly ended up stuck in the South during the war!  (JM--Doing war relief work) It sounds like she&amp;#039;s writing after the Union had occupied New Orleans, since she describes the Yankees sarcastically as &amp;quot;those barbarous creatures who have done nothing but feed their hungry and clothe their naked since they took their pestilent city.&amp;quot; But it seems like the women who volunteered in the hospitals were dealing with both Northern and Southern soldiers. I thought it was interesting how offended she was that the Southern officers had dinner, but then she mentioned that tea was $16 a pound, and I can&amp;#039;t imagine how expensive a dinner must have been! Maybe it seemed unreasonably extravagant when they were doing something as serious as waiting for prisoners of war. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah Morgan, 1863, Teen diary ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Morgan&amp;#039;s entry demonstrates the support some women gave to the war. She is very excited for the war and wants to join somehow. She thinks of all the ways she can support the Rebel cause with sewing and knitting. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It was interesting to read this excerpt because at the beginning of the war Sarah Morgan did not agree with the war, but her loyalty to the South is what seems to bring her around.  Doing her womanly duties is her way of contributing to the efforts of the war.  She was young and easily influenced by the war propaganda so she felt like it was her duty.  It was a short entry but influential and to see what she went through made me feel sorry for her situation.  –Pam P&lt;br /&gt;
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== Cornelia Hancock, Union Nurse, 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Caroline Kirkland, 1863, defends Northern women’s support of Northern men ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Caroline Kirkland’s entry was such a great example of North vs. South.  I enjoyed the fact that she felt sympathy for the women of the South, and then in the next sentence berated them for not doing everything they could to stop not just their soldier husbands, but also questioned their faith in God.  I thought that Kirkland’s selection was notable because she was a woman and very outspoken about what she witnessed, justified or not. – Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ella Gertrude Clanton Thomas, January 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ella Thomas&amp;#039;s writing on life as a Southern woman in 1865 brings to life how devastating and traumatic the war really was in the south.  Her fury stems from the unjust insanity at the hands of the Union army that is ruining her life as she knows it.  She appears to be at the end of her rope with war and death stating,&amp;quot; I lose faith in humanity when I see such efforts to sink the nobler better part of man&amp;#039;s nature in an effort to exterminate the white race at the South in order to elevate the Negro race to a position which I doubt their ability to fill - The time will come when Southern women will be avenged.&amp;quot; This is a deep quote and I believe it sets the tone for how most Southern women felt during and long after the war.  In the first place most Southerners honestly did not see their actions towards slavery as being wrong and then then they are punished for it by having everything taken from them and destroyed.  This undoubtedly would be a confusing and infuriating time for anyone in the South who had their lives completely destroyed.  Thomas&amp;#039;s writing reveals an intimate example of the tole that the war took on the South and helps to remind that Southerners were more than just wicked slave holders.  --Rachel T.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 13-14 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-01T14:13:32Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Ada Bacot, Confederate Nurse, 1862 */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching or comparative questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that was a little surprising was the number of slave accounts where they did not find out that they were freed from their masters. This happened in Clarissa Burdett&amp;#039;s account (she just ran away), Fanny Berry&amp;#039;s, and Katie Darling&amp;#039;s. It&amp;#039;s not necessarily surprising that white owners would try to pull that off, but I am wondering what reasons there were for the owners to be able to get away with keeping their slaves for an extended period of time. Was it geographical?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read multiple times of women having problems with farm equipment, the latest being &amp;quot;Loss of male labor, crumbling equipment...&amp;quot; (Woloch 264) It is not in an actual account of the time but in the Woloch&amp;#039;s overview of the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;A Wartime Mistress.&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Why do we see this mentioned so often with women in the South but not the North?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louisa May Alcott, Hospital Sketches, 1862-1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read &amp;quot;Hospital Sketches&amp;quot; in it&amp;#039;s entirety a couple of times and also Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary, and I still am not entirely in agreement that women, as nurses, did not perform medical tasks at all. I do agree that the job was very different from today, when nurses receive medical training, but both Alcott&amp;#039;s book and Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary say that they provided more than just emotional comfort. Again, not like what we see today, but not entirely hands-off, either. I have to admit, having read so much more in-depth than just this one excerpt from her diary, I feel like there&amp;#039;s a lot of information about the role of nurses that&amp;#039;s being left out.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s description of being a Union nurse, it is apparent that women are new to the field of nursing, and even then, their definition of nursing is not what it is today. Alcott writes, &amp;quot;I find real pleasure in comforting, tending, and cheering these poor souls who seem to love me, to feel my sympathy though unspoken, and acknowledge my hearty good-will, in spite of the ignorance, awkwardness, and bashfulness which I cannot help showing in so new and trying a situation.&amp;quot; Alcott&amp;#039;s main role was to keep up the spirits of the men, not doing any actual medical aide. Furthermore, she describeds fulfilling these duties with awkwardness and bashfulness. This is likely because ladies were supposed to be in the home, and if they are out of the home they are certainly not supposed to be dealing with men they are not married to. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s account, I found it interesting to see the change in gender norms for women. While women were now allowed to work outside the house and in Alcott&amp;#039;s case even encouraged, &amp;quot;Shall I stay, Mother?...No, go! and the Lord be with you!&amp;quot; (258). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Her mother encouraged her to go and participate, eventhough she would have been hundreds of miles away, but at the same time, her duties while being a nurse, were still part of the expectation for women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She cooked, and cared for the wounded and sick in a &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; manner, she wrote letters for them rather than actually do any medical treatment. Even though women had similar tasks while being away from the house, they slightly improved the norms for women by getting society to see them as not just an asset to the household. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What makes Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Hospital Sketches&amp;#039;&amp;#039; so valuable to historians today is both the personal and detailed account she provides. Nursing during the Civil War is almost completely different from the modern conception of nursing and was more about bringing emotional comfort to the patients versus physical comfort. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What is amazing about Alcott&amp;#039;s job is the emotional strength she needed to complete her job effectively.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Not many people, men or women, could handle a job which confronts death of a daily basis and the fact that she knew the risks she was putting herself in to do this job shows not only what a great person Alcott was, but how strong all nurses were at this time. --Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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While describing the men she is taking care of, Alcott betrays her understanding of societal gender norms. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In her notes from January of 1863, she mentions a man named John Sulie, who is uncommonly kind and gentle, with &amp;quot;a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s, a nature fresh and frank as any child&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot; (259) Those comparisons imply that a typical man was not expected to be warm- or tender-hearted, and also not frank. That is to say, the average man was cold- or steely-hearted and somewhat devious or deceptive--not a particularly ringing endorsement of men; in a later instance, a doctor caring for Alcott when she falls ill is described as &amp;quot;a motherly little man,&amp;quot; solely because he checks up on Alcott and fusses over her in a matter than seems, apparently, feminine. Additionally, her concerns about looking motherly (and her apparent discomfort when he feels she&amp;#039;s being viewed in a sexualized way by a man she cares for her in December) reinforce her understanding--and Dix&amp;#039;s strong conviction--about the importance of nurses as maternal figures.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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The thing that I found most interesting in this particular passage was Alcott&amp;#039;s definition of gender norms throughout the entire thing. She begins this by hoping that she acts &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; to the patients (pg 259, 2nd paragraph).  However, a couple paragraphs later she distinguishes the types of men by their gendered qualities. For instance, she says, &amp;quot;the men are docile,respectful, and affectionate, with but few exceptions; truly lovable and manly many of them.&amp;quot; She goes on: &amp;quot;. . . a Virginia blacksmith, is the prince of patients. . . a common man in education and condition, to me is all I could expect from the first gentleman in the land. Under his plain speech and unpolished manner I seem to see a noble character, a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot;  This blacksmith was described by both his manliness and also his womanly character--his tender heart. Later, Alcott describes a man as &amp;quot;patient as a woman.&amp;quot; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It is interesting to me that she uses all of these gendered characterizations to describe her patients and also the people who worked in the ward with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alcott reveals a noteworthy level of determination in her decision to be a nurse. She recognizes the reality that death could possibly be impending; however, she sees the need in the hospital and decides to go for it. She mentions the word &amp;quot;comfort&amp;quot; a few times in referencing her role as a comforter of these sick and dying men. When Alcott herself is taken ill, she describes it in close detail and gives us a glimpse into the seriousness of diseases back then and the fear they could cause. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Livermore, [Northern women on farm during war], 1890 -- Woloch and Major Problems readings. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I rather enjoyed this reading.  Mary describes her initial reaction of women in the fields &amp;quot;At first, it displeased me, and I turned away in aversion&amp;quot; (262) yet her curiosity got the best of her.  When her carriage had to stop she approached these women and asked them about their work.  Instead of completely ignoring and dismissing the women she instead questions them, getting first hand insight to why they would be involved in work for men.  This made me think that even though she may not have approved at first, she probably understood and accepted the practice more. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was cool when she discussed how great of a job the women did in the field. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;By and by, I observed how skillfully they drove the horses round and round the wheat-field&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;although they did not keep up with the men, their work was done with more precision and nicety, and their sheaves had an artistic finish that lacked made by men&amp;quot; (262)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. It goes to show that they truly cared about doing the work and perhaps these women weren&amp;#039;t bitter about their husbands not being there to do the work. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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Wow, Mary Livermore writes beautifully. I was impressed by the scale of the efforts she describes, like the 1,000 shirts a day made in Boston - imagine the dedication that would be needed to organize that so quickly and at such a grand scale without Facebook! I also was struck by the seriousness she assigns to things women did like ignoring fashion. That sounds like such a small thing now, but with the amount of fabric needed for bandages and uniforms and the amount of fabric a new dress would have taken at the time, I suppose that actually would have been a significant contribution in and of itself. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think this has been my favorite reading of the semester. There is so much interesting information. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The description of the work clothes that the women were wearing is fantastic, you do not see women dressed like that in photographs of the time period, so it is neat to have the description. Also, I think it was not so much about not following the fashion as it was about common sense. I imagine it would be very hard to plow a field while wearing hoops.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I also imagine the women still had a best dress to wear on Sundays and to other nice events and that they did wear hoops with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also found some of her descriptions very powerful and emotionally striking. &amp;quot;It came very hard on us to let the boys go, but we felt we&amp;#039;d no right to hinder&amp;#039;em. The country needed&amp;#039;em more&amp;#039;n we.&amp;quot; (263) It shows how much patriotism these women had.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
I also loved the when the one girl told &amp;quot;For during the last war in Germany men were so scarce that she had to work three years in a blacksmith&amp;#039;s shop.&amp;quot; (263) Was this really true? Would the German people really have accepted this of their women? Were women in Germany treated differently, given more freedom than American women? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louticia Jackson’s letter in 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louticia Jackson&amp;#039;s letter to her son, she mentions how she took care of one of her slaves, Willes.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Eventhough we&amp;#039;ve learned that slaves are seen as property and therefore any punishment can&amp;#039;t be too harsh because it would then effect the work of the investment. I found it really surprising the way she took care of Willes when he was sick &amp;quot;...he took the fever immediately after wchich lasted some 5 or 6 weeks in which time i attended him closely day and night, bathed and rubbed him with my own hands fearing it would not be faithfully done [otherwise]&amp;quot; (265). Instead of having another female slave take care of Willes, she took it upon herself to take care of him and bath him each night, with her hands.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This is probably a rare case, but it was one that surprised me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Aqsa...Louticia Jackson takes such a personal interest in Willes which seems interesting and out of the norm. However, she was quick to mention at the end of the excerpt that she could &amp;quot;see his evil influence&amp;quot; (265). Obviously, Jackson was still aware of the racial divide and did not see Willes on the same level. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Eva Jones to Mary Jones, her mother-in-law, 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The imagery Eva employed to discuss the experiences of the Confederacy in the postwar period seem to me to be quite liberally applied; her portrayal of the South&amp;#039;s struggles in the wake of the war as &amp;quot;little feeble sickly attempts of virtue... [where] we [are] the chained witnesses&amp;quot; (266) by the &amp;quot;robbery and...unwise policy&amp;quot; (266) of the abolishment of slavery. It seems far-fetched to me that someone could actually conceptualize themselves as the victims in such a clearly false way, but it speaks to the culture and history of the South that it really was seen as the North coming in and robbing the good, hardworking whites of the South of their &amp;quot;property.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s amazing that that a cultural divide could be so wide that this sort of worldview could actually be an honestly-held one. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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These letters were very interesting. Eva expresses her annoyance with the loss of the South to the Union. Her narrative keys in on the emotions that many Southern women must have felt at that time. She is frustrated that her previous way of life has disintegrated. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I think the most poignant section of her letters is when she is describing how her confederate money is of no value. She states, &amp;quot;strange to say, the Yankees won&amp;#039;t take our Confederate money!&amp;quot; Her poverty is almost enforced because the Union government refuses to recognize her money. If the Union had recognized the (valueless) Confederate money would the South have been able to avoid extreme poverty? In addition, how could the Union have given value to the Confederate money in order to maintain classes and status? Would it have been beneficial to maintain these class boundaries to an extent? Or, was it best to completely erase all class and money from the South in order to start over?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Accounts of former slaves, 1865-1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== VA woman, recorded by abolitionist Laura Haviland in 1866 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading this account along with the other accounts about the new emancipation of slaves, the reader is able to grasp fully what it was like the moment the slave received word of their new found freedom. For many of the slaves, I think their biggest concern was their family. This woman was so elated at the news of her freedom that she proceeded to roll on the ground in excitement, and then she spoke of her husband and children that &amp;quot;can neber be&amp;quot; taken. Among many other obvious reasons, I could never imagine living the life of a slave. One of the hardest things I think many slaves had to endure was the constant fear of being separated from their families at any given moment, including their parents, spouses or even children. It is hard to think that these events were taking place only about 150 years ago. --Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Harriet Tubman, from her white female biographer, Sarah Bradford, 1886 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it interesting that Harriet and the others allowed these slaves to bring farm animals, such as pigs and chickens, on board. I&amp;#039;m assuming they brought them in order to trade them for money when they reached their destination. If this really is the case, that was very kind of them to allow them aboard, especially when it may have allowed for more humans if they weren&amp;#039;t there. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Burdett, to notary in Union camp in KY, March 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so horrible! I know that not all slave owners were like this, that this was an extreme, but still this was an extreme and horrible. I think that it takes a lot of courage to run away after that treatment and a great deal of courage to go the camp and ask for help.  The Union Camp did not have to help her, or even listen to her so to even go and tell her story is incredible. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What really hit me was the thought of imagining living in constant fear of being beaten in such away as Clarissa Burdett describes.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I continue to be amazed and disgusted by what humans can and will do to each other. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Fanny Berry, in Weevils in the Wheat, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tennessee Woman, 1929 [TN Nanny] ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that this woman had to be strong throughout her life. She knew she was free but continued to stay for the children, her bond with them must have been great.  The part of her story I found intriguing was that she used the power to &amp;quot;walk away&amp;quot; in stopping the children from being mistreated from their stepmother.  The former master even knew that the children visited their old nanny after she left and gave her food, clothes and money, he must have known how important she was to his children.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Remy that this Tennessee nanny was a very strong figure and it comes through in the text. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; When looking back on emancipation the common perception is of slaves getting out as quickly as possible from the horrors of living under their masters.  This article defies all of that and shows a slave who not only had a strong connection with the family that owned her (minus the stepmom) but was willing to sacrifice her freedom for a time just to be with them.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Through this a unique relationship is defined and is apparent when she talks back to her master and openly acknowledges she knows she is free without fear of repercussions. This is a unique point of view and insightful into the experience of newly found freedom. -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Anderson, NC ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Katie Darling, in TX ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Darling describes a lot of kind of scary things - forced marriages by masters and whippings like we&amp;#039;ve talked about, even after the war before they were released, but also just how close the front was and how much it frightened her mistress. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Imagine what a tense situation that would have been, with violence getting closer every day and the woman who has complete control of your life freaking out about it!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah and Lucy Chase, Teaching the Freedmen, 1866-1868 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I really enjoyed these articles because these women existed as outliers in a nation where race is a decisive issue.  I especially liked the end of the last letter by Sarah Chase to Mr. May &amp;quot;No matter how strict the rules, and wise and kind the teachers plans, for the comfort, and rights of the black scholar; the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;feeling&amp;#039;&amp;#039; of the whites expressd or not -- &amp;#039;&amp;#039;will&amp;#039;&amp;#039; keep the sensitive African away; though he would willingly bear cold, hunger, and whippings if need be--to &amp;#039;get a little larning.&amp;#039; (280)&amp;quot;  This expression of doubt by Sarah Chase bears a reflection of the tension of race relations in the south and other integrated areas.  If I had to choose between feeding and clothing myself or attending college it really would not be a choice.  One can talk about the importance of education until they&amp;#039;re blue in the face, but basic necessities, including safety for these blacks, are ultimately more important. --Sara S. &lt;br /&gt;
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== Susie King Taylor, Reminiscences of My Life in Camp, 1902 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found this article to be particularly interesting. Taylor is a black woman living in the South who speaks of the prospects of equality for the black man and white man, yet never mentions anything regarding a black woman&amp;#039;s equality within this new twentieth century America. Her writings and ideas are definitely ahead of her time and she speaks of a time that will happen soon after her life where the Southland will be more tolerant of blacks and everyone will live equally and sing in harmony. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;When analyzing the context as to when this article was written, it is intersting that Taylor never makes reference to women deserving equality (considering this was a time when the Women&amp;#039;s Suffrage Movement was gaining popularity)but instead only makes reference to black men deserving it.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It is almost as if she is focusing on one problem at a time and once the initial problem of race is fixed, then they can focus on the women. -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ada Bacot, Confederate Nurse, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found Ada Bacot&amp;#039;s comments on Two Wounded Yankees extremely interesting. She is a Confederate nurse, and yet she feels she has a duty to treat them. She describes them as human beings, something her male counterparts would likely gloss over and simply describe them as the enemy. But Ada feels pity, and although she doesn&amp;#039;t like it, she helps the soldiers. This is likely due to the role of women as being caretakers and motherly. She continues to fill that role regardless of the color of the men&amp;#039;s uniforms.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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I completely agree with Clare on this.  This document made me feel really empathetic towards the people fighting in the Civil War.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It&amp;#039;s easy to paint the picture of Southerners being barbaric slave owners and Northerners being too concerned with industrialization and profit to care about the lives of humans, but here it is a confederate woman who isn&amp;#039;t fighting for slavery or against industrialization, but is fighting to keep dying men alive.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  &amp;quot;I can&amp;#039;t help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.  They are our enemys too, wounded and in our power.  It will be hard to treat them as I do the other men but I know it is my duty.  The heat is almost over powering. (202)&amp;quot; This makes the war human, and having been in Charlottesville for the summer months before, I can only imagine how awful the hospital smelled and felt especially without air-conditioning. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ada Bacot demonstrates the conflict of ideologies within war. It is not black and white for Bacot. She, a Confederate nurse,  helps Yankees because she &amp;quot;cant help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.&amp;quot; As she is supporting the Confederate forces, she is forced to take care of the &amp;quot;enemy.&amp;quot; --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found this piece to be extremely interesting. Reading her diary entries, you can almost feel the discomfort from having these Union soldiers. But then she writes, “It will be hard to treat them as I do other men but I know that it is my duty.” (pg 202) Her sense of duty won in the end and that seems very remarkable to me. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was most interested in her observation that &amp;quot;The men are very kind to the two yankees&amp;quot; whereas she finds it very hard to do even the most basic things for them. I disagree with Clare that the other soldiers would just see these Union men as &amp;quot;the enemy&amp;quot;. From Bacot&amp;#039;s words as well as from many other sources, we often see soldiers recognizing what they have in common with each other. Not every soldier could or would do this, of course, but many did.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Knowing what the other side went through, these soldiers may have had real respect for one another. On the other hand, Bacot, who had never fought, would not have had that perspective, and so could not respect or care for the wounded enemy soldiers. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Maria Daly, 1862, Northerner in the South (New Orleans) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Maria Daly seems to write about the war in a positive, patriotic light. In that sense, she is very much against the South. She describes, &amp;quot;Southern ladies and gentlemen...are very agreeable people with very finished and courtly manners, but  they are a class utterly unsuited and antagonistic to the principles of out government.&amp;quot; She sees the South as a tyranny. She also states how the women nurses and volunteers are a comfort to the men. However, I am confused by the last paragraph... - Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wonder how Daly ended up stuck in the South during the war! It sounds like she&amp;#039;s writing after the Union had occupied New Orleans, since she describes the Yankees sarcastically as &amp;quot;those barbarous creatures who have done nothing but feed their hungry and clothe their naked since they took their pestilent city.&amp;quot; But it seems like the women who volunteered in the hospitals were dealing with both Northern and Southern soldiers. I thought it was interesting how offended she was that the Southern officers had dinner, but then she mentioned that tea was $16 a pound, and I can&amp;#039;t imagine how expensive a dinner must have been! Maybe it seemed unreasonably extravagant when they were doing something as serious as waiting for prisoners of war. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah Morgan, 1863, Teen diary ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Morgan&amp;#039;s entry demonstrates the support some women gave to the war. She is very excited for the war and wants to join somehow. She thinks of all the ways she can support the Rebel cause with sewing and knitting. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It was interesting to read this excerpt because at the beginning of the war Sarah Morgan did not agree with the war, but her loyalty to the South is what seems to bring her around.  Doing her womanly duties is her way of contributing to the efforts of the war.  She was young and easily influenced by the war propaganda so she felt like it was her duty.  It was a short entry but influential and to see what she went through made me feel sorry for her situation.  –Pam P&lt;br /&gt;
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== Cornelia Hancock, Union Nurse, 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Caroline Kirkland, 1863, defends Northern women’s support of Northern men ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Caroline Kirkland’s entry was such a great example of North vs. South.  I enjoyed the fact that she felt sympathy for the women of the South, and then in the next sentence berated them for not doing everything they could to stop not just their soldier husbands, but also questioned their faith in God.  I thought that Kirkland’s selection was notable because she was a woman and very outspoken about what she witnessed, justified or not. – Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ella Gertrude Clanton Thomas, January 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ella Thomas&amp;#039;s writing on life as a Southern woman in 1865 brings to life how devastating and traumatic the war really was in the south.  Her fury stems from the unjust insanity at the hands of the Union army that is ruining her life as she knows it.  She appears to be at the end of her rope with war and death stating,&amp;quot; I lose faith in humanity when I see such efforts to sink the nobler better part of man&amp;#039;s nature in an effort to exterminate the white race at the South in order to elevate the Negro race to a position which I doubt their ability to fill - The time will come when Southern women will be avenged.&amp;quot; This is a deep quote and I believe it sets the tone for how most Southern women felt during and long after the war.  In the first place most Southerners honestly did not see their actions towards slavery as being wrong and then then they are punished for it by having everything taken from them and destroyed.  This undoubtedly would be a confusing and infuriating time for anyone in the South who had their lives completely destroyed.  Thomas&amp;#039;s writing reveals an intimate example of the tole that the war took on the South and helps to remind that Southerners were more than just wicked slave holders.  --Rachel T.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 13-14 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-01T14:10:14Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching or comparative questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that was a little surprising was the number of slave accounts where they did not find out that they were freed from their masters. This happened in Clarissa Burdett&amp;#039;s account (she just ran away), Fanny Berry&amp;#039;s, and Katie Darling&amp;#039;s. It&amp;#039;s not necessarily surprising that white owners would try to pull that off, but I am wondering what reasons there were for the owners to be able to get away with keeping their slaves for an extended period of time. Was it geographical?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read multiple times of women having problems with farm equipment, the latest being &amp;quot;Loss of male labor, crumbling equipment...&amp;quot; (Woloch 264) It is not in an actual account of the time but in the Woloch&amp;#039;s overview of the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;A Wartime Mistress.&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Why do we see this mentioned so often with women in the South but not the North?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louisa May Alcott, Hospital Sketches, 1862-1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read &amp;quot;Hospital Sketches&amp;quot; in it&amp;#039;s entirety a couple of times and also Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary, and I still am not entirely in agreement that women, as nurses, did not perform medical tasks at all. I do agree that the job was very different from today, when nurses receive medical training, but both Alcott&amp;#039;s book and Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary say that they provided more than just emotional comfort. Again, not like what we see today, but not entirely hands-off, either. I have to admit, having read so much more in-depth than just this one excerpt from her diary, I feel like there&amp;#039;s a lot of information about the role of nurses that&amp;#039;s being left out.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s description of being a Union nurse, it is apparent that women are new to the field of nursing, and even then, their definition of nursing is not what it is today. Alcott writes, &amp;quot;I find real pleasure in comforting, tending, and cheering these poor souls who seem to love me, to feel my sympathy though unspoken, and acknowledge my hearty good-will, in spite of the ignorance, awkwardness, and bashfulness which I cannot help showing in so new and trying a situation.&amp;quot; Alcott&amp;#039;s main role was to keep up the spirits of the men, not doing any actual medical aide. Furthermore, she describeds fulfilling these duties with awkwardness and bashfulness. This is likely because ladies were supposed to be in the home, and if they are out of the home they are certainly not supposed to be dealing with men they are not married to. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s account, I found it interesting to see the change in gender norms for women. While women were now allowed to work outside the house and in Alcott&amp;#039;s case even encouraged, &amp;quot;Shall I stay, Mother?...No, go! and the Lord be with you!&amp;quot; (258). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Her mother encouraged her to go and participate, eventhough she would have been hundreds of miles away, but at the same time, her duties while being a nurse, were still part of the expectation for women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She cooked, and cared for the wounded and sick in a &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; manner, she wrote letters for them rather than actually do any medical treatment. Even though women had similar tasks while being away from the house, they slightly improved the norms for women by getting society to see them as not just an asset to the household. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What makes Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Hospital Sketches&amp;#039;&amp;#039; so valuable to historians today is both the personal and detailed account she provides. Nursing during the Civil War is almost completely different from the modern conception of nursing and was more about bringing emotional comfort to the patients versus physical comfort. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What is amazing about Alcott&amp;#039;s job is the emotional strength she needed to complete her job effectively.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Not many people, men or women, could handle a job which confronts death of a daily basis and the fact that she knew the risks she was putting herself in to do this job shows not only what a great person Alcott was, but how strong all nurses were at this time. --Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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While describing the men she is taking care of, Alcott betrays her understanding of societal gender norms. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In her notes from January of 1863, she mentions a man named John Sulie, who is uncommonly kind and gentle, with &amp;quot;a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s, a nature fresh and frank as any child&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot; (259) Those comparisons imply that a typical man was not expected to be warm- or tender-hearted, and also not frank. That is to say, the average man was cold- or steely-hearted and somewhat devious or deceptive--not a particularly ringing endorsement of men; in a later instance, a doctor caring for Alcott when she falls ill is described as &amp;quot;a motherly little man,&amp;quot; solely because he checks up on Alcott and fusses over her in a matter than seems, apparently, feminine. Additionally, her concerns about looking motherly (and her apparent discomfort when he feels she&amp;#039;s being viewed in a sexualized way by a man she cares for her in December) reinforce her understanding--and Dix&amp;#039;s strong conviction--about the importance of nurses as maternal figures.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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The thing that I found most interesting in this particular passage was Alcott&amp;#039;s definition of gender norms throughout the entire thing. She begins this by hoping that she acts &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; to the patients (pg 259, 2nd paragraph).  However, a couple paragraphs later she distinguishes the types of men by their gendered qualities. For instance, she says, &amp;quot;the men are docile,respectful, and affectionate, with but few exceptions; truly lovable and manly many of them.&amp;quot; She goes on: &amp;quot;. . . a Virginia blacksmith, is the prince of patients. . . a common man in education and condition, to me is all I could expect from the first gentleman in the land. Under his plain speech and unpolished manner I seem to see a noble character, a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot;  This blacksmith was described by both his manliness and also his womanly character--his tender heart. Later, Alcott describes a man as &amp;quot;patient as a woman.&amp;quot; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It is interesting to me that she uses all of these gendered characterizations to describe her patients and also the people who worked in the ward with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alcott reveals a noteworthy level of determination in her decision to be a nurse. She recognizes the reality that death could possibly be impending; however, she sees the need in the hospital and decides to go for it. She mentions the word &amp;quot;comfort&amp;quot; a few times in referencing her role as a comforter of these sick and dying men. When Alcott herself is taken ill, she describes it in close detail and gives us a glimpse into the seriousness of diseases back then and the fear they could cause. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Livermore, [Northern women on farm during war], 1890 -- Woloch and Major Problems readings. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I rather enjoyed this reading.  Mary describes her initial reaction of women in the fields &amp;quot;At first, it displeased me, and I turned away in aversion&amp;quot; (262) yet her curiosity got the best of her.  When her carriage had to stop she approached these women and asked them about their work.  Instead of completely ignoring and dismissing the women she instead questions them, getting first hand insight to why they would be involved in work for men.  This made me think that even though she may not have approved at first, she probably understood and accepted the practice more. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was cool when she discussed how great of a job the women did in the field. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;By and by, I observed how skillfully they drove the horses round and round the wheat-field&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;although they did not keep up with the men, their work was done with more precision and nicety, and their sheaves had an artistic finish that lacked made by men&amp;quot; (262)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. It goes to show that they truly cared about doing the work and perhaps these women weren&amp;#039;t bitter about their husbands not being there to do the work. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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Wow, Mary Livermore writes beautifully. I was impressed by the scale of the efforts she describes, like the 1,000 shirts a day made in Boston - imagine the dedication that would be needed to organize that so quickly and at such a grand scale without Facebook! I also was struck by the seriousness she assigns to things women did like ignoring fashion. That sounds like such a small thing now, but with the amount of fabric needed for bandages and uniforms and the amount of fabric a new dress would have taken at the time, I suppose that actually would have been a significant contribution in and of itself. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think this has been my favorite reading of the semester. There is so much interesting information. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The description of the work clothes that the women were wearing is fantastic, you do not see women dressed like that in photographs of the time period, so it is neat to have the description. Also, I think it was not so much about not following the fashion as it was about common sense. I imagine it would be very hard to plow a field while wearing hoops.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I also imagine the women still had a best dress to wear on Sundays and to other nice events and that they did wear hoops with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also found some of her descriptions very powerful and emotionally striking. &amp;quot;It came very hard on us to let the boys go, but we felt we&amp;#039;d no right to hinder&amp;#039;em. The country needed&amp;#039;em more&amp;#039;n we.&amp;quot; (263) It shows how much patriotism these women had.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
I also loved the when the one girl told &amp;quot;For during the last war in Germany men were so scarce that she had to work three years in a blacksmith&amp;#039;s shop.&amp;quot; (263) Was this really true? Would the German people really have accepted this of their women? Were women in Germany treated differently, given more freedom than American women? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louticia Jackson’s letter in 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louticia Jackson&amp;#039;s letter to her son, she mentions how she took care of one of her slaves, Willes.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Eventhough we&amp;#039;ve learned that slaves are seen as property and therefore any punishment can&amp;#039;t be too harsh because it would then effect the work of the investment. I found it really surprising the way she took care of Willes when he was sick &amp;quot;...he took the fever immediately after wchich lasted some 5 or 6 weeks in which time i attended him closely day and night, bathed and rubbed him with my own hands fearing it would not be faithfully done [otherwise]&amp;quot; (265). Instead of having another female slave take care of Willes, she took it upon herself to take care of him and bath him each night, with her hands.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This is probably a rare case, but it was one that surprised me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Aqsa...Louticia Jackson takes such a personal interest in Willes which seems interesting and out of the norm. However, she was quick to mention at the end of the excerpt that she could &amp;quot;see his evil influence&amp;quot; (265). Obviously, Jackson was still aware of the racial divide and did not see Willes on the same level. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Eva Jones to Mary Jones, her mother-in-law, 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The imagery Eva employed to discuss the experiences of the Confederacy in the postwar period seem to me to be quite liberally applied; her portrayal of the South&amp;#039;s struggles in the wake of the war as &amp;quot;little feeble sickly attempts of virtue... [where] we [are] the chained witnesses&amp;quot; (266) by the &amp;quot;robbery and...unwise policy&amp;quot; (266) of the abolishment of slavery. It seems far-fetched to me that someone could actually conceptualize themselves as the victims in such a clearly false way, but it speaks to the culture and history of the South that it really was seen as the North coming in and robbing the good, hardworking whites of the South of their &amp;quot;property.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s amazing that that a cultural divide could be so wide that this sort of worldview could actually be an honestly-held one. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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These letters were very interesting. Eva expresses her annoyance with the loss of the South to the Union. Her narrative keys in on the emotions that many Southern women must have felt at that time. She is frustrated that her previous way of life has disintegrated. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I think the most poignant section of her letters is when she is describing how her confederate money is of no value. She states, &amp;quot;strange to say, the Yankees won&amp;#039;t take our Confederate money!&amp;quot; Her poverty is almost enforced because the Union government refuses to recognize her money. If the Union had recognized the (valueless) Confederate money would the South have been able to avoid extreme poverty? In addition, how could the Union have given value to the Confederate money in order to maintain classes and status? Would it have been beneficial to maintain these class boundaries to an extent? Or, was it best to completely erase all class and money from the South in order to start over?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Accounts of former slaves, 1865-1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== VA woman, recorded by abolitionist Laura Haviland in 1866 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading this account along with the other accounts about the new emancipation of slaves, the reader is able to grasp fully what it was like the moment the slave received word of their new found freedom. For many of the slaves, I think their biggest concern was their family. This woman was so elated at the news of her freedom that she proceeded to roll on the ground in excitement, and then she spoke of her husband and children that &amp;quot;can neber be&amp;quot; taken. Among many other obvious reasons, I could never imagine living the life of a slave. One of the hardest things I think many slaves had to endure was the constant fear of being separated from their families at any given moment, including their parents, spouses or even children. It is hard to think that these events were taking place only about 150 years ago. --Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Harriet Tubman, from her white female biographer, Sarah Bradford, 1886 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it interesting that Harriet and the others allowed these slaves to bring farm animals, such as pigs and chickens, on board. I&amp;#039;m assuming they brought them in order to trade them for money when they reached their destination. If this really is the case, that was very kind of them to allow them aboard, especially when it may have allowed for more humans if they weren&amp;#039;t there. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Burdett, to notary in Union camp in KY, March 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so horrible! I know that not all slave owners were like this, that this was an extreme, but still this was an extreme and horrible. I think that it takes a lot of courage to run away after that treatment and a great deal of courage to go the camp and ask for help.  The Union Camp did not have to help her, or even listen to her so to even go and tell her story is incredible. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What really hit me was the thought of imagining living in constant fear of being beaten in such away as Clarissa Burdett describes.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I continue to be amazed and disgusted by what humans can and will do to each other. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Fanny Berry, in Weevils in the Wheat, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tennessee Woman, 1929 [TN Nanny] ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that this woman had to be strong throughout her life. She knew she was free but continued to stay for the children, her bond with them must have been great.  The part of her story I found intriguing was that she used the power to &amp;quot;walk away&amp;quot; in stopping the children from being mistreated from their stepmother.  The former master even knew that the children visited their old nanny after she left and gave her food, clothes and money, he must have known how important she was to his children.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Remy that this Tennessee nanny was a very strong figure and it comes through in the text. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; When looking back on emancipation the common perception is of slaves getting out as quickly as possible from the horrors of living under their masters.  This article defies all of that and shows a slave who not only had a strong connection with the family that owned her (minus the stepmom) but was willing to sacrifice her freedom for a time just to be with them.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Through this a unique relationship is defined and is apparent when she talks back to her master and openly acknowledges she knows she is free without fear of repercussions. This is a unique point of view and insightful into the experience of newly found freedom. -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Anderson, NC ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Katie Darling, in TX ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Darling describes a lot of kind of scary things - forced marriages by masters and whippings like we&amp;#039;ve talked about, even after the war before they were released, but also just how close the front was and how much it frightened her mistress. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Imagine what a tense situation that would have been, with violence getting closer every day and the woman who has complete control of your life freaking out about it!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah and Lucy Chase, Teaching the Freedmen, 1866-1868 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I really enjoyed these articles because these women existed as outliers in a nation where race is a decisive issue.  I especially liked the end of the last letter by Sarah Chase to Mr. May &amp;quot;No matter how strict the rules, and wise and kind the teachers plans, for the comfort, and rights of the black scholar; the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;feeling&amp;#039;&amp;#039; of the whites expressd or not -- &amp;#039;&amp;#039;will&amp;#039;&amp;#039; keep the sensitive African away; though he would willingly bear cold, hunger, and whippings if need be--to &amp;#039;get a little larning.&amp;#039; (280)&amp;quot;  This expression of doubt by Sarah Chase bears a reflection of the tension of race relations in the south and other integrated areas.  If I had to choose between feeding and clothing myself or attending college it really would not be a choice.  One can talk about the importance of education until they&amp;#039;re blue in the face, but basic necessities, including safety for these blacks, are ultimately more important. --Sara S. &lt;br /&gt;
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== Susie King Taylor, Reminiscences of My Life in Camp, 1902 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found this article to be particularly interesting. Taylor is a black woman living in the South who speaks of the prospects of equality for the black man and white man, yet never mentions anything regarding a black woman&amp;#039;s equality within this new twentieth century America. Her writings and ideas are definitely ahead of her time and she speaks of a time that will happen soon after her life where the Southland will be more tolerant of blacks and everyone will live equally and sing in harmony. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;When analyzing the context as to when this article was written, it is intersting that Taylor never makes reference to women deserving equality (considering this was a time when the Women&amp;#039;s Suffrage Movement was gaining popularity)but instead only makes reference to black men deserving it.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It is almost as if she is focusing on one problem at a time and once the initial problem of race is fixed, then they can focus on the women. -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ada Bacot, Confederate Nurse, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I found Ada Bacot&amp;#039;s comments on Two Wounded Yankees extremely interesting. She is a Confederate nurse, and yet she feels she has a duty to treat them. She describes them as human beings, something her male counterparts would likely gloss over and simply describe them as the enemy. But Ada feels pity, and although she doesn&amp;#039;t like it, she helps the soldiers. This is likely due to the role of women as being caretakers and motherly. She continues to fill that role regardless of the color of the men&amp;#039;s uniforms. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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I completely agree with Clare on this.  This document made me feel really empathetic towards the people fighting in the Civil War.  It&amp;#039;s easy to paint the picture of Southerners being barbaric slave owners and Northerners being too concerned with industrialization and profit to care about the lives of humans, but here it is a confederate woman who isn&amp;#039;t fighting for slavery or against industrialization, but is fighting to keep dying men alive.  &amp;quot;I can&amp;#039;t help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.  They are our enemys too, wounded and in our power.  It will be hard to treat them as I do the other men but I know it is my duty.  The heat is almost over powering. (202)&amp;quot; This makes the war human, and having been in Charlottesville for the summer months before, I can only imagine how awful the hospital smelled and felt especially without air-conditioning. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ada Bacot demonstrates the conflict of ideologies within war. It is not black and white for Bacot. She, a Confederate nurse,  helps Yankees because she &amp;quot;cant help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.&amp;quot; As she is supporting the Confederate forces, she is forced to take care of the &amp;quot;enemy.&amp;quot; --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found this piece to be extremely interesting. Reading her diary entries, you can almost feel the discomfort from having these Union soldiers. But then she writes, “It will be hard to treat them as I do other men but I know that it is my duty.” (pg 202) Her sense of duty won in the end and that seems very remarkable to me. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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I was most interested in her observation that &amp;quot;The men are very kind to the two yankees&amp;quot; whereas she finds it very hard to do even the most basic things for them. I disagree with Clare that the other soldiers would just see these Union men as &amp;quot;the enemy&amp;quot;. From Bacot&amp;#039;s words as well as from many other sources, we often see soldiers recognizing what they have in common with each other. Not every soldier could or would do this, of course, but many did. Knowing what the other side went through, these soldiers may have had real respect for one another. On the other hand, Bacot, who had never fought, would not have had that perspective, and so could not respect or care for the wounded enemy soldiers. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Maria Daly, 1862, Northerner in the South (New Orleans) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Maria Daly seems to write about the war in a positive, patriotic light. In that sense, she is very much against the South. She describes, &amp;quot;Southern ladies and gentlemen...are very agreeable people with very finished and courtly manners, but  they are a class utterly unsuited and antagonistic to the principles of out government.&amp;quot; She sees the South as a tyranny. She also states how the women nurses and volunteers are a comfort to the men. However, I am confused by the last paragraph... - Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wonder how Daly ended up stuck in the South during the war! It sounds like she&amp;#039;s writing after the Union had occupied New Orleans, since she describes the Yankees sarcastically as &amp;quot;those barbarous creatures who have done nothing but feed their hungry and clothe their naked since they took their pestilent city.&amp;quot; But it seems like the women who volunteered in the hospitals were dealing with both Northern and Southern soldiers. I thought it was interesting how offended she was that the Southern officers had dinner, but then she mentioned that tea was $16 a pound, and I can&amp;#039;t imagine how expensive a dinner must have been! Maybe it seemed unreasonably extravagant when they were doing something as serious as waiting for prisoners of war. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah Morgan, 1863, Teen diary ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Morgan&amp;#039;s entry demonstrates the support some women gave to the war. She is very excited for the war and wants to join somehow. She thinks of all the ways she can support the Rebel cause with sewing and knitting. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It was interesting to read this excerpt because at the beginning of the war Sarah Morgan did not agree with the war, but her loyalty to the South is what seems to bring her around.  Doing her womanly duties is her way of contributing to the efforts of the war.  She was young and easily influenced by the war propaganda so she felt like it was her duty.  It was a short entry but influential and to see what she went through made me feel sorry for her situation.  –Pam P&lt;br /&gt;
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== Cornelia Hancock, Union Nurse, 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Caroline Kirkland, 1863, defends Northern women’s support of Northern men ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Caroline Kirkland’s entry was such a great example of North vs. South.  I enjoyed the fact that she felt sympathy for the women of the South, and then in the next sentence berated them for not doing everything they could to stop not just their soldier husbands, but also questioned their faith in God.  I thought that Kirkland’s selection was notable because she was a woman and very outspoken about what she witnessed, justified or not. – Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ella Gertrude Clanton Thomas, January 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ella Thomas&amp;#039;s writing on life as a Southern woman in 1865 brings to life how devastating and traumatic the war really was in the south.  Her fury stems from the unjust insanity at the hands of the Union army that is ruining her life as she knows it.  She appears to be at the end of her rope with war and death stating,&amp;quot; I lose faith in humanity when I see such efforts to sink the nobler better part of man&amp;#039;s nature in an effort to exterminate the white race at the South in order to elevate the Negro race to a position which I doubt their ability to fill - The time will come when Southern women will be avenged.&amp;quot; This is a deep quote and I believe it sets the tone for how most Southern women felt during and long after the war.  In the first place most Southerners honestly did not see their actions towards slavery as being wrong and then then they are punished for it by having everything taken from them and destroyed.  This undoubtedly would be a confusing and infuriating time for anyone in the South who had their lives completely destroyed.  Thomas&amp;#039;s writing reveals an intimate example of the tole that the war took on the South and helps to remind that Southerners were more than just wicked slave holders.  --Rachel T.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 13-14 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-01T14:03:20Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching or comparative questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One thing that was a little surprising was the number of slave accounts where they did not find out that they were freed from their masters. This happened in Clarissa Burdett&amp;#039;s account (she just ran away), Fanny Berry&amp;#039;s, and Katie Darling&amp;#039;s. It&amp;#039;s not necessarily surprising that white owners would try to pull that off, but I am wondering what reasons there were for the owners to be able to get away with keeping their slaves for an extended period of time. Was it geographical?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read multiple times of women having problems with farm equipment, the latest being &amp;quot;Loss of male labor, crumbling equipment...&amp;quot; (Woloch 264) It is not in an actual account of the time but in the Woloch&amp;#039;s overview of the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;A Wartime Mistress.&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Why do we see this mentioned so often with women in the South but not the North?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louisa May Alcott, Hospital Sketches, 1862-1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I have read &amp;quot;Hospital Sketches&amp;quot; in it&amp;#039;s entirety a couple of times and also Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary, and I still am not entirely in agreement that women, as nurses, did not perform medical tasks at all. I do agree that the job was very different from today, when nurses receive medical training, but both Alcott&amp;#039;s book and Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary say that they provided more than just emotional comfort. Again, not like what we see today, but not entirely hands-off, either. I have to admit, having read so much more in-depth than just this one excerpt from her diary, I feel like there&amp;#039;s a lot of information about the role of nurses that&amp;#039;s being left out.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s description of being a Union nurse, it is apparent that women are new to the field of nursing, and even then, their definition of nursing is not what it is today. Alcott writes, &amp;quot;I find real pleasure in comforting, tending, and cheering these poor souls who seem to love me, to feel my sympathy though unspoken, and acknowledge my hearty good-will, in spite of the ignorance, awkwardness, and bashfulness which I cannot help showing in so new and trying a situation.&amp;quot; Alcott&amp;#039;s main role was to keep up the spirits of the men, not doing any actual medical aide. Furthermore, she describeds fulfilling these duties with awkwardness and bashfulness. This is likely because ladies were supposed to be in the home, and if they are out of the home they are certainly not supposed to be dealing with men they are not married to. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s account, I found it interesting to see the change in gender norms for women. While women were now allowed to work outside the house and in Alcott&amp;#039;s case even encouraged, &amp;quot;Shall I stay, Mother?...No, go! and the Lord be with you!&amp;quot; (258). &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Her mother encouraged her to go and participate, eventhough she would have been hundreds of miles away, but at the same time, her duties while being a nurse, were still part of the expectation for women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; She cooked, and cared for the wounded and sick in a &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; manner, she wrote letters for them rather than actually do any medical treatment. Even though women had similar tasks while being away from the house, they slightly improved the norms for women by getting society to see them as not just an asset to the household. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What makes Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Hospital Sketches&amp;#039;&amp;#039; so valuable to historians today is both the personal and detailed account she provides. Nursing during the Civil War is almost completely different from the modern conception of nursing and was more about bringing emotional comfort to the patients versus physical comfort. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What is amazing about Alcott&amp;#039;s job is the emotional strength she needed to complete her job effectively.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Not many people, men or women, could handle a job which confronts death of a daily basis and the fact that she knew the risks she was putting herself in to do this job shows not only what a great person Alcott was, but how strong all nurses were at this time. --Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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While describing the men she is taking care of, Alcott betrays her understanding of societal gender norms. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In her notes from January of 1863, she mentions a man named John Sulie, who is uncommonly kind and gentle, with &amp;quot;a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s, a nature fresh and frank as any child&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot; (259) Those comparisons imply that a typical man was not expected to be warm- or tender-hearted, and also not frank. That is to say, the average man was cold- or steely-hearted and somewhat devious or deceptive--not a particularly ringing endorsement of men; in a later instance, a doctor caring for Alcott when she falls ill is described as &amp;quot;a motherly little man,&amp;quot; solely because he checks up on Alcott and fusses over her in a matter than seems, apparently, feminine. Additionally, her concerns about looking motherly (and her apparent discomfort when he feels she&amp;#039;s being viewed in a sexualized way by a man she cares for her in December) reinforce her understanding--and Dix&amp;#039;s strong conviction--about the importance of nurses as maternal figures.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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The thing that I found most interesting in this particular passage was Alcott&amp;#039;s definition of gender norms throughout the entire thing. She begins this by hoping that she acts &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; to the patients (pg 259, 2nd paragraph).  However, a couple paragraphs later she distinguishes the types of men by their gendered qualities. For instance, she says, &amp;quot;the men are docile,respectful, and affectionate, with but few exceptions; truly lovable and manly many of them.&amp;quot; She goes on: &amp;quot;. . . a Virginia blacksmith, is the prince of patients. . . a common man in education and condition, to me is all I could expect from the first gentleman in the land. Under his plain speech and unpolished manner I seem to see a noble character, a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot;  This blacksmith was described by both his manliness and also his womanly character--his tender heart. Later, Alcott describes a man as &amp;quot;patient as a woman.&amp;quot; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It is interesting to me that she uses all of these gendered characterizations to describe her patients and also the people who worked in the ward with her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alcott reveals a noteworthy level of determination in her decision to be a nurse. She recognizes the reality that death could possibly be impending; however, she sees the need in the hospital and decides to go for it. She mentions the word &amp;quot;comfort&amp;quot; a few times in referencing her role as a comforter of these sick and dying men. When Alcott herself is taken ill, she describes it in close detail and gives us a glimpse into the seriousness of diseases back then and the fear they could cause. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Livermore, [Northern women on farm during war], 1890 -- Woloch and Major Problems readings. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I rather enjoyed this reading.  Mary describes her initial reaction of women in the fields &amp;quot;At first, it displeased me, and I turned away in aversion&amp;quot; (262) yet her curiosity got the best of her.  When her carriage had to stop she approached these women and asked them about their work.  Instead of completely ignoring and dismissing the women she instead questions them, getting first hand insight to why they would be involved in work for men.  This made me think that even though she may not have approved at first, she probably understood and accepted the practice more. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was cool when she discussed how great of a job the women did in the field. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;By and by, I observed how skillfully they drove the horses round and round the wheat-field&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;although they did not keep up with the men, their work was done with more precision and nicety, and their sheaves had an artistic finish that lacked made by men&amp;quot; (262)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. It goes to show that they truly cared about doing the work and perhaps these women weren&amp;#039;t bitter about their husbands not being there to do the work. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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Wow, Mary Livermore writes beautifully. I was impressed by the scale of the efforts she describes, like the 1,000 shirts a day made in Boston - imagine the dedication that would be needed to organize that so quickly and at such a grand scale without Facebook! I also was struck by the seriousness she assigns to things women did like ignoring fashion. That sounds like such a small thing now, but with the amount of fabric needed for bandages and uniforms and the amount of fabric a new dress would have taken at the time, I suppose that actually would have been a significant contribution in and of itself. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think this has been my favorite reading of the semester. There is so much interesting information. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The description of the work clothes that the women were wearing is fantastic, you do not see women dressed like that in photographs of the time period, so it is neat to have the description. Also, I think it was not so much about not following the fashion as it was about common sense. I imagine it would be very hard to plow a field while wearing hoops.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I also imagine the women still had a best dress to wear on Sundays and to other nice events and that they did wear hoops with it.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also found some of her descriptions very powerful and emotionally striking. &amp;quot;It came very hard on us to let the boys go, but we felt we&amp;#039;d no right to hinder&amp;#039;em. The country needed&amp;#039;em more&amp;#039;n we.&amp;quot; (263) It shows how much patriotism these women had.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
I also loved the when the one girl told &amp;quot;For during the last war in Germany men were so scarce that she had to work three years in a blacksmith&amp;#039;s shop.&amp;quot; (263) Was this really true? Would the German people really have accepted this of their women? Were women in Germany treated differently, given more freedom than American women? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louticia Jackson’s letter in 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louticia Jackson&amp;#039;s letter to her son, she mentions how she took care of one of her slaves, Willes.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Eventhough we&amp;#039;ve learned that slaves are seen as property and therefore any punishment can&amp;#039;t be too harsh because it would then effect the work of the investment. I found it really surprising the way she took care of Willes when he was sick &amp;quot;...he took the fever immediately after wchich lasted some 5 or 6 weeks in which time i attended him closely day and night, bathed and rubbed him with my own hands fearing it would not be faithfully done [otherwise]&amp;quot; (265). Instead of having another female slave take care of Willes, she took it upon herself to take care of him and bath him each night, with her hands.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This is probably a rare case, but it was one that surprised me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Aqsa...Louticia Jackson takes such a personal interest in Willes which seems interesting and out of the norm. However, she was quick to mention at the end of the excerpt that she could &amp;quot;see his evil influence&amp;quot; (265). Obviously, Jackson was still aware of the racial divide and did not see Willes on the same level. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Eva Jones to Mary Jones, her mother-in-law, 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The imagery Eva employed to discuss the experiences of the Confederacy in the postwar period seem to me to be quite liberally applied; her portrayal of the South&amp;#039;s struggles in the wake of the war as &amp;quot;little feeble sickly attempts of virtue... [where] we [are] the chained witnesses&amp;quot; (266) by the &amp;quot;robbery and...unwise policy&amp;quot; (266) of the abolishment of slavery. It seems far-fetched to me that someone could actually conceptualize themselves as the victims in such a clearly false way, but it speaks to the culture and history of the South that it really was seen as the North coming in and robbing the good, hardworking whites of the South of their &amp;quot;property.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It&amp;#039;s amazing that that a cultural divide could be so wide that this sort of worldview could actually be an honestly-held one. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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These letters were very interesting. Eva expresses her annoyance with the loss of the South to the Union. Her narrative keys in on the emotions that many Southern women must have felt at that time. She is frustrated that her previous way of life has disintegrated. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I think the most poignant section of her letters is when she is describing how her confederate money is of no value. She states, &amp;quot;strange to say, the Yankees won&amp;#039;t take our Confederate money!&amp;quot; Her poverty is almost enforced because the Union government refuses to recognize her money. If the Union had recognized the (valueless) Confederate money would the South have been able to avoid extreme poverty? In addition, how could the Union have given value to the Confederate money in order to maintain classes and status? Would it have been beneficial to maintain these class boundaries to an extent? Or, was it best to completely erase all class and money from the South in order to start over?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Accounts of former slaves, 1865-1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== VA woman, recorded by abolitionist Laura Haviland in 1866 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading this account along with the other accounts about the new emancipation of slaves, the reader is able to grasp fully what it was like the moment the slave received word of their new found freedom. For many of the slaves, I think their biggest concern was their family. This woman was so elated at the news of her freedom that she proceeded to roll on the ground in excitement, and then she spoke of her husband and children that &amp;quot;can neber be&amp;quot; taken. Among many other obvious reasons, I could never imagine living the life of a slave. One of the hardest things I think many slaves had to endure was the constant fear of being separated from their families at any given moment, including their parents, spouses or even children. It is hard to think that these events were taking place only about 150 years ago. --Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Harriet Tubman, from her white female biographer, Sarah Bradford, 1886 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it interesting that Harriet and the others allowed these slaves to bring farm animals, such as pigs and chickens, on board. I&amp;#039;m assuming they brought them in order to trade them for money when they reached their destination. If this really is the case, that was very kind of them to allow them aboard, especially when it may have allowed for more humans if they weren&amp;#039;t there. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Burdett, to notary in Union camp in KY, March 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so horrible! I know that not all slave owners were like this, that this was an extreme, but still this was an extreme and horrible. I think that it takes a lot of courage to run away after that treatment and a great deal of courage to go the camp and ask for help.  The Union Camp did not have to help her, or even listen to her so to even go and tell her story is incredible. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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What really hit me was the thought of imagining living in constant fear of being beaten in such away as Clarissa Burdett describes. I continue to be amazed and disgusted by what humans can and will do to each other. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Fanny Berry, in Weevils in the Wheat, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tennessee Woman, 1929 [TN Nanny] ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that this woman had to be strong throughout her life. She knew she was free but continued to stay for the children, her bond with them must have been great.  The part of her story I found intriguing was that she used the power to &amp;quot;walk away&amp;quot; in stopping the children from being mistreated from their stepmother.  The former master even knew that the children visited their old nanny after she left and gave her food, clothes and money, he must have known how important she was to his children.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Remy that this Tennessee nanny was a very strong figure and it comes through in the text.  When looking back on emancipation the common perception is of slaves getting out as quickly as possible from the horrors of living under their masters.  This article defies all of that and shows a slave who not only had a strong connection with the family that owned her (minus the stepmom) but was willing to sacrifice her freedom for a time just to be with them.  Through this a unique relationship is defined and is apparent when she talks back to her master and openly acknowledges she knows she is free without fear of repercussions. This is a unique point of view and insightful into the experience of newly found freedom. -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Anderson, NC ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Katie Darling, in TX ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Darling describes a lot of kind of scary things - forced marriages by masters and whippings like we&amp;#039;ve talked about, even after the war before they were released, but also just how close the front was and how much it frightened her mistress. Imagine what a tense situation that would have been, with violence getting closer every day and the woman who has complete control of your life freaking out about it! -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah and Lucy Chase, Teaching the Freedmen, 1866-1868 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I really enjoyed these articles because these women existed as outliers in a nation where race is a decisive issue.  I especially liked the end of the last letter by Sarah Chase to Mr. May &amp;quot;No matter how strict the rules, and wise and kind the teachers plans, for the comfort, and rights of the black scholar; the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;feeling&amp;#039;&amp;#039; of the whites expressd or not -- &amp;#039;&amp;#039;will&amp;#039;&amp;#039; keep the sensitive African away; though he would willingly bear cold, hunger, and whippings if need be--to &amp;#039;get a little larning.&amp;#039; (280)&amp;quot;  This expression of doubt by Sarah Chase bears a reflection of the tension of race relations in the south and other integrated areas.  If I had to choose between feeding and clothing myself or attending college it really would not be a choice.  One can talk about the importance of education until they&amp;#039;re blue in the face, but basic necessities, including safety for these blacks, are ultimately more important. --Sara S. &lt;br /&gt;
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== Susie King Taylor, Reminiscences of My Life in Camp, 1902 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found this article to be particularly interesting. Taylor is a black woman living in the South who speaks of the prospects of equality for the black man and white man, yet never mentions anything regarding a black woman&amp;#039;s equality within this new twentieth century America. Her writings and ideas are definitely ahead of her time and she speaks of a time that will happen soon after her life where the Southland will be more tolerant of blacks and everyone will live equally and sing in harmony. When analyzing the context as to when this article was written, it is intersting that Taylor never makes reference to women deserving equality (considering this was a time when the Women&amp;#039;s Suffrage Movement was gaining popularity)but instead only makes reference to black men deserving it. It is almost as if she is focusing on one problem at a time and once the initial problem of race is fixed, then they can focus on the women. -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ada Bacot, Confederate Nurse, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I found Ada Bacot&amp;#039;s comments on Two Wounded Yankees extremely interesting. She is a Confederate nurse, and yet she feels she has a duty to treat them. She describes them as human beings, something her male counterparts would likely gloss over and simply describe them as the enemy. But Ada feels pity, and although she doesn&amp;#039;t like it, she helps the soldiers. This is likely due to the role of women as being caretakers and motherly. She continues to fill that role regardless of the color of the men&amp;#039;s uniforms. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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I completely agree with Clare on this.  This document made me feel really empathetic towards the people fighting in the Civil War.  It&amp;#039;s easy to paint the picture of Southerners being barbaric slave owners and Northerners being too concerned with industrialization and profit to care about the lives of humans, but here it is a confederate woman who isn&amp;#039;t fighting for slavery or against industrialization, but is fighting to keep dying men alive.  &amp;quot;I can&amp;#039;t help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.  They are our enemys too, wounded and in our power.  It will be hard to treat them as I do the other men but I know it is my duty.  The heat is almost over powering. (202)&amp;quot; This makes the war human, and having been in Charlottesville for the summer months before, I can only imagine how awful the hospital smelled and felt especially without air-conditioning. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Ada Bacot demonstrates the conflict of ideologies within war. It is not black and white for Bacot. She, a Confederate nurse,  helps Yankees because she &amp;quot;cant help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.&amp;quot; As she is supporting the Confederate forces, she is forced to take care of the &amp;quot;enemy.&amp;quot; --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found this piece to be extremely interesting. Reading her diary entries, you can almost feel the discomfort from having these Union soldiers. But then she writes, “It will be hard to treat them as I do other men but I know that it is my duty.” (pg 202) Her sense of duty won in the end and that seems very remarkable to me. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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I was most interested in her observation that &amp;quot;The men are very kind to the two yankees&amp;quot; whereas she finds it very hard to do even the most basic things for them. I disagree with Clare that the other soldiers would just see these Union men as &amp;quot;the enemy&amp;quot;. From Bacot&amp;#039;s words as well as from many other sources, we often see soldiers recognizing what they have in common with each other. Not every soldier could or would do this, of course, but many did. Knowing what the other side went through, these soldiers may have had real respect for one another. On the other hand, Bacot, who had never fought, would not have had that perspective, and so could not respect or care for the wounded enemy soldiers. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Maria Daly, 1862, Northerner in the South (New Orleans) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Maria Daly seems to write about the war in a positive, patriotic light. In that sense, she is very much against the South. She describes, &amp;quot;Southern ladies and gentlemen...are very agreeable people with very finished and courtly manners, but  they are a class utterly unsuited and antagonistic to the principles of out government.&amp;quot; She sees the South as a tyranny. She also states how the women nurses and volunteers are a comfort to the men. However, I am confused by the last paragraph... - Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wonder how Daly ended up stuck in the South during the war! It sounds like she&amp;#039;s writing after the Union had occupied New Orleans, since she describes the Yankees sarcastically as &amp;quot;those barbarous creatures who have done nothing but feed their hungry and clothe their naked since they took their pestilent city.&amp;quot; But it seems like the women who volunteered in the hospitals were dealing with both Northern and Southern soldiers. I thought it was interesting how offended she was that the Southern officers had dinner, but then she mentioned that tea was $16 a pound, and I can&amp;#039;t imagine how expensive a dinner must have been! Maybe it seemed unreasonably extravagant when they were doing something as serious as waiting for prisoners of war. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sarah Morgan, 1863, Teen diary ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Morgan&amp;#039;s entry demonstrates the support some women gave to the war. She is very excited for the war and wants to join somehow. She thinks of all the ways she can support the Rebel cause with sewing and knitting. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It was interesting to read this excerpt because at the beginning of the war Sarah Morgan did not agree with the war, but her loyalty to the South is what seems to bring her around.  Doing her womanly duties is her way of contributing to the efforts of the war.  She was young and easily influenced by the war propaganda so she felt like it was her duty.  It was a short entry but influential and to see what she went through made me feel sorry for her situation.  –Pam P&lt;br /&gt;
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== Cornelia Hancock, Union Nurse, 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== Caroline Kirkland, 1863, defends Northern women’s support of Northern men ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Caroline Kirkland’s entry was such a great example of North vs. South.  I enjoyed the fact that she felt sympathy for the women of the South, and then in the next sentence berated them for not doing everything they could to stop not just their soldier husbands, but also questioned their faith in God.  I thought that Kirkland’s selection was notable because she was a woman and very outspoken about what she witnessed, justified or not. – Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Ella Gertrude Clanton Thomas, January 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Ella Thomas&amp;#039;s writing on life as a Southern woman in 1865 brings to life how devastating and traumatic the war really was in the south.  Her fury stems from the unjust insanity at the hands of the Union army that is ruining her life as she knows it.  She appears to be at the end of her rope with war and death stating,&amp;quot; I lose faith in humanity when I see such efforts to sink the nobler better part of man&amp;#039;s nature in an effort to exterminate the white race at the South in order to elevate the Negro race to a position which I doubt their ability to fill - The time will come when Southern women will be avenged.&amp;quot; This is a deep quote and I believe it sets the tone for how most Southern women felt during and long after the war.  In the first place most Southerners honestly did not see their actions towards slavery as being wrong and then then they are punished for it by having everything taken from them and destroyed.  This undoubtedly would be a confusing and infuriating time for anyone in the South who had their lives completely destroyed.  Thomas&amp;#039;s writing reveals an intimate example of the tole that the war took on the South and helps to remind that Southerners were more than just wicked slave holders.  --Rachel T.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 13-14 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-12-01T13:15:53Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Overarching or comparative questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
One thing that was a little surprising was the number of slave accounts where they did not find out that they were freed from their masters. This happened in Clarissa Burdett&amp;#039;s account (she just ran away), Fanny Berry&amp;#039;s, and Katie Darling&amp;#039;s. It&amp;#039;s not necessarily surprising that white owners would try to pull that off, but I am wondering what reasons there were for the owners to be able to get away with keeping their slaves for an extended period of time. Was it geographical? --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems that I have read multiple times of women having problems with farm equipment, the latest being &amp;quot;Loss of male labor, crumbling equipment...&amp;quot; (Woloch 264) It is not in an actual account of the time but in the Woloch&amp;#039;s overview of the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;A Wartime Mistress.&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Why do we see this mentioned so often with women in the South but not the North? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louisa May Alcott, Hospital Sketches, 1862-1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s description of being a Union nurse, it is apparent that women are new to the field of nursing, and even then, their definition of nursing is not what it is today. Alcott writes, &amp;quot;I find real pleasure in comforting, tending, and cheering these poor souls who seem to love me, to feel my sympathy though unspoken, and acknowledge my hearty good-will, in spite of the ignorance, awkwardness, and bashfulness which I cannot help showing in so new and trying a situation.&amp;quot; Alcott&amp;#039;s main role was to keep up the spirits of the men, not doing any actual medical aide. Furthermore, she describeds fulfilling these duties with awkwardness and bashfulness. This is likely because ladies were supposed to be in the home, and if they are out of the home they are certainly not supposed to be dealing with men they are not married to. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s account, I found it interesting to see the change in gender norms for women. While women were now allowed to work outside the house and in Alcott&amp;#039;s case even encouraged, &amp;quot;Shall I stay, Mother?...No, go! and the Lord be with you!&amp;quot; (258). Her mother encouraged her to go and participate, eventhough she would have been hundreds of miles away, but at the same time, her duties while being a nurse, were still part of the expectation for women. She cooked, and cared for the wounded and sick in a &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; manner, she wrote letters for them rather than actually do any medical treatment. Even though women had similar tasks while being away from the house, they slightly improved the norms for women by getting society to see them as not just an asset to the household. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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What makes Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Hospital Sketches&amp;#039;&amp;#039; so valuable to historians today is both the personal and detailed account she provides. Nursing during the Civil War is almost completely different from the modern conception of nursing and was more about bringing emotional comfort to the patients versus physical comfort. What is amazing about Alcott&amp;#039;s job is the emotional strength she needed to complete her job effectively. Not many people, men or women, could handle a job which confronts death of a daily basis and the fact that she knew the risks she was putting herself in to do this job shows not only what a great person Alcott was, but how strong all nurses were at this time. --Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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While describing the men she is taking care of, Alcott betrays her understanding of societal gender norms. In her notes from January of 1963, she mentions a man named John Sulie, who is uncommonly kind and gentle, with &amp;quot;a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s, a nature fresh and frank as any child&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot; (259) Those comparisons imply that a typical man was not expected to be warm- or tender-hearted, and also not frank. That is to say, the average man was cold- or steely-hearted and somewhat devious or deceptive--not a particularly ringing endorsement of men; in a later instance, a doctor caring for Alcott when she falls ill is described as &amp;quot;a motherly little man,&amp;quot; solely because he checks up on Alcott and fusses over her in a matter than seems, apparently, feminine. Additionally, her concerns about looking motherly (and her apparent discomfort when he feels she&amp;#039;s being viewed in a sexualized way by a man she cares for her in December) reinforce her understanding--and Dix&amp;#039;s strong conviction--about the importance of nurses as maternal figures.  -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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The thing that I found most interesting in this particular passage was Alcott&amp;#039;s definition of gender norms throughout the entire thing. She begins this by hoping that she acts &amp;quot;motherly&amp;quot; to the patients (pg 259, 2nd paragraph).  However, a couple paragraphs later she distinguishes the types of men by their gendered qualities. For instance, she says, &amp;quot;the men are docile,respectful, and affectionate, with but few exceptions; truly lovable and manly many of them.&amp;quot; She goes on: &amp;quot;. . . a Virginia blacksmith, is the prince of patients. . . a common man in education and condition, to me is all I could expect from the first gentleman in the land. Under his plain speech and unpolished manner I seem to see a noble character, a heart as warm and tender as a woman&amp;#039;s.&amp;quot;  This blacksmith was described by both his manliness and also his womanly character--his tender heart. Later, Alcott describes a man as &amp;quot;patient as a woman.&amp;quot; It is interesting to me that she uses all of these gendered characterizations to describe her patients and also the people who worked in the ward with her. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have read &amp;quot;Hospital Sketches&amp;quot; in it&amp;#039;s entirety a couple of times and also Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary, and I still am not entirely in agreement that women, as nurses, did not perform medical tasks at all. I do agree that the job was very different from today, when nurses receive medical training, but both Alcott&amp;#039;s book and Hannah Ropes&amp;#039; diary say that they provided more than just emotional comfort. Again, not like what we see today, but not entirely hands-off, either. I have to admit, having read so much more in-depth than just this one excerpt from her diary, I feel like there&amp;#039;s a lot of information about the role of nurses that&amp;#039;s being left out.  --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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Alcott reveals a noteworthy level of determination in her decision to be a nurse. She recognizes the reality that death could possibly be impending; however, she sees the need in the hospital and decides to go for it. She mentions the word &amp;quot;comfort&amp;quot; a few times in referencing her role as a comforter of these sick and dying men. When Alcott herself is taken ill, she describes it in close detail and gives us a glimpse into the seriousness of diseases back then and the fear they could cause. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mary Livermore, [Northern women on farm during war], 1890 -- Woloch and Major Problems readings. ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I rather enjoyed this reading.  Mary describes her initial reaction of women in the fields &amp;quot;At first, it displeased me, and I turned away in aversion&amp;quot; (262) yet her curiosity got the best of her.  When her carriage had to stop she approached these women and asked them about their work.  Instead of completely ignoring and dismissing the women she instead questions them, getting first hand insight to why they would be involved in work for men.  This made me think that even though she may not have approved at first, she probably understood and accepted the practice more. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was cool when she discussed how great of a job the women did in the field. &amp;quot;By and by, I observed how skillfully they drove the horses round and round the wheat-field&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;although they did not keep up with the men, their work was done with more precision and nicety, and their sheaves had an artistic finish that lacked made by men&amp;quot; (262). It goes to show that they truly cared about doing the work and perhaps these women weren&amp;#039;t bitter about their husbands not being there to do the work. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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Wow, Mary Livermore writes beautifully. I was impressed by the scale of the efforts she describes, like the 1,000 shirts a day made in Boston - imagine the dedication that would be needed to organize that so quickly and at such a grand scale without Facebook! I also was struck by the seriousness she assigns to things women did like ignoring fashion. That sounds like such a small thing now, but with the amount of fabric needed for bandages and uniforms and the amount of fabric a new dress would have taken at the time, I suppose that actually would have been a significant contribution in and of itself. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think this has been my favorite reading of the semester. There is so much interesting information. The description of the work clothes that the women were wearing is fantastic, you do not see women dressed like that in photographs of the time period, so it is neat to have the description. Also, I think it was not so much about not following the fashion as it was about common sense. I imagine it would be very hard to plow a field while wearing hoops. I also imagine the women still had a best dress to wear on Sundays and to other nice events and that they did wear hoops with it.&lt;br /&gt;
I also found some of her descriptions very powerful and emotionally striking. &amp;quot;It came very hard on us to let the boys go, but we felt we&amp;#039;d no right to hinder&amp;#039;em. The country needed&amp;#039;em more&amp;#039;n we.&amp;quot; (263) It shows how much patriotism these women had.&lt;br /&gt;
I also loved the when the one girl told &amp;quot;For during the last war in Germany men were so scarce that she had to work three years in a blacksmith&amp;#039;s shop.&amp;quot; (263) Was this really true? Would the German people really have accepted this of their women? Were women in Germany treated differently, given more freedom than American women? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Louticia Jackson’s letter in 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In Louticia Jackson&amp;#039;s letter to her son, she mentions how she took care of one of her slaves, Willes. Eventhough we&amp;#039;ve learned that slaves are seen as property and therefore any punishment can&amp;#039;t be too harsh because it would then effect the work of the investment. I found it really surprising the way she took care of Willes when he was sick &amp;quot;...he took the fever immediately after wchich lasted some 5 or 6 weeks in which time i attended him closely day and night, bathed and rubbed him with my own hands fearing it would not be faithfully done [otherwise]&amp;quot; (265). Instead of having another female slave take care of Willes, she took it upon herself to take care of him and bath him each night, with her hands. This is probably a rare case, but it was one that surprised me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Aqsa...Louticia Jackson takes such a personal interest in Willes which seems interesting and out of the norm. However, she was quick to mention at the end of the excerpt that she could &amp;quot;see his evil influence&amp;quot; (265). Obviously, Jackson was still aware of the racial divide and did not see Willes on the same level. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Eva Jones to Mary Jones, her mother-in-law, 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The imagery Eva employed to discuss the experiences of the Confederacy in the postwar period seem to me to be quite liberally applied; her portrayal of the South&amp;#039;s struggles in the wake of the war as &amp;quot;little feeble sickly attempts of virtue... [where] we [are] the chained witnesses&amp;quot; (266) by the &amp;quot;robbery and...unwise policy&amp;quot; (266) of the abolishment of slavery. It seems far-fetched to me that someone could actually conceptualize themselves as the victims in such a clearly false way, but it speaks to the culture and history of the South that it really was seen as the North coming in and robbing the good, hardworking whites of the South of their &amp;quot;property.&amp;quot; It&amp;#039;s amazing that that a cultural divide could be so wide that this sort of worldview could actually be an honestly-held one. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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These letters were very interesting. Eva expresses her annoyance with the loss of the South to the Union. Her narrative keys in on the emotions that many Southern women must have felt at that time. She is frustrated that her previous way of life has disintegrated. I think the most poignant section of her letters is when she is describing how her confederate money is of no value. She states, &amp;quot;strange to say, the Yankees won&amp;#039;t take our Confederate money!&amp;quot; Her poverty is almost enforced because the Union government refuses to recognize her money. If the Union had recognized the (valueless) Confederate money would the South have been able to avoid extreme poverty? In addition, how could the Union have given value to the Confederate money in order to maintain classes and status? Would it have been beneficial to maintain these class boundaries to an extent? Or, was it best to completely erase all class and money from the South in order to start over? -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Accounts of former slaves, 1865-1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== VA woman, recorded by abolitionist Laura Haviland in 1866 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading this account along with the other accounts about the new emancipation of slaves, the reader is able to grasp fully what it was like the moment the slave received word of their new found freedom. For many of the slaves, I think their biggest concern was their family. This woman was so elated at the news of her freedom that she proceeded to roll on the ground in excitement, and then she spoke of her husband and children that &amp;quot;can neber be&amp;quot; taken. Among many other obvious reasons, I could never imagine living the life of a slave. One of the hardest things I think many slaves had to endure was the constant fear of being separated from their families at any given moment, including their parents, spouses or even children. It is hard to think that these events were taking place only about 150 years ago. --Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Harriet Tubman, from her white female biographer, Sarah Bradford, 1886 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it interesting that Harriet and the others allowed these slaves to bring farm animals, such as pigs and chickens, on board. I&amp;#039;m assuming they brought them in order to trade them for money when they reached their destination. If this really is the case, that was very kind of them to allow them aboard, especially when it may have allowed for more humans if they weren&amp;#039;t there. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Clara Burdett, to notary in Union camp in KY, March 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so horrible! I know that not all slave owners were like this, that this was an extreme, but still this was an extreme and horrible. I think that it takes a lot of courage to run away after that treatment and a great deal of courage to go the camp and ask for help.  The Union Camp did not have to help her, or even listen to her so to even go and tell her story is incredible. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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What really hit me was the thought of imagining living in constant fear of being beaten in such away as Clarissa Burdett describes. I continue to be amazed and disgusted by what humans can and will do to each other. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fanny Berry, in Weevils in the Wheat, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tennessee Woman, 1929 [TN Nanny] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that this woman had to be strong throughout her life. She knew she was free but continued to stay for the children, her bond with them must have been great.  The part of her story I found intriguing was that she used the power to &amp;quot;walk away&amp;quot; in stopping the children from being mistreated from their stepmother.  The former master even knew that the children visited their old nanny after she left and gave her food, clothes and money, he must have known how important she was to his children.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Remy that this Tennessee nanny was a very strong figure and it comes through in the text.  When looking back on emancipation the common perception is of slaves getting out as quickly as possible from the horrors of living under their masters.  This article defies all of that and shows a slave who not only had a strong connection with the family that owned her (minus the stepmom) but was willing to sacrifice her freedom for a time just to be with them.  Through this a unique relationship is defined and is apparent when she talks back to her master and openly acknowledges she knows she is free without fear of repercussions. This is a unique point of view and insightful into the experience of newly found freedom. -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Anderson, NC ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Katie Darling, in TX ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Darling describes a lot of kind of scary things - forced marriages by masters and whippings like we&amp;#039;ve talked about, even after the war before they were released, but also just how close the front was and how much it frightened her mistress. Imagine what a tense situation that would have been, with violence getting closer every day and the woman who has complete control of your life freaking out about it! -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah and Lucy Chase, Teaching the Freedmen, 1866-1868 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really enjoyed these articles because these women existed as outliers in a nation where race is a decisive issue.  I especially liked the end of the last letter by Sarah Chase to Mr. May &amp;quot;No matter how strict the rules, and wise and kind the teachers plans, for the comfort, and rights of the black scholar; the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;feeling&amp;#039;&amp;#039; of the whites expressd or not -- &amp;#039;&amp;#039;will&amp;#039;&amp;#039; keep the sensitive African away; though he would willingly bear cold, hunger, and whippings if need be--to &amp;#039;get a little larning.&amp;#039; (280)&amp;quot;  This expression of doubt by Sarah Chase bears a reflection of the tension of race relations in the south and other integrated areas.  If I had to choose between feeding and clothing myself or attending college it really would not be a choice.  One can talk about the importance of education until they&amp;#039;re blue in the face, but basic necessities, including safety for these blacks, are ultimately more important. --Sara S. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Susie King Taylor, Reminiscences of My Life in Camp, 1902 ==&lt;br /&gt;
I found this article to be particularly interesting. Taylor is a black woman living in the South who speaks of the prospects of equality for the black man and white man, yet never mentions anything regarding a black woman&amp;#039;s equality within this new twentieth century America. Her writings and ideas are definitely ahead of her time and she speaks of a time that will happen soon after her life where the Southland will be more tolerant of blacks and everyone will live equally and sing in harmony. When analyzing the context as to when this article was written, it is intersting that Taylor never makes reference to women deserving equality (considering this was a time when the Women&amp;#039;s Suffrage Movement was gaining popularity)but instead only makes reference to black men deserving it. It is almost as if she is focusing on one problem at a time and once the initial problem of race is fixed, then they can focus on the women. -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ada Bacot, Confederate Nurse, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found Ada Bacot&amp;#039;s comments on Two Wounded Yankees extremely interesting. She is a Confederate nurse, and yet she feels she has a duty to treat them. She describes them as human beings, something her male counterparts would likely gloss over and simply describe them as the enemy. But Ada feels pity, and although she doesn&amp;#039;t like it, she helps the soldiers. This is likely due to the role of women as being caretakers and motherly. She continues to fill that role regardless of the color of the men&amp;#039;s uniforms. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I completely agree with Clare on this.  This document made me feel really empathetic towards the people fighting in the Civil War.  It&amp;#039;s easy to paint the picture of Southerners being barbaric slave owners and Northerners being too concerned with industrialization and profit to care about the lives of humans, but here it is a confederate woman who isn&amp;#039;t fighting for slavery or against industrialization, but is fighting to keep dying men alive.  &amp;quot;I can&amp;#039;t help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.  They are our enemys too, wounded and in our power.  It will be hard to treat them as I do the other men but I know it is my duty.  The heat is almost over powering. (202)&amp;quot; This makes the war human, and having been in Charlottesville for the summer months before, I can only imagine how awful the hospital smelled and felt especially without air-conditioning. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ada Bacot demonstrates the conflict of ideologies within war. It is not black and white for Bacot. She, a Confederate nurse,  helps Yankees because she &amp;quot;cant help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.&amp;quot; As she is supporting the Confederate forces, she is forced to take care of the &amp;quot;enemy.&amp;quot; --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found this piece to be extremely interesting. Reading her diary entries, you can almost feel the discomfort from having these Union soldiers. But then she writes, “It will be hard to treat them as I do other men but I know that it is my duty.” (pg 202) Her sense of duty won in the end and that seems very remarkable to me. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was most interested in her observation that &amp;quot;The men are very kind to the two yankees&amp;quot; whereas she finds it very hard to do even the most basic things for them. I disagree with Clare that the other soldiers would just see these Union men as &amp;quot;the enemy&amp;quot;. From Bacot&amp;#039;s words as well as from many other sources, we often see soldiers recognizing what they have in common with each other. Not every soldier could or would do this, of course, but many did. Knowing what the other side went through, these soldiers may have had real respect for one another. On the other hand, Bacot, who had never fought, would not have had that perspective, and so could not respect or care for the wounded enemy soldiers. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Maria Daly, 1862, Northerner in the South (New Orleans) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maria Daly seems to write about the war in a positive, patriotic light. In that sense, she is very much against the South. She describes, &amp;quot;Southern ladies and gentlemen...are very agreeable people with very finished and courtly manners, but  they are a class utterly unsuited and antagonistic to the principles of out government.&amp;quot; She sees the South as a tyranny. She also states how the women nurses and volunteers are a comfort to the men. However, I am confused by the last paragraph... - Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder how Daly ended up stuck in the South during the war! It sounds like she&amp;#039;s writing after the Union had occupied New Orleans, since she describes the Yankees sarcastically as &amp;quot;those barbarous creatures who have done nothing but feed their hungry and clothe their naked since they took their pestilent city.&amp;quot; But it seems like the women who volunteered in the hospitals were dealing with both Northern and Southern soldiers. I thought it was interesting how offended she was that the Southern officers had dinner, but then she mentioned that tea was $16 a pound, and I can&amp;#039;t imagine how expensive a dinner must have been! Maybe it seemed unreasonably extravagant when they were doing something as serious as waiting for prisoners of war. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Morgan, 1863, Teen diary ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Morgan&amp;#039;s entry demonstrates the support some women gave to the war. She is very excited for the war and wants to join somehow. She thinks of all the ways she can support the Rebel cause with sewing and knitting. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It was interesting to read this excerpt because at the beginning of the war Sarah Morgan did not agree with the war, but her loyalty to the South is what seems to bring her around.  Doing her womanly duties is her way of contributing to the efforts of the war.  She was young and easily influenced by the war propaganda so she felt like it was her duty.  It was a short entry but influential and to see what she went through made me feel sorry for her situation.  –Pam P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cornelia Hancock, Union Nurse, 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Caroline Kirkland, 1863, defends Northern women’s support of Northern men ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Caroline Kirkland’s entry was such a great example of North vs. South.  I enjoyed the fact that she felt sympathy for the women of the South, and then in the next sentence berated them for not doing everything they could to stop not just their soldier husbands, but also questioned their faith in God.  I thought that Kirkland’s selection was notable because she was a woman and very outspoken about what she witnessed, justified or not. – Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ella Gertrude Clanton Thomas, January 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Ella Thomas&amp;#039;s writing on life as a Southern woman in 1865 brings to life how devastating and traumatic the war really was in the south.  Her fury stems from the unjust insanity at the hands of the Union army that is ruining her life as she knows it.  She appears to be at the end of her rope with war and death stating,&amp;quot; I lose faith in humanity when I see such efforts to sink the nobler better part of man&amp;#039;s nature in an effort to exterminate the white race at the South in order to elevate the Negro race to a position which I doubt their ability to fill - The time will come when Southern women will be avenged.&amp;quot; This is a deep quote and I believe it sets the tone for how most Southern women felt during and long after the war.  In the first place most Southerners honestly did not see their actions towards slavery as being wrong and then then they are punished for it by having everything taken from them and destroyed.  This undoubtedly would be a confusing and infuriating time for anyone in the South who had their lives completely destroyed.  Thomas&amp;#039;s writing reveals an intimate example of the tole that the war took on the South and helps to remind that Southerners were more than just wicked slave holders.  --Rachel T.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 13-14 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-30T13:49:20Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Overarching or comparative questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Louisa May Alcott, Hospital Sketches, 1862-1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s description of being a Union nurse, it is apparent that women are new to the field of nursing, and even then, their definition of nursing is not what it is today. Alcott writes, &amp;quot;I find real pleasure in comforting, tending, and cheering these poor souls who seem to love me, to feel my sympathy though unspoken, and acknowledge my hearty good-will, in spite of the ignorance, awkwardness, and bashfulness which I cannot help showing in so new and trying a situation.&amp;quot; Alcott&amp;#039;s main role was to keep up the spirits of the men, not doing any actual medical aide. Furthermore, she describeds fulfilling these duties with awkwardness and bashfulness. This is likely because ladies were supposed to be in the home, and if they are out of the home they are certainly not supposed to be dealing with men they are not married to. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Livermore, [Northern women on farm during war], 1890 -- Woloch and Major Problems readings. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Louticia Jackson’s letter in 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Eva Jones to Mary Jones, her mother-in-law, 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Accounts of former slaves, 1865-1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== VA woman, recorded by abolitionist Laura Haviland in 1866 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harriet Tubman, from her white female biographer, Sarah Bradford, 1886 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Clara Burdett, to notary in Union camp in KY, March 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fanny Berry, in Weevils in the Wheat, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tennessee Woman, 1929 [TN Nanny] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Anderson, NC ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Katie Darling, in TX ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah and Lucy Chase, Teaching the Freedmen, 1866-1868 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really enjoyed these articles because these women existed as outliers in a nation where race is a decisive issue.  I especially liked the end of the last letter by Sarah Chase to Mr. May &amp;quot;No matter how strict the rules, and wise and kind the teachers plans, for the comfort, and rights of the black scholar; the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;feeling&amp;#039;&amp;#039; of the whites expressd or not -- &amp;#039;&amp;#039;will&amp;#039;&amp;#039; keep the sensitive African away; though he would willingly bear cold, hunger, and whippings if need be--to &amp;#039;get a little larning.&amp;#039; (280)&amp;quot;  This expression of doubt by Sarah Chase bears a reflection of the tension of race relations in the south and other integrated areas.  If I had to choose between feeding and clothing myself or attending college it really would not be a choice.  One can talk about the importance of education until they&amp;#039;re blue in the face, but basic necessities, including safety for these blacks, are ultimately more important. --Sara S. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Susie King Taylor, Reminiscences of My Life in Camp, 1902 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ada Bacot, Confederate Nurse, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found Ada Bacot&amp;#039;s comments on Two Wounded Yankees extremely interesting. She is a Confederate nurse, and yet she feels she has a duty to treat them. She describes them as human beings, something her male counterparts would likely gloss over and simply describe them as the enemy. But Ada feels pity, and although she doesn&amp;#039;t like it, she helps the soldiers. This is likely due to the role of women as being caretakers and motherly. She continues to fill that role regardless of the color of the men&amp;#039;s uniforms. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I completely agree with Clare on this.  This document made me feel really empathetic towards the people fighting in the Civil War.  It&amp;#039;s easy to paint the picture of Southerners being barbaric slave owners and Northerners being too concerned with industrialization and profit to care about the lives of humans, but here it is a confederate woman who isn&amp;#039;t fighting for slavery or against industrialization, but is fighting to keep dying men alive.  &amp;quot;I can&amp;#039;t help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.  They are our enemys too, wounded and in our power.  It will be hard to treat them as I do the other men but I know it is my duty.  The heat is almost over powering. (202)&amp;quot; This makes the war human, and having been in Charlottesville for the summer months before, I can only imagine how awful the hospital smelled and felt especially without air-conditioning. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Maria Daly, 1862, Northerner in the South (New Orleans) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Morgan, 1863, Teen diary ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cornelia Hancock, Union Nurse, 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Caroline Kirkland, 1863, defends Northern women’s support of Northern men ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ella Gertrude Clanton Thomas, January 1865 ==&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 13-14 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_13-14_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-30T13:48:44Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Louisa May Alcott, Hospital Sketches, 1862-1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s description of being a Union nurse, it is apparent that women are new to the field of nursing, and even then, their definition of nursing is not what it is today. Alcott writes, &amp;quot;I find real pleasure in comforting, tending, and cheering these poor souls who seem to love me, to feel my sympathy though unspoken, and acknowledge my hearty good-will, in spite of the ignorance, awkwardness, and bashfulness which I cannot help showing in so new and trying a situation.&amp;quot; Alcott&amp;#039;s main role was to keep up the spirits of the men, not doing any actual medical aide. Furthermore, she describeds fulfilling these duties with awkwardness and bashfulness. This is likely because ladies were supposed to be in the home, and if they are out of the home they are certainly not supposed to be dealing with men they are not married to. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Livermore, [Northern women on farm during war], 1890 -- Woloch and Major Problems readings. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Louticia Jackson’s letter in 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Eva Jones to Mary Jones, her mother-in-law, 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Accounts of former slaves, 1865-1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== VA woman, recorded by abolitionist Laura Haviland in 1866 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harriet Tubman, from her white female biographer, Sarah Bradford, 1886 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Clara Burdett, to notary in Union camp in KY, March 1865 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fanny Berry, in Weevils in the Wheat, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tennessee Woman, 1929 [TN Nanny] ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Anderson, NC ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Katie Darling, in TX ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah and Lucy Chase, Teaching the Freedmen, 1866-1868 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really enjoyed these articles because these women existed as outliers in a nation where race is a decisive issue.  I especially liked the end of the last letter by Sarah Chase to Mr. May &amp;quot;No matter how strict the rules, and wise and kind the teachers plans, for the comfort, and rights of the black scholar; the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;feeling&amp;#039;&amp;#039; of the whites expressd or not -- &amp;#039;&amp;#039;will&amp;#039;&amp;#039; keep the sensitive African away; though he would willingly bear cold, hunger, and whippings if need be--to &amp;#039;get a little larning.&amp;#039; (280)&amp;quot;  This expression of doubt by Sarah Chase bears a reflection of the tension of race relations in the south and other integrated areas.  If I had to choose between feeding and clothing myself or attending college it really would not be a choice.  One can talk about the importance of education until they&amp;#039;re blue in the face, but basic necessities, including safety for these blacks, are ultimately more important. --Sara S. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Susie King Taylor, Reminiscences of My Life in Camp, 1902 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ada Bacot, Confederate Nurse, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found Ada Bacot&amp;#039;s comments on Two Wounded Yankees extremely interesting. She is a Confederate nurse, and yet she feels she has a duty to treat them. She describes them as human beings, something her male counterparts would likely gloss over and simply describe them as the enemy. But Ada feels pity, and although she doesn&amp;#039;t like it, she helps the soldiers. This is likely due to the role of women as being caretakers and motherly. She continues to fill that role regardless of the color of the men&amp;#039;s uniforms. --Clare O&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I completely agree with Clare on this.  This document made me feel really empathetic towards the people fighting in the Civil War.  It&amp;#039;s easy to paint the picture of Southerners being barbaric slave owners and Northerners being too concerned with industrialization and profit to care about the lives of humans, but here it is a confederate woman who isn&amp;#039;t fighting for slavery or against industrialization, but is fighting to keep dying men alive.  &amp;quot;I can&amp;#039;t help feeling pity for them, they are human beings.  They are our enemys too, wounded and in our power.  It will be hard to treat them as I do the other men but I know it is my duty.  The heat is almost over powering. (202)&amp;quot; This makes the war human, and having been in Charlottesville for the summer months before, I can only imagine how awful the hospital smelled and felt especially without air-conditioning. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Maria Daly, 1862, Northerner in the South (New Orleans) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Morgan, 1863, Teen diary ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Cornelia Hancock, Union Nurse, 1863 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Caroline Kirkland, 1863, defends Northern women’s support of Northern men ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ella Gertrude Clanton Thomas, January 1865 ==&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_12_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 12 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_12_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-17T13:32:25Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Comparative source questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most (all) of these women are Christian and from the North. They condemn the South for having slavery, but I wonder if they see unfair employment, negative stereotypes, and racism in the North as a problem. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Advocate of Moral Reform, 1838 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This pamphlet embodies so much of how I&amp;#039;ve been taught to conceptualize nineteenth-century moral societies; the image of a &amp;quot;respectable&amp;quot; girl from an established family who, in her naivety, trusted someone who turned out to be untrustworthy, and was led unknowingly into a brothel.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This story is so reminiscent of all of the ones we&amp;#039;ve talked about and studied in history classes that I felt I practically could have written it myself. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;That fact begs the question -- was this a real girl?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The number of vague references (she&amp;#039;s from &amp;quot;[a] delightful western village;&amp;quot; where she ends up is never stated, nor is her age, name, or any particulars at all) makes me think that this story is almost certainly just that -- a story.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Whether or not this was a real societal issue (young women lured into cities and then into prostitution), these overly-generic stories make the entire thing seem fabricated, like lurid stories to keep daughters in line&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Nicole&amp;#039;s point of view of this letter. Was this actually a true occurence that happened to a real girl or was it merely a form of propaganda utilized by the Moral Reform Society to help purify the population and persuade young women to remain devout and true to their &amp;quot;respectable&amp;quot; families? It doesn&amp;#039;t suprise me that these situations may have possibly happened, but I would expect that a woman who was led into prostitution would have been one of the group of single women that immigrated to the United States, not one who would have a &amp;quot;respectable&amp;quot; family living with her. --Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems as though this is definitely a form of propaganda for the moral reform movement.  By telling the story of a young girl who puts her faith in the wrong person, people will be deterred from different things. First, they will avoid the city, as it is portrayed in a bad light. And second, they will avoid being seduced by untrustworthy males.  I don&amp;#039;t think that this form of propaganda has stopped yet. I am still protected by my parents from the &amp;quot;dangers of the big city&amp;quot; and the dangers of becoming acquainted with strangers. --Mary Beth&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Maria Stewart, 1831, “O, Ye Daughters of Africa, Awake!” in the Liberator. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;It is the blood of our fathers, and the tears of our brethren that have enriched your soils. AND WE CLAIM OUR RIGHTS.&amp;quot; (237) These last few lines stuck out to me.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It is one of the strongest arguements I think blacks could have made when it came to being members and citizens of this country. Stewart also mentions how African daughters are being cheated when they do not have the means to be educated and are never given the opportunity. This was a very strong piece, and having been written by a woman, makes it more significant.&lt;br /&gt;
---Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really liked this piece for a couple different reasons. The first reason is that it is a combination of the reform movement and the abolition movement.  She makes the abolition movement a result of her religious conversion and her calling to &amp;quot;devote the remainder of my [her] days to piety and virtue&amp;quot; (pg 236).  It is also fairly unique because this is addressed specifically at women. When it is addressed at women that are slaves or free blacks, it is addressing two of the biggest minorities in the United States at that time. --Mary Beth&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letter to Liberator from Andover Female Antislavery Society, 1836 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In A Letter to the Liberator by the Andover Female Antislavery Society, I thought it was interesting in the way the women use religious rhetoric compared to womens role in religion in the past.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; For example, the assert that &amp;quot;God never made [women] to be inactive-- nor in all cases to follow in the wake of man.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they state that they believe &amp;quot;God gave woman a heart to feel-- an eye to weep-- a hand to work-- a tongue to speak.&amp;quot; Not very long before this time, women were absolutely expected to &amp;#039;follow&amp;#039; man and were expected to be silent in church. Women&amp;#039;s new role as moral pillar of the family certainly aided this, as the women state they &amp;quot;will do a Christian woman&amp;#039;s duty.&amp;quot; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second to last paragraph on pg. 238 reminds me of how the slave owners/masters used Christianity to reiterate that slavery was in fact encouraged by God. Mary P. Abbott does an amazing job defending her view that slavery is condemned by God and Christianity. She goes onto say how slavery goes against everything God says when it comes to marriages, family, equality. This piece was very empowering and had every argument it needed for women, blacks, and slaves in general. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting that women found it part of their moral obligation to speak out against slavery. In a world where women&amp;#039;s activity is often focused in domestic sphere and with their husbands, or on woman&amp;#039;s suffrage, it is refreshing and interesting to see a woman speaking out against slavery in association with her moral duty. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Do you think that the author of this letter is using the abolitionist movement as an agency to promote womans rights? In what ways does this change the purpose of this letter?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Grimke’s response to the Mass Clergy, 1837 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I admire Sarah Grimke&amp;#039;s spirit and determination to speak her mind, especially to members of the Church who were regarded as highly esteemed members of society. &amp;quot;Men and women were CREATED EQUAL; they are both moral and accountable beings, and whatever is right for man to do, is right for woman to to&amp;quot; (240). I would argue that Sarah Grimke and her sister were true pioneers for the Women&amp;#039;s Suffrage Movement and the modern day Women&amp;#039;s Rights Movement with the proposed Equal Rights Amendment. It is because of women like these that women in today&amp;#039;s world enjoy some of the privileges and rights that we do. -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Declaration of Sentiments at Seneca Falls, 1848 (written by Elizabeth Cady Stanton) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It mentions that of the 300 participants over the two day meeting, that 40 of them were wen.  Being that the convention was to discuss the social, civil and religious rights of women, how common/uncommon is it to have that many men in attendance?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  - Matt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What I love about this document is the fact that Stanton took inspiration for this document from the Declaration of Independence.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; When they held this convention in Seneca Falls NY, these women really were declaring independence for women from society and the subservience they were put under. Although it would take over fifty years for women to obtain the vote, this document still acted as an outline for what women wanted to accomplish with liberation. These women were truly exceptional and forward-thinking for the time they lived in! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thought this was long overdue, using the words of the very men who seek to oppress women to show that women deserve the same rights as the men. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was interested however when it says, “He has withheld her from her rights which are given to the most ignorant and degraded men – both natives and foreigners.” I know they say they are talking about the rights of citizenship, but I imagined that these women would want equality for all women, even the foreign women. Or was that a completely different issue? By calling foreign and native men the most ignorant and degraded, aren’t they using the same justification that men used of women: categorizing them as an exception to the rule.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Emma, I noticed that too. There is no reform movement that is without its own faults or logical fallacies. This one made me think of Dr. M&amp;#039;s description of Irish immigrants being harshest to newly-arriving immigrants of other races. --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lucy Stone (and Henry Blackwell)’s Marriage Protest, 1855 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really enjoyed the insight which this document offered to us.  In the introduction it states that &amp;quot;Stone kept her name, refused to &amp;#039;obey&amp;#039; and challenged the system of coveture.&amp;quot;  Although this protest by her and her husband has done nothing significant (women still take their husbands name, many religious ceremonies still discuss obedience of the wife, etc) in the overall societal impact of marriage,&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; it was shocking to read that women didn&amp;#039;t take their husbands name in 1855!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  And that her husband was in on the protest!&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I know this doesn&amp;#039;t offer much into the lives of average American wives,&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; but it surprised me to say the very least. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Sara that it was really suprising that women did not take their husbands names during this time period. I wonder why it was common for women not to do so? You would think in a patriarchal society that men would demand that their wives take their name, so that they could reaffirm their manhood or hold power over their wives in this way.--Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was really surprised when I read this document. I agree that it was nice to see the woman &amp;quot;protest&amp;quot; taking her husband&amp;#039;s name but that was the very minimum that she was protesting. The document also goes on to state that she had a problem with her husband having “custody of the wife’s person.” and the control of the children. So while the main thing that is taken away from this her not wanting to take the name, I think that it was much bigger. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After reading this I feel like Stone and Blackwell really embraced the free and equal lifestyle that they demonstrated through their abolitionist protest.  Like many of the women in the Jeffrey&amp;#039;s article this one demonstrates the full extent of equality women were able to obtain during this time.  It also shows the changing mindset of men as Blackwell encouraged and agreed with all of this which for many men would be seen as a hit on their identity as a man. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Although, this example is an extreme it shows the possibilities for women that Jeffreys discussed.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sojourner Truth (Isabella Van Wagener), 1851 (Ohio Convention). ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found this very inspiring. She was not trying to be eloquent or fancy. She was simply speaking about her experiences and how they had changed her life. I think that it made the speech more power telling the audience what she had accomplished being a slave rather than trying to convince them why women should be given the right to vote. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Her argument on the last page about how Jesus was from Mary and God, was very clever. This whole time people were using the religious argument belittling women. But she uses it in the defense of women; and noone could argue with her. While she wasn&amp;#039;t the most educated, her speech hit hard and was unforgettable. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I also found it quite interesting that there were two different accounts as to what was said.  In one aspect the first account from the Antislavery Bugle made her more well spoken than the second account from the Independent.  There were many differences from each view point but to me the message was the same - Women do have rights and Sojourner Truth was going to tell these people what was on her mind.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Isablle Graham and Society for Relief of Poor Widows, 1806 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of a middle class is apparent in the document &amp;quot;Mrs. Isabella Graham Addresses Members of the Society for the Relief of Poor Widows with Small Children, April 1800, and Their Daughters (Volunteer Teachers), April 1806.&amp;quot; Graham discusses the comforts that the members of the society enjoy, such as dwellings, fires, and parties, while the poor widows have no comforts whatsoever. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;One of the most important aspects of the idea of the middle class to women is their new ability to help others due to their privileged status. This document is an excellent example of this emerging charity&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Anti-Slavery Convention of American Women, 1837 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The convention is very religious. There is always scripture and prayer. Also, most of the arguments focus around religious reasons to end slavery.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This religious factor probably came to the abolitionist movement because it was dominated by women. In class we discussed women as more moral than men and more involved in the Church. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This reading brought home to me the degree to which women were involved in some contradictory activities&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. On the one hand, this was considered part of the domestic sphere, and these women were acting within the role prescribed for them. On the other hand, the parliamentary procedures they go through are more reminiscent of the public sphere, and look more like engagement in politics. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== American Female Reform Society Warns Mothers of “Solitary Vice”, 1839 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This was a short article about how &amp;quot;solitary vice&amp;quot; or masturbation is the cause for the downfall of society.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  She does not talk about adults but children doing this act and to me that is a little disturbing.  Children doing this act were thought to have no morals and that their religion will save them from masturbation.  There are still people out there today that think any kind of sexual act that is not made for procreation is a &amp;quot;body and soul-destroying sin.&amp;quot; -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 1848, Elizabeth McClintock and Elizabeth Cady Stanton defend the Declaration of Sentiments and the 1848 convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Josepha Hale, Editor of &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Godey&amp;#039;s Lady&amp;#039;s Book,&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Praises Women&amp;#039;s Indirect Political Influence, 1852 ==&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Even though it was short, this document was insightful because of the last sentence of it &amp;quot;This is the way American women should vote, namely, by influencing rightly the votes of men.&amp;quot; This sentence implies a sort of power which women have over their husbands within their household and I have to wonder to the extent which this so-called power manifested itself.  Sure, persuasion is powerful, but not having control of one&amp;#039;s finances or lifestyle cannot be construed as power. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I wonder if men felt women had this much power over their vote?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I doubt it because women were not given the vote because men thought women could not think for themselves. This document shows that some women, actually, think men cannot think for themselves when voting. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This just made me think about all the times I&amp;#039;ve disagreed with my parents about politics. I don&amp;#039;t vote the same way they do, even though I appreciate the way they raised me, and I&amp;#039;m not doing it to be spiteful. Hale doesn&amp;#039;t seem to consider the idea that some people&amp;#039;s sons, even if not hers, aren&amp;#039;t going to agree with their parents.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Julie Roy Jeffrey, “Ordinary Women in the Antislavery Movement,” in the &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Introduction to The Great Silent Army of Abolitionism: Ordinary Women in the Anti-slavery Movement&amp;#039;&amp;#039;, 1998. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Jeffrey&amp;#039;s essay really brings to light an overlooked side effect of the abolitionist movement, the movement towards more self empowered women. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; When thinking about the anti-slavery, the focus is always on white people who saw the injustices in slavery and spoke out against it but Jeffrey&amp;#039;s goes beyond that to illuminate the complexities of the movement.  As the anti-slavery movement was unpopular in comparison to other social movements of the time woman faced a fair amount of adversity that only helped to build their abilities to control the public sphere.  The women who participated in this movement were forced to gain the ability to forcefully argue their opinion in order to gain respect that then translated into how they viewed their own lives and the gendered roles they served.  Is it fair to assume that the social implications for women during the anti-slavery movement were just as great as the cause they supported?  --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Nancy Isenberg’s “Women’s Rights and the Politics of Church and State in Antebellum America,” (1998) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Shirley Yee, “Free Black Women in the Abolitionist Movement,” in Black Women Abolitionists: A Study in Activism, 1828-1860, (1992). ==&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
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		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_12_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 12 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
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				<updated>2011-11-17T13:27:52Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Comparative source questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most (all) of these women are Christian and from the North. They condemn the South for having slavery, but I wonder if they see unfair employment, negative stereotypes, and racism in the North as a problem. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Advocate of Moral Reform, 1838 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This pamphlet embodies so much of how I&amp;#039;ve been taught to conceptualize nineteenth-century moral societies; the image of a &amp;quot;respectable&amp;quot; girl from an established family who, in her naivety, trusted someone who turned out to be untrustworthy, and was led unknowingly into a brothel.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; This story is so reminiscent of all of the ones we&amp;#039;ve talked about and studied in history classes that I felt I practically could have written it myself. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;That fact begs the question -- was this a real girl?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The number of vague references (she&amp;#039;s from &amp;quot;[a] delightful western village;&amp;quot; where she ends up is never stated, nor is her age, name, or any particulars at all) makes me think that this story is almost certainly just that -- a story.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Whether or not this was a real societal issue (young women lured into cities and then into prostitution), these overly-generic stories make the entire thing seem fabricated, like lurid stories to keep daughters in line&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Nicole&amp;#039;s point of view of this letter. Was this actually a true occurence that happened to a real girl or was it merely a form of propaganda utilized by the Moral Reform Society to help purify the population and persuade young women to remain devout and true to their &amp;quot;respectable&amp;quot; families? It doesn&amp;#039;t suprise me that these situations may have possibly happened, but I would expect that a woman who was led into prostitution would have been one of the group of single women that immigrated to the United States, not one who would have a &amp;quot;respectable&amp;quot; family living with her. --Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems as though this is definitely a form of propaganda for the moral reform movement.  By telling the story of a young girl who puts her faith in the wrong person, people will be deterred from different things. First, they will avoid the city, as it is portrayed in a bad light. And second, they will avoid being seduced by untrustworthy males.  I don&amp;#039;t think that this form of propaganda has stopped yet. I am still protected by my parents from the &amp;quot;dangers of the big city&amp;quot; and the dangers of becoming acquainted with strangers. --Mary Beth&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Maria Stewart, 1831, “O, Ye Daughters of Africa, Awake!” in the Liberator. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;quot;It is the blood of our fathers, and the tears of our brethren that have enriched your soils. AND WE CLAIM OUR RIGHTS.&amp;quot; (237) These last few lines stuck out to me.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It is one of the strongest arguements I think blacks could have made when it came to being members and citizens of this country. Stewart also mentions how African daughters are being cheated when they do not have the means to be educated and are never given the opportunity. This was a very strong piece, and having been written by a woman, makes it more significant.&lt;br /&gt;
---Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really liked this piece for a couple different reasons. The first reason is that it is a combination of the reform movement and the abolition movement.  She makes the abolition movement a result of her religious conversion and her calling to &amp;quot;devote the remainder of my [her] days to piety and virtue&amp;quot; (pg 236).  It is also fairly unique because this is addressed specifically at women. When it is addressed at women that are slaves or free blacks, it is addressing two of the biggest minorities in the United States at that time. --Mary Beth&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letter to Liberator from Andover Female Antislavery Society, 1836 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In A Letter to the Liberator by the Andover Female Antislavery Society, I thought it was interesting in the way the women use religious rhetoric compared to womens role in religion in the past.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; For example, the assert that &amp;quot;God never made [women] to be inactive-- nor in all cases to follow in the wake of man.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they state that they believe &amp;quot;God gave woman a heart to feel-- an eye to weep-- a hand to work-- a tongue to speak.&amp;quot; Not very long before this time, women were absolutely expected to &amp;#039;follow&amp;#039; man and were expected to be silent in church. Women&amp;#039;s new role as moral pillar of the family certainly aided this, as the women state they &amp;quot;will do a Christian woman&amp;#039;s duty.&amp;quot; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second to last paragraph on pg. 238 reminds me of how the slave owners/masters used Christianity to reiterate that slavery was in fact encouraged by God. Mary P. Abbott does an amazing job defending her view that slavery is condemned by God and Christianity. She goes onto say how slavery goes against everything God says when it comes to marriages, family, equality. This piece was very empowering and had every argument it needed for women, blacks, and slaves in general. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is interesting that women found it part of their moral obligation to speak out against slavery. In a world where women&amp;#039;s activity is often focused in domestic sphere and with their husbands, or on woman&amp;#039;s suffrage, it is refreshing and interesting to see a woman speaking out against slavery in association with her moral duty. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Do you think that the author of this letter is using the abolitionist movement as an agency to promote womans rights? In what ways does this change the purpose of this letter?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Grimke’s response to the Mass Clergy, 1837 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I admire Sarah Grimke&amp;#039;s spirit and determination to speak her mind, especially to members of the Church who were regarded as highly esteemed members of society. &amp;quot;Men and women were CREATED EQUAL; they are both moral and accountable beings, and whatever is right for man to do, is right for woman to to&amp;quot; (240). I would argue that Sarah Grimke and her sister were true pioneers for the Women&amp;#039;s Suffrage Movement and the modern day Women&amp;#039;s Rights Movement with the proposed Equal Rights Amendment. It is because of women like these that women in today&amp;#039;s world enjoy some of the privileges and rights that we do. -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Declaration of Sentiments at Seneca Falls, 1848 (written by Elizabeth Cady Stanton) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It mentions that of the 300 participants over the two day meeting, that 40 of them were wen.  Being that the convention was to discuss the social, civil and religious rights of women, how common/uncommon is it to have that many men in attendance?  - Matt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What I love about this document is the fact that Stanton took inspiration for this document from the Declaration of Independence. When they held this convention in Seneca Falls NY, these women really were declaring independence for women from society and the subservience they were put under. Although it would take over fifty years for women to obtain the vote, this document still acted as an outline for what women wanted to accomplish with liberation. These women were truly exceptional and forward-thinking for the time they lived in! -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thought this was long overdue, using the words of the very men who seek to oppress women to show that women deserve the same rights as the men. I was interested however when it says, “He has withheld her from her rights which are given to the most ignorant and degraded men – both natives and foreigners.” I know they say they are talking about the rights of citizenship, but I imagined that these women would want equality for all women, even the foreign women. Or was that a completely different issue? By calling foreign and native men the most ignorant and degraded, aren’t they using the same justification that men used of women: categorizing them as an exception to the rule. -- Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lucy Stone (and Henry Blackwell)’s Marriage Protest, 1855 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really enjoyed the insight which this document offered to us.  In the introduction it states that &amp;quot;Stone kept her name, refused to &amp;#039;obey&amp;#039; and challenged the system of coveture.&amp;quot;  Although this protest by her and her husband has done nothing significant (women still take their husbands name, many religious ceremonies still discuss obedience of the wife, etc) in the overall societal impact of marriage, it was shocking to read that women didn&amp;#039;t take their husbands name in 1855!  And that her husband was in on the protest! I know this doesn&amp;#039;t offer much into the lives of average American wives, but it surprised me to say the very least. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Sara that it was really suprising that women did not take their husbands names during this time period. I wonder why it was common for women not to do so? You would think in a patriarchal society that men would demand that their wives take their name, so that they could reaffirm their manhood or hold power over their wives in this way.--Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was really surprised when I read this document. I agree that it was nice to see the woman &amp;quot;protest&amp;quot; taking her husband&amp;#039;s name but that was the very minimum that she was protesting. The document also goes on to state that she had a problem with her husband having “custody of the wife’s person.” and the control of the children. So while the main thing that is taken away from this her not wanting to take the name, I think that it was much bigger. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After reading this I feel like Stone and Blackwell really embraced the free and equal lifestyle that they demonstrated through their abolitionist protest.  Like many of the women in the Jeffrey&amp;#039;s article this one demonstrates the full extent of equality women were able to obtain during this time.  It also shows the changing mindset of men as Blackwell encouraged and agreed with all of this which for many men would be seen as a hit on their identity as a man.  Although, this example is an extreme it shows the possibilities for women that Jeffreys discussed. -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sojourner Truth (Isabella Van Wagener), 1851 (Ohio Convention). ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found this very inspiring. She was not trying to be eloquent or fancy. She was simply speaking about her experiences and how they had changed her life. I think that it made the speech more power telling the audience what she had accomplished being a slave rather than trying to convince them why women should be given the right to vote. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Her argument on the last page about how Jesus was from Mary and God, was very clever. This whole time people were using the religious argument belittling women. But she uses it in the defense of women; and noone could argue with her. While she wasn&amp;#039;t the most educated, her speech hit hard and was unforgettable. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I also found it quite interesting that there were two different accounts as to what was said.  In one aspect the first account from the Antislavery Bugle made her more well spoken than the second account from the Independent.  There were many differences from each view point but to me the message was the same - Women do have rights and Sojourner Truth was going to tell these people what was on her mind. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Isablle Graham and Society for Relief of Poor Widows, 1806 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of a middle class is apparent in the document &amp;quot;Mrs. Isabella Graham Addresses Members of the Society for the Relief of Poor Widows with Small Children, April 1800, and Their Daughters (Volunteer Teachers), April 1806.&amp;quot; Graham discusses the comforts that the members of the society enjoy, such as dwellings, fires, and parties, while the poor widows have no comforts whatsoever. One of the most important aspects of the idea of the middle class to women is their new ability to help others due to their privileged status. This document is an excellent example of this emerging charity. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Anti-Slavery Convention of American Women, 1837 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The convention is very religious. There is always scripture and prayer. Also, most of the arguments focus around religious reasons to end slavery. This religious factor probably came to the abolitionist movement because it was dominated by women. In class we discussed women as more moral than men and more involved in the Church. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This reading brought home to me the degree to which women were involved in some contradictory activities. On the one hand, this was considered part of the domestic sphere, and these women were acting within the role prescribed for them. On the other hand, the parliamentary procedures they go through are more reminiscent of the public sphere, and look more like engagement in politics. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== American Female Reform Society Warns Mothers of “Solitary Vice”, 1839 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This was a short article about how &amp;quot;solitary vice&amp;quot; or masturbation is the cause for the downfall of society.  She does not talk about adults but children doing this act and to me that is a little disturbing.  Children doing this act were thought to have no morals and that their religion will save them from masturbation.  There are still people out there today that think any kind of sexual act that is not made for procreation is a &amp;quot;body and soul-destroying sin.&amp;quot; -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 1848, Elizabeth McClintock and Elizabeth Cady Stanton defend the Declaration of Sentiments and the 1848 convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Josepha Hale, Editor of &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Godey&amp;#039;s Lady&amp;#039;s Book,&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Praises Women&amp;#039;s Indirect Political Influence, 1852 ==&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Even though it was short, this document was insightful because of the last sentence of it &amp;quot;This is the way American women should vote, namely, by influencing rightly the votes of men.&amp;quot; This sentence implies a sort of power which women have over their husbands within their household and I have to wonder to the extent which this so-called power manifested itself.  Sure, persuasion is powerful, but not having control of one&amp;#039;s finances or lifestyle cannot be construed as power. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder if men felt women had this much power over their vote? I doubt it because women were not given the vote because men thought women could not think for themselves. This document shows that some women, actually, think men cannot think for themselves when voting. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This just made me think about all the times I&amp;#039;ve disagreed with my parents about politics. I don&amp;#039;t vote the same way they do, even though I appreciate the way they raised me, and I&amp;#039;m not doing it to be spiteful. Hale doesn&amp;#039;t seem to consider the idea that some people&amp;#039;s sons, even if not hers, aren&amp;#039;t going to agree with their parents. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Julie Roy Jeffrey, “Ordinary Women in the Antislavery Movement,” in the Introduction to The Great Silent Army of Abolitionism: Ordinary Women in the Anti-slavery Movement, 1998. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jeffrey&amp;#039;s essay really brings to light an overlooked side effect of the abolitionist movement, the movement towards more self empowered women.  When thinking about the anti-slavery, the focus is always on white people who saw the injustices in slavery and spoke out against it but Jeffrey&amp;#039;s goes beyond that to illuminate the complexities of the movement.  As the anti-slavery movement was unpopular in comparison to other social movements of the time woman faced a fair amount of adversity that only helped to build their abilities to control the public sphere.  The women who participated in this movement were forced to gain the ability to forcefully argue their opinion in order to gain respect that then translated into how they viewed their own lives and the gendered roles they served.  Is it fair to assume that the social implications for women during the anti-slavery movement were just as great as the cause they supported?  --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Nancy Isenberg’s “Women’s Rights and the Politics of Church and State in Antebellum America,” (1998) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Shirley Yee, “Free Black Women in the Abolitionist Movement,” in Black Women Abolitionists: A Study in Activism, 1828-1860, (1992). ==&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_12_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 12 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_12_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-16T13:12:07Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Comparative source questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Advocate of Moral Reform, 1838 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Maria Stewart, 1831, “O, Ye Daughters of Africa, Awake!” in the Liberator. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letter to Liberator from Andover Female Antislavery Society, 1836 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In A Letter to the Liberator by the Andover Female Antislavery Society, I thought it was interesting in the way the women use religious rhetoric compared to womens role in religion in the past. For example, the assert that &amp;quot;God never mad [women] to be inactive-- nor in all cases to follow in the wake of man.&amp;quot; Furthermore, they state that they believe &amp;quot;God gave woman a heart to feel-- an eye to weep-- a hand to work-- a tongue to speak.&amp;quot; Not very long before this time, women were absolutely expected to &amp;#039;follow&amp;#039; man and were expected to be silent in church. Women&amp;#039;s new role as moral pillar of the family certainly aided this, as the women state they &amp;quot;will do a Christian woman&amp;#039;s duty.&amp;quot; --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Grimke’s response to the Mass Clergy, 1837 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Declaration of Sentiments at Seneca Falls, 1848 (written by Elizabeth Cady Stanton) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lucy Stone (and Henry Blackwell)’s Marriage Protest, 1855 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really enjoyed the insight which this document offered to us.  In the introduction it states that &amp;quot;Stone kept her name, refused to &amp;#039;obey&amp;#039; and challenged the system of coveture.&amp;quot;  Although this protest by her and her husband has done nothing significant (women still take their husbands name, many religious ceremonies still discuss obedience of the wife, etc) in the overall societal impact of marriage, it was shocking to read that women didn&amp;#039;t take their husbands name in 1855!  And that her husband was in on the protest! I know this doesn&amp;#039;t offer much into the lives of average American wives, but it surprised me to say the very least. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sojourner Truth (Isabella Van Wagener), 1851 (Ohio Convention). ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Isablle Graham and Society for Relief of Poor Widows, 1806 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of a middle class is apparent in the document &amp;quot;Mrs. Isabella Graham Addresses Members of the Society for the Relief of Poor Widows with Small Children, April 1800, and Their Daughters (Volunteer Teachers), April 1806.&amp;quot; Graham discusses the comforts that the members of the society enjoy, such as dwellings, fires, and parties, while the poor widows have no comforts whatsoever. One of the most important aspects of the idea of the middle class to women is their new ability to help others due to their privileged status. This document is an excellent example of this emerging charity. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Anti-Slavery Convention of American Women, 1837 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== American Female Reform Society Warns Mothers of “Solitary Vice”, 1839 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== 1848, Elizabeth McClintock and Elizabeth Cady Stanton defend the Declaration of Sentiments and the 1848 convention ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Josepha Hale, Editor of &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Godey&amp;#039;s Lady&amp;#039;s Book,&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Praises Women&amp;#039;s Indirect Political Influence, 1852 ==&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Even though it was short, this document was insightful because of the last sentence of it &amp;quot;This is the way American women should vote, namely, by influencing rightly the votes of men.&amp;quot; This sentence implies a sort of power which women have over their husbands within their household and I have to wonder to the extent which this so-called power manifested itself.  Sure, persuasion is powerful, but not having control of one&amp;#039;s finances or lifestyle cannot be construed as power. --Sara S. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Julie Roy Jeffrey, “Ordinary Women in the Antislavery Movement,” in the Introduction to The Great Silent Army of Abolitionism: Ordinary Women in the Anti-slavery Movement, 1998. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Nancy Isenberg’s “Women’s Rights and the Politics of Church and State in Antebellum America,” (1998) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Shirley Yee, “Free Black Women in the Abolitionist Movement,” in Black Women Abolitionists: A Study in Activism, 1828-1860, (1992). ==&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_10_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 10 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_10_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-10T14:15:53Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Sarah Haynesworth Gayle, “An Alabama Diary,” 1828, 1833 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;We talk about how a lot of women&amp;#039;s history comes from sources written by men. Therefore, it makes sense for African American sources to come form white owners or other white people. Gayle&amp;#039;s diary is a perfect example.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Even though she is mostly writing about her experiences, she does describe events and relationships with her slaves. Also, this source provides information not on only about African Americans but on the relationships with mistresses, who they most likely interacted the most. -- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While we have talked many times in class about the acceptance of separation between men and women who are no longer happily married, it never seemed real. I was quite intrigued then when I saw in Sarah Haynesworth Gayle diary entry for &amp;quot;Monday 6th July 1835&amp;quot; that &amp;quot;Mr. and Mrs. Matheson have parted.&amp;quot; It really brought out the fact that this did actually happen. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What this text really drove home for me was how commonplace slavery was in the lives of Southerners by the 1820s and &amp;#039;30s.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; While she makes little quips about her relations with her slaves, these comments are thrown in with her everyday happenings. It also reaffirms that slave resistance was also another common aspect of the relationship between slaves and their owners as evidenced by Sarah&amp;#039;s last entry where she comments on how difficult it is for her to control them. -- Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found the back and forth of Gayle&amp;#039;s diary to be very telling of the environment in which slave owners were raised in a way that seems to oppose human relationships.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It is clear that Gayle views her slaves as property but also provides comments that appear that she has a deeper emotional connection with them than southern society would allow for.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  However it appears that she doesn&amp;#039;t recognize this connection she has with them as she also comments on how she wants to live up to the standards of slave ownership set by her parents.  Could it be possible that the world in which people in the south lived totally removed their human compassion? --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While I agree with you, Rachel, that her diary shows how owner&amp;#039;s viewed their slaves as property, I don&amp;#039;t think it&amp;#039;s a matter of how compassionate a white owner is. I honestly believe that many whites did not see the problem with having slaves, and thought all slaves were property. I think it is more about a question of power. Whites are expected to hold all power, so they must dominate and rule over their slaves. --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it interesting that in Sarah Gayle’s diary she referred to her slaves as “servants.” Servant implies compensation for work done, however the “servants” she was referring to were obviously enslaved. Why would she, in a personal diary, refer to her slaves as “servants?”&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Could she be trying to hide some sort of guilt that she feels over slavery or selling slaves? It would make more sense if she called slaves servants in a public sphere. The fact that it is a private diary (that presumably no one else will read) is problematic. Could it be that her personal guilt is so much that she cannot even admit it to herself? --Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Boykin Chestnut’s diary, 1861 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an important source because it shows a woman who is part of a large slave-holding family realizing the atrocity of the slave system. One particularly important realization is that &amp;quot;Men and women are punished when their masters and mistresses are brutes and not when they do wrong...&amp;quot; This notion is related to that of &amp;quot;The Cruel Mistress,&amp;quot; in which the mistress would punish at her own whim regardless of whether the slaves had erred. Regardless of this insight, Chesnut still closes with &amp;quot;my countrywomen are as pure as angels - tho surrounded by another race who are -- the social evil!&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It seems that Chesnut believes the institution of slavery is wrong but not the idea of racism&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is Mary Chesnut referring to when she mentions  a car? Is it a carriage? Or a train car? Also, who is she referring to when she says &amp;quot;tho surrounded by another race who are--the social evil!&amp;quot; Is it the slaves? Or the men? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I agree with Clare, it is important (and quite refreshing) to take note that some whites in the south did think slavery was morally wrong.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I think this is one of my favorite sources because not only does she discuss the wrong in the men, but also of the women. She mentions how the men and women do wrong, but go unpunished. She says, &amp;quot;...every lady tells you who is the father of all the Mulatto children in every body&amp;#039;s house hold, but those in her own, she seems to think drop from the clouds or pretends so to think...&amp;quot; (222). She acknowledges the faults of both men and women in her society but concludes with her claiming her gratefulness for her country women. But I am a bit confused of who those country women are if they are not the ones she complains about earlier? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rose Williams’s Story in the Federal Writers’ Project Interviews, 1941. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Of all our readings this week, I think this is the one I&amp;#039;m going to be thinking about the longest. The contents were no shock to me; I&amp;#039;ve taken African American history classes and the substance of Rose Williams&amp;#039; life is a pretty familiar story. It felt different, though, to hear it from the source.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The part which really got under my skin was at the end, when she talks about deciding never to marry because &amp;quot;once was enough&amp;quot;. Being forced into something her master wanted to call a relationship, but which was only a well-organized rape, would be enough to put anybody off of the idea of marriage, but it still seems particularly sad to me because of how many ways her life might have been different if this had not happened. She also never says whether she had children, as her master wanted, and I wonder how that affected her life, as well. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This story really captivated me. I was surprised that Rufus stayed away at night when Rose would tell him she didn&amp;#039;t want to have relations with him. I know there is still some modesty and respect between the slaves no matter how much of a &amp;quot;bully&amp;quot; rufus was, but that really struck out to me. It was heartbreaking to know she never got married or ever wanted any other relation with a man because like Rebecca said, one time was enough. It was also surprising that from what we know from this account, Master Hawkins never had relations with Rose either to have more slave children, but instead put two slaves together and gave them a &amp;quot;home&amp;quot;. Obviously, it is not the best situation, but out of the cases of master-slave rape that we have studied, this sadly seems to be of somewhat better treatment than those. -- Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really liked this excerpt because of the dialect and how it doesn&amp;#039;t really seem like the editors took much out of her story. Through Rose&amp;#039;s story, it showed me what life was like for slave women on a daily basis. This article also opening my eyes to how many times slaves were threatedened by their masters. --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This story is even more sad because a ninety-year-old woman is recalling her systematic rape/forced cohabitation, and her final comments about one experience being enough show that in all the years that followed her experience, she was never able to truly move past her experiences with Hawkins and Rufus. They denied her the right to choose to have a family, even as a free woman: she was so traumatized that she couldn&amp;#039;t, even if she would have wanted to. It seems so indicative of the life of a young slave woman that she was essentially supposed to figure out why Rufus was in there with her; she essentially had to find out what was happening in bits and pieces, and the first time she was told what was actually happening it was as she was being threatened. It&amp;#039;s also sad because as a young adult, she had a strong sense of self-preservation, and you can see that that sort of gets stamped out of her through her experiences. I agree with Rebecca, this reading will definitely stay with me most. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This passage is extremely heart breaking. She thought her new master was saving her when he purchased her. If he didn&amp;#039;t buy her, she would have been separated from her parents. Little did she know, he wanted her so she could produce more slaves for him. She was so hurt, angry, and traumatized about the situation that she never got married. She took care of others for her entire life, until she was too old and blind to do so. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What Rebecca said hit the nail on the head; what her new master did was &amp;quot;well-organized rape.&amp;quot; I think that&amp;#039;s exactly it. We&amp;#039;ve been talking in class about romantic relationships between slaves, and interracial romance. We&amp;#039;ve also talked a lot about rape of black women by white men. But this was something I was unprepared for. I was surprised to see not only the rape of Rose Williams by a fellow slave, but also that it was organized by a master that she believed was fairer and had the slaves&amp;#039; interests in mind more than her previous master. This was an interesting read because I had hardly (and this is out of ignorance) even considered the rape of black women by black men. Now that I have read this, it seems as though this was another obvious situation that may have taken place. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Having heard Rose William’s story before in the documentary “Unchained Memories,” I already knew the outcome. However, reading Rose’s voice brought a different life to the story. Her emotion was clear in her reaction to her forceful “breeding” with Rufus. I thought it interesting that she was able to assert power in that situation by choosing to remain unmarried. Where her master could force her to have relations with Rufus, her master could not force her to love him or choose to marry him. It is interesting that she makes this point very clear at the end of her monologue. --Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It was stated that in the introduction to these interviews that some writer/interviewers chose to transcribe into dialect, and some converted the language to a more &amp;quot;proper&amp;quot; grammatical structure. I have mixed feelings about this. Although it may ostensibly be more loyal to the original speaker, dialect readings certainly do create an image for the reader of the interviewee, which may be prejudicial. On the other hand, would Rose Williams have spoken in textbook English? Of course not. Any thoughts? Also, she continually refers to herself as &amp;quot;this n---,&amp;quot; instead of &amp;quot;this woman,&amp;quot; or even &amp;quot;I&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;myself.&amp;quot; This habit reinforced for me the primacy of racial identity, over gender, class, etc&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lucinda, a free woman, requests reenslavement, 1813 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;How sad was this document???!!! A woman receiving her freedom and because she wanted to remain with her husband she asked to be reenslaved with her husband&amp;#039;s master!  It really makes you think of how detached these slave owners were to the human emotions of their slaves.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This just shows the bonds that some slave families had. He or she had been sold away from each other and even though she could have made a life for herself in the North she wanted to be with her husband. I think that while this document is sad because it shows how slave families were broken up over plantations it also shows how much love these lave families were able to develop. –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Connecticut woman asks other free black women to sign anti-slavery petitions, 1839 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I am confused as to why she was so adamant and trying to guilt trip them into signing the petitions. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;What good would an anti-slavery petition do?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It would make people aware of how many people were against slavery, but it&amp;#039;s not like it would stop it from happening. --Ashley V&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Still, black abolitionist, along with other Philadelphia free women, forms “Female Publication Society” to promote the moral uplift of free and slave African Americans, 1861 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find it interesting that Still follows the narrative of slaves being wicked and ignorant - isn&amp;#039;t that what the masters said to justify slavery? (And explain mistakes made by slaves.) I can&amp;#039;t really tell how she thinks that the moral state of slaves and the institution of slavery are linked. Would slaves (or even many free blacks) have access to a publication like the Christian Recorder anyway? --Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mrs. Virginia Hayes Shepherd’s memories, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thought that this was very interesting. It showed the different between two different slaves experiences told from the perspective of one. It allows the reader to gain an understanding of what the slaves saw rather than being told what they went through. I thought that it was interesting point of view. –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Thelma Jennings, “Sexual Exploitation of African American Slave Women,” 1990 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;There were so many disturbing things in this article that it&amp;#039;s hard to know where to start.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I guess one thing I found particularly striking was the general ignorance about health - it&amp;#039;s okay to beat a pregnant woman as long as you dig a hole for her stomach first? Did they really think that did anything at all to protect the fetus? I was also really surprised by the frequent use of the word &amp;quot;breeders.&amp;quot; Was that how slave women would have referred to themselves, or how whites would have referred to them, or was that a later term? -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thelma Jenning&amp;#039;s article really had me thinking about how often an occurrence Master and Slave produced children were. I automatically thought about Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemming&amp;#039;s and the result of their children (never sold and easily escaped). I never realized, however, the issue that was slave breeding. It makes (unfortunate) sense that it occurred because of the economics behind it, but even though this practice was not reportedly common, I wonder how often it really occurred. I also wonder when this practice was actually started, did it come out of the line of thought which included livestock breeding? Or was eugenics really being put into practice?-- Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This article was disturbing on so many levels.  I understand they were telling it like it was, but there is total disregard for a human life. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The talk about these slaves like they were livestock, &amp;quot;cow &amp;amp; bull&amp;quot;.  To breed these slaves was for economic reasons, was money so important back then or were you judged by how many slaves you had? or both?  If the white men didn&amp;#039;t want to claim their mulatto children then they should have refrained from having sexual relations with these slaves.  What did these men think was going to happen if they did have relations with these slaves? or did they even care?  Profit was the main goal.--Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;A Reply to Harriet Beecher Stowe&amp;quot; Louisa S. Cheeves McCord, 1853  ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I thought this document was enlightening and so interesting. True, she was writing things that by today&amp;#039;s standards are offensive and politically incorrect, but this is what primary sources offer to us, someone who isn&amp;#039;t ashamed to admit their beliefs. I want to offer a quote from the reading &amp;quot;To Conclude. We have undertaken the defence of slavery in no temporizing vein. We do NOT say it is a necessary evil. We do NOT allow that it is a temporary make-shift to choke the course of Providence for man&amp;#039;s convenience. It is NOT &amp;#039;a sorrow and a wrong to be lived down.&amp;#039; We proclaim it, on the contrary, a Godlike dispensation, a providential caring for the weak, and a refuge for the portionless.&amp;quot; (page 219).&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;   Understanding this statement helps one understand the entire patriarchal society. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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I really enjoyed Louisa McCords writing, she posed some very good points in comparison to what Ms. Stowe had written in &amp;#039;&amp;#039;Uncle Tom&amp;#039;s Cabin&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. Such as the fact that Ms. Stowe had never lived in the heart of the South, or that while Mrs. Shelby was suppose to be a strong intelligent woman she was portrayed as almost weak. While Ms. McCord made some very well argued points the one I could never agree with is that the black man is intellectually inferior to the white man. &amp;quot;Mrs. Stowe, in spite of experience, in spite of science, determines that the negro is intellectually the white man&amp;#039;s equal.&amp;quot; There is not science stating that they are unequal and how can she say that Mrs. Stowe has never experienced the intelligence of a black man? Just because she lived in the north doesn&amp;#039;t mean she never came in contact with them. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The sarcastic tone of this writing really drove me nuts.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I realize that comes from a modern perspective, but McCord&amp;#039;s alleged appeals to &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;common sense&amp;quot;, meant to prove that slaves are obviously better off in slavery are just that much more infuriating because of the superior tone she uses. The other thing, more intellectually interesting than annoying, is that her critique of the fictional Mrs. Shelby is very gendered. She excuses Mr. Shelby&amp;#039;s actions on the grounds that he is clearly hen-pecked and his crazy abolitionist wife has just driven him nuts. I have never read Uncle Tom&amp;#039;s Cabin, but I wonder what the context for this passage really is- I highly doubt that McCord is an unbiased commentator. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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Going off of what Rebecca wrote, I also was struck by the sarcasm and snide remarks made by L.S.M.  It was frustrating to read of how slavery was a HELPFUL institution to the slave race, who were a &amp;quot;blot upon creation&amp;quot; (220). The idea that slavery was an institution motivated by white benevolence is infuriating to read, especially after reading Angelina Weld&amp;#039;s account of a cruel slave-owning mistress. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I had an incredibly hard time not skipping the tail end of this article, or, better, ripping it out.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The idea that human beings could be viewed as &amp;quot;the homeless, useless negro...[who is] a blot upon creation...[and] a wild man&amp;quot; is deeply disturbing to me. Of course we&amp;#039;ve studied the institution of slavery itself, and how slaves were viewed in order to enable that institution, but the sarcasm dripping from this article, coupled with the casual nature with which McCord dismisses an entire race of people as a &amp;quot;blot upon creation,&amp;quot; was a deeper level of acidity and hatred than I&amp;#039;d really seen before. McCord does not view slavery as a necessary evil, or an evil of any kind; she views it almost, it seems, as a kindness to slaves that just happens to be enormously profitable to white slaveowners. Sara makes an excellent point--that this has to be contextualized in the time period in which it was written--but even then, the fact that McCord denies that it&amp;#039;s a necessary evil shows that at the very least, she had some sense of why Stowe wrote what she did, and what Stowe had meant to convey. I truly find it difficult to imagine that she was simply a product of her society, despite what Sara said; it seems to me that her hatred of slaves and championing of slavery hints at perhaps an unusually slavery-positive upbringing; it surprises me that, given her time in the North, she wasn&amp;#039;t at least somewhat more neutral... -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree with Nicole.  I was really upset that she had the nerve to justify slavery and every bad thing that goes with it.  When she says &amp;quot;Slavery, even in his own land, is his destiny and his refuge from extinction.&amp;quot; I wanted to yell at her, are you so self important that you think that there are humans (black or white) who are beneath you?  I think the answer is &amp;quot;yes!&amp;quot;  This was their train of thought during this time frame though, and it almost seems like they may have thought they were wrong but they still bought, sold, beat and made the slaves feel inferior.  I also fell that God was used as a way to say, hey what we are doing is God&amp;#039;s will.  They hid behind their religion, like in the document &amp;#039;&amp;#039;The Cruel Mistress&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. -- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Angelina Grimke Weld &amp;#039;&amp;#039;The Cruel Mistress&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- 1839 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Who is Weld and why is she writing?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; this source we hear the horrid stories of slavery. However, it is different because it does not focus on the oppressive white male but on the mistress. It is interesting to see the fault in white women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Also, it is interesting that Weld pushes on the physically abuse. She has to argue that most slave owners act like this cruel mistress. Even though she hints at slaves with souls, she focuses on the physically abuse. Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it is important that Angelina Grimke Weld continually emphasizes the the cruel mistress in question is &amp;quot;at the head of the fashionable elite city of Charleston&amp;quot; and more importantly &amp;quot;at the head of the moral and religious female society there.&amp;quot; It is astounding that someone who claims to be of moral and pious authority can be so abusive and uncaring. However, the violence against the slaves is justified by slaveholders because slaves are viewed as property and not actual human beings. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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Going off of what Clare wrote I have to point at that even Grimke ackonledges the belief that &amp;quot;God in his providence had set over them--it was their DUTY to abide in abject submission, and hers to COMPEL them to do so--IT WAS THUS THAT SHE REASONED&amp;quot; (page 216. the Capitalization is in place of italics). This wasn&amp;#039;t about cruelty to the woman mistresses, rather a belief that the slave was not a human being (mentioned at the end of the document). i also have to wonder to what extent the women mistresses were so violent and cruel had to do with an inadvert expression of their distaste for their own oppression. The slaves offerred them power so they took full advantage of it. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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While reading this entry I couldn&amp;#039;t help but doubt that humans could ever be this cruel. That Angelina Grimke Weld must be exaggerating the cruelness of slave owners, particularly because she is against the whole idea. But when you think about it, the evidence of the cruelty humans are capable of is all around us. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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Hypocrisy abounds in Weld&amp;#039;s description of a slave-owning mistress and how she treats her slaves yet maintains her role as a religious woman in the Charleston community. The justification that it was a slave&amp;#039;s &amp;quot;duty to abide in abject submission&amp;quot; is another reflection of the cruel slave society. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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We always mention the reasoning behind slavery and how Christianity &amp;quot;supported&amp;quot; it. But even with a different mentality from now and back in the time of Angelina Gimke Weld (1839), how could one explain that the same place for prayer and worship, was the same place for punishment (an inhumane and cruel punishment at that). I found it so mind boggling that she &amp;quot;order brothers to whip their own sisters and sisters their own brother, and yet no woman visited among the poor more than she did, or gave more liberally to relieve their wants.&amp;quot; (216) I understand slavery was acceptable, but this torture and punishment is almost inexplicable. -Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading this source the part that struck me the most was when Weld said, in regards to this woman&amp;#039;s cruel behavior that, &amp;quot; no disgrace among the slaveholders and did not in the least injure her standing, either as a lady or a christian, in the aristocratic circle in which she moved.&amp;quot;  It appears that Weld sees that christianity has been tainted by southern views to accommodate the treatment of slaveowners onto their slaves.  Could it be assumed that a part of Weld&amp;#039;s reaction to the South can be derived from Southerners skewing the ideals of christianity to fit their slave driven lifestyle?  For people like this cruel woman she discusses not only inhumanly treat their slaves but devalue a religion that is so important to those in the north.  -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I think the most disturbing part of this article was when Weld was describing the mistress as a &amp;quot;Christian.&amp;quot;  Using the room she prayed in as &amp;quot;the very place in which, when her slaves were to be whipped with the cowhide, they were taken to receive the infliction.&amp;quot;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The behavior of this woman was absolutely disgusting.  How she could carry herself throughout town as a &amp;quot;lady&amp;quot; and treat her slaves in the way she did, it seems unbelievable that this was ignored.  We think in our current society if this treatment was going on that we might step in and help whoever was getting abused.  Such a sad part of our history. --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This was a difficult reading for me, because it has so many layers. First, my 21st century moral superiority and emotional reactions, which have to be disregarded. Second, Grimke Weld&amp;#039;s motives for writing. I assumed that the story of the Cruel Mistress was an exaggerated composite story. I have tried to remember that there was a spectrum of attitudes and habits for slave mistresses, and it suits Weld&amp;#039;s purpose to identify the most evil person she can as the norm.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Stef L.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 11 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-10T14:08:08Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Violet Cragg requests an Army Pension, 1908 */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Mary Anne Sadlier&amp;#039;s Bessy Conway ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Who was Sadlier?  Why did she write this?  What biases should we be watching out for?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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For Irish families, such as the Conway&amp;#039;s, having a family member make the voyage to America was incredibly difficult. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The likelihood of that family member returning to Ireland was very low.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Mary Ann Sadlier describes this sentiment vividly by saying her family &amp;quot;felt at the moment as if they had left Bessy in the churchyard clay,&amp;quot; likening Bessy&amp;#039;s voyage to America to being like her death. This separation was not easy for Bessy or other Irish women for that matter. Perhaps this is why when Bessy arrived in New York, her &amp;quot;comrade-girls&amp;quot; assured her they were happy to see her and kind to her. These women want to try and form bonds with each other since they are all in similar situations.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found the way Sadlier wrote out Irish accents was really interesting. At first I thought maybe she was caricaturing the immigrants by exaggerating their accents, but then I found out that she was Irish herself. I also thought the interactions she wrote between the Irish men discussing whether or not selling alcohol was okay seemed really honest. I would have assumed initially that this was written by a white woman trying to scold Irish girls on the dangers of alcohol and men and probably not holding a very high opinion of her readers; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After realizing the author had gone through experiences like this herself, I trusted the story she was telling a bit more.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I was kind of amused by the accents, as well, and particularly the use of Irish language phrases, which she spells phonetically. Granted, Irish (Gaelic) is not easy for English speakers to read, so this makes sense, but she doesn&amp;#039;t translate them, either, which seems like it would be useless to most readers. I&amp;#039;m learning Irish, and the phrases are basic enough that I mostly knew what they meant, but I wonder how common that knowledge is, or whether the inclusion of foreign words is just meant to give a particular flavor to the dialogue. &lt;br /&gt;
On another subject, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;the beginning of the reading makes it very clear how unprepared immigrants could be for the realities of life in America.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The woman who plans to find her son is a perfect example of this, as she is unaware how far apart New York and Ohio are. It makes me think that culture shock must have been particularly bad for people who were arriving with so little idea of life in the US. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found really interesting was how excited to everyone was to be leaving for America. It was one big adventure and everyone&amp;#039;s lives were going to be improved, or so they thought. But while i really felt that sense of adventure waiting for them I also kept thinking in my head of everything we have learned of in the past week, of the real conditions of these ships, the number of people that died and the harsh reality of being in a new country and not really being excepted. It made me think, were people really that excited to leave and go to America? And then, How could they not be? It was the land of opportunity. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jannicke Saehle, 1847, Norwegian immigrant’s letters ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think one of the remarkable things about Saehle&amp;#039;s letter to her brother is that she has a strong faith. She even remarks that she wasn&amp;#039;t even scared on her journey to America and slept peacefully. Her high spirit and faith are really what keeps her going.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I wonder how many other women had as positive experience as her in their travels to America? Was she an exception?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree, she was incredibly optimistic. I almost think that this is an unrealistic representation of the experience of an young, single woman immigrant. I would be very surprised if every single immigrant felt that much ease when crossing the Atlantic, and I doubt that they would all be so optimistic about the work that they were doing.  I was also surprised with the Post Script, where she receives 3 acres of land. Was it common to give somebody doing domestic work land? --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, 1875-76 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about these bills of sale is how they reflect the situations these women were going through when they had to to be sold. While today a sum of $470, like in Mee Yung&amp;#039;s case (page 237) is laughable for four years of service today, we cannot know why or what the money paid for. Most likely this money went to paying for her passage over or to her destitute parents who desperately needed the money or thought her too much the burden to raise. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I do wonder where this money went and whether these women survived and moved beyond prostitution.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have to say that I knew of Chinese men coming over to work on railroads but I don&amp;#039;t know how I missed Chinese women coming over primarily as prostitutes for these men (and white men).  I am definitely interested in knowing what these women&amp;#039;s lives were like, after their contracts were up.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are the owners/masters all women? Chinese women at that, unlike slavery, are the master and the servant are of the same race and background. First off, if majority of the Chinese that immigrated were men, where do these women come from, and how do they have power? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Xin Jin&amp;#039;s Contract, San Francisco, 1886==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;When reading the Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, I was surprised by how standard they are. All work for about four years, are paid no wages, and there is no interest on the money.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Furthermore, extended periods of sickness add a month to the service. What I thought was most surprising was that the Chinese prostitutes all are contracted with other Chinese people. I had assumed they would be contracted to American people. I wonder why some Chinese did well enough to contract prostitutes while others did poor enough to have to work as prostitutes. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually had a problem with the introduction to this article. It talks about women existing as prostitutes but does not acknowledge why these women were there as prostitutes. This was NOT like the prostitution of white society.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; First, there were laws prohibiting all asians, but particularly women (who to the whites were of NO use but sexuality). Secondly, It was forbidden for these asian men to fraternize with women who were not asian.  Their numbers were not as high as that of blacks in the south so disobeying this law was not common and was severely punishable.  The existence of prostitution had nothing to do with one being well-off enough to contract a woman to be a prositute, but had more do to with the fact that these women had to be brought in illegally due to American immigration laws and cost a lot of time and money to do so. It is not mentioned in the introduction to this paragraph and is put immediately after a document about white prostitutes and i feel this is in bad taste. The hardships of Asians in America even until the end of the 1900&amp;#039;s are not that easily comparable to the hardships of those who could &amp;quot;pass&amp;quot; as english. --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading the XIn Jin article what stood out is the fact that 28% of Chinese women were involved in prostitution during this period.  Even though this is a significant number it goes against the stereotype of early Chinese immigrants where its assumed that the minimal number of women who did live in the US where all there as prostitutes. It is my guess that the lives these woman were forced to live is what stands out when viewing chinese females in this region.  However, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found the experience to Xin Jin to be very similar to the women described in the New York Prostitutes reading where once again men are controlling the sexual lives of these women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Forced into a life where sexual favors are their only means of survival helps to solidify to men and non immigrant women that these immigrant females were inferior in every way.  Is that negative stereotype still carried on to todays view of early Chinese immigration, where admittedly I even viewed the majority of these women, to be just prostitutes? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Did these women choose to come to America, or were they forced?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Was life in China really that bad? I don&amp;#039;t understand why they would put themselves through this when they don&amp;#039;t get any benefits from it. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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How sad that she was treated like an item or something you trade.  I was also wondering about what four loathsome disease&amp;#039;s she could get?  Also four and a half years for $524, I guess back then it was a lot of money and the restrictions she had on that loan must have been awful.  It also sound like to me that they didn&amp;#039;t treat the Chinese women very well and they had no other job skills so they could make their life better.  I wonder, like Ashley, did these women come forced or because they wanted to?-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Susan Shelby Magoffin in Santa Fe, 1846 ==&lt;br /&gt;
It strikes me as very strange that Magoffin refers to the noise of soldiers being &amp;quot;shocking to [her] delicate nerves.&amp;quot; (234) She&amp;#039;s described in the introduction to the Documents section as being a woman who traveled with her merchant husband out West; based on everything we know about the travel West, it was a dangerous, unforgiving trip--and one in which a person with &amp;quot;delicate nerves&amp;quot; would either toughen up or fall apart. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Clearly, Magoffin did not fall apart on the trip to NM, which begs the question: why didn&amp;#039;t she toughen up? Or was she in some way trying to regain the delicate sensibilities that women of the era were supposed to have?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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When I read this I compared the treatment of the Mexicans to that of the Blacks in the south during slavery. &amp;quot;...make them do it over, and over, and they continue in the same good humour, never mouthing and grumbling because they have too much to do, but remain perfectly submissive...&amp;quot; (234)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It made me wonder why the Mexicans were more obedient and complying?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I really enjoyed Susan Shelby Magoffin&amp;#039;s accounts of her life in Santa Fe. She seemed to be such a cheerful person especially compared to Mrs. A.M. Green in Colorado. To read her accounts of the Spanish Ball made me wish that I could have been there to see it all. I was confused a little by her description of &amp;quot;Dona Tula.&amp;quot; Who is this person and what exactly is her occupation? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Citizen protest of rape of Indian women in California, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about this primary document is how the notion of men being in constant search of sex is evolving. Instead of marking the Lieutenants acts of rape as manly and normal, citizens are instead standing up for these &amp;quot;squaws&amp;quot; and are arguing that he should be punished. Although this document still evidences to the prejudice against natives, there is a change in ideals of how men should treat all women and it makes me wonder if this change was drawn out or abrupt and what sparked the need for men&amp;#039;s ideals to change.-- Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I wonder what this says about the status of Native Americans in California at this time. Where did Native American women fit on the spectrum of &amp;quot;white women are pure and asexual, black women want sex all the time?&amp;quot; I guess they must have been closer to white women, in that it wasn&amp;#039;t considered okay for the Lieutenant to rape her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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Katie, I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps because in California there weren&amp;#039;t that many black people, and the Chinese were an added element, the Native American population in California occupied a role that didn&amp;#039;t exist in the east. --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Zitkala-Sa Travels to the Land of the Big Red Apples, 1884 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Although Zitkala-Sa was (according to the introduction) legitimately traveling to a school, the fantasy world that was described to her (a place where she could have all the apples she wanted!--and no downsides?) by the &amp;quot;palefaces&amp;quot;--and the idea of a group of white men coming in, gathering up children, and taking them away after only minimally describing what their lives would be like, seemed extremely suspect to me. The whole idea of people coming in, rounding up children or women, feeding them lies or half-truths, and then removing them from their lives is uncomfortably similar to the lies the Chinese women who were later contracted out as prostitutes may have been told. Indeed, those sorts of situations are still used to trap victims for sex trafficking today. So, even if Zitkala-Sa went to school, became highly-educated, and returned to her family as a contributing member of Dakota society, the circumstances for her original removal from her family remain highly sketchy to me. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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I absolutely agree with Nicole. This story seemed really sad to me. As soon as the little girl got onto the horse drawn wagon, and she felt that sense of regret immediately, I couldn&amp;#039;t help but be sad because I knew how much she regretted her decision, especially when her mom was so uncomfortable with the decision. But, I wondered where they were going in &amp;quot;the east&amp;quot;? And what school they were really going to? Like Nicole said, it all looked very shady and suspect to me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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As I was reading Big Red Apples, I found myself telling the little girl &amp;quot;no you don&amp;#039;t want to go with those men&amp;quot; knowing that she was either becoming enslaved or sold for sex.  Why didn&amp;#039;t these children listen to their parents? I guess because they were so young and impressionable it was easy to get the young kids to want to see the East and what kind of opportunities they were missing out on, when in all reality it was not somewhere they would want to end up.  The Mother in Big Red Apples knew that there was something suspicious going on, but also thought that her daughter was going to get an &amp;quot;education&amp;quot; and not knowing that this may be the last time she may see her daughter.-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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This story was amazing to me because of how trusting these families were. Zitkala-Sa&amp;#039;s family is only one example, but their reaction was probably not uncommon. The mother had misgivings, but gave in under gentle pressure and allowed her daughter to leave with complete strangers to an unknown destination with no way to contact her child. Like Nicole said, this could easily have resulted in forced prostitution. Why did these families place so much trust in the missionaries? -- Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mrs. A. M. Greene, in Colorado Territory -- Frontier life – 1887 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so sad. They were talking about what their family was going through and the hardships they had to face like moving west away from everything that they had known into a land that they were not familiar with. While they choose to go through all of this, I still think that it was so sad! –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree Kayle, this was so sad.  Moving your family to unknown places without the comforts that you know and possibly your extended family nearby...it must have been heartbreaking!  The men went off to work, but the women were left, alone to adjust.  Her children being her support to get her through the days.  At least in this tale of A.M. Green it seems like she had a caring husband who was concerned with her well-being.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Violet Cragg requests an Army Pension, 1908 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so complicated to get a pension.  She had to know all of the information down to dates, people, time, places. I don’t think that I would have been able to keep all of that information straight and all she was trying to do was get money that she was mostly likely entitled to. It is sad that she had to put that much effort into getting something that she deserves. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This is actually a very typical pension application&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;, from what I&amp;#039;ve seen of them. I&amp;#039;ve done quite a bit of research with Civil War pension files in the National Archives, and all of them ask for documentation such as this. Hers does have more dates and personal information than the soldiers&amp;#039; pensions that I&amp;#039;ve worked with, but all of their files require similar documentation. They must prove when and where they enlisted, that they are unable to support themselves, and that their disability is directly connected to their service. There must be support from others that this is true, and that they are who they say they are. So, it makes sense that she would have to prove when and where she served as well. I think all pension files are this detailed.&lt;br /&gt;
I&amp;#039;ve also worked with pension claims filed by mothers and wives of soldiers, and they are all concerned, as the latter part of Violet Cragg&amp;#039;s, with proving the relationship between the claimant and the soldier. Many of these files contain marriage certificates and piles of affidavits verifying that the two were related and that the claimant relied on the soldier for support. I&amp;#039;ve never been lucky enough to find one which included a picture, as Violet Cragg offers to send, and I wonder whether a picture was ever sent and included in the file. &lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Kayle that it does seem harsh to place this huge burden of proof on a person who has served their country, but it also makes sense that the Pension Bureau would guard against fraud, and that they would need all this documentation in order to award pensions to people who had no other means of support. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== New York Prostitutes by William Sanger, 1858==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;&amp;#039;When a woman drinks she is lost.&amp;#039; It will be conceded that the habit of intoxication in woman, if not an indication of actual depravity or vice, is a sure precursor of it, for drunkenness and debauchery are inspearable companions, one almost invariably following the other.&amp;quot; page 290. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I choose this quote to exemplify this document for a couple of reasons. 1. it is actually funny to think about how alcohol was viewed as this causer of evil, not as though the person was evil and alcohol just allowed them to be evil. 2. Because it does not mention the debauchery of men while they drink and is only concerned with women&amp;#039;s behavior when the entire prohbition and temperance movement sprung out of woman&amp;#039;s desire for men to stop drinking away all of the family&amp;#039;s money, sleeping with prostitutes and beating there wives when drunk. 3. I think the sympathy which the doctor had to these prostitutes is remarkable for the time period in which it existed.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading exemplifies the other side of the budding female independence that was taking shape during the rise of factories and cities.  With previous readings it appeared that by young women stepping outside of the home to work in factories was a viable way for them to financially support themselves until marriage.  Here the opposite of that is examined where women attempt to go out in the world but then struggle to survive and thus have to degrade themselves in order to live. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; With almost every case the reasoning concludes with mans shortcomings as a provider and caretaker for the woman, demonstrating that this view of the independent factory girl was far from being economically stable.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Like Sara I found it unique that the doctor showed sympathy towards these girls, yet even with prostitution being a massive issue was there no one else in a position of authority who cared enough to try and help out?  Or was the stigma that existed in regards to immigrants standing in the way of &amp;quot;Christianly&amp;quot; behavior to save them?  -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Ever sympathetic, Dr. Sanger saw his subjects as victims of the harsh urban environment: of family disorganization or disintegration, and especially of low wages, underemployment, and poverty,&amp;quot; (page 288). Dr. Sanger obviously felt bad for these women, 88% of which were of the ages 15-30. I actually began to have sympathy for some of them as well. I hope those women didn&amp;#039;t want to be prostitutes, but it was so common that they felt as if it were their only option. Men in their lives died or abandoned them and they had nothing and needed to provide for their children; this was a quick way to make money (not saying I agree with it). I kept having to second guess my feelings of sympathy because I&amp;#039;m sure some of the ladies made their story seem worse than it really was so that she would receive sympathy rather than looks of disgust. So many questions ran through my mind as I read. Did the friends and family they did have know what they were doing? Why didn&amp;#039;t anyone try to stop them? What other options were there? --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was surprised to find that many of these women in this section were once married and deserted. For some reason, I had not considered that even back in the nineteenth century, prostitution was a productive way to support oneself.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It is also unfortunate that, as Sanger said, these women were often victim to desertion or adultery by their husbands, and unfortunately felt as though they had to resort to prostitution. I also found it fascinating that in a time where the topic of sex was taboo, the &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; category made up one quarter of the causes of prostitution. That does not seem to fit into my schema of the time period. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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This excerpt reveals the sad state of prostitutes in the late nineteenth century. The negative effects of urban life drove many women, the majority of whom were immigrants, to the streets to support themselves and oftentimes their families (because of husbands who had died or had deserted them). I found the studies done by Dr. Sanger to be very interesting. I agree with Mary Beth: how interesting that &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; drew nearly the most number of responses when women were asked why they chose prostitution. Definitely an instance that defies the stereotype concerning sex and how it was discussed in society in the late nineteenth century. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I thought it was interesting that William Sanger spent much of his analysis on the “ill treatment of parents, relatives, or husbands” when “inclination” was much higher on the list. Perhaps Sanger felt that “inclination” was the choice of the women and thus was not worthy of explanation whereas, “ill-treatment of family” was a cause that could not be avoided and thus invokes pity. It is interesting to note the own biases in his writing.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Although a sound document, do you think the biases in his work hinder the information being expressed? --Hannah W.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 11 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-10T14:07:42Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* New York Prostitutes by William Sanger, 1858 */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;== Mary Anne Sadlier&amp;#039;s Bessy Conway ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Who was Sadlier?  Why did she write this?  What biases should we be watching out for?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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For Irish families, such as the Conway&amp;#039;s, having a family member make the voyage to America was incredibly difficult. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The likelihood of that family member returning to Ireland was very low.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Mary Ann Sadlier describes this sentiment vividly by saying her family &amp;quot;felt at the moment as if they had left Bessy in the churchyard clay,&amp;quot; likening Bessy&amp;#039;s voyage to America to being like her death. This separation was not easy for Bessy or other Irish women for that matter. Perhaps this is why when Bessy arrived in New York, her &amp;quot;comrade-girls&amp;quot; assured her they were happy to see her and kind to her. These women want to try and form bonds with each other since they are all in similar situations.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found the way Sadlier wrote out Irish accents was really interesting. At first I thought maybe she was caricaturing the immigrants by exaggerating their accents, but then I found out that she was Irish herself. I also thought the interactions she wrote between the Irish men discussing whether or not selling alcohol was okay seemed really honest. I would have assumed initially that this was written by a white woman trying to scold Irish girls on the dangers of alcohol and men and probably not holding a very high opinion of her readers; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After realizing the author had gone through experiences like this herself, I trusted the story she was telling a bit more.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I was kind of amused by the accents, as well, and particularly the use of Irish language phrases, which she spells phonetically. Granted, Irish (Gaelic) is not easy for English speakers to read, so this makes sense, but she doesn&amp;#039;t translate them, either, which seems like it would be useless to most readers. I&amp;#039;m learning Irish, and the phrases are basic enough that I mostly knew what they meant, but I wonder how common that knowledge is, or whether the inclusion of foreign words is just meant to give a particular flavor to the dialogue. &lt;br /&gt;
On another subject, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;the beginning of the reading makes it very clear how unprepared immigrants could be for the realities of life in America.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The woman who plans to find her son is a perfect example of this, as she is unaware how far apart New York and Ohio are. It makes me think that culture shock must have been particularly bad for people who were arriving with so little idea of life in the US. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found really interesting was how excited to everyone was to be leaving for America. It was one big adventure and everyone&amp;#039;s lives were going to be improved, or so they thought. But while i really felt that sense of adventure waiting for them I also kept thinking in my head of everything we have learned of in the past week, of the real conditions of these ships, the number of people that died and the harsh reality of being in a new country and not really being excepted. It made me think, were people really that excited to leave and go to America? And then, How could they not be? It was the land of opportunity. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jannicke Saehle, 1847, Norwegian immigrant’s letters ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think one of the remarkable things about Saehle&amp;#039;s letter to her brother is that she has a strong faith. She even remarks that she wasn&amp;#039;t even scared on her journey to America and slept peacefully. Her high spirit and faith are really what keeps her going.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I wonder how many other women had as positive experience as her in their travels to America? Was she an exception?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree, she was incredibly optimistic. I almost think that this is an unrealistic representation of the experience of an young, single woman immigrant. I would be very surprised if every single immigrant felt that much ease when crossing the Atlantic, and I doubt that they would all be so optimistic about the work that they were doing.  I was also surprised with the Post Script, where she receives 3 acres of land. Was it common to give somebody doing domestic work land? --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, 1875-76 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about these bills of sale is how they reflect the situations these women were going through when they had to to be sold. While today a sum of $470, like in Mee Yung&amp;#039;s case (page 237) is laughable for four years of service today, we cannot know why or what the money paid for. Most likely this money went to paying for her passage over or to her destitute parents who desperately needed the money or thought her too much the burden to raise. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I do wonder where this money went and whether these women survived and moved beyond prostitution.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have to say that I knew of Chinese men coming over to work on railroads but I don&amp;#039;t know how I missed Chinese women coming over primarily as prostitutes for these men (and white men).  I am definitely interested in knowing what these women&amp;#039;s lives were like, after their contracts were up.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are the owners/masters all women? Chinese women at that, unlike slavery, are the master and the servant are of the same race and background. First off, if majority of the Chinese that immigrated were men, where do these women come from, and how do they have power? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Xin Jin&amp;#039;s Contract, San Francisco, 1886==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;When reading the Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, I was surprised by how standard they are. All work for about four years, are paid no wages, and there is no interest on the money.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Furthermore, extended periods of sickness add a month to the service. What I thought was most surprising was that the Chinese prostitutes all are contracted with other Chinese people. I had assumed they would be contracted to American people. I wonder why some Chinese did well enough to contract prostitutes while others did poor enough to have to work as prostitutes. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually had a problem with the introduction to this article. It talks about women existing as prostitutes but does not acknowledge why these women were there as prostitutes. This was NOT like the prostitution of white society.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; First, there were laws prohibiting all asians, but particularly women (who to the whites were of NO use but sexuality). Secondly, It was forbidden for these asian men to fraternize with women who were not asian.  Their numbers were not as high as that of blacks in the south so disobeying this law was not common and was severely punishable.  The existence of prostitution had nothing to do with one being well-off enough to contract a woman to be a prositute, but had more do to with the fact that these women had to be brought in illegally due to American immigration laws and cost a lot of time and money to do so. It is not mentioned in the introduction to this paragraph and is put immediately after a document about white prostitutes and i feel this is in bad taste. The hardships of Asians in America even until the end of the 1900&amp;#039;s are not that easily comparable to the hardships of those who could &amp;quot;pass&amp;quot; as english. --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading the XIn Jin article what stood out is the fact that 28% of Chinese women were involved in prostitution during this period.  Even though this is a significant number it goes against the stereotype of early Chinese immigrants where its assumed that the minimal number of women who did live in the US where all there as prostitutes. It is my guess that the lives these woman were forced to live is what stands out when viewing chinese females in this region.  However, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found the experience to Xin Jin to be very similar to the women described in the New York Prostitutes reading where once again men are controlling the sexual lives of these women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Forced into a life where sexual favors are their only means of survival helps to solidify to men and non immigrant women that these immigrant females were inferior in every way.  Is that negative stereotype still carried on to todays view of early Chinese immigration, where admittedly I even viewed the majority of these women, to be just prostitutes? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Did these women choose to come to America, or were they forced?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Was life in China really that bad? I don&amp;#039;t understand why they would put themselves through this when they don&amp;#039;t get any benefits from it. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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How sad that she was treated like an item or something you trade.  I was also wondering about what four loathsome disease&amp;#039;s she could get?  Also four and a half years for $524, I guess back then it was a lot of money and the restrictions she had on that loan must have been awful.  It also sound like to me that they didn&amp;#039;t treat the Chinese women very well and they had no other job skills so they could make their life better.  I wonder, like Ashley, did these women come forced or because they wanted to?-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Susan Shelby Magoffin in Santa Fe, 1846 ==&lt;br /&gt;
It strikes me as very strange that Magoffin refers to the noise of soldiers being &amp;quot;shocking to [her] delicate nerves.&amp;quot; (234) She&amp;#039;s described in the introduction to the Documents section as being a woman who traveled with her merchant husband out West; based on everything we know about the travel West, it was a dangerous, unforgiving trip--and one in which a person with &amp;quot;delicate nerves&amp;quot; would either toughen up or fall apart. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Clearly, Magoffin did not fall apart on the trip to NM, which begs the question: why didn&amp;#039;t she toughen up? Or was she in some way trying to regain the delicate sensibilities that women of the era were supposed to have?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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When I read this I compared the treatment of the Mexicans to that of the Blacks in the south during slavery. &amp;quot;...make them do it over, and over, and they continue in the same good humour, never mouthing and grumbling because they have too much to do, but remain perfectly submissive...&amp;quot; (234)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It made me wonder why the Mexicans were more obedient and complying?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I really enjoyed Susan Shelby Magoffin&amp;#039;s accounts of her life in Santa Fe. She seemed to be such a cheerful person especially compared to Mrs. A.M. Green in Colorado. To read her accounts of the Spanish Ball made me wish that I could have been there to see it all. I was confused a little by her description of &amp;quot;Dona Tula.&amp;quot; Who is this person and what exactly is her occupation? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Citizen protest of rape of Indian women in California, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about this primary document is how the notion of men being in constant search of sex is evolving. Instead of marking the Lieutenants acts of rape as manly and normal, citizens are instead standing up for these &amp;quot;squaws&amp;quot; and are arguing that he should be punished. Although this document still evidences to the prejudice against natives, there is a change in ideals of how men should treat all women and it makes me wonder if this change was drawn out or abrupt and what sparked the need for men&amp;#039;s ideals to change.-- Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I wonder what this says about the status of Native Americans in California at this time. Where did Native American women fit on the spectrum of &amp;quot;white women are pure and asexual, black women want sex all the time?&amp;quot; I guess they must have been closer to white women, in that it wasn&amp;#039;t considered okay for the Lieutenant to rape her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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Katie, I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps because in California there weren&amp;#039;t that many black people, and the Chinese were an added element, the Native American population in California occupied a role that didn&amp;#039;t exist in the east. --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Zitkala-Sa Travels to the Land of the Big Red Apples, 1884 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Although Zitkala-Sa was (according to the introduction) legitimately traveling to a school, the fantasy world that was described to her (a place where she could have all the apples she wanted!--and no downsides?) by the &amp;quot;palefaces&amp;quot;--and the idea of a group of white men coming in, gathering up children, and taking them away after only minimally describing what their lives would be like, seemed extremely suspect to me. The whole idea of people coming in, rounding up children or women, feeding them lies or half-truths, and then removing them from their lives is uncomfortably similar to the lies the Chinese women who were later contracted out as prostitutes may have been told. Indeed, those sorts of situations are still used to trap victims for sex trafficking today. So, even if Zitkala-Sa went to school, became highly-educated, and returned to her family as a contributing member of Dakota society, the circumstances for her original removal from her family remain highly sketchy to me. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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I absolutely agree with Nicole. This story seemed really sad to me. As soon as the little girl got onto the horse drawn wagon, and she felt that sense of regret immediately, I couldn&amp;#039;t help but be sad because I knew how much she regretted her decision, especially when her mom was so uncomfortable with the decision. But, I wondered where they were going in &amp;quot;the east&amp;quot;? And what school they were really going to? Like Nicole said, it all looked very shady and suspect to me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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As I was reading Big Red Apples, I found myself telling the little girl &amp;quot;no you don&amp;#039;t want to go with those men&amp;quot; knowing that she was either becoming enslaved or sold for sex.  Why didn&amp;#039;t these children listen to their parents? I guess because they were so young and impressionable it was easy to get the young kids to want to see the East and what kind of opportunities they were missing out on, when in all reality it was not somewhere they would want to end up.  The Mother in Big Red Apples knew that there was something suspicious going on, but also thought that her daughter was going to get an &amp;quot;education&amp;quot; and not knowing that this may be the last time she may see her daughter.-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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This story was amazing to me because of how trusting these families were. Zitkala-Sa&amp;#039;s family is only one example, but their reaction was probably not uncommon. The mother had misgivings, but gave in under gentle pressure and allowed her daughter to leave with complete strangers to an unknown destination with no way to contact her child. Like Nicole said, this could easily have resulted in forced prostitution. Why did these families place so much trust in the missionaries? -- Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mrs. A. M. Greene, in Colorado Territory -- Frontier life – 1887 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so sad. They were talking about what their family was going through and the hardships they had to face like moving west away from everything that they had known into a land that they were not familiar with. While they choose to go through all of this, I still think that it was so sad! –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree Kayle, this was so sad.  Moving your family to unknown places without the comforts that you know and possibly your extended family nearby...it must have been heartbreaking!  The men went off to work, but the women were left, alone to adjust.  Her children being her support to get her through the days.  At least in this tale of A.M. Green it seems like she had a caring husband who was concerned with her well-being.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Violet Cragg requests an Army Pension, 1908 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so complicated to get a pension.  She had to know all of the information down to dates, people, time, places. I don’t think that I would have been able to keep all of that information straight and all she was trying to do was get money that she was mostly likely entitled to. It is sad that she had to put that much effort into getting something that she deserves. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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This is actually a very typical pension application, from what I&amp;#039;ve seen of them. I&amp;#039;ve done quite a bit of research with Civil War pension files in the National Archives, and all of them ask for documentation such as this. Hers does have more dates and personal information than the soldiers&amp;#039; pensions that I&amp;#039;ve worked with, but all of their files require similar documentation. They must prove when and where they enlisted, that they are unable to support themselves, and that their disability is directly connected to their service. There must be support from others that this is true, and that they are who they say they are. So, it makes sense that she would have to prove when and where she served as well. I think all pension files are this detailed.&lt;br /&gt;
I&amp;#039;ve also worked with pension claims filed by mothers and wives of soldiers, and they are all concerned, as the latter part of Violet Cragg&amp;#039;s, with proving the relationship between the claimant and the soldier. Many of these files contain marriage certificates and piles of affidavits verifying that the two were related and that the claimant relied on the soldier for support. I&amp;#039;ve never been lucky enough to find one which included a picture, as Violet Cragg offers to send, and I wonder whether a picture was ever sent and included in the file. &lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Kayle that it does seem harsh to place this huge burden of proof on a person who has served their country, but it also makes sense that the Pension Bureau would guard against fraud, and that they would need all this documentation in order to award pensions to people who had no other means of support. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== New York Prostitutes by William Sanger, 1858==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;&amp;#039;When a woman drinks she is lost.&amp;#039; It will be conceded that the habit of intoxication in woman, if not an indication of actual depravity or vice, is a sure precursor of it, for drunkenness and debauchery are inspearable companions, one almost invariably following the other.&amp;quot; page 290. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I choose this quote to exemplify this document for a couple of reasons. 1. it is actually funny to think about how alcohol was viewed as this causer of evil, not as though the person was evil and alcohol just allowed them to be evil. 2. Because it does not mention the debauchery of men while they drink and is only concerned with women&amp;#039;s behavior when the entire prohbition and temperance movement sprung out of woman&amp;#039;s desire for men to stop drinking away all of the family&amp;#039;s money, sleeping with prostitutes and beating there wives when drunk. 3. I think the sympathy which the doctor had to these prostitutes is remarkable for the time period in which it existed.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading exemplifies the other side of the budding female independence that was taking shape during the rise of factories and cities.  With previous readings it appeared that by young women stepping outside of the home to work in factories was a viable way for them to financially support themselves until marriage.  Here the opposite of that is examined where women attempt to go out in the world but then struggle to survive and thus have to degrade themselves in order to live. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; With almost every case the reasoning concludes with mans shortcomings as a provider and caretaker for the woman, demonstrating that this view of the independent factory girl was far from being economically stable.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Like Sara I found it unique that the doctor showed sympathy towards these girls, yet even with prostitution being a massive issue was there no one else in a position of authority who cared enough to try and help out?  Or was the stigma that existed in regards to immigrants standing in the way of &amp;quot;Christianly&amp;quot; behavior to save them?  -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Ever sympathetic, Dr. Sanger saw his subjects as victims of the harsh urban environment: of family disorganization or disintegration, and especially of low wages, underemployment, and poverty,&amp;quot; (page 288). Dr. Sanger obviously felt bad for these women, 88% of which were of the ages 15-30. I actually began to have sympathy for some of them as well. I hope those women didn&amp;#039;t want to be prostitutes, but it was so common that they felt as if it were their only option. Men in their lives died or abandoned them and they had nothing and needed to provide for their children; this was a quick way to make money (not saying I agree with it). I kept having to second guess my feelings of sympathy because I&amp;#039;m sure some of the ladies made their story seem worse than it really was so that she would receive sympathy rather than looks of disgust. So many questions ran through my mind as I read. Did the friends and family they did have know what they were doing? Why didn&amp;#039;t anyone try to stop them? What other options were there? --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was surprised to find that many of these women in this section were once married and deserted. For some reason, I had not considered that even back in the nineteenth century, prostitution was a productive way to support oneself.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It is also unfortunate that, as Sanger said, these women were often victim to desertion or adultery by their husbands, and unfortunately felt as though they had to resort to prostitution. I also found it fascinating that in a time where the topic of sex was taboo, the &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; category made up one quarter of the causes of prostitution. That does not seem to fit into my schema of the time period. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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This excerpt reveals the sad state of prostitutes in the late nineteenth century. The negative effects of urban life drove many women, the majority of whom were immigrants, to the streets to support themselves and oftentimes their families (because of husbands who had died or had deserted them). I found the studies done by Dr. Sanger to be very interesting. I agree with Mary Beth: how interesting that &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; drew nearly the most number of responses when women were asked why they chose prostitution. Definitely an instance that defies the stereotype concerning sex and how it was discussed in society in the late nineteenth century. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I thought it was interesting that William Sanger spent much of his analysis on the “ill treatment of parents, relatives, or husbands” when “inclination” was much higher on the list. Perhaps Sanger felt that “inclination” was the choice of the women and thus was not worthy of explanation whereas, “ill-treatment of family” was a cause that could not be avoided and thus invokes pity. It is interesting to note the own biases in his writing.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Although a sound document, do you think the biases in his work hinder the information being expressed? --Hannah W.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 11 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-10T14:06:05Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Citizen protest of rape of Indian women in California, 1862 */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Mary Anne Sadlier&amp;#039;s Bessy Conway ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Who was Sadlier?  Why did she write this?  What biases should we be watching out for?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Irish families, such as the Conway&amp;#039;s, having a family member make the voyage to America was incredibly difficult. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The likelihood of that family member returning to Ireland was very low.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Mary Ann Sadlier describes this sentiment vividly by saying her family &amp;quot;felt at the moment as if they had left Bessy in the churchyard clay,&amp;quot; likening Bessy&amp;#039;s voyage to America to being like her death. This separation was not easy for Bessy or other Irish women for that matter. Perhaps this is why when Bessy arrived in New York, her &amp;quot;comrade-girls&amp;quot; assured her they were happy to see her and kind to her. These women want to try and form bonds with each other since they are all in similar situations.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found the way Sadlier wrote out Irish accents was really interesting. At first I thought maybe she was caricaturing the immigrants by exaggerating their accents, but then I found out that she was Irish herself. I also thought the interactions she wrote between the Irish men discussing whether or not selling alcohol was okay seemed really honest. I would have assumed initially that this was written by a white woman trying to scold Irish girls on the dangers of alcohol and men and probably not holding a very high opinion of her readers; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After realizing the author had gone through experiences like this herself, I trusted the story she was telling a bit more.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I was kind of amused by the accents, as well, and particularly the use of Irish language phrases, which she spells phonetically. Granted, Irish (Gaelic) is not easy for English speakers to read, so this makes sense, but she doesn&amp;#039;t translate them, either, which seems like it would be useless to most readers. I&amp;#039;m learning Irish, and the phrases are basic enough that I mostly knew what they meant, but I wonder how common that knowledge is, or whether the inclusion of foreign words is just meant to give a particular flavor to the dialogue. &lt;br /&gt;
On another subject, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;the beginning of the reading makes it very clear how unprepared immigrants could be for the realities of life in America.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The woman who plans to find her son is a perfect example of this, as she is unaware how far apart New York and Ohio are. It makes me think that culture shock must have been particularly bad for people who were arriving with so little idea of life in the US. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found really interesting was how excited to everyone was to be leaving for America. It was one big adventure and everyone&amp;#039;s lives were going to be improved, or so they thought. But while i really felt that sense of adventure waiting for them I also kept thinking in my head of everything we have learned of in the past week, of the real conditions of these ships, the number of people that died and the harsh reality of being in a new country and not really being excepted. It made me think, were people really that excited to leave and go to America? And then, How could they not be? It was the land of opportunity. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jannicke Saehle, 1847, Norwegian immigrant’s letters ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think one of the remarkable things about Saehle&amp;#039;s letter to her brother is that she has a strong faith. She even remarks that she wasn&amp;#039;t even scared on her journey to America and slept peacefully. Her high spirit and faith are really what keeps her going.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I wonder how many other women had as positive experience as her in their travels to America? Was she an exception?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree, she was incredibly optimistic. I almost think that this is an unrealistic representation of the experience of an young, single woman immigrant. I would be very surprised if every single immigrant felt that much ease when crossing the Atlantic, and I doubt that they would all be so optimistic about the work that they were doing.  I was also surprised with the Post Script, where she receives 3 acres of land. Was it common to give somebody doing domestic work land? --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, 1875-76 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about these bills of sale is how they reflect the situations these women were going through when they had to to be sold. While today a sum of $470, like in Mee Yung&amp;#039;s case (page 237) is laughable for four years of service today, we cannot know why or what the money paid for. Most likely this money went to paying for her passage over or to her destitute parents who desperately needed the money or thought her too much the burden to raise. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I do wonder where this money went and whether these women survived and moved beyond prostitution.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have to say that I knew of Chinese men coming over to work on railroads but I don&amp;#039;t know how I missed Chinese women coming over primarily as prostitutes for these men (and white men).  I am definitely interested in knowing what these women&amp;#039;s lives were like, after their contracts were up.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are the owners/masters all women? Chinese women at that, unlike slavery, are the master and the servant are of the same race and background. First off, if majority of the Chinese that immigrated were men, where do these women come from, and how do they have power? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Xin Jin&amp;#039;s Contract, San Francisco, 1886==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;When reading the Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, I was surprised by how standard they are. All work for about four years, are paid no wages, and there is no interest on the money.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Furthermore, extended periods of sickness add a month to the service. What I thought was most surprising was that the Chinese prostitutes all are contracted with other Chinese people. I had assumed they would be contracted to American people. I wonder why some Chinese did well enough to contract prostitutes while others did poor enough to have to work as prostitutes. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually had a problem with the introduction to this article. It talks about women existing as prostitutes but does not acknowledge why these women were there as prostitutes. This was NOT like the prostitution of white society.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; First, there were laws prohibiting all asians, but particularly women (who to the whites were of NO use but sexuality). Secondly, It was forbidden for these asian men to fraternize with women who were not asian.  Their numbers were not as high as that of blacks in the south so disobeying this law was not common and was severely punishable.  The existence of prostitution had nothing to do with one being well-off enough to contract a woman to be a prositute, but had more do to with the fact that these women had to be brought in illegally due to American immigration laws and cost a lot of time and money to do so. It is not mentioned in the introduction to this paragraph and is put immediately after a document about white prostitutes and i feel this is in bad taste. The hardships of Asians in America even until the end of the 1900&amp;#039;s are not that easily comparable to the hardships of those who could &amp;quot;pass&amp;quot; as english. --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In reading the XIn Jin article what stood out is the fact that 28% of Chinese women were involved in prostitution during this period.  Even though this is a significant number it goes against the stereotype of early Chinese immigrants where its assumed that the minimal number of women who did live in the US where all there as prostitutes. It is my guess that the lives these woman were forced to live is what stands out when viewing chinese females in this region.  However, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found the experience to Xin Jin to be very similar to the women described in the New York Prostitutes reading where once again men are controlling the sexual lives of these women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Forced into a life where sexual favors are their only means of survival helps to solidify to men and non immigrant women that these immigrant females were inferior in every way.  Is that negative stereotype still carried on to todays view of early Chinese immigration, where admittedly I even viewed the majority of these women, to be just prostitutes? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Did these women choose to come to America, or were they forced?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Was life in China really that bad? I don&amp;#039;t understand why they would put themselves through this when they don&amp;#039;t get any benefits from it. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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How sad that she was treated like an item or something you trade.  I was also wondering about what four loathsome disease&amp;#039;s she could get?  Also four and a half years for $524, I guess back then it was a lot of money and the restrictions she had on that loan must have been awful.  It also sound like to me that they didn&amp;#039;t treat the Chinese women very well and they had no other job skills so they could make their life better.  I wonder, like Ashley, did these women come forced or because they wanted to?-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Susan Shelby Magoffin in Santa Fe, 1846 ==&lt;br /&gt;
It strikes me as very strange that Magoffin refers to the noise of soldiers being &amp;quot;shocking to [her] delicate nerves.&amp;quot; (234) She&amp;#039;s described in the introduction to the Documents section as being a woman who traveled with her merchant husband out West; based on everything we know about the travel West, it was a dangerous, unforgiving trip--and one in which a person with &amp;quot;delicate nerves&amp;quot; would either toughen up or fall apart. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Clearly, Magoffin did not fall apart on the trip to NM, which begs the question: why didn&amp;#039;t she toughen up? Or was she in some way trying to regain the delicate sensibilities that women of the era were supposed to have?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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When I read this I compared the treatment of the Mexicans to that of the Blacks in the south during slavery. &amp;quot;...make them do it over, and over, and they continue in the same good humour, never mouthing and grumbling because they have too much to do, but remain perfectly submissive...&amp;quot; (234)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It made me wonder why the Mexicans were more obedient and complying?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really enjoyed Susan Shelby Magoffin&amp;#039;s accounts of her life in Santa Fe. She seemed to be such a cheerful person especially compared to Mrs. A.M. Green in Colorado. To read her accounts of the Spanish Ball made me wish that I could have been there to see it all. I was confused a little by her description of &amp;quot;Dona Tula.&amp;quot; Who is this person and what exactly is her occupation? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Citizen protest of rape of Indian women in California, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about this primary document is how the notion of men being in constant search of sex is evolving. Instead of marking the Lieutenants acts of rape as manly and normal, citizens are instead standing up for these &amp;quot;squaws&amp;quot; and are arguing that he should be punished. Although this document still evidences to the prejudice against natives, there is a change in ideals of how men should treat all women and it makes me wonder if this change was drawn out or abrupt and what sparked the need for men&amp;#039;s ideals to change.-- Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I wonder what this says about the status of Native Americans in California at this time. Where did Native American women fit on the spectrum of &amp;quot;white women are pure and asexual, black women want sex all the time?&amp;quot; I guess they must have been closer to white women, in that it wasn&amp;#039;t considered okay for the Lieutenant to rape her.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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Katie, I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps because in California there weren&amp;#039;t that many black people, and the Chinese were an added element, the Native American population in California occupied a role that didn&amp;#039;t exist in the east. --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Zitkala-Sa Travels to the Land of the Big Red Apples, 1884 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Although Zitkala-Sa was (according to the introduction) legitimately traveling to a school, the fantasy world that was described to her (a place where she could have all the apples she wanted!--and no downsides?) by the &amp;quot;palefaces&amp;quot;--and the idea of a group of white men coming in, gathering up children, and taking them away after only minimally describing what their lives would be like, seemed extremely suspect to me. The whole idea of people coming in, rounding up children or women, feeding them lies or half-truths, and then removing them from their lives is uncomfortably similar to the lies the Chinese women who were later contracted out as prostitutes may have been told. Indeed, those sorts of situations are still used to trap victims for sex trafficking today. So, even if Zitkala-Sa went to school, became highly-educated, and returned to her family as a contributing member of Dakota society, the circumstances for her original removal from her family remain highly sketchy to me. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I absolutely agree with Nicole. This story seemed really sad to me. As soon as the little girl got onto the horse drawn wagon, and she felt that sense of regret immediately, I couldn&amp;#039;t help but be sad because I knew how much she regretted her decision, especially when her mom was so uncomfortable with the decision. But, I wondered where they were going in &amp;quot;the east&amp;quot;? And what school they were really going to? Like Nicole said, it all looked very shady and suspect to me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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As I was reading Big Red Apples, I found myself telling the little girl &amp;quot;no you don&amp;#039;t want to go with those men&amp;quot; knowing that she was either becoming enslaved or sold for sex.  Why didn&amp;#039;t these children listen to their parents? I guess because they were so young and impressionable it was easy to get the young kids to want to see the East and what kind of opportunities they were missing out on, when in all reality it was not somewhere they would want to end up.  The Mother in Big Red Apples knew that there was something suspicious going on, but also thought that her daughter was going to get an &amp;quot;education&amp;quot; and not knowing that this may be the last time she may see her daughter.-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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This story was amazing to me because of how trusting these families were. Zitkala-Sa&amp;#039;s family is only one example, but their reaction was probably not uncommon. The mother had misgivings, but gave in under gentle pressure and allowed her daughter to leave with complete strangers to an unknown destination with no way to contact her child. Like Nicole said, this could easily have resulted in forced prostitution. Why did these families place so much trust in the missionaries? -- Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mrs. A. M. Greene, in Colorado Territory -- Frontier life – 1887 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This was so sad. They were talking about what their family was going through and the hardships they had to face like moving west away from everything that they had known into a land that they were not familiar with. While they choose to go through all of this, I still think that it was so sad! –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree Kayle, this was so sad.  Moving your family to unknown places without the comforts that you know and possibly your extended family nearby...it must have been heartbreaking!  The men went off to work, but the women were left, alone to adjust.  Her children being her support to get her through the days.  At least in this tale of A.M. Green it seems like she had a caring husband who was concerned with her well-being.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Violet Cragg requests an Army Pension, 1908 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This was so complicated to get a pension.  She had to know all of the information down to dates, people, time, places. I don’t think that I would have been able to keep all of that information straight and all she was trying to do was get money that she was mostly likely entitled to. It is sad that she had to put that much effort into getting something that she deserves. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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This is actually a very typical pension application, from what I&amp;#039;ve seen of them. I&amp;#039;ve done quite a bit of research with Civil War pension files in the National Archives, and all of them ask for documentation such as this. Hers does have more dates and personal information than the soldiers&amp;#039; pensions that I&amp;#039;ve worked with, but all of their files require similar documentation. They must prove when and where they enlisted, that they are unable to support themselves, and that their disability is directly connected to their service. There must be support from others that this is true, and that they are who they say they are. So, it makes sense that she would have to prove when and where she served as well. I think all pension files are this detailed.&lt;br /&gt;
I&amp;#039;ve also worked with pension claims filed by mothers and wives of soldiers, and they are all concerned, as the latter part of Violet Cragg&amp;#039;s, with proving the relationship between the claimant and the soldier. Many of these files contain marriage certificates and piles of affidavits verifying that the two were related and that the claimant relied on the soldier for support. I&amp;#039;ve never been lucky enough to find one which included a picture, as Violet Cragg offers to send, and I wonder whether a picture was ever sent and included in the file. &lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Kayle that it does seem harsh to place this huge burden of proof on a person who has served their country, but it also makes sense that the Pension Bureau would guard against fraud, and that they would need all this documentation in order to award pensions to people who had no other means of support. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== New York Prostitutes by William Sanger, 1858==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;&amp;#039;When a woman drinks she is lost.&amp;#039; It will be conceded that the habit of intoxication in woman, if not an indication of actual depravity or vice, is a sure precursor of it, for drunkenness and debauchery are inspearable companions, one almost invariably following the other.&amp;quot; page 290. I choose this quote to exemplify this document for a couple of reasons. 1. it is actually funny to think about how alcohol was viewed as this causer of evil, not as though the person was evil and alcohol just allowed them to be evil. 2. Because it does not mention the debauchery of men while they drink and is only concerned with women&amp;#039;s behavior when the entire prohbition and temperance movement sprung out of woman&amp;#039;s desire for men to stop drinking away all of the family&amp;#039;s money, sleeping with prostitutes and beating there wives when drunk. 3. I think the sympathy which the doctor had to these prostitutes is remarkable for the time period in which it existed. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This reading exemplifies the other side of the budding female independence that was taking shape during the rise of factories and cities.  With previous readings it appeared that by young women stepping outside of the home to work in factories was a viable way for them to financially support themselves until marriage.  Here the opposite of that is examined where women attempt to go out in the world but then struggle to survive and thus have to degrade themselves in order to live.  With almost every case the reasoning concludes with mans shortcomings as a provider and caretaker for the woman, demonstrating that this view of the independent factory girl was far from being economically stable.  Like Sara I found it unique that the doctor showed sympathy towards these girls, yet even with prostitution being a massive issue was there no one else in a position of authority who cared enough to try and help out?  Or was the stigma that existed in regards to immigrants standing in the way of &amp;quot;Christianly&amp;quot; behavior to save them?  -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Ever sympathetic, Dr. Sanger saw his subjects as victims of the harsh urban environment: of family disorganization or disintegration, and especially of low wages, underemployment, and poverty,&amp;quot; (page 288). Dr. Sanger obviously felt bad for these women, 88% of which were of the ages 15-30. I actually began to have sympathy for some of them as well. I hope those women didn&amp;#039;t want to be prostitutes, but it was so common that they felt as if it were their only option. Men in their lives died or abandoned them and they had nothing and needed to provide for their children; this was a quick way to make money (not saying I agree with it). I kept having to second guess my feelings of sympathy because I&amp;#039;m sure some of the ladies made their story seem worse than it really was so that she would receive sympathy rather than looks of disgust. So many questions ran through my mind as I read. Did the friends and family they did have know what they were doing? Why didn&amp;#039;t anyone try to stop them? What other options were there? --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was surprised to find that many of these women in this section were once married and deserted. For some reason, I had not considered that even back in the nineteenth century, prostitution was a productive way to support oneself. It is also unfortunate that, as Sanger said, these women were often victim to desertion or adultery by their husbands, and unfortunately felt as though they had to resort to prostitution. I also found it fascinating that in a time where the topic of sex was taboo, the &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; category made up one quarter of the causes of prostitution. That does not seem to fit into my schema of the time period. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This excerpt reveals the sad state of prostitutes in the late nineteenth century. The negative effects of urban life drove many women, the majority of whom were immigrants, to the streets to support themselves and oftentimes their families (because of husbands who had died or had deserted them). I found the studies done by Dr. Sanger to be very interesting. I agree with Mary Beth: how interesting that &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; drew nearly the most number of responses when women were asked why they chose prostitution. Definitely an instance that defies the stereotype concerning sex and how it was discussed in society in the late nineteenth century. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thought it was interesting that William Sanger spent much of his analysis on the “ill treatment of parents, relatives, or husbands” when “inclination” was much higher on the list. Perhaps Sanger felt that “inclination” was the choice of the women and thus was not worthy of explanation whereas, “ill-treatment of family” was a cause that could not be avoided and thus invokes pity. It is interesting to note the own biases in his writing. Although a sound document, do you think the biases in his work hinder the information being expressed? --Hannah W.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 11 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-10T14:05:15Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Mary Anne Sadlier&amp;#039;s Bessy Conway ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Who was Sadlier?  Why did she write this?  What biases should we be watching out for?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Irish families, such as the Conway&amp;#039;s, having a family member make the voyage to America was incredibly difficult. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The likelihood of that family member returning to Ireland was very low.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Mary Ann Sadlier describes this sentiment vividly by saying her family &amp;quot;felt at the moment as if they had left Bessy in the churchyard clay,&amp;quot; likening Bessy&amp;#039;s voyage to America to being like her death. This separation was not easy for Bessy or other Irish women for that matter. Perhaps this is why when Bessy arrived in New York, her &amp;quot;comrade-girls&amp;quot; assured her they were happy to see her and kind to her. These women want to try and form bonds with each other since they are all in similar situations.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found the way Sadlier wrote out Irish accents was really interesting. At first I thought maybe she was caricaturing the immigrants by exaggerating their accents, but then I found out that she was Irish herself. I also thought the interactions she wrote between the Irish men discussing whether or not selling alcohol was okay seemed really honest. I would have assumed initially that this was written by a white woman trying to scold Irish girls on the dangers of alcohol and men and probably not holding a very high opinion of her readers; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After realizing the author had gone through experiences like this herself, I trusted the story she was telling a bit more.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I was kind of amused by the accents, as well, and particularly the use of Irish language phrases, which she spells phonetically. Granted, Irish (Gaelic) is not easy for English speakers to read, so this makes sense, but she doesn&amp;#039;t translate them, either, which seems like it would be useless to most readers. I&amp;#039;m learning Irish, and the phrases are basic enough that I mostly knew what they meant, but I wonder how common that knowledge is, or whether the inclusion of foreign words is just meant to give a particular flavor to the dialogue. &lt;br /&gt;
On another subject, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;the beginning of the reading makes it very clear how unprepared immigrants could be for the realities of life in America.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The woman who plans to find her son is a perfect example of this, as she is unaware how far apart New York and Ohio are. It makes me think that culture shock must have been particularly bad for people who were arriving with so little idea of life in the US. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found really interesting was how excited to everyone was to be leaving for America. It was one big adventure and everyone&amp;#039;s lives were going to be improved, or so they thought. But while i really felt that sense of adventure waiting for them I also kept thinking in my head of everything we have learned of in the past week, of the real conditions of these ships, the number of people that died and the harsh reality of being in a new country and not really being excepted. It made me think, were people really that excited to leave and go to America? And then, How could they not be? It was the land of opportunity. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jannicke Saehle, 1847, Norwegian immigrant’s letters ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think one of the remarkable things about Saehle&amp;#039;s letter to her brother is that she has a strong faith. She even remarks that she wasn&amp;#039;t even scared on her journey to America and slept peacefully. Her high spirit and faith are really what keeps her going.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I wonder how many other women had as positive experience as her in their travels to America? Was she an exception?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree, she was incredibly optimistic. I almost think that this is an unrealistic representation of the experience of an young, single woman immigrant. I would be very surprised if every single immigrant felt that much ease when crossing the Atlantic, and I doubt that they would all be so optimistic about the work that they were doing.  I was also surprised with the Post Script, where she receives 3 acres of land. Was it common to give somebody doing domestic work land? --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, 1875-76 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about these bills of sale is how they reflect the situations these women were going through when they had to to be sold. While today a sum of $470, like in Mee Yung&amp;#039;s case (page 237) is laughable for four years of service today, we cannot know why or what the money paid for. Most likely this money went to paying for her passage over or to her destitute parents who desperately needed the money or thought her too much the burden to raise. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I do wonder where this money went and whether these women survived and moved beyond prostitution.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have to say that I knew of Chinese men coming over to work on railroads but I don&amp;#039;t know how I missed Chinese women coming over primarily as prostitutes for these men (and white men).  I am definitely interested in knowing what these women&amp;#039;s lives were like, after their contracts were up.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are the owners/masters all women? Chinese women at that, unlike slavery, are the master and the servant are of the same race and background. First off, if majority of the Chinese that immigrated were men, where do these women come from, and how do they have power? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Xin Jin&amp;#039;s Contract, San Francisco, 1886==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;When reading the Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, I was surprised by how standard they are. All work for about four years, are paid no wages, and there is no interest on the money.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Furthermore, extended periods of sickness add a month to the service. What I thought was most surprising was that the Chinese prostitutes all are contracted with other Chinese people. I had assumed they would be contracted to American people. I wonder why some Chinese did well enough to contract prostitutes while others did poor enough to have to work as prostitutes. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I actually had a problem with the introduction to this article. It talks about women existing as prostitutes but does not acknowledge why these women were there as prostitutes. This was NOT like the prostitution of white society.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; First, there were laws prohibiting all asians, but particularly women (who to the whites were of NO use but sexuality). Secondly, It was forbidden for these asian men to fraternize with women who were not asian.  Their numbers were not as high as that of blacks in the south so disobeying this law was not common and was severely punishable.  The existence of prostitution had nothing to do with one being well-off enough to contract a woman to be a prositute, but had more do to with the fact that these women had to be brought in illegally due to American immigration laws and cost a lot of time and money to do so. It is not mentioned in the introduction to this paragraph and is put immediately after a document about white prostitutes and i feel this is in bad taste. The hardships of Asians in America even until the end of the 1900&amp;#039;s are not that easily comparable to the hardships of those who could &amp;quot;pass&amp;quot; as english. --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
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In reading the XIn Jin article what stood out is the fact that 28% of Chinese women were involved in prostitution during this period.  Even though this is a significant number it goes against the stereotype of early Chinese immigrants where its assumed that the minimal number of women who did live in the US where all there as prostitutes. It is my guess that the lives these woman were forced to live is what stands out when viewing chinese females in this region.  However, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found the experience to Xin Jin to be very similar to the women described in the New York Prostitutes reading where once again men are controlling the sexual lives of these women.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Forced into a life where sexual favors are their only means of survival helps to solidify to men and non immigrant women that these immigrant females were inferior in every way.  Is that negative stereotype still carried on to todays view of early Chinese immigration, where admittedly I even viewed the majority of these women, to be just prostitutes? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Did these women choose to come to America, or were they forced?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Was life in China really that bad? I don&amp;#039;t understand why they would put themselves through this when they don&amp;#039;t get any benefits from it. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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How sad that she was treated like an item or something you trade.  I was also wondering about what four loathsome disease&amp;#039;s she could get?  Also four and a half years for $524, I guess back then it was a lot of money and the restrictions she had on that loan must have been awful.  It also sound like to me that they didn&amp;#039;t treat the Chinese women very well and they had no other job skills so they could make their life better.  I wonder, like Ashley, did these women come forced or because they wanted to?-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Susan Shelby Magoffin in Santa Fe, 1846 ==&lt;br /&gt;
It strikes me as very strange that Magoffin refers to the noise of soldiers being &amp;quot;shocking to [her] delicate nerves.&amp;quot; (234) She&amp;#039;s described in the introduction to the Documents section as being a woman who traveled with her merchant husband out West; based on everything we know about the travel West, it was a dangerous, unforgiving trip--and one in which a person with &amp;quot;delicate nerves&amp;quot; would either toughen up or fall apart. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Clearly, Magoffin did not fall apart on the trip to NM, which begs the question: why didn&amp;#039;t she toughen up? Or was she in some way trying to regain the delicate sensibilities that women of the era were supposed to have?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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When I read this I compared the treatment of the Mexicans to that of the Blacks in the south during slavery. &amp;quot;...make them do it over, and over, and they continue in the same good humour, never mouthing and grumbling because they have too much to do, but remain perfectly submissive...&amp;quot; (234)&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It made me wonder why the Mexicans were more obedient and complying?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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I really enjoyed Susan Shelby Magoffin&amp;#039;s accounts of her life in Santa Fe. She seemed to be such a cheerful person especially compared to Mrs. A.M. Green in Colorado. To read her accounts of the Spanish Ball made me wish that I could have been there to see it all. I was confused a little by her description of &amp;quot;Dona Tula.&amp;quot; Who is this person and what exactly is her occupation? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Citizen protest of rape of Indian women in California, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about this primary document is how the notion of men being in constant search of sex is evolving. Instead of marking the Lieutenants acts of rape as manly and normal, citizens are instead standing up for these &amp;quot;squaws&amp;quot; and are arguing that he should be punished. Although this document still evidences to the prejudice against natives, there is a change in ideals of how men should treat all women and it makes me wonder if this change was drawn out or abrupt and what sparked the need for men&amp;#039;s ideals to change.-- Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I wonder what this says about the status of Native Americans in California at this time. Where did Native American women fit on the spectrum of &amp;quot;white women are pure and asexual, black women want sex all the time?&amp;quot; I guess they must have been closer to white women, in that it wasn&amp;#039;t considered okay for the Lieutenant to rape her. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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Katie, I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps because in California there weren&amp;#039;t that many black people, and the Chinese were an added element, the Native American population in California occupied a role that didn&amp;#039;t exist in the east. --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Zitkala-Sa Travels to the Land of the Big Red Apples, 1884 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Although Zitkala-Sa was (according to the introduction) legitimately traveling to a school, the fantasy world that was described to her (a place where she could have all the apples she wanted!--and no downsides?) by the &amp;quot;palefaces&amp;quot;--and the idea of a group of white men coming in, gathering up children, and taking them away after only minimally describing what their lives would be like, seemed extremely suspect to me. The whole idea of people coming in, rounding up children or women, feeding them lies or half-truths, and then removing them from their lives is uncomfortably similar to the lies the Chinese women who were later contracted out as prostitutes may have been told. Indeed, those sorts of situations are still used to trap victims for sex trafficking today. So, even if Zitkala-Sa went to school, became highly-educated, and returned to her family as a contributing member of Dakota society, the circumstances for her original removal from her family remain highly sketchy to me. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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I absolutely agree with Nicole. This story seemed really sad to me. As soon as the little girl got onto the horse drawn wagon, and she felt that sense of regret immediately, I couldn&amp;#039;t help but be sad because I knew how much she regretted her decision, especially when her mom was so uncomfortable with the decision. But, I wondered where they were going in &amp;quot;the east&amp;quot;? And what school they were really going to? Like Nicole said, it all looked very shady and suspect to me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
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As I was reading Big Red Apples, I found myself telling the little girl &amp;quot;no you don&amp;#039;t want to go with those men&amp;quot; knowing that she was either becoming enslaved or sold for sex.  Why didn&amp;#039;t these children listen to their parents? I guess because they were so young and impressionable it was easy to get the young kids to want to see the East and what kind of opportunities they were missing out on, when in all reality it was not somewhere they would want to end up.  The Mother in Big Red Apples knew that there was something suspicious going on, but also thought that her daughter was going to get an &amp;quot;education&amp;quot; and not knowing that this may be the last time she may see her daughter.-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
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This story was amazing to me because of how trusting these families were. Zitkala-Sa&amp;#039;s family is only one example, but their reaction was probably not uncommon. The mother had misgivings, but gave in under gentle pressure and allowed her daughter to leave with complete strangers to an unknown destination with no way to contact her child. Like Nicole said, this could easily have resulted in forced prostitution. Why did these families place so much trust in the missionaries? -- Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mrs. A. M. Greene, in Colorado Territory -- Frontier life – 1887 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so sad. They were talking about what their family was going through and the hardships they had to face like moving west away from everything that they had known into a land that they were not familiar with. While they choose to go through all of this, I still think that it was so sad! –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree Kayle, this was so sad.  Moving your family to unknown places without the comforts that you know and possibly your extended family nearby...it must have been heartbreaking!  The men went off to work, but the women were left, alone to adjust.  Her children being her support to get her through the days.  At least in this tale of A.M. Green it seems like she had a caring husband who was concerned with her well-being.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Violet Cragg requests an Army Pension, 1908 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This was so complicated to get a pension.  She had to know all of the information down to dates, people, time, places. I don’t think that I would have been able to keep all of that information straight and all she was trying to do was get money that she was mostly likely entitled to. It is sad that she had to put that much effort into getting something that she deserves. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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This is actually a very typical pension application, from what I&amp;#039;ve seen of them. I&amp;#039;ve done quite a bit of research with Civil War pension files in the National Archives, and all of them ask for documentation such as this. Hers does have more dates and personal information than the soldiers&amp;#039; pensions that I&amp;#039;ve worked with, but all of their files require similar documentation. They must prove when and where they enlisted, that they are unable to support themselves, and that their disability is directly connected to their service. There must be support from others that this is true, and that they are who they say they are. So, it makes sense that she would have to prove when and where she served as well. I think all pension files are this detailed.&lt;br /&gt;
I&amp;#039;ve also worked with pension claims filed by mothers and wives of soldiers, and they are all concerned, as the latter part of Violet Cragg&amp;#039;s, with proving the relationship between the claimant and the soldier. Many of these files contain marriage certificates and piles of affidavits verifying that the two were related and that the claimant relied on the soldier for support. I&amp;#039;ve never been lucky enough to find one which included a picture, as Violet Cragg offers to send, and I wonder whether a picture was ever sent and included in the file. &lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Kayle that it does seem harsh to place this huge burden of proof on a person who has served their country, but it also makes sense that the Pension Bureau would guard against fraud, and that they would need all this documentation in order to award pensions to people who had no other means of support. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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== New York Prostitutes by William Sanger, 1858==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;&amp;#039;When a woman drinks she is lost.&amp;#039; It will be conceded that the habit of intoxication in woman, if not an indication of actual depravity or vice, is a sure precursor of it, for drunkenness and debauchery are inspearable companions, one almost invariably following the other.&amp;quot; page 290. I choose this quote to exemplify this document for a couple of reasons. 1. it is actually funny to think about how alcohol was viewed as this causer of evil, not as though the person was evil and alcohol just allowed them to be evil. 2. Because it does not mention the debauchery of men while they drink and is only concerned with women&amp;#039;s behavior when the entire prohbition and temperance movement sprung out of woman&amp;#039;s desire for men to stop drinking away all of the family&amp;#039;s money, sleeping with prostitutes and beating there wives when drunk. 3. I think the sympathy which the doctor had to these prostitutes is remarkable for the time period in which it existed. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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This reading exemplifies the other side of the budding female independence that was taking shape during the rise of factories and cities.  With previous readings it appeared that by young women stepping outside of the home to work in factories was a viable way for them to financially support themselves until marriage.  Here the opposite of that is examined where women attempt to go out in the world but then struggle to survive and thus have to degrade themselves in order to live.  With almost every case the reasoning concludes with mans shortcomings as a provider and caretaker for the woman, demonstrating that this view of the independent factory girl was far from being economically stable.  Like Sara I found it unique that the doctor showed sympathy towards these girls, yet even with prostitution being a massive issue was there no one else in a position of authority who cared enough to try and help out?  Or was the stigma that existed in regards to immigrants standing in the way of &amp;quot;Christianly&amp;quot; behavior to save them?  -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Ever sympathetic, Dr. Sanger saw his subjects as victims of the harsh urban environment: of family disorganization or disintegration, and especially of low wages, underemployment, and poverty,&amp;quot; (page 288). Dr. Sanger obviously felt bad for these women, 88% of which were of the ages 15-30. I actually began to have sympathy for some of them as well. I hope those women didn&amp;#039;t want to be prostitutes, but it was so common that they felt as if it were their only option. Men in their lives died or abandoned them and they had nothing and needed to provide for their children; this was a quick way to make money (not saying I agree with it). I kept having to second guess my feelings of sympathy because I&amp;#039;m sure some of the ladies made their story seem worse than it really was so that she would receive sympathy rather than looks of disgust. So many questions ran through my mind as I read. Did the friends and family they did have know what they were doing? Why didn&amp;#039;t anyone try to stop them? What other options were there? --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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I was surprised to find that many of these women in this section were once married and deserted. For some reason, I had not considered that even back in the nineteenth century, prostitution was a productive way to support oneself. It is also unfortunate that, as Sanger said, these women were often victim to desertion or adultery by their husbands, and unfortunately felt as though they had to resort to prostitution. I also found it fascinating that in a time where the topic of sex was taboo, the &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; category made up one quarter of the causes of prostitution. That does not seem to fit into my schema of the time period. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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This excerpt reveals the sad state of prostitutes in the late nineteenth century. The negative effects of urban life drove many women, the majority of whom were immigrants, to the streets to support themselves and oftentimes their families (because of husbands who had died or had deserted them). I found the studies done by Dr. Sanger to be very interesting. I agree with Mary Beth: how interesting that &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; drew nearly the most number of responses when women were asked why they chose prostitution. Definitely an instance that defies the stereotype concerning sex and how it was discussed in society in the late nineteenth century. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought it was interesting that William Sanger spent much of his analysis on the “ill treatment of parents, relatives, or husbands” when “inclination” was much higher on the list. Perhaps Sanger felt that “inclination” was the choice of the women and thus was not worthy of explanation whereas, “ill-treatment of family” was a cause that could not be avoided and thus invokes pity. It is interesting to note the own biases in his writing. Although a sound document, do you think the biases in his work hinder the information being expressed? --Hannah W.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
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		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 11 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
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				<updated>2011-11-10T13:56:47Z</updated>
		
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&lt;div&gt;== Mary Anne Sadlier&amp;#039;s Bessy Conway ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Who was Sadlier?  Why did she write this?  What biases should we be watching out for?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&lt;br /&gt;
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For Irish families, such as the Conway&amp;#039;s, having a family member make the voyage to America was incredibly difficult. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;The likelihood of that family member returning to Ireland was very low.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Mary Ann Sadlier describes this sentiment vividly by saying her family &amp;quot;felt at the moment as if they had left Bessy in the churchyard clay,&amp;quot; likening Bessy&amp;#039;s voyage to America to being like her death. This separation was not easy for Bessy or other Irish women for that matter. Perhaps this is why when Bessy arrived in New York, her &amp;quot;comrade-girls&amp;quot; assured her they were happy to see her and kind to her. These women want to try and form bonds with each other since they are all in similar situations.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found the way Sadlier wrote out Irish accents was really interesting. At first I thought maybe she was caricaturing the immigrants by exaggerating their accents, but then I found out that she was Irish herself. I also thought the interactions she wrote between the Irish men discussing whether or not selling alcohol was okay seemed really honest. I would have assumed initially that this was written by a white woman trying to scold Irish girls on the dangers of alcohol and men and probably not holding a very high opinion of her readers; &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;After realizing the author had gone through experiences like this herself, I trusted the story she was telling a bit more.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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I was kind of amused by the accents, as well, and particularly the use of Irish language phrases, which she spells phonetically. Granted, Irish (Gaelic) is not easy for English speakers to read, so this makes sense, but she doesn&amp;#039;t translate them, either, which seems like it would be useless to most readers. I&amp;#039;m learning Irish, and the phrases are basic enough that I mostly knew what they meant, but I wonder how common that knowledge is, or whether the inclusion of foreign words is just meant to give a particular flavor to the dialogue. &lt;br /&gt;
On another subject, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;the beginning of the reading makes it very clear how unprepared immigrants could be for the realities of life in America.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The woman who plans to find her son is a perfect example of this, as she is unaware how far apart New York and Ohio are. It makes me think that culture shock must have been particularly bad for people who were arriving with so little idea of life in the US. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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What I found really interesting was how excited to everyone was to be leaving for America. It was one big adventure and everyone&amp;#039;s lives were going to be improved, or so they thought. But while i really felt that sense of adventure waiting for them I also kept thinking in my head of everything we have learned of in the past week, of the real conditions of these ships, the number of people that died and the harsh reality of being in a new country and not really being excepted. It made me think, were people really that excited to leave and go to America? And then, How could they not be? It was the land of opportunity. --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jannicke Saehle, 1847, Norwegian immigrant’s letters ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think one of the remarkable things about Saehle&amp;#039;s letter to her brother is that she has a strong faith. She even remarks that she wasn&amp;#039;t even scared on her journey to America and slept peacefully. Her high spirit and faith are really what keeps her going.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I wonder how many other women had as positive experience as her in their travels to America? Was she an exception?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree, she was incredibly optimistic. I almost think that this is an unrealistic representation of the experience of an young, single woman immigrant. I would be very surprised if every single immigrant felt that much ease when crossing the Atlantic, and I doubt that they would all be so optimistic about the work that they were doing.  I was also surprised with the Post Script, where she receives 3 acres of land. Was it common to give somebody doing domestic work land? --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, 1875-76 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about these bills of sale is how they reflect the situations these women were going through when they had to to be sold. While today a sum of $470, like in Mee Yung&amp;#039;s case (page 237) is laughable for four years of service today, we cannot know why or what the money paid for. Most likely this money went to paying for her passage over or to her destitute parents who desperately needed the money or thought her too much the burden to raise. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I do wonder where this money went and whether these women survived and moved beyond prostitution.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I have to say that I knew of Chinese men coming over to work on railroads but I don&amp;#039;t know how I missed Chinese women coming over primarily as prostitutes for these men (and white men).  I am definitely interested in knowing what these women&amp;#039;s lives were like, after their contracts were up.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why are the owners/masters all women? Chinese women at that, unlike slavery, are the master and the servant are of the same race and background. First off, if majority of the Chinese that immigrated were men, where do these women come from, and how do they have power? --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Susan Shelby Magoffin in Santa Fe, 1846 ==&lt;br /&gt;
It strikes me as very strange that Magoffin refers to the noise of soldiers being &amp;quot;shocking to [her] delicate nerves.&amp;quot; (234) She&amp;#039;s described in the introduction to the Documents section as being a woman who traveled with her merchant husband out West; based on everything we know about the travel West, it was a dangerous, unforgiving trip--and one in which a person with &amp;quot;delicate nerves&amp;quot; would either toughen up or fall apart. Clearly, Magoffin did not fall apart on the trip to NM, which begs the question: why didn&amp;#039;t she toughen up? Or was she in some way trying to regain the delicate sensibilities that women of the era were supposed to have? -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When I read this I compared the treatment of the Mexicans to that of the Blacks in the south during slavery. &amp;quot;...make them do it over, and over, and they continue in the same good humour, never mouthing and grumbling because they have too much to do, but remain perfectly submissive...&amp;quot; (234)It made me wonder why the Mexicans were more obedient and complying?  --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I really enjoyed Susan Shelby Magoffin&amp;#039;s accounts of her life in Santa Fe. She seemed to be such a cheerful person especially compared to Mrs. A.M. Green in Colorado. To read her accounts of the Spanish Ball made me wish that I could have been there to see it all. I was confused a little by her description of &amp;quot;Dona Tula.&amp;quot; Who is this person and what exactly is her occupation? --Jennifer S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Citizen protest of rape of Indian women in California, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
What I found interesting about this primary document is how the notion of men being in constant search of sex is evolving. Instead of marking the Lieutenants acts of rape as manly and normal, citizens are instead standing up for these &amp;quot;squaws&amp;quot; and are arguing that he should be punished. Although this document still evidences to the prejudice against natives, there is a change in ideals of how men should treat all women and it makes me wonder if this change was drawn out or abrupt and what sparked the need for men&amp;#039;s ideals to change.-- Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder what this says about the status of Native Americans in California at this time. Where did Native American women fit on the spectrum of &amp;quot;white women are pure and asexual, black women want sex all the time?&amp;quot; I guess they must have been closer to white women, in that it wasn&amp;#039;t considered okay for the Lieutenant to rape her. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Katie, I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps because in California there weren&amp;#039;t that many black people, and the Chinese were an added element, the Native American population in California occupied a role that didn&amp;#039;t exist in the east. --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Zitkala-Sa Travels to the Land of the Big Red Apples, 1884 ==&lt;br /&gt;
Although Zitkala-Sa was (according to the introduction) legitimately traveling to a school, the fantasy world that was described to her (a place where she could have all the apples she wanted!--and no downsides?) by the &amp;quot;palefaces&amp;quot;--and the idea of a group of white men coming in, gathering up children, and taking them away after only minimally describing what their lives would be like, seemed extremely suspect to me. The whole idea of people coming in, rounding up children or women, feeding them lies or half-truths, and then removing them from their lives is uncomfortably similar to the lies the Chinese women who were later contracted out as prostitutes may have been told. Indeed, those sorts of situations are still used to trap victims for sex trafficking today. So, even if Zitkala-Sa went to school, became highly-educated, and returned to her family as a contributing member of Dakota society, the circumstances for her original removal from her family remain highly sketchy to me. -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I absolutely agree with Nicole. This story seemed really sad to me. As soon as the little girl got onto the horse drawn wagon, and she felt that sense of regret immediately, I couldn&amp;#039;t help but be sad because I knew how much she regretted her decision, especially when her mom was so uncomfortable with the decision. But, I wondered where they were going in &amp;quot;the east&amp;quot;? And what school they were really going to? Like Nicole said, it all looked very shady and suspect to me. --Aqsa Z.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I was reading Big Red Apples, I found myself telling the little girl &amp;quot;no you don&amp;#039;t want to go with those men&amp;quot; knowing that she was either becoming enslaved or sold for sex.  Why didn&amp;#039;t these children listen to their parents? I guess because they were so young and impressionable it was easy to get the young kids to want to see the East and what kind of opportunities they were missing out on, when in all reality it was not somewhere they would want to end up.  The Mother in Big Red Apples knew that there was something suspicious going on, but also thought that her daughter was going to get an &amp;quot;education&amp;quot; and not knowing that this may be the last time she may see her daughter.-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This story was amazing to me because of how trusting these families were. Zitkala-Sa&amp;#039;s family is only one example, but their reaction was probably not uncommon. The mother had misgivings, but gave in under gentle pressure and allowed her daughter to leave with complete strangers to an unknown destination with no way to contact her child. Like Nicole said, this could easily have resulted in forced prostitution. Why did these families place so much trust in the missionaries? -- Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mrs. A. M. Greene, in Colorado Territory -- Frontier life – 1887 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This was so sad. They were talking about what their family was going through and the hardships they had to face like moving west away from everything that they had known into a land that they were not familiar with. While they choose to go through all of this, I still think that it was so sad! –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree Kayle, this was so sad.  Moving your family to unknown places without the comforts that you know and possibly your extended family nearby...it must have been heartbreaking!  The men went off to work, but the women were left, alone to adjust.  Her children being her support to get her through the days.  At least in this tale of A.M. Green it seems like she had a caring husband who was concerned with her well-being.  --Remy B.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Violet Cragg requests an Army Pension, 1908 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This was so complicated to get a pension.  She had to know all of the information down to dates, people, time, places. I don’t think that I would have been able to keep all of that information straight and all she was trying to do was get money that she was mostly likely entitled to. It is sad that she had to put that much effort into getting something that she deserves. –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is actually a very typical pension application, from what I&amp;#039;ve seen of them. I&amp;#039;ve done quite a bit of research with Civil War pension files in the National Archives, and all of them ask for documentation such as this. Hers does have more dates and personal information than the soldiers&amp;#039; pensions that I&amp;#039;ve worked with, but all of their files require similar documentation. They must prove when and where they enlisted, that they are unable to support themselves, and that their disability is directly connected to their service. There must be support from others that this is true, and that they are who they say they are. So, it makes sense that she would have to prove when and where she served as well. I think all pension files are this detailed.&lt;br /&gt;
I&amp;#039;ve also worked with pension claims filed by mothers and wives of soldiers, and they are all concerned, as the latter part of Violet Cragg&amp;#039;s, with proving the relationship between the claimant and the soldier. Many of these files contain marriage certificates and piles of affidavits verifying that the two were related and that the claimant relied on the soldier for support. I&amp;#039;ve never been lucky enough to find one which included a picture, as Violet Cragg offers to send, and I wonder whether a picture was ever sent and included in the file. &lt;br /&gt;
I agree with Kayle that it does seem harsh to place this huge burden of proof on a person who has served their country, but it also makes sense that the Pension Bureau would guard against fraud, and that they would need all this documentation in order to award pensions to people who had no other means of support. --Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Xin Jin&amp;#039;s Contract, San Francisco, 1886==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When reading the Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, I was surprised by how standard they are. All work for about four years, are paid no wages, and there is no interest on the money. Furthermore, extended periods of sickness add a month to the service. What I thought was most surprising was that the Chinese prostitutes all are contracted with other Chinese people. I had assumed they would be contracted to American people. I wonder why some Chinese did well enough to contract prostitutes while others did poor enough to have to work as prostitutes. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I actually had a problem with the introduction to this article. It talks about women existing as prostitutes but does not acknowledge why these women were there as prostitutes. This was NOT like the prostitution of white society. First, there were laws prohibiting all asians, but particularly women (who to the whites were of NO use but sexuality). Secondly, It was forbidden for these asian men to fraternize with women who were not asian.  Their numbers were not as high as that of blacks in the south so disobeying this law was not common and was severely punishable.  The existence of prostitution had nothing to do with one being well-off enough to contract a woman to be a prositute, but had more do to with the fact that these women had to be brought in illegally due to American immigration laws and cost a lot of time and money to do so. It is not mentioned in the introduction to this paragraph and is put immediately after a document about white prostitutes and i feel this is in bad taste. The hardships of Asians in America even until the end of the 1900&amp;#039;s are not that easily comparable to the hardships of those who could &amp;quot;pass&amp;quot; as english. --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In reading the XIn Jin article what stood out is the fact that 28% of Chinese women were involved in prostitution during this period.  Even though this is a significant number it goes against the stereotype of early Chinese immigrants where its assumed that the minimal number of women who did live in the US where all there as prostitutes. It is my guess that the lives these woman were forced to live is what stands out when viewing chinese females in this region.  However, I found the experience to Xin Jin to be very similar to the women described in the New York Prostitutes reading where once again men are controlling the sexual lives of these women.  Forced into a life where sexual favors are their only means of survival helps to solidify to men and non immigrant women that these immigrant females were inferior in every way.  Is that negative stereotype still carried on to todays view of early Chinese immigration, where admittedly I even viewed the majority of these women, to be just prostitutes? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Did these women choose to come to America, or were they forced? Was life in China really that bad? I don&amp;#039;t understand why they would put themselves through this when they don&amp;#039;t get any benefits from it. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How sad that she was treated like an item or something you trade.  I was also wondering about what four loathsome disease&amp;#039;s she could get?  Also four and a half years for $524, I guess back then it was a lot of money and the restrictions she had on that loan must have been awful.  It also sound like to me that they didn&amp;#039;t treat the Chinese women very well and they had no other job skills so they could make their life better.  I wonder, like Ashley, did these women come forced or because they wanted to?-- Pam P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New York Prositutes by William Sanger, 1858==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;&amp;#039;When a woman drinks she is lost.&amp;#039; It will be conceded that the habit of intoxication in woman, if not an indication of actual depravity or vice, is a sure precursor of it, for drunkenness and debauchery are inspearable companions, one almost invariably following the other.&amp;quot; page 290. I choose this quote to exemplify this document for a couple of reasons. 1. it is actually funny to think about how alcohol was viewed as this causer of evil, not as though the person was evil and alcohol just allowed them to be evil. 2. Because it does not mention the debauchery of men while they drink and is only concerned with women&amp;#039;s behavior when the entire prohbition and temperance movement sprung out of woman&amp;#039;s desire for men to stop drinking away all of the family&amp;#039;s money, sleeping with prostitutes and beating there wives when drunk. 3. I think the sympathy which the doctor had to these prostitutes is remarkable for the time period in which it existed. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This reading exemplifies the other side of the budding female independence that was taking shape during the rise of factories and cities.  With previous readings it appeared that by young women stepping outside of the home to work in factories was a viable way for them to financially support themselves until marriage.  Here the opposite of that is examined where women attempt to go out in the world but then struggle to survive and thus have to degrade themselves in order to live.  With almost every case the reasoning concludes with mans shortcomings as a provider and caretaker for the woman, demonstrating that this view of the independent factory girl was far from being economically stable.  Like Sara I found it unique that the doctor showed sympathy towards these girls, yet even with prostitution being a massive issue was there no one else in a position of authority who cared enough to try and help out?  Or was the stigma that existed in regards to immigrants standing in the way of &amp;quot;Christianly&amp;quot; behavior to save them?  -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Ever sympathetic, Dr. Sanger saw his subjects as victims of the harsh urban environment: of family disorganization or disintegration, and especially of low wages, underemployment, and poverty,&amp;quot; (page 288). Dr. Sanger obviously felt bad for these women, 88% of which were of the ages 15-30. I actually began to have sympathy for some of them as well. I hope those women didn&amp;#039;t want to be prostitutes, but it was so common that they felt as if it were their only option. Men in their lives died or abandoned them and they had nothing and needed to provide for their children; this was a quick way to make money (not saying I agree with it). I kept having to second guess my feelings of sympathy because I&amp;#039;m sure some of the ladies made their story seem worse than it really was so that she would receive sympathy rather than looks of disgust. So many questions ran through my mind as I read. Did the friends and family they did have know what they were doing? Why didn&amp;#039;t anyone try to stop them? What other options were there? --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was surprised to find that many of these women in this section were once married and deserted. For some reason, I had not considered that even back in the nineteenth century, prostitution was a productive way to support oneself. It is also unfortunate that, as Sanger said, these women were often victim to desertion or adultery by their husbands, and unfortunately felt as though they had to resort to prostitution. I also found it fascinating that in a time where the topic of sex was taboo, the &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; category made up one quarter of the causes of prostitution. That does not seem to fit into my schema of the time period. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This excerpt reveals the sad state of prostitutes in the late nineteenth century. The negative effects of urban life drove many women, the majority of whom were immigrants, to the streets to support themselves and oftentimes their families (because of husbands who had died or had deserted them). I found the studies done by Dr. Sanger to be very interesting. I agree with Mary Beth: how interesting that &amp;quot;inclination&amp;quot; drew nearly the most number of responses when women were asked why they chose prostitution. Definitely an instance that defies the stereotype concerning sex and how it was discussed in society in the late nineteenth century. --Ellen S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thought it was interesting that William Sanger spent much of his analysis on the “ill treatment of parents, relatives, or husbands” when “inclination” was much higher on the list. Perhaps Sanger felt that “inclination” was the choice of the women and thus was not worthy of explanation whereas, “ill-treatment of family” was a cause that could not be avoided and thus invokes pity. It is interesting to note the own biases in his writing. Although a sound document, do you think the biases in his work hinder the information being expressed? --Hannah W.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 11 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-09T13:46:21Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt; &lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Anne Sadlier&amp;#039;s Bessy Conway ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Irish families, such as the Conway&amp;#039;s, having a family member make the voyage to America was incredibly difficult. The likelihood of that family member returning to Ireland was very low. Mary Ann Sadlier describes this sentiment vividly by saying her family &amp;quot;felt at the moment as if they had left Bessy in the churchyard clay,&amp;quot; likening Bessy&amp;#039;s voyage to America to being like her death. This separation was not easy for Bessy or other Irish women for that matter. Perhaps this is why when Bessy arrived in New York, her &amp;quot;comrade-girls&amp;quot; assured her they were happy to see her and kind to her. These women want to try and form bonds with each other since they are all in similar situations. -- Clare O. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Jannicke Saehle, 1847, Norwegian immigrant’s letters ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, 1875-76 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Susan Shelby Magoffin in Santa Fe, 1846 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Citizen protest of rape of Indian women in California, 1862 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Zitkala-Sa Travels to the Land of the Big Red Apples, 1884 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mrs. A. M. Greene, in Colorado Territory -- Frontier life – 1887 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Violet Cragg requests an Army Pension, 1908 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Xin Jin&amp;#039;s Contract, San Francisco, 1886==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When reading the Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, I was surprised by how standard they are. All work for about four years, are paid no wages, and there is no interest on the money. Furthermore, extended periods of sickness add a month to the service. What I thought was most surprising was that the Chinese prostitutes all are contracted with other Chinese people. I had assumed they would be contracted to American people. I wonder why some Chinese did well enough to contract prostitutes while others did poor enough to have to work as prostitutes. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I actually had a problem with the introduction to this article. It talks about women existing as prostitutes but does not acknowledge why these women were there as prostitutes. This was NOT like the prostitution of white society. First, there were laws prohibiting all asians, but particularly women (who to the whites were of NO use but sexuality). Secondly, It was forbidden for these asian men to fraternize with women who were not asian.  Their numbers were not as high as that of blacks in the south so disobeying this law was not common and was severely punishable.  The existence of prostitution had nothing to do with one being well-off enough to contract a woman to be a prositute, but had more do to with the fact that these women had to be brought in illegally due to American immigration laws and cost a lot of time and money to do so. It is not mentioned in the introduction to this paragraph and is put immediately after a document about white prostitutes and i feel this is in bad taste. The hardships of Asians in America even until the end of the 1900&amp;#039;s are not that easily comparable to the hardships of those who could &amp;quot;pass&amp;quot; as english. --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In reading the XIn Jin article what stood out is the fact that 28% of Chinese women were involved in prostitution during this period.  Even though this is a significant number it goes against the stereotype of early Chinese immigrants where its assumed that the minimal number of women who did live in the US where all there as prostitutes. It is my guess that the lives these woman were forced to live is what stands out when viewing chinese females in this region.  However, I found the experience to Xin Jin to be very similar to the women described in the New York Prostitutes reading where once again men are controlling the sexual lives of these women.  Forced into a life where sexual favors are their only means of survival helps to solidify to men and non immigrant women that these immigrant females were inferior in every way.  Is that negative stereotype still carried on to todays view of early Chinese immigration, where admittedly I even viewed the majority of these women, to be just prostitutes? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New York Prositutes by William Sanger, 1858==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;&amp;#039;When a woman drinks she is lost.&amp;#039; It will be conceded that the habit of intoxication in woman, if not an indication of actual depravity or vice, is a sure precursor of it, for drunkenness and debauchery are inspearable companions, one almost invariably following the other.&amp;quot; page 290. I choose this quote to exemplify this document for a couple of reasons. 1. it is actually funny to think about how alcohol was viewed as this causer of evil, not as though the person was evil and alcohol just allowed them to be evil. 2. Because it does not mention the debauchery of men while they drink and is only concerned with women&amp;#039;s behavior when the entire prohbition and temperance movement sprung out of woman&amp;#039;s desire for men to stop drinking away all of the family&amp;#039;s money, sleeping with prostitutes and beating there wives when drunk. 3. I think the sympathy which the doctor had to these prostitutes is remarkable for the time period in which it existed. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This reading exemplifies the other side of the budding female independence that was taking shape during the rise of factories and cities.  With previous readings it appeared that by young women stepping outside of the home to work in factories was a viable way for them to financially support themselves until marriage.  Here the opposite of that is examined where women attempt to go out in the world but then struggle to survive and thus have to degrade themselves in order to live.  With almost every case the reasoning concludes with mans shortcomings as a provider and caretaker for the woman, demonstrating that this view of the independent factory girl was far from being economically stable.  Like Sara I found it unique that the doctor showed sympathy towards these girls, yet even with prostitution being a massive issue was there no one else in a position of authority who cared enough to try and help out?  Or was the stigma that existed in regards to immigrants standing in the way of &amp;quot;Christianly&amp;quot; behavior to save them?  -- Rachel T.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 11 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_11_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-09T13:41:46Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;1 Mary Anne Sadlier&amp;#039;s Bessy Conway&lt;br /&gt;
2 Jannicke Saehle, 1847, Norwegian immigrant’s letters&lt;br /&gt;
3 William Sanger, New York Prostitutes, 1858&lt;br /&gt;
4 Xin Jin&amp;#039;s Contract, 1886&lt;br /&gt;
5 Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, 1875-76&lt;br /&gt;
6 Susan Shelby Magoffin in Santa Fe, 1846&lt;br /&gt;
7 Citizen protest of rape of Indian women in California, 1862&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Zitkala-Sa Travels to the Land of the Big Red Apples, 1884 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mrs. A. M. Greene, in Colorado Territory -- Frontier life – 1887 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Violet Cragg requests an Army Pension, 1908 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For Irish families, such as the Conway&amp;#039;s, having a family member make the voyage to America was incredibly difficult. The likelihood of that family member returning to Ireland was very low. Mary Ann Sadlier describes this sentiment vividly by saying her family &amp;quot;felt at the moment as if they had left Bessy in the churchyard clay,&amp;quot; likening Bessy&amp;#039;s voyage to America to being like her death. This separation was not easy for Bessy or other Irish women for that matter. Perhaps this is why when Bessy arrived in New York, her &amp;quot;comrade-girls&amp;quot; assured her they were happy to see her and kind to her. These women want to try and form bonds with each other since they are all in similar situations. -- Clare O. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Xin Jin&amp;#039;s Contract, San Francisco, 1886==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When reading the Bills of Sale of Chinese Prostitutes, I was surprised by how standard they are. All work for about four years, are paid no wages, and there is no interest on the money. Furthermore, extended periods of sickness add a month to the service. What I thought was most surprising was that the Chinese prostitutes all are contracted with other Chinese people. I had assumed they would be contracted to American people. I wonder why some Chinese did well enough to contract prostitutes while others did poor enough to have to work as prostitutes. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I actually had a problem with the introduction to this article. It talks about women existing as prostitutes but does not acknowledge why these women were there as prostitutes. This was NOT like the prostitution of white society. First, there were laws prohibiting all asians, but particularly women (who to the whites were of NO use but sexuality). Secondly, It was forbidden for these asian men to fraternize with women who were not asian.  Their numbers were not as high as that of blacks in the south so disobeying this law was not common and was severely punishable.  The existence of prostitution had nothing to do with one being well-off enough to contract a woman to be a prositute, but had more do to with the fact that these women had to be brought in illegally due to American immigration laws and cost a lot of time and money to do so. It is not mentioned in the introduction to this paragraph and is put immediately after a document about white prostitutes and i feel this is in bad taste. The hardships of Asians in America even until the end of the 1900&amp;#039;s are not that easily comparable to the hardships of those who could &amp;quot;pass&amp;quot; as english. --Sara S&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In reading the XIn Jin article what stood out is the fact that 28% of Chinese women were involved in prostitution during this period.  Even though this is a significant number it goes against the stereotype of early Chinese immigrants where its assumed that the minimal number of women who did live in the US where all there as prostitutes. It is my guess that the lives these woman were forced to live is what stands out when viewing chinese females in this region.  However, I found the experience to Xin Jin to be very similar to the women described in the New York Prostitutes reading where once again men are controlling the sexual lives of these women.  Forced into a life where sexual favors are their only means of survival helps to solidify to men and non immigrant women that these immigrant females were inferior in every way.  Is that negative stereotype still carried on to todays view of early Chinese immigration, where admittedly I even viewed the majority of these women, to be just prostitutes? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New York Prositutes by William Sanger, 1858==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;&amp;#039;When a woman drinks she is lost.&amp;#039; It will be conceded that the habit of intoxication in woman, if not an indication of actual depravity or vice, is a sure precursor of it, for drunkenness and debauchery are inspearable companions, one almost invariably following the other.&amp;quot; page 290. I choose this quote to exemplify this document for a couple of reasons. 1. it is actually funny to think about how alcohol was viewed as this causer of evil, not as though the person was evil and alcohol just allowed them to be evil. 2. Because it does not mention the debauchery of men while they drink and is only concerned with women&amp;#039;s behavior when the entire prohbition and temperance movement sprung out of woman&amp;#039;s desire for men to stop drinking away all of the family&amp;#039;s money, sleeping with prostitutes and beating there wives when drunk. 3. I think the sympathy which the doctor had to these prostitutes is remarkable for the time period in which it existed. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This reading exemplifies the other side of the budding female independence that was taking shape during the rise of factories and cities.  With previous readings it appeared that by young women stepping outside of the home to work in factories was a viable way for them to financially support themselves until marriage.  Here the opposite of that is examined where women attempt to go out in the world but then struggle to survive and thus have to degrade themselves in order to live.  With almost every case the reasoning concludes with mans shortcomings as a provider and caretaker for the woman, demonstrating that this view of the independent factory girl was far from being economically stable.  Like Sara I found it unique that the doctor showed sympathy towards these girls, yet even with prostitution being a massive issue was there no one else in a position of authority who cared enough to try and help out?  Or was the stigma that existed in regards to immigrants standing in the way of &amp;quot;Christianly&amp;quot; behavior to save them?  -- Rachel T.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_10_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 10 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_10_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-11-02T13:40:23Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Haynesworth Gayle, “An Alabama Diary,” 1828, 1833 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Boykin Chestnut’s diary, 1861 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is an important source because it shows a woman who is part of a large slave-holding family realizing the atrocity of the slave system. One particularly important realization is that &amp;quot;Men and women are punished when their masters and mistresses are brutes and not when they do wrong...&amp;quot; This notion is related to that of &amp;quot;The Cruel Mistress,&amp;quot; in which the mistress would punish at her own whim regardless of whether the slaves had erred. Regardless of this insight, Chesnut still closes with &amp;quot;my countrywomen are as pure as angels - tho surrounded by another race who are -- the social evil!&amp;quot; It seems that Chesnut believes the institution of slavery is wrong but not the idea of racism. --Clare O. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rose Williams’s Story in the Federal Writers’ Project Interviews, 1941. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lucinda, a free woman, requests reenslavement, 1813 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Connecticut woman asks other free black women to sign anti-slavery petitions, 1839 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Still, black abolitionist, along with other Philadelphia free women, forms “Female Publication Society” to promote the moral uplift of free and slave African Americans, 1861 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mrs. Virginia Hayes Shepherd’s memories, 1937 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Thelma Jennings, “Sexual Exploitation of African American Slave Women,” 1990 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== &amp;quot;A Reply to Harriet Beecher Stowe&amp;quot; Louisa S. Cheeves McCord, 1853  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thought this document was enlightening and so interesting. True, she was writing things that by today&amp;#039;s standards are offensive and politically incorrect, but this is what primary sources offer to us, someone who isn&amp;#039;t ashamed to admit their beliefs. I want to offer a quote from the reading &amp;quot;To Conclude. We have undertaken the defence of slavery in no temporizing vein. We do NOT say it is a necessary evil. We do NOT allow that it is a temporary make-shift to choke the course of Providence for man&amp;#039;s convenience. It is NOT &amp;#039;a sorrow and a wrong to be lived down.&amp;#039; We proclaim it, on the contrary, a Godlike dispensation, a providential caring for the weak, and a refuge for the portionless.&amp;quot; (page 219).   Understanding this statement helps one understand the entire patriarchal society. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Angelina Grimke Weld &amp;#039;&amp;#039;The Cruel Mistress&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- 1839 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this source we hear the horrid stories of slavery. However, it is different because it does not focus on the oppressive white male but on the mistress. It is interesting to see the fault in white women. Also, it is interesting that Weld pushes on the physically abuse. She has to argue that most slave owners act like this cruel mistress. Even though she hints at slaves with souls, she focuses on the physically abuse. Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think it is important that Angelina Grimke Weld continually emphasizes the the cruel mistress in question is &amp;quot;at the head of the fashionable elite city of Charleston&amp;quot; and more importantly &amp;quot;at the head of the moral and religious female society there.&amp;quot; It is astounding that someone who claims to be of moral and pious authority can be so abusive and uncaring. However, the violence against the slaves is justified by slaveholders because slaves are viewed as property and not actual human beings. -- Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Going off of what Clare wrote I have to point at that even Grimke ackonledges the belief that &amp;quot;God in his providence had set over them--it was their DUTY to abide in abject submission, and hers to COMPEL them to do so--IT WAS THUS THAT SHE REASONED&amp;quot; (page 216. the Capitalization is in place of italics). This wasn&amp;#039;t about cruelty to the woman mistresses, rather a belief that the slave was not a human being (mentioned at the end of the document). i also have to wonder to what extent the women mistresses were so violent and cruel had to do with an inadvert expression of their distaste for their own oppression. The slaves offerred them power so they took full advantage of it. --Sara S.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_9_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 9 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_9_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-10-26T03:23:18Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;FOR THIS WEEK POST TWO QUESTIONS BY THURSDAY AND CHECK BACK TO RESPOND TO TWO QUESTIONS BY SATURDAY.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== General Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was surprised (although I shouldn&amp;#039;t really have been) at the number of these documents which refer to religion as important to their daily lives: from the lowell girls&amp;#039; rules enforcing religious practice to the teachers in the American west to the women on the gold mines everyone was obsessed with the sanctity of their own religion and the lack of religion in their society.  Were these women simply becoming teachers to help those less fortunate than them or were they really seeking an attempt at missionary work of people they truly believed to be spiritually beneath them.  Although the outcome of their work would still be the same, it would be important to know the background for which their work was done for it would tell more about the woman doing the work. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Emma Willard, “Matrimonial Risks,” 1815 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Willard is concerned with the happiness of marriage. She warns her sister not to get her hopes up, when it comes to her suitor Mr. L because he might be disappointing. I wonder if this is a change to &amp;quot;companionate marriages.&amp;quot; Willard sees or wants marriage to be happy, but realizes that marriage could be miserable. Since Willard knows that men can fail at companionate marriages, does that mean the idea of marriage changing? Do women feel they have a choice? --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Caroline Gilman, “The Deferential Wife,” 1838 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I liked in &amp;#039;&amp;#039;The Deferential Wife&amp;#039;&amp;#039; by Caroline Gilman the quote &amp;quot;Men are not often unreasonable; their difficulties lie in not understanding the moral and physcial structure of our sex. They often wound through ignorance and are surprised at having offended. How clear is it, then, that woman loses by petulance and recrimination! Her first study must be self-control, almost to hypocrisy.  A good wife must smile amid a thousand perplexities, and clear her voice to tones of cheerfulness when her frames is drooping with disease, or else languish alone. Man on the contrary, when trials beset him, expects to find her ear and heart a ready receptacle.&amp;quot; (page 147) Basically this is the formation of the idea that woman is reponsible for the morality and self-control of the man.  It is from this ideologue (which did develop concurrently with Republican Motherhood) that the arguments today about the dress and style of women are based upon.  It is interesting to see it in its&amp;#039; original context in The Deferential Wife. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Catharine Beecher, “System and Order,” 1841 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Beecher&amp;#039;s believes that motherhood/domesticity is the greatest occupation for humanity. She believes that it will create a heaven on earth or a perfect society. This statement brings a true meaning to motherhood and housework. People are happier when they have meaning to their lives. Her belief gives women so much more to live for (not saying it is right or wrong). However, with all ideals, her advice must have stressed most women in case they failed. --- Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Catharine Sedgwick, “First to None,” 1828 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Connell Ayer, “The Widowed State,” 1832-33 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Eliza Ann Mulford, “Rules of the School,” 1814 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Emma Willard, “A Rationale for Female Education,” 1819 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Miss Burnham’s Report, “A Choctaw Mission School,” 1824 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters from Teachers, “Reports on Western Schools,” 1847 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rules of the Mill from Lowell and Lancaster, 1820-1840 ==&lt;br /&gt;
How extensive rules for living in a mill community seem to be very personally invasive for a job. The rules that were applied to the boarders seems equivalent to life under a male figurehead through parental controls or marriage. Mandating when the workers had to be in bed to forcing their attendance in church molded these women into the ideals of the mill managers as well as into the evolving perception of female work roles.  What I found to be the most interesting point was that it was more socially acceptable for women to be single longer and have jobs of their own yet it appears that the women who worked in the mill only fell back into patriarchal relationships that these new forms of female freedom seem to oppose.  Could it be that women were so eager to embrace the world of employment and financial independence that they were willing to fit into the mold instilled by the mill? Or could it had been from the women workers being attracted into a world that was very familiar to them? -- Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harriet Farley, “A Letter from Lowell,” 1844 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Voice of Industry, “A Spirit of Protest,” 1846 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Amelia Stewart Knight, “Crossing the Plains,” 1853 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Ballou, “A Woman’s View of the Gold Rush,” 1852 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Petitions of the Cherokee Women’s Council on Removal, 1817, 1818 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Winnemucca, “Life Among the Paiutes,” 1883 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A Sioux Tale, “A Woman Kills Her Daughter” ==&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_9_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 9 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_9_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-10-24T19:36:05Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
== General Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was surprised (although I shouldn&amp;#039;t really have been) at the number of these documents which refer to religion as important to their daily lives: from the lowell girls&amp;#039; rules enforcing religious practice to the teachers in the American west to the women on the gold mines everyone was obsessed with the sanctity of their own religion and the lack of religion in their society.  Were these women simply becoming teachers to help those less fortunate than them or were they really seeking an attempt at missionary work of people they truly believed to be spiritually beneath them.  Although the outcome of their work would still be the same, it would be important to know the background for which their work was done for it would tell more about the woman doing the work. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Emma Willard, “Matrimonial Risks,” 1815 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Caroline Gilman, “The Deferential Wife,” 1838 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I liked in &amp;#039;&amp;#039;The Deferential Wife&amp;#039;&amp;#039; by Caroline Gilman the quote &amp;quot;Men are not often unreasonable; their difficulties lie in not understanding the moral and physcial structure of our sex. They often wound through ignorance and are surprised at having offended. How clear is it, then, that woman loses by petulance and recrimination! Her first study must be self-control, almost to hypocrisy.  A good wife must smile amid a thousand perplexities, and clear her voice to tones of cheerfulness when her frames is drooping with disease, or else languish alone. Man on the contrary, when trials beset him, expects to find her ear and heart a ready receptacle.&amp;quot; (page 147) Basically this is the formation of the idea that woman is reponsible for the morality and self-control of the man.  It is from this ideologue (which did develop concurrently with Republican Motherhood) that the arguments today about the dress and style of women are based upon.  It is interesting to see it in its&amp;#039; original context in The Deferential Wife. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Catharine Beecher, “System and Order,” 1841 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Catharine Sedgwick, “First to None,” 1828 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Connell Ayer, “The Widowed State,” 1832-33 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Eliza Ann Mulford, “Rules of the School,” 1814 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Emma Willard, “A Rationale for Female Education,” 1819 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Miss Burnham’s Report, “A Choctaw Mission School,” 1824 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Letters from Teachers, “Reports on Western Schools,” 1847 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rules of the Mill from Lowell and Lancaster, 1820-1840 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Harriet Farley, “A Letter from Lowell,” 1844 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Voice of Industry, “A Spirit of Protest,” 1846 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Amelia Stewart Knight, “Crossing the Plains,” 1853 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mary Ballou, “A Woman’s View of the Gold Rush,” 1852 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Petitions of the Cherokee Women’s Council on Removal, 1817, 1818 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sarah Winnemucca, “Life Among the Paiutes,” 1883 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== A Sioux Tale, “A Woman Kills Her Daughter” ==&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011</id>
		<title>HIST 327-2011</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011"/>
				<updated>2011-10-24T19:32:22Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[HIST327_11 Questions]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Syllabus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Topics/collections already approved -- Remember that only one person can work on a given topic/person. [Don&amp;#039;t add your own topic here. I&amp;#039;ll add the topic after I&amp;#039;ve approved it. -- Dr. M]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clare -- Kate Dunlap Diary (online project) &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pam -- Judith Sargent Murray writings &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Grace -- Mercy Otis Warren&amp;#039;s writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sara -- Angelina Grimke&amp;#039;s letters/speeches &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Katie -- Frances Willard&amp;#039;s Diaries&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kayle -- Catherine Beecher&amp;#039;s materials&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Lydia Maria Child&amp;#039;s American Frugal Housewife &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rebecca -- Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s Hospital Sketches, My Contraband, and other writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matt -- Annie Denton Cridge&amp;#039;s Man&amp;#039;s Rights&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jennifer -- Women in CW Wisconsin (via several primary sources)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Catherine K.-- Belle Edmondson&amp;#039;s diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ellen -- Eliza Wilkinson&amp;#039;s letters in the Revolutionary War&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mary Beth -- Rose O&amp;#039;Neal Greenhow&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Emma -- Abigail Adams&amp;#039;s letters with John from a single year&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aqsa--Emma Florence LeConte diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Remy -- Catherine Sedgwick&amp;#039;s letters&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nicole -- (Anna Holstein)&amp;#039;s memoir Three Years in Field Hospitals of the Army of the Potomac&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Stef -- Documents related to Prudence Crandall &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Michelle -- African American slave narrative&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ashley -- Memoirs of Mrs. Abigail Bailey&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussion:&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Ballard Diary?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rachel T. -- Margaret Fuller&amp;#039;s writings??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hannah -- Maria Mitchell&amp;#039;s papers?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011</id>
		<title>HIST 327-2011</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011"/>
				<updated>2011-10-21T20:11:08Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[HIST327_11 Questions]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Syllabus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Topics/collections already approved -- Remember that only one person can work on a given topic/person. [Don&amp;#039;t add your own topic here. I&amp;#039;ll add the topic after I&amp;#039;ve approved it. -- Dr. M]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clare -- Kate Dunlap Diary (online project) &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pam -- Judith Sargent Murray writings &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Grace -- Mercy Otis Warren&amp;#039;s writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sara -- Angelina Grimke&amp;#039;s letters/speeches &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Katie -- Frances Willard&amp;#039;s Diaries&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kayle -- Catherine Beecher&amp;#039;s materials&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Lydia Maria Child&amp;#039;s American Frugal Housewife &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rebecca -- Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s Hospital Sketches, My Contraband, and other writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matt -- Annie Denton Cridge&amp;#039;s Man&amp;#039;s Rights&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jennifer -- Women in CW Wisconsin (via several primary sources)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Catherine K.-- Belle Edmondson&amp;#039;s diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ellen -- Eliza Wilkinson&amp;#039;s letters in the Revolutionary War&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mary Beth -- Rose O&amp;#039;Neal Greenhow&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Emma -- Abigail Adams&amp;#039;s letters with John from a single year&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aqsa--Emma Florence LeConte diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Remy -- Catherine Sedgwick&amp;#039;s letters&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nicole -- (Anna Holstein)&amp;#039;s memoir Three Years in Field Hospitals of the Army of the Potomac&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Stef -- Documents related to Prudence Crandall &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Michelle -- African American slave narrative&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussion:&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Ballard Diary?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ashley -- Phillis Wheatley???&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rachel T. -- Margaret Fuller&amp;#039;s writings??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hannah -- Maria Mitchell&amp;#039;s papers?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_8_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 8 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_8_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-10-20T15:10:24Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Overarching Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In many of the readings, I was surprised to read that women tended to leave possessions in unequal amounts to their heirs whereas men tended to split up what was theirs equally&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. I would have assumed that men would favor their sons over their daughters, but they tended to leave their offspring relatively equal shares (although in the form of land for sons and movable things for daughters). It is interesting that women favored their daughters in wills. Perhaps this is because women did not have many rights of ownership so the women wanted to aid their female relatives in any way possible. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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I really found it interesting that even though women had very little power during the time periods of the readings, they seemed to enjoy the power they had with the wills. I think it says something that women left their posessions to their daughters (mostly). Did sons even have a fighting chance? --Catherine K.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Antenuptial contract, Mass, 1653 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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== New England Divorce, CT, 1655-1678; MD, 1680 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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When reading the divorce laws of Connecticut, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I expected the reasons for granting of divorces to be things such as adultery or desertion. What I did not expect was the long periods of time a spouse has to be away before the law considers the absence desertion.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Three years with a total neglect of duty or seven years of providential absence seems like an extremely long amount of time, particularly for the wife being deserted. Especially since the woman cannot get married to another before the period is up and the divorce is granted, likely leaving the woman in very poor economical standing. In the case of Bridget Baxter, after the divorce was granted, the court allowed her to sell her husbands estate to pay off debts but I can imagine this would not be enough in the case of many women, especially if they were becoming indebted for the years their husbands were gone. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the divorce laws, I was surprised at how much they made marriage sound like slavery. The laws included words like &amp;quot;sett her free from her said husband,&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;be free from her conjugall bonds.&amp;quot; Even in the case of Robert Wade, the law said that he was &amp;quot;free from Joanne Wade.&amp;quot; At first I thought that it was a negative portrayal of marriage, but I have reconsidered the possibility that they mean &amp;quot;bonds&amp;quot; in the best way, as marriage was a bond between people.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I read the New England Divorce notices and was really surprised and appalled by the 1662 &amp;quot;whereas the estate that her husband Baxter left with her is sold to pay debts, all excepting a bed and her wearing aparell&amp;quot; meaning they took EVERYTHING BUT THE SHIRT OFF HER BACK.  I thought this was just an expression, but apparently it was not.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;So strange that they would be so harsh to a woman when the debt was her husbands and not her owns.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it ironic that women in New England were the only ones permitted a full divorce as compared to the rest of the colonies.  Even though the women were granted divorces on very valid reasons it seems contradictory to the other laws would allow for severe punishments for premarital sex or coming to church dirty. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; How is it a woman could exercise enough power to end a marriage but could be reprimanded for offenses that seem trivial to divorce?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; For a relationship that was based in the church it seems that it should be much harder to break it and especially by the woman who was viewed as morally and spiritually weaker than her husband.  --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
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I thought the most interesting part of this section was the case of Elizabeth Griswould. It was ten years between the initial trial and the trial for child support. The court seemed to be especially sympathetic towards Elizabeth. Their sympathy appears to be based upon the fact that her ex-husband, John Rogers, spoke against religion during the first trial. The court is so sympathetic that they make sure that Rogers can pay his child support and require that he give Elizabeth his piece of land if he cannot pay the twenty pound sum. -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Why were these men deserting these women?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  I see some men just couldn’t live with their wives and some were out at sea (vessel or company?).  I guess some men could have also gone hunting and went missing during their trips, but how come there were so many women without husbands who disappeared without a trace?  “In the eighteenth century, deserted wives continued to predominate among the colony’s divorce petitioners, but the number of husbands complaining of desertion increased as did the numbers of wives who cited adultery in their petitions.”(Woloch, 72)  Most women who went for these divorces did not know where their husbands could have gone or their said husbands admitted to committing adultery.-- Pam Petzold&lt;br /&gt;
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I wondered how common divorce cases were, there are quite a few in the readings but how many more were there? Did women wait to file for divorce until they found another man willing to marry them I wonder? -- Emma C.&lt;br /&gt;
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After reading The Tennison Decision I was rather pleased with what the courts decision was.  Here was a man who admitted that yes he&amp;#039;d take his wife back home but could not love her.  How embarrassing would that have been to a woman (from any time period)??  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;If this was just a separation,did Elizabeth have to wait for John to die before moving on with her life?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Remy B. &lt;br /&gt;
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== SC feme sole trader acts, 1712, 1744 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was really surprised by the Feme Sole Trader Acts in South Carolina.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women still had to have permission from their hubsands to be labeled as Feme Sole, but once they got that label they were free to do as they wished as far as their business went.  It seems far outside of &amp;quot;progressive&amp;quot; for the time period. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Mass, 1675-1680 – Women in county courts (Malefactors and Complainants) ==&lt;br /&gt;
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So, pre-marital sex was a big no-no. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I&amp;#039;d imagine that the only way the courts found out would be if a) you had a &amp;quot;bastard child&amp;quot; (Mary Chelson) or b) actually told the courts (William and Mary Backway)? So they were both whipped and fined.  However, when Rebecca Auborne admits to having a child with Samuel Kemble, she is whipped and he is just ordered to pay child support - why wouldn&amp;#039;t he have been whipped like William Backway?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; - Matt&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I kind of enjoyed reading this section, in the same way you enjoy reading the police blotter.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It was like a tabloid with odd spelling- but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;the punishments kind of appalled me. I realize that lashings were a very common punishment in this time, but some of the sentences seemed extreme for the crime committed.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The sentence given to the Backways, for example- by the time of this writing, they were already married. Why was the court still punishing them for something they had done a while back? There was no mention made of a child, so I wonder how they ended up confessing in court to pre-marital sex. I was also startled by the sentence given to Margaret Brewster, which says she is to &amp;quot;strip to the waist&amp;quot; before being whipped. That they would ask a woman to take off clothing seems like it would be very unusual, and none of the other cases mention the woman being told to take off her clothing before being whipped, so this seems like a departure from the norm. - Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
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When Woloch mentions women serving as an extension of their husbands in the courts, does she mean as a &amp;quot;deputy husband?&amp;quot; Also, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found the case of Margaret Brewster extremely interesting. As a woman who disguised herself in wearing black face and teaching the Word of God, she is definitely an exception.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  What was even more surprising than her actions was her extremely severe punishment for such a crime. &amp;quot;to bee stripped unto the waste and to bee tied to a cart&amp;#039;s tayle and whip&amp;#039;t out of the Town with twenty stripes, beginning at the said meeting house.&amp;quot; Harsh. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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After reading these complaints, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was struck by the fact that all of these read “after she confessed”. Did all of these women really stand up in court and say yes it was me.  I did this horrible thing that you are accusing me of.  Were these women force to say these things, simply to get a more bearable punishment?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it interesting that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;in many of these complaints, women were being charged with &amp;quot;fornication&amp;quot; and some with &amp;quot;fornication and having a bastard child.&amp;quot; Why is it that only women are being convicted and punished for having sex out of wedlock?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Is it all the womans fault? I&amp;#039;m pretty sure it definitely takes two and I highly doubt that these women were just so overpowering and forceful that they made these men have sex with them. It&amp;#039;s absolutely outrageous. In the case of Rebecca Auborne and Samuel Kemble, the courts at least charged both of them for fornication and producing a bastard child; however, only Rebecca receives a physical punishment (&amp;quot;whip&amp;#039;t with Fifteen Stripes&amp;quot;, along with a monetary payment of 5 pounds and court fees) whereas Samuel Kemble (who actively participated in their fornication as well) was only sentenced to pay court fees and child support. Also, I agree with Kayle in her point she made about all of these women confessing. William Backway and his wife Mary were convicted &amp;quot;by theire own confession in court of committing fornication&amp;quot; (79). How exactly did the court find out about this fornication before their marriage? The text mentions no child involved as other passages do. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In another example, Elizabeth Langberry was committed to prison and forced to pay court fees for becoming too drunk and allowing Thomas Ockerby to pull her into his lap. Why would she be punished for something that was not her fault?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
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I too wondered about the women being charged with having sex before marriage and having a child. Unless you have a child, how would one find out and charge you with fornication before marriage? I wonder if they were ashamed and told on themselves, or if someone who knew about the act told someone else to get her in trouble. Also, does the man get in trouble for this? I was most shocked by the &amp;quot;Backway Sentence.&amp;quot; A husband and wife confessed to having sex before marriage and they were both punished with being whipped or his wife could pay fifty shillings instead of receiving her whippings. I seriously blows my mind that they were punished even though they ended up getting married!  This section also shows how little respect the court had for women. They often whipped the women as a punishment. This may sound sexist, but being whipped seems more like a punishment for a man, not a woman. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was not surprised by the fact that women were more commonly in court as the defendant being charged with fornication, bastardy, theft, or selling a liquor without a license. I was interested by the fact that whipping was a common sentence, I associate whipping with slavery...&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  --Emma C&lt;br /&gt;
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== Virginia, 1642, NY 1721-1759 – Widows, Wills and Dower Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it really interesting that there was a different standard based on where you live.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Each of these women receive something from there husband but the Virginia will did not care whether or not she remarried. She was still the woman that had been his wife while he was alive. Was this because of the location or simply because of the customs? –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Women’s Estates, Mass, 1664, NY 1747-1759 ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This will stuck out to me more then the others.  After reading a few, I am sitting here thinking about how their wills were written, compared to how wills are written today. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; They were literally leaving everything they owned to someone.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  A dozen napkins?  Nowadays if that was left to you, I feel it would be more of an insult and/or a cruel joke.  It really just shows you how much stock they put into what they owned. - Matt&lt;br /&gt;
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For these women in mid-eighteenth century Massachusetts, they would rely on their wills to exercise some remote sense of legal power. I think that could by why they were so detailed when leaving literally all they owned. --Ellen&lt;br /&gt;
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== Suzanne Lebsock, The Free Women of Petersburg ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I find it interesting that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;being an administrator/executor of a will would jump-start a business career for women. Lebsock describes that &amp;quot;as the executors of administrators of their deceased husbands&amp;#039; estates. . .the administrator was obliged to dissolve partnerships, to collect and pay debts, to pursue litigation, to distribute the estate to the proper heirs, and to manage it in the meantime.&amp;quot; It seems that women more or less got a crash-course in conducting business and would find some prosperity in their loss&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems women&amp;#039;s roles in the church and charity pushed them to make decisions to give their wealth to people in need.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Women usually gave to other women, which makes sense because many poor people were widows and orphans. However, women did choose favorites when sharing their good fortune. Women had favorite slaves, daughters, or other women. For women dividing wills was rarely equal. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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Women used their wealth and good fortune based on their own value systems that differed from men&amp;#039;s values. Lebsock calls this &amp;quot;persistent personalism.&amp;quot;And, this &amp;quot;persistent personalism&amp;quot; drove women to give to charity and the church. Also, to use their money for themselves or to certain individuals. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I liked the difference the author established between the dominant narrative of women&amp;#039;s passivity and their caution in investing. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Women had every reason to be cautious - they often had less experience, and less resources at their disposal. But that didn&amp;#039;t mean that the decisions they were making with their estates and their families estates weren&amp;#039;t just as active and thoughtful&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This essay was certainly not without its own biases. I was with Lebsock up until her explanation of women using their wills to free their slaves. According to Lebsock, the vast majority of southern women were really opposed to slavery deep down, and showed it in their wills, and slavery was really perpetuated by all those evil men. I buy her explanations (personalization) for wills, administration, etc, but this is a little too romanticized for me.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
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As Lebsock notes, &amp;quot;Women, more than men, noticed and responded to the needs and merits of particular persons.&amp;quot; (142) Throughout this reading, Lebsock emphasized this point.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; What I find most interesting about the reading, though, is the manner in which it seemed (to me, anyway) that Lebsock almost danced around a fairly obvious point while describing attitudes about slavery and slaves, without coming out and saying it. For me, after reading Mary Cumming&amp;#039;s description of her specific slaves (&amp;quot;...Mary is a pretty good worker at her needle, she is now sitting beside me making a slip for herself&amp;quot; (139)) it seemed so patently obvious to me that women&amp;#039;s more individualistic approach to slaves was due to their far greater and more meaningful interactions with slaves. While Lebsock goes part of the way--discussing, as Stef mentions, women&amp;#039;s increasing likelihood to personalize their wills relative to their actual relationships, not custom or law--she fails to explore why that was the case. While men would interact with slaves more fleetingly, while in transit, overseeing work, or giving orders, it was not--as far as I know--uncommon for white women and their slaves to be performing household tasks at the same time, and in the same location.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; That is the exact set of circumstances that can lead to regular discussion, to feelings of intimacy, and to a meaningful individual relationship. That seemed even clearer to me when compared with men like Edmund Ruffin, the proslavery apologist who--almost intentionally, it seems--omitted any mention of his slaves from his otherwise intensely personal writings. For Ruffin, his interactions with slaves (&amp;quot;...yanking off his boots, one imagines, stirring up his woodstove, serving his suppers&amp;quot;(140)) tended to be shorter, single-action based interactions, unlike the prolongued interactions between white women and their slaves (as with Cummings, sitting beside her slave while one wrote a letter and the other sewed). -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In this article I found it interesting that Mary Bolling was able to pick and choose who she wanted her estate to go to.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  I thought that the first male would get everything, boy was I wrong.  I also thought that she was a smart lady by investing in many different things to grow her estate for her children and her grandchildren.  Not only was she making money she also knew the law and tried to have a stipulation in her will saying that if the Shore’s bring suit against her, her daughter Ann would receive nothing. I also was amused to know that even in the early 1800’s (around 1819) people were still getting swindled out of their money. Then it was tradesmen and slaves on women, and now its telemarketers and mail order items on elderly people.  I also felt for Mary Read Anderson.  She was never taught the ins and outs of business, so she always relied on a man and she “was to emphasize womanly weakness in order to justify her dependence on a male protector.”(Women Alone, 119)--Pam Petzold&lt;br /&gt;
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In Lebsock&amp;#039;s article I was particularly interested in Mary Bolling&amp;#039;s approach to her will.  Yes most of us would assume that women would follow the direction that their husbands might take in making their wills.  It&amp;#039;s refreshing to know that there were a few women who made their own choices. The quote &amp;quot;Whether we regard behavior like that of Mary Bolling as a positive assertion of the primacy of human feeling or as an ugly exercise in pettiness, the point remains that women made economic decisions according to their own standards&amp;quot; appeals to me because Mary didn&amp;#039;t care about how it looked, it&amp;#039;s what she wanted. This really made sense to me, women may not have control of any property/other items but still have opinions about it when it will become their&amp;#039;s upon their husbands death.  --Remy B.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_8_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 8 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_8_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-10-20T10:26:02Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Overarching Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In many of the readings, I was surprised to read that women tended to leave possessions in unequal amounts to their heirs whereas men tended to split up what was theirs equally&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. I would have assumed that men would favor their sons over their daughters, but they tended to leave their offspring relatively equal shares (although in the form of land for sons and movable things for daughters). It is interesting that women favored their daughters in wills. Perhaps this is because women did not have many rights of ownership so the women wanted to aid their female relatives in any way possible. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
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== Antenuptial contract, Mass, 1653 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New England Divorce, CT, 1655-1678; MD, 1680 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When reading the divorce laws of Connecticut, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I expected the reasons for granting of divorces to be things such as adultery or desertion. What I did not expect was the long periods of time a spouse has to be away before the law considers the absence desertion.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Three years with a total neglect of duty or seven years of providential absence seems like an extremely long amount of time, particularly for the wife being deserted. Especially since the woman cannot get married to another before the period is up and the divorce is granted, likely leaving the woman in very poor economical standing. In the case of Bridget Baxter, after the divorce was granted, the court allowed her to sell her husbands estate to pay off debts but I can imagine this would not be enough in the case of many women, especially if they were becoming indebted for the years their husbands were gone. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In the divorce laws, I was surprised at how much they made marriage sound like slavery. The laws included words like &amp;quot;sett her free from her said husband,&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;be free from her conjugall bonds.&amp;quot; Even in the case of Robert Wade, the law said that he was &amp;quot;free from Joanne Wade.&amp;quot; At first I thought that it was a negative portrayal of marriage, but I have reconsidered the possibility that they mean &amp;quot;bonds&amp;quot; in the best way, as marriage was a bond between people.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
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I read the New England Divorce notices and was really surprised and appalled by the 1662 &amp;quot;whereas the estate that her husband Baxter left with her is sold to pay debts, all excepting a bed and her wearing aparell&amp;quot; meaning they took EVERYTHING BUT THE SHIRT OFF HER BACK.  I thought this was just an expression, but apparently it was not.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;So strange that they would be so harsh to a woman when the debt was her husbands and not her owns.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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I found it ironic that women in New England were the only ones permitted a full divorce as compared to the rest of the colonies.  Even though the women were granted divorces on very valid reasons it seems contradictory to the other laws would allow for severe punishments for premarital sex or coming to church dirty. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; How is it a woman could exercise enough power to end a marriage but could be reprimanded for offenses that seem trivial to divorce?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; For a relationship that was based in the church it seems that it should be much harder to break it and especially by the woman who was viewed as morally and spiritually weaker than her husband.  --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thought the most interesting part of this section was the case of Elizabeth Griswould. It was ten years between the initial trial and the trial for child support. The court seemed to be especially sympathetic towards Elizabeth. Their sympathy appears to be based upon the fact that her ex-husband, John Rogers, spoke against religion during the first trial. The court is so sympathetic that they make sure that Rogers can pay his child support and require that he give Elizabeth his piece of land if he cannot pay the twenty pound sum. -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Why were these men deserting these women?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  I see some men just couldn’t live with their wives and some were out at sea (vessel or company?).  I guess some men could have also gone hunting and went missing during their trips, but how come there were so many women without husbands who disappeared without a trace?  “In the eighteenth century, deserted wives continued to predominate among the colony’s divorce petitioners, but the number of husbands complaining of desertion increased as did the numbers of wives who cited adultery in their petitions.”(Woloch, 72)  Most women who went for these divorces did not know where their husbands could have gone or their said husbands admitted to committing adultery.-- Pam Petzold&lt;br /&gt;
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== SC feme sole trader acts, 1712, 1744 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was really surprised by the Feme Sole Trader Acts in South Carolina.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Obviously these women still had to have permission from their hubsands to be labeled as Feme Sole, but once they got that label they were free to do as they wished as far as their business went.  It seems far outside of &amp;quot;progressive&amp;quot; for the time period. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mass, 1675-1680 – Women in county courts (Malefactors and Complainants) ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, pre-marital sex was a big no-no. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; I&amp;#039;d imagine that the only way the courts found out would be if a) you had a &amp;quot;bastard child&amp;quot; (Mary Chelson) or b) actually told the courts (William and Mary Backway)? So they were both whipped and fined.  However, when Rebecca Auborne admits to having a child with Samuel Kemble, she is whipped and he is just ordered to pay child support - why wouldn&amp;#039;t he have been whipped like William Backway?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; - Matt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I kind of enjoyed reading this section, in the same way you enjoy reading the police blotter.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; It was like a tabloid with odd spelling- but &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;the punishments kind of appalled me. I realize that lashings were a very common punishment in this time, but some of the sentences seemed extreme for the crime committed.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; The sentence given to the Backways, for example- by the time of this writing, they were already married. Why was the court still punishing them for something they had done a while back? There was no mention made of a child, so I wonder how they ended up confessing in court to pre-marital sex. I was also startled by the sentence given to Margaret Brewster, which says she is to &amp;quot;strip to the waist&amp;quot; before being whipped. That they would ask a woman to take off clothing seems like it would be very unusual, and none of the other cases mention the woman being told to take off her clothing before being whipped, so this seems like a departure from the norm. - Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Woloch mentions women serving as an extension of their husbands in the courts, does she mean as a &amp;quot;deputy husband?&amp;quot; Also, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found the case of Margaret Brewster extremely interesting. As a woman who disguised herself in wearing black face and teaching the Word of God, she is definitely an exception.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  What was even more surprising than her actions was her extremely severe punishment for such a crime. &amp;quot;to bee stripped unto the waste and to bee tied to a cart&amp;#039;s tayle and whip&amp;#039;t out of the Town with twenty stripes, beginning at the said meeting house.&amp;quot; Harsh. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After reading these complaints, &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I was struck by the fact that all of these read “after she confessed”. Did all of these women really stand up in court and say yes it was me.  I did this horrible thing that you are accusing me of.  Were these women force to say these things, simply to get a more bearable punishment?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found it interesting that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;in many of these complaints, women were being charged with &amp;quot;fornication&amp;quot; and some with &amp;quot;fornication and having a bastard child.&amp;quot; Why is it that only women are being convicted and punished for having sex out of wedlock?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Is it all the womans fault? I&amp;#039;m pretty sure it definitely takes two and I highly doubt that these women were just so overpowering and forceful that they made these men have sex with them. It&amp;#039;s absolutely outrageous. In the case of Rebecca Auborne and Samuel Kemble, the courts at least charged both of them for fornication and producing a bastard child; however, only Rebecca receives a physical punishment (&amp;quot;whip&amp;#039;t with Fifteen Stripes&amp;quot;, along with a monetary payment of 5 pounds and court fees) whereas Samuel Kemble (who actively participated in their fornication as well) was only sentenced to pay court fees and child support. Also, I agree with Kayle in her point she made about all of these women confessing. William Backway and his wife Mary were convicted &amp;quot;by theire own confession in court of committing fornication&amp;quot; (79). How exactly did the court find out about this fornication before their marriage? The text mentions no child involved as other passages do. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In another example, Elizabeth Langberry was committed to prison and forced to pay court fees for becoming too drunk and allowing Thomas Ockerby to pull her into his lap. Why would she be punished for something that was not her fault?&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I too wondered about the women being charged with having sex before marriage and having a child. Unless you have a child, how would one find out and charge you with fornication before marriage? I wonder if they were ashamed and told on themselves, or if someone who knew about the act told someone else to get her in trouble. Also, does the man get in trouble for this? I was most shocked by the &amp;quot;Backway Sentence.&amp;quot; A husband and wife confessed to having sex before marriage and they were both punished with being whipped or his wife could pay fifty shillings instead of receiving her whippings. I seriously blows my mind that they were punished even though they ended up getting married!  This section also shows how little respect the court had for women. They often whipped the women as a punishment. This may sound sexist, but being whipped seems more like a punishment for a man, not a woman. --Ashley V.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Virginia, 1642, NY 1721-1759 – Widows, Wills and Dower Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;I found it really interesting that there was a different standard based on where you live.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  Each of these women receive something from there husband but the Virginia will did not care whether or not she remarried. She was still the woman that had been his wife while he was alive. Was this because of the location or simply because of the customs? –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Women’s Estates, Mass, 1664, NY 1747-1759 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This will stuck out to me more then the others.  After reading a few, I am sitting here thinking about how their wills were written, compared to how wills are written today. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; They were literally leaving everything they owned to someone.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  A dozen napkins?  Nowadays if that was left to you, I feel it would be more of an insult and/or a cruel joke.  It really just shows you how much stock they put into what they owned. - Matt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Suzanne Lebsock, The Free Women of Petersburg ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find it interesting that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;being an administrator/executor of a will would jump-start a business career for women. Lebsock describes that &amp;quot;as the executors of administrators of their deceased husbands&amp;#039; estates. . .the administrator was obliged to dissolve partnerships, to collect and pay debts, to pursue litigation, to distribute the estate to the proper heirs, and to manage it in the meantime.&amp;quot; It seems that women more or less got a crash-course in conducting business and would find some prosperity in their loss&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. --Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;It seems women&amp;#039;s roles in the church and charity pushed them to make decisions to give their wealth to people in need.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; Women usually gave to other women, which makes sense because many poor people were widows and orphans. However, women did choose favorites when sharing their good fortune. Women had favorite slaves, daughters, or other women. For women dividing wills was rarely equal. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Women used their wealth and good fortune based on their own value systems that differed from men&amp;#039;s values. Lebsock calls this &amp;quot;persistent personalism.&amp;quot;And, this &amp;quot;persistent personalism&amp;quot; drove women to give to charity and the church. Also, to use their money for themselves or to certain individuals. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I liked the difference the author established between the dominant narrative of women&amp;#039;s passivity and their caution in investing. &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;Women had every reason to be cautious - they often had less experience, and less resources at their disposal. But that didn&amp;#039;t mean that the decisions they were making with their estates and their families estates weren&amp;#039;t just as active and thoughtful&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;This essay was certainly not without its own biases. I was with Lebsock up until her explanation of women using their wills to free their slaves. According to Lebsock, the vast majority of southern women were really opposed to slavery deep down, and showed it in their wills, and slavery was really perpetuated by all those evil men. I buy her explanations (personalization) for wills, administration, etc, but this is a little too romanticized for me.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As Lebsock notes, &amp;quot;Women, more than men, noticed and responded to the needs and merits of particular persons.&amp;quot; (142) Throughout this reading, Lebsock emphasized this point.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; What I find most interesting about the reading, though, is the manner in which it seemed (to me, anyway) that Lebsock almost danced around a fairly obvious point while describing attitudes about slavery and slaves, without coming out and saying it. For me, after reading Mary Cumming&amp;#039;s description of her specific slaves (&amp;quot;...Mary is a pretty good worker at her needle, she is now sitting beside me making a slip for herself&amp;quot; (139)) it seemed so patently obvious to me that women&amp;#039;s more individualistic approach to slaves was due to their far greater and more meaningful interactions with slaves. While Lebsock goes part of the way--discussing, as Stef mentions, women&amp;#039;s increasing likelihood to personalize their wills relative to their actual relationships, not custom or law--she fails to explore why that was the case. While men would interact with slaves more fleetingly, while in transit, overseeing work, or giving orders, it was not--as far as I know--uncommon for white women and their slaves to be performing household tasks at the same time, and in the same location.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; That is the exact set of circumstances that can lead to regular discussion, to feelings of intimacy, and to a meaningful individual relationship. That seemed even clearer to me when compared with men like Edmund Ruffin, the proslavery apologist who--almost intentionally, it seems--omitted any mention of his slaves from his otherwise intensely personal writings. For Ruffin, his interactions with slaves (&amp;quot;...yanking off his boots, one imagines, stirring up his woodstove, serving his suppers&amp;quot;(140)) tended to be shorter, single-action based interactions, unlike the prolongued interactions between white women and their slaves (as with Cummings, sitting beside her slave while one wrote a letter and the other sewed). -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In this article I found it interesting that Mary Bolling was able to pick and choose who she wanted her estate to go to.&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  I thought that the first male would get everything, boy was I wrong.  I also thought that she was a smart lady by investing in many different things to grow her estate for her children and her grandchildren.  Not only was she making money she also knew the law and tried to have a stipulation in her will saying that if the Shore’s bring suit against her, her daughter Ann would receive nothing. I also was amused to know that even in the early 1800’s (around 1819) people were still getting swindled out of their money. Then it was tradesmen and slaves on women, and now its telemarketers and mail order items on elderly people.  I also felt for Mary Read Anderson.  She was never taught the ins and outs of business, so she always relied on a man and she “was to emphasize womanly weakness in order to justify her dependence on a male protector.”(Women Alone, 119)--Pam Petzold&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_8_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 8 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_8_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-10-20T09:59:02Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: /* Overarching Questions */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;== Overarching Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;In many of the readings, I was surprised to read that women tended to leave possessions in unequal amounts to their heirs whereas men tended to split up what was theirs equally&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;. I would have assumed that men would favor their sons over their daughters, but they tended to leave their offspring relatively equal shares (although in the form of land for sons and movable things for daughters). It is interesting that women favored their daughters in wills. Perhaps this is because women did not have many rights of ownership so the women wanted to aid their female relatives in any way possible. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why were these men deserting these women?  I see some men just couldn’t live with their wives and some were out at sea (vessel or company?).  I guess some men could have also gone hunting and went missing during their trips, but how come there were so many women without husbands who disappeared without a trace?  “In the eighteenth century, deserted wives continued to predominate among the colony’s divorce petitioners, but the number of husbands complaining of desertion increased as did the numbers of wives who cited adultery in their petitions.”(Woloch, 72)  Most women who went for these divorces did not know where their husbands could have gone or their said husbands admitted to committing adultery.-- Pam Petzold&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Antenuptial contract, Mass, 1653 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New England Divorce, CT, 1655-1678; MD, 1680 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When reading the divorce laws of Connecticut, I expected the reasons for granting of divorces to be things such as adultery or desertion. What I did not expect was the long periods of time a spouse has to be away before the law considers the absence desertion. Three years with a total neglect of duty or seven years of providential absence seems like an extremely long amount of time, particularly for the wife being deserted. Especially since the woman cannot get married to another before the period is up and the divorce is granted, likely leaving the woman in very poor economical standing. In the case of Bridget Baxter, after the divorce was granted, the court allowed her to sell her husbands estate to pay off debts but I can imagine this would not be enough in the case of many women, especially if they were becoming indebted for the years their husbands were gone. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the divorce laws, I was surprised at how much they made marriage sound like slavery. The laws included words like &amp;quot;sett her free from her said husband,&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;be free from her conjugall bonds.&amp;quot; Even in the case of Robert Wade, the law said that he was &amp;quot;free from Joanne Wade.&amp;quot; At first I thought that it was a negative portrayal of marriage, but I have reconsidered the possibility that they mean &amp;quot;bonds&amp;quot; in the best way, as marriage was a bond between people. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I read the New England Divorce notices and was really surprised and appalled by the 1662 &amp;quot;whereas the estate that her husband Baxter left with her is sold to pay debts, all excepting a bed and her wearing aparell&amp;quot; meaning they took EVERYTHING BUT THE SHIRT OFF HER BACK.  I thought this was just an expression, but apparently it was not.  So strange that they would be so harsh to a woman when the debt was her husbands and not her owns. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found it ironic that women in New England were the only ones permitted a full divorce as compared to the rest of the colonies.  Even though the women were granted divorces on very valid reasons it seems contradictory to the other laws would allow for severe punishments for premarital sex or coming to church dirty.  How is it a woman could exercise enough power to end a marriage but could be reprimanded for offenses that seem trivial to divorce? For a relationship that was based in the church it seems that it should be much harder to break it and especially by the woman who was viewed as morally and spiritually weaker than her husband.  --Rachel T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I thought the most interesting part of this section was the case of Elizabeth Griswould. It was ten years between the initial trial and the trial for child support. The court seemed to be especially sympathetic towards Elizabeth. Their sympathy appears to be based upon the fact that her ex-husband, John Rogers, spoke against religion during the first trial. The court is so sympathetic that they make sure that Rogers can pay his child support and require that he give Elizabeth his piece of land if he cannot pay the twenty pound sum. -- Hannah W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SC feme sole trader acts, 1712, 1744 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was really surprised by the Feme Sole Trader Acts in South Carolina. Obviously these women still had to have permission from their hubsands to be labeled as Feme Sole, but once they got that label they were free to do as they wished as far as their business went.  It seems far outside of &amp;quot;progressive&amp;quot; for the time period. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mass, 1675-1680 – Women in county courts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, pre-marital sex was a big no-no.  I&amp;#039;d imagine that the only way the courts found out would be if a) you had a &amp;quot;bastard child&amp;quot; (Mary Chelson) or b) actually told the courts (William and Mary Backway)? So they were both whipped and fined.  However, when Rebecca Auborne admits to having a child with Samuel Kemble, she is whipped and he is just ordered to pay child support - why wouldn&amp;#039;t he have been whipped like William Backway? - Matt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I kind of enjoyed reading this section, in the same way you enjoy reading the police blotter. It was like a tabloid with odd spelling- but the punishments kind of appalled me. I realize that lashings were a very common punishment in this time, but some of the sentences seemed extreme for the crime committed. The sentence given to the Backways, for example- by the time of this writing, they were already married. Why was the court still punishing them for something they had done a while back? There was no mention made of a child, so I wonder how they ended up confessing in court to pre-marital sex. I was also startled by the sentence given to Margaret Brewster, which says she is to &amp;quot;strip to the waist&amp;quot; before being whipped. That they would ask a woman to take off clothing seems like it would be very unusual, and none of the other cases mention the woman being told to take off her clothing before being whipped, so this seems like a departure from the norm. - Rebecca W.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When Woloch mentions women serving as an extension of their husbands in the courts, does she mean as a &amp;quot;deputy husband?&amp;quot; Also, I found the case of Margaret Brewster extremely interesting. As a woman who disguised herself in wearing black face and teaching the Word of God, she is definitely an exception.  What was even more surprising than her actions was her extremely severe punishment for such a crime. &amp;quot;to bee stripped unto the waste and to bee tied to a cart&amp;#039;s tayle and whip&amp;#039;t out of the Town with twenty stripes, beginning at the said meeting house.&amp;quot; Harsh. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Virginia, 1642, NY 1721-1759 – Widows, Wills and Dower Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found it really interesting that there was a different standard based on where you live.  Each of these women receive something from there husband but the Virginia will did not care whether or not she remarried. She was still the woman that had been his wife while he was alive. Was this because of the location or simply because of the customs? –Kayle P.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Women’s Estates, Mass, 1664, NY 1747-1759 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This will stuck out to me more then the others.  After reading a few, I am sitting here thinking about how their wills were written, compared to how wills are written today.  They were literally leaving everything they owned to someone.  A dozen napkins?  Nowadays if that was left to you, I feel it would be more of an insult and/or a cruel joke.  It really just shows you how much stock they put into what they owned. - Matt&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Suzanne Lebsock, The Free Women of Petersburg ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find it interesting that being an administrator/executor of a will would jump-start a business career for women. Lebsock describes that &amp;quot;as the executors of administrators of their deceased husbands&amp;#039; estates. . .the administrator was obliged to dissolve partnerships, to collect and pay debts, to pursue litigation, to distribute the estate to the proper heirs, and to manage it in the meantime.&amp;quot; It seems that women more or less got a crash-course in conducting business and would find some prosperity in their loss. --Heather T.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It seems women&amp;#039;s roles in the church and charity pushed them to make decisions to give their wealth to people in need. Women usually gave to other women, which makes sense because many poor people were widows and orphans. However, women did choose favorites when sharing their good fortune. Women had favorite slaves, daughters, or other women. For women dividing wills was rarely equal. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Women used their wealth and good fortune based on their own value systems that differed from men&amp;#039;s values. Lebsock calls this &amp;quot;persistent personalism.&amp;quot;And, this &amp;quot;persistent personalism&amp;quot; drove women to give to charity and the church. Also, to use their money for themselves or to certain individuals. --Michelle M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I liked the difference the author established between the dominant narrative of women&amp;#039;s passivity and their caution in investing. Women had every reason to be cautious - they often had less experience, and less resources at their disposal. But that didn&amp;#039;t mean that the decisions they were making with their estates and their families estates weren&amp;#039;t just as active and thoughtful. -- Katie C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This essay was certainly not without its own biases. I was with Lebsock up until her explanation of women using their wills to free their slaves. According to Lebsock, the vast majority of southern women were really opposed to slavery deep down, and showed it in their wills, and slavery was really perpetuated by all those evil men. I buy her explanations (personalization) for wills, administration, etc, but this is a little too romanticized for me. --Stef L.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As Lebsock notes, &amp;quot;Women, more than men, noticed and responded to the needs and merits of particular persons.&amp;quot; (142) Throughout this reading, Lebsock emphasized this point. What I find most interesting about the reading, though, is the manner in which it seemed (to me, anyway) that Lebsock almost danced around a fairly obvious point while describing attitudes about slavery and slaves, without coming out and saying it. For me, after reading Mary Cumming&amp;#039;s description of her specific slaves (&amp;quot;...Mary is a pretty good worker at her needle, she is now sitting beside me making a slip for herself&amp;quot; (139)) it seemed so patently obvious to me that women&amp;#039;s more individualistic approach to slaves was due to their far greater and more meaningful interactions with slaves. While Lebsock goes part of the way--discussing, as Stef mentions, women&amp;#039;s increasing likelihood to personalize their wills relative to their actual relationships, not custom or law--she fails to explore why that was the case. While men would interact with slaves more fleetingly, while in transit, overseeing work, or giving orders, it was not--as far as I know--uncommon for white women and their slaves to be performing household tasks at the same time, and in the same location. That is the exact set of circumstances that can lead to regular discussion, to feelings of intimacy, and to a meaningful individual relationship. That seemed even clearer to me when compared with men like Edmund Ruffin, the proslavery apologist who--almost intentionally, it seems--omitted any mention of his slaves from his otherwise intensely personal writings. For Ruffin, his interactions with slaves (&amp;quot;...yanking off his boots, one imagines, stirring up his woodstove, serving his suppers&amp;quot;(140)) tended to be shorter, single-action based interactions, unlike the prolongued interactions between white women and their slaves (as with Cummings, sitting beside her slave while one wrote a letter and the other sewed). -- Nicole&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In this article I found it interesting that Mary Bolling was able to pick and choose who she wanted her estate to go to.  I thought that the first male would get everything, boy was I wrong.  I also thought that she was a smart lady by investing in many different things to grow her estate for her children and her grandchildren.  Not only was she making money she also knew the law and tried to have a stipulation in her will saying that if the Shore’s bring suit against her, her daughter Ann would receive nothing. I also was amused to know that even in the early 1800’s (around 1819) people were still getting swindled out of their money. Then it was tradesmen and slaves on women, and now its telemarketers and mail order items on elderly people.  I also felt for Mary Read Anderson.  She was never taught the ins and outs of business, so she always relied on a man and she “was to emphasize womanly weakness in order to justify her dependence on a male protector.”(Women Alone, 119)--Pam Petzold&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Malefactors and Complainants ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After reading these complaints, I was struck by the fact that all of these read “after she confessed”. Did all of these women really stand up in court and say yes it was me.  I did this horrible thing that you are accusing me of.  Were these women force to say these things, simply to get a more bearable punishment? –Kayle P&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I found it interesting that in many of these complaints, women were being charged with &amp;quot;fornication&amp;quot; and some with &amp;quot;fornication and having a bastard child.&amp;quot; Why is it that only women are being convicted and punished for having sex out of wedlock? Is it all the womans fault? I&amp;#039;m pretty sure it definitely takes two and I highly doubt that these women were just so overpowering and forceful that they made these men have sex with them. It&amp;#039;s absolutely outrageous. In the case of Rebecca Auborne and Samuel Kemble, the courts at least charged both of them for fornication and producing a bastard child; however, only Rebecca receives a physical punishment (&amp;quot;whip&amp;#039;t with Fifteen Stripes&amp;quot;, along with a monetary payment of 5 pounds and court fees) whereas Samuel Kemble (who actively participated in their fornication as well) was only sentenced to pay court fees and child support. Also, I agree with Kayle in her point she made about all of these women confessing. William Backway and his wife Mary were convicted &amp;quot;by theire own confession in court of committing fornication&amp;quot; (79). How exactly did the court find out about this fornication before their marriage? The text mentions no child involved as other passages do. In another example, Elizabeth Langberry was committed to prison and forced to pay court fees for becoming too drunk and allowing Thomas Ockerby to pull her into his lap. Why would she be punished for something that was not her fault? -- Lindsey S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I too wondered about the women being charged with having sex before marriage and having a child. Unless you have a child, how would one find out and charge you with fornication before marriage? I wonder if they were ashamed and told on themselves, or if someone who knew about the act told someone else to get her in trouble. Also, does the man get in trouble for this? I was most shocked by the &amp;quot;Backway Sentence.&amp;quot; A husband and wife confessed to having sex before marriage and they were both punished with being whipped or his wife could pay fifty shillings instead of receiving her whippings. I seriously blows my mind that they were punished even though they ended up getting married!&lt;br /&gt;
This section also shows how little respect the court had for women. They often whipped the women as a punishment. This may sound sexist, but being whipped seems more like a punishment for a man, not a woman. --Ashley V.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_8_Questions/Comments-327_11</id>
		<title>Week 8 Questions/Comments-327 11</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=Week_8_Questions/Comments-327_11"/>
				<updated>2011-10-19T22:22:46Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Overarching Questions ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In many of the readings, I was surprised to read that women tended to leave possessions in unequal amounts to their heirs whereas men tended to split up what was theirs equally. I would have assumed that men would favor their sons over their daughters, but they tended to leave their offspring relatively equal shares (although in the form of land for sons and movable things for daughters). It is interesting that women favored their daughters in wills. Perhaps this is because women did not have many rights of ownership so the women wanted to aid their female relatives in any way possible. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Antenuptial contract, Mass, 1653 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New England Divorce, CT, 1655-1678; MD, 1680 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When reading the divorce laws of Connecticut, I expected the reasons for granting of divorces to be things such as adultery or desertion. What I did not expect was the long periods of time a spouse has to be away before the law considers the absence desertion. Three years with a total neglect of duty or seven years of providential absence seems like an extremely long amount of time, particularly for the wife being deserted. Especially since the woman cannot get married to another before the period is up and the divorce is granted, likely leaving the woman in very poor economical standing. In the case of Bridget Baxter, after the divorce was granted, the court allowed her to sell her husbands estate to pay off debts but I can imagine this would not be enough in the case of many women, especially if they were becoming indebted for the years their husbands were gone. --Clare O.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the divorce laws, I was surprised at how much they made marriage sound like slavery. The laws included words like &amp;quot;sett her free from her said husband,&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;be free from her conjugall bonds.&amp;quot; Even in the case of Robert Wade, the law said that he was &amp;quot;free from Joanne Wade.&amp;quot; At first I thought that it was a negative portrayal of marriage, but I have reconsidered the possibility that they mean &amp;quot;bonds&amp;quot; in the best way, as marriage was a bond between people. --Mary Beth M.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I read the New England Divorce notices and was really surprised and appalled by the 1662 &amp;quot;whereas the estate that her husband Baxter left with her is sold to pay debts, all excepting a bed and her wearing aparell&amp;quot; meaning they took EVERYTHING BUT THE SHIRT OFF HER BACK.  I thought this was just an expression, but apparently it was not.  So strange that they would be so harsh to a woman when the debt was her husbands and not her owns. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== SC feme sole trader acts, 1712, 1744 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I was really surprised by the Feme Sole Trader Acts in South Carolina. Obviously these women still had to have permission from their hubsands to be labeled as Feme Sole, but once they got that label they were free to do as they wished as far as their business went.  It seems far outside of &amp;quot;progressive&amp;quot; for the time period. --Sara S.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mass, 1675-1680 – Women in county courts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Virginia, 1642, NY 1721-1759 – Widows, Wills and Dower Rights ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Women’s Estates, Mass, 1664, NY 1747-1759 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Suzanne Lebsock, The Free Women of Petersburg ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find it interesting that being an administrator/executor of a will would jump-start a business career for women. Lebsock describes that &amp;quot;as the executors of administrators of their deceased husbands&amp;#039; estates. . .the administrator was obliged to dissolve partnerships, to collect and pay debts, to pursue litigation, to distribute the estate to the proper heirs, and to manage it in the meantime.&amp;quot; It seems that women more or less got a crash-course in conducting business and would find some prosperity in their loss. --Heather T.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011</id>
		<title>HIST 327-2011</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011"/>
				<updated>2011-10-19T22:10:03Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[HIST327_11 Questions]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Syllabus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Topics/collections already approved -- Remember that only one person can work on a given topic/person. [Don&amp;#039;t add your own topic here. I&amp;#039;ll add the topic after I&amp;#039;ve approved it. -- Dr. M]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clare -- Kate Dunlap Diary (online project) &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pam -- Judith Sargent Murray writings &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Grace -- Mercy Otis Warren&amp;#039;s writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sara -- Angelina Grimke&amp;#039;s letters/speeches &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Katie -- Frances Willard&amp;#039;s Diaries&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kayle -- Catherine Beecher&amp;#039;s materials&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Lydia Maria Child&amp;#039;s American Frugal Housewife &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rebecca -- Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s Hospital Sketches, My Contraband, and other writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matt -- Annie Denton Cridge&amp;#039;s Man&amp;#039;s Rights&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jennifer -- Women in CW Wisconsin (via several primary sources)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Catherine K.-- Belle Edmondson&amp;#039;s diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ellen -- Eliza Wilkinson&amp;#039;s letters in the Revolutionary War&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mary Beth -- Rose O&amp;#039;Neal Greenhow&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Emma -- Abigail Adams&amp;#039;s letters with John from a single year&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aqsa--Emma Florence LeConte diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Remy -- Catherine Sedgwick&amp;#039;s letters&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nicole -- (Anna Holstein)&amp;#039;s memoir Three Years in Field Hospitals of the Army of the Potomac&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Stef -- Documents related to Prudence Crandall &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussion:&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Ballard Diary?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ashley -- Phillis Wheatley???&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rachel T. -- Margaret Fuller&amp;#039;s writings??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Michelle -- Emily Thornwell&amp;#039;s Etiquette book??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hannah -- Maria Mitchell&amp;#039;s papers?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011</id>
		<title>HIST 327-2011</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011"/>
				<updated>2011-10-19T22:09:52Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[HIST327_11 Questions]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Syllabus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Topics/collections already approved -- Remember that only one person can work on a given topic/person. [Don&amp;#039;t add your own topic here. I&amp;#039;ll add the topic after I&amp;#039;ve approved it. -- Dr. M]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clare -- Kate Dunlap Diary (online project) &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pam -- Judith Sargent Murray writings &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Grace -- Mercy Otis Warren&amp;#039;s writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sara -- Angelina Grimke&amp;#039;s letters/speeches &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Katie -- Frances Willard&amp;#039;s Diaries&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kayle -- Catherine Beecher&amp;#039;s materials&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Lydia Maria Child&amp;#039;s American Frugal Housewife &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rebecca -- Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s Hospital Sketches, My Contraband, and other writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matt -- Annie Denton Cridge&amp;#039;s Man&amp;#039;s Rights&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jennifer -- Women in CW Wisconsin (via several primary sources)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Catherine K.-- Belle Edmondson&amp;#039;s diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ellen -- Eliza Wilkinson&amp;#039;s letters in the Revolutionary War&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mary Beth -- Rose O&amp;#039;Neal Greenhow&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Emma -- Abigail Adams&amp;#039;s letters with John from a single year&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aqsa--Emma Florence LeConte diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Remy -- Catherine Sedgwick&amp;#039;s letters&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nicole -- (Anna Holstein)&amp;#039;s memoir Three Years in Field Hospitals of the Army of the Potomac&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Stef -- Documents related to Prudence Crandall &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussion:&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Ballard Diary?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ashley -- Phillis Wheatley???&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rachel T. -- Margaret Fuller&amp;#039;s writings??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Michelle -- Emily Thornwell&amp;#039;s Etiquette book??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hannah -- Maria Mitchell&amp;#039;s papers?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011</id>
		<title>HIST 327-2011</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011"/>
				<updated>2011-10-19T01:06:37Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[HIST327_11 Questions]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Syllabus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Topics/collections already approved -- Remember that only one person can work on a given topic/person. [Don&amp;#039;t add your own topic here. I&amp;#039;ll add the topic after I&amp;#039;ve approved it. -- Dr. M]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clare -- Kate Dunlap Diary (online project) &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pam -- Judith Sargent Murray writings &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Grace -- Mercy Otis Warren&amp;#039;s writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sara -- Angelina Grimke&amp;#039;s letters/speeches &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Katie -- Frances Willard&amp;#039;s Diaries&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kayle -- Catherine Beecher&amp;#039;s materials&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Lydia Maria Child&amp;#039;s American Frugal Housewife &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rebecca -- Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s Hospital Sketches, My Contraband, and other writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matt -- Annie Denton Cridge&amp;#039;s Man&amp;#039;s Rights&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jennifer -- Women in CW Wisconsin (via several primary sources)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Catherine K.-- Belle Edmondson&amp;#039;s diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ellen -- Eliza Wilkinson&amp;#039;s letters in the Revolutionary War&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mary Beth -- Rose O&amp;#039;Neal Greenhow&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Emma -- Abigail Adams&amp;#039;s letters with John from a single year&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aqsa--Emma Florence LeConte diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Remy -- Catherine Sedgwick&amp;#039;s letters&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussion:&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Ballard Diary?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ashley -- Phillis Wheatley???&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rachel T. -- Margaret Fuller&amp;#039;s writings??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Michelle -- Emily Thornwell&amp;#039;s Etiquette book??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Stef -- Antebellum slavery??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nicole -- Journals of CW nurses??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hannah -- Maria Mitchell&amp;#039;s papers?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011</id>
		<title>HIST 327-2011</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011"/>
				<updated>2011-10-14T02:53:10Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[HIST327_11 Questions]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Syllabus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Topics/collections already approved -- Remember that only one person can work on a given topic/person. [Don&amp;#039;t add your own topic here. I&amp;#039;ll add the topic after I&amp;#039;ve approved it. -- Dr. M]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clare -- Kate Dunlap Diary (online project) &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pam -- Judith Sargent Murray writings &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Grace -- Mercy Otis Warren&amp;#039;s writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sara -- Angelina Grimke&amp;#039;s letters/speeches &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Katie -- Frances Willard&amp;#039;s Diaries&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kayle -- Catherine Beecher&amp;#039;s materials&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Lydia Maria Child&amp;#039;s American Frugal Housewife &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rebecca -- Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s Hospital Sketches, My Contraband, and other writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matt -- Annie Denton Cridge&amp;#039;s Man&amp;#039;s Rights&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jennifer -- Women in CW Wisconsin (via several primary sources)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Catherine K.-- Belle Edmondson&amp;#039;s diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ellen -- Eliza Wilkinson&amp;#039;s letters in the Revolutionary War&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mary Beth -- Rose O&amp;#039;Neal Greenhow&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Emma -- Abigail Adams&amp;#039;s letters with John from a single year&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aqsa--Emma Florence LeConte diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussion:&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Ballard Diary?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ashley -- Phillis Wheatley???&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rachel T. -- Margaret Fuller&amp;#039;s writings??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Michelle -- Emily Thornwell&amp;#039;s Etiquette book??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Stef -- Antebellum slavery??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Remy -- Catherine Sedgwick??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nicole -- Journals of CW nurses??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hannah -- Maria Mitchell&amp;#039;s papers?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011</id>
		<title>HIST 327-2011</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011"/>
				<updated>2011-10-14T02:44:27Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[HIST327_11 Questions]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Syllabus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Topics/collections already approved -- Remember that only one person can work on a given topic/person. [Don&amp;#039;t add your own topic here. I&amp;#039;ll add the topic after I&amp;#039;ve approved it. -- Dr. M]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clare -- Kate Dunlap Diary (online project) &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pam -- Judith Sargent Murray writings &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Grace -- Mercy Otis Warren&amp;#039;s writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sara -- Angelina Grimke&amp;#039;s letters/speeches &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Katie -- Frances Willard&amp;#039;s Diaries&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kayle -- Catherine Beecher&amp;#039;s materials&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Lydia Maria Child&amp;#039;s American Frugal Housewife &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rebecca -- Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s Hospital Sketches, My Contraband, and other writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matt -- Annie Denton Cridge&amp;#039;s Man&amp;#039;s Rights&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jennifer -- Women in CW Wisconsin (via several primary sources)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Catherine K.-- Belle Edmondson&amp;#039;s diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ellen -- Eliza Wilkinson&amp;#039;s letters in the Revolutionary War&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mary Beth -- Rose O&amp;#039;Neal Greenhow&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Emma -- Abigail Adams&amp;#039;s letters with John from a single year&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussion:&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Ballard Diary?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Aqsa--Emma Florence LeConte diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ashley -- Phillis Wheatley???&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rachel T. -- Margaret Fuller&amp;#039;s writings??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Michelle -- Emily Thornwell&amp;#039;s Etiquette book??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Stef -- Antebellum slavery??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Remy -- Catherine Sedgwick??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nicole -- Journals of CW nurses??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hannah -- Maria Mitchell&amp;#039;s papers?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

	<entry>
		<id>https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011</id>
		<title>HIST 327-2011</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=HIST_327-2011"/>
				<updated>2011-10-13T19:25:01Z</updated>
		
		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jmcclurk: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[HIST327_11 Questions]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Syllabus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Topics/collections already approved -- Remember that only one person can work on a given topic/person. [Don&amp;#039;t add your own topic here. I&amp;#039;ll add the topic after I&amp;#039;ve approved it. -- Dr. M]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Clare -- Kate Dunlap Diary (online project) &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Pam -- Judith Sargent Murray writings &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Grace -- Mercy Otis Warren&amp;#039;s writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Sara -- Angelina Grimke&amp;#039;s letters/speeches &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Katie -- Frances Willard&amp;#039;s Diaries&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Kayle -- Catherine Beecher&amp;#039;s materials&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Lydia Maria Child&amp;#039;s American Frugal Housewife &amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rebecca -- Louisa May Alcott&amp;#039;s Hospital Sketches, My Contraband, and other writings&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Matt -- Annie Denton Cridge&amp;#039;s Man&amp;#039;s Rights&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Jennifer -- Women in CW Wisconsin (via several primary sources)&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Catherine K.-- Belle Edmondson&amp;#039;s diary&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ellen -- Eliza Wilkinson&amp;#039;s letters in the Revolutionary War&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mary Beth -- Rose O&amp;#039;Neal Greenhow&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In discussion:&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Heather -- Ballard Diary?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Emma -- Abigail Adams???/Mary Jemison??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Ashley -- Phillis Wheatley???&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Rachel T. -- Margaret Fuller&amp;#039;s writings??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Michelle -- Emily Thornwell&amp;#039;s Etiquette book??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Stef -- Antebellum slavery??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Remy -- Catherine Sedgwick??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Nicole -- Journals of CW nurses??&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Hannah -- Maria Mitchell&amp;#039;s papers?&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jmcclurk</name></author>	</entry>

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