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Deprecated: header(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($response_code) of type int is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 38 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=AJLawrenceMcClurken Wiki - User contributions [en]2026-09-18T23:14:13ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.22.0https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_5_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 5 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-08T04:08:03Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>The soldiers who wrote pieces for magazines such as the ''Confederate Veteran'' included a lot of stories or war memories that related to or tied into reconciliation. Blight even stated that reconciliation and fraternalism dominated a lot of the ex-soldiers memories. Since these stories and memories were all written down, I was wondering if you think the idea for reconciliation, at least among the soldiers, would have come as quickly if the veterans had never received the opportunity to write for the magazines? -Avanness<br />
<br />
I was a little surprised to read repeatedly how proponents of the Lost Cause believed and stated that slavery was not the cause of the Civil War. They argued that secession from the Union was the main cause for the South's participation in the war. People who believed in the Lost Cause even ended up rejecting people like John Mosby who was against reunion and was adamant about claiming slavery was the cause of the war. Why do you think this was? Do you think the South was really just trying to save their image or were they really ready for reconciliation with the North? -Avanness<br />
<br />
I was also surprised to see how persistent Lost Causers advocated that the war had been about secession, not slavery. Blight talks about how the Lost Cause idea itself transformed, and race was the most commonly left out. What advantages did this have for Southerners and reconciliation? How do you think memory would have changed if race and slavery had been incorporated into the Lost Cause? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
In Chapter 6, most of the veterans’ recollections and assessments of battle and the war in general became popular about twenty years after the war. Blight mentions that for many of the soldiers, dwelling on some of the raw memories in the years just following the war was simply too painful, but then later in the chapter suggests some other reasons that celebrating the valor of the soldiers gained common appreciation across sections. What caused the nationwide decline in race relations in the last decades of the century? – Erin B.<br />
<br />
Blight quotes Robert S. Dabney on pg 263 as having written that "Yankees would ultimately meet their just fate...'in the day of their calamity, in pages of impartial history, and in the Day of Judgment.'" Harsh words. Do you think that religion played a larger role in understanding the effects of the war in South than in the North? What kind of a role did it play in South? -- Erin B.<br />
<br />
Blight talks extensively about soldiers memories in ''Century'' Magazine. Most of those memories, however, came from famous generals, not "many ordinary voices" (179). What do you think the impact of those memories was on society and what do you think was lost from the recollections that were omitted from the issues? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Blight talked how Civil War veterans wanted to pass along the virtues of the soldiers down to the next generation. Do you think this motivated more veterans to write about their war experience and join memorialization organizations? - MK<br />
<br />
I found Blight's description of Civil War memory as a national pastime very interesting. What were other people's reaction to this statement? -MK<br />
<br />
"The former soldiers were the living reminders that the current society, however drab and materialistic, had evolved out of a more heroic time." This quote says very clearly something that we have discussed a great deal, and it also gives us an idea of how quickly the times changed from the heroic romanticized era to a more common time. How often did these events involving the civil war veterans occur? AJ L.</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_4_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 4 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-02-03T08:01:51Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>The memories of John Brown and Heyward Shepherd have been co-opted by different groups over the years, serving purposes that helped promote those different ideals according to the social climate of the times. All in all, though, it seems that a large part of these ideals haven’t changed as much as one might think. In particular, I was extremely surprised to hear that the UDC would still embrace the myths of the faithful slave and mammy as recently as the 1990s. How would these interpretations of an outlawed society still serve these groups 150 years later? –Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
Do you think a symbol such as the John Brown Fort has a rightful place among the memorialization of the Civil War? Do you think that since white people had thier own monuments African Americans were entitled to also have something that could be viewed as a "symbol of their abolitionist struggle?" (pg. 65) -Avanness<br />
<br />
Shackel discusses the lack of interpretation of the John Brown Fort, and how it is left to the individual park interpreters. Lacking the experience of actually going to the fort, what are the ways in which the interpretation of the John Brown Fort may be improved? -DRadtke<br />
<br />
How do you think ex African American Union soldiers, newly freed black people, and black people in general during the late 1800s felt about the Shaw Memorial? Especially since it was supposed to be honoring a group of black soldiers yet was named only after their white leader and hardly even featured the black soldiers? Why do you think people didn't question it sooner? Do you think they were happy just to be included at all? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Is it the location or the building that is revered by visitors? The John Brown Fort was dismantled and rebuilt in several different places. Each time bricks would be stolen by scavengers so that the Fort is now made up of mostly new bricks rather than the ones in the fort at the time of John Brown’s raid. I feel as if the specialness is kind of ruined if the historic building is simply a reproduction or even moved to a different location. –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
The Heyward Shepherd memorial became a symbol of the Lost Cause and the embodiment of the former southern class system, ie. slaves subordinate to the Southern whites. Why do you think groups like the UDC and SCV were motivated and persistent in commemorating/displaying a monument of this particular moment in Civil War history? How do you think confederate veterans would have felt about this monument? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
John Brown's Fort exchanged many hands during its movement from West Virginia, to Chicago and back to West Virginia. What role do you think this movement and reassembling of the fort did to the memory of the event? Also, the fort was symbolic for African Americans as a symbol of their struggle for freedom and equality. Do think this was lost at all during its various moves and rebuilding? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Some members of the African American committee who discussed updating the Shaw memorial were against the addition of the names of the individual members of the regiment, saying that their absence would serve as a "reminder of the racial prejudice that had characterized the late 19th century" (137), something that apparently was not suggested concerning the recently ongoing controversy surrounding the Shepherd memorial. Is there anything different about these two circumstances or monuments? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
The introduction of African American troops troops into the Civil War was influential in changing the tide of the war onto the Union possessing the advantage but despite this there is a lack of Civil War monuments dedicated to African Americans. Why were there so few Civil War monuments dedicated to African Americans erected?- Nick<br />
<br />
What did Shaw mean to northerners? Why would a memorial be built for him, and why would he be so celebrated even during a time when north and south were focused on rreconciliation instead of the war's moral cause, when any emancipationist motivation for the war was being downplayed? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Is it better to leave monuments as they were originally erected in order to preserve the history of "memory" or should monuments be updated in order to be more inclusive and appropriate?- aaskins<br />
<br />
This reading has illustrated among many things, that blacks have not been paid due homage with monuments. How else (not monuments) has their memory been preserved and honored?- aaskins<br />
<br />
We tend to view the Shaw story as one about a heroic act (starting an African American regiment) amid a sea of racial and sectional tensions. Is this reputation deserved? We have become accustomed to cynicism regarding the motives of others in the study of Civil War memory. Is this one of the few that is cut-and-dry? -DRadtke<br />
<br />
<br />
Heyward Shepard was a /freeman/ when he was killed, why was his death used to support the Faithful Slave monument at Harper’s Ferry? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
How successful is the author in presenting the differing views of Saint-Gaudens Shaw Memorial? What opinion have you formed of the memorial? -- R.King<br />
<br />
Do the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the Sons of Confederate Veterans truly believe their own rhetoric? -- R.King<br />
<br />
On page 107 the author quotes Viginia H. Sollers-Hoffmaster of the UDC, "I cannot imagine how long it will take to educate so-called historians that one cannot, I repeat, cannot re-write or alter history." Isn't that what the UDC and SCV are all about? Rewriting history to justify their lost cause? -- R.King <br />
<br />
On page 59 the the author talks about the Baltimore & Ohio Railroads plans to move their railroad tracks and that they would them cut through the John Brown's Fort, was this decision made because they saw little value in preserving it? Why would they then a year later offer to move it back to Harpers Ferry from Chicago and rebuild it near it's original site? --R. King<br />
<br />
The moving of the John Brown fort all around the country reminds me of the story of Davis and Lincoln’s log cabins. Like the John Brown fort they to were bought and sold. They also were put on display and shown in different parts of the country. They were disassembled and put together so many times that the logs got mixed up. Both cabins are mixed together now. Why has Harper Ferry become the Colonial Williamsburg of Civil War sites? Logan T<br />
<br />
Why is the 54th Massachusetts regiment the only black regiment remembered when talking about the Civil War? Like the book said there were other black regiments before the 54th. There were black regiments making assaults against Port Hudson just as heroic in Louisiana around the same time. Why have we chosen to remember the 54th incorrectly? The 54th was made up entirely of free blacks that had never been slaves. The War department did not trust ex slaves as soldiers because of an irrational fear that slaves would not fight against there owners and could be convinced by them to quit the army. The 54th was made of smart men that had a literacy rate higher than most confederate regiments. Why has this part of the 54th memory been forgotten? Logan T<br />
<br />
Is Shackel's description of the John Brown Fort as a civil war memorial correct? It was certainly an abolitionist monument and occured around the same time but the even was two years too early for it to have occured during the civil war and, aside from being a rallying point for northern troops, wasn't a important place during the war. AJ L.<br />
<br />
On pg 107, I find the comment by Virginia H. Sollers-Hoffmaster of the UDC very amusing. She comments that she is outraged that the monument dedicated to Heyward Shepherd is covered at that moment in time and how questioned how long it would take historians to realize they couldn't simply rewrite history (referring to the argument of what should be done with the Monument), however the monument itself was essentially an attempt to rewrite history by the Confederate veterans societies by trying to cast slavery in the south in a different light than what it was truly like. AJ L.</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_4_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 4 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-02-03T07:47:01Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>The memories of John Brown and Heyward Shepherd have been co-opted by different groups over the years, serving purposes that helped promote those different ideals according to the social climate of the times. All in all, though, it seems that a large part of these ideals haven’t changed as much as one might think. In particular, I was extremely surprised to hear that the UDC would still embrace the myths of the faithful slave and mammy as recently as the 1990s. How would these interpretations of an outlawed society still serve these groups 150 years later? –Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
Do you think a symbol such as the John Brown Fort has a rightful place among the memorialization of the Civil War? Do you think that since white people had thier own monuments African Americans were entitled to also have something that could be viewed as a "symbol of their abolitionist struggle?" (pg. 65) -Avanness<br />
<br />
Shackel discusses the lack of interpretation of the John Brown Fort, and how it is left to the individual park interpreters. Lacking the experience of actually going to the fort, what are the ways in which the interpretation of the John Brown Fort may be improved? -DRadtke<br />
<br />
How do you think ex African American Union soldiers, newly freed black people, and black people in general during the late 1800s felt about the Shaw Memorial? Especially since it was supposed to be honoring a group of black soldiers yet was named only after their white leader and hardly even featured the black soldiers? Why do you think people didn't question it sooner? Do you think they were happy just to be included at all? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Is it the location or the building that is revered by visitors? The John Brown Fort was dismantled and rebuilt in several different places. Each time bricks would be stolen by scavengers so that the Fort is now made up of mostly new bricks rather than the ones in the fort at the time of John Brown’s raid. I feel as if the specialness is kind of ruined if the historic building is simply a reproduction or even moved to a different location. –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
The Heyward Shepherd memorial became a symbol of the Lost Cause and the embodiment of the former southern class system, ie. slaves subordinate to the Southern whites. Why do you think groups like the UDC and SCV were motivated and persistent in commemorating/displaying a monument of this particular moment in Civil War history? How do you think confederate veterans would have felt about this monument? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
John Brown's Fort exchanged many hands during its movement from West Virginia, to Chicago and back to West Virginia. What role do you think this movement and reassembling of the fort did to the memory of the event? Also, the fort was symbolic for African Americans as a symbol of their struggle for freedom and equality. Do think this was lost at all during its various moves and rebuilding? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Some members of the African American committee who discussed updating the Shaw memorial were against the addition of the names of the individual members of the regiment, saying that their absence would serve as a "reminder of the racial prejudice that had characterized the late 19th century" (137), something that apparently was not suggested concerning the recently ongoing controversy surrounding the Shepherd memorial. Is there anything different about these two circumstances or monuments? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
The introduction of African American troops troops into the Civil War was influential in changing the tide of the war onto the Union possessing the advantage but despite this there is a lack of Civil War monuments dedicated to African Americans. Why were there so few Civil War monuments dedicated to African Americans erected?- Nick<br />
<br />
What did Shaw mean to northerners? Why would a memorial be built for him, and why would he be so celebrated even during a time when north and south were focused on rreconciliation instead of the war's moral cause, when any emancipationist motivation for the war was being downplayed? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Is it better to leave monuments as they were originally erected in order to preserve the history of "memory" or should monuments be updated in order to be more inclusive and appropriate?- aaskins<br />
<br />
This reading has illustrated among many things, that blacks have not been paid due homage with monuments. How else (not monuments) has their memory been preserved and honored?- aaskins<br />
<br />
We tend to view the Shaw story as one about a heroic act (starting an African American regiment) amid a sea of racial and sectional tensions. Is this reputation deserved? We have become accustomed to cynicism regarding the motives of others in the study of Civil War memory. Is this one of the few that is cut-and-dry? -DRadtke<br />
<br />
<br />
Heyward Shepard was a /freeman/ when he was killed, why was his death used to support the Faithful Slave monument at Harper’s Ferry? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
How successful is the author in presenting the differing views of Saint-Gaudens Shaw Memorial? What opinion have you formed of the memorial? -- R.King<br />
<br />
Do the United Daughters of the Confederacy and the Sons of Confederate Veterans truly believe their own rhetoric? -- R.King<br />
<br />
On page 107 the author quotes Viginia H. Sollers-Hoffmaster of the UDC, "I cannot imagine how long it will take to educate so-called historians that one cannot, I repeat, cannot re-write or alter history." Isn't that what the UDC and SCV are all about? Rewriting history to justify their lost cause? -- R.King <br />
<br />
On page 59 the the author talks about the Baltimore & Ohio Railroads plans to move their railroad tracks and that they would them cut through the John Brown's Fort, was this decision made because they saw little value in preserving it? Why would they then a year later offer to move it back to Harpers Ferry from Chicago and rebuild it near it's original site? --R. King<br />
<br />
The moving of the John Brown fort all around the country reminds me of the story of Davis and Lincoln’s log cabins. Like the John Brown fort they to were bought and sold. They also were put on display and shown in different parts of the country. They were disassembled and put together so many times that the logs got mixed up. Both cabins are mixed together now. Why has Harper Ferry become the Colonial Williamsburg of Civil War sites? Logan T<br />
<br />
Why is the 54th Massachusetts regiment the only black regiment remembered when talking about the Civil War? Like the book said there were other black regiments before the 54th. There were black regiments making assaults against Port Hudson just as heroic in Louisiana around the same time. Why have we chosen to remember the 54th incorrectly? The 54th was made up entirely of free blacks that had never been slaves. The War department did not trust ex slaves as soldiers because of an irrational fear that slaves would not fight against there owners and could be convinced by them to quit the army. The 54th was made of smart men that had a literacy rate higher than most confederate regiments. Why has this part of the 54th memory been forgotten? Logan T<br />
<br />
Is Shackel's description of the John Brown Fort as a civil war memorial correct? It was certainly an abolitionist monument and occured around the same time but the even was two years too early for it to have occured during the civil war and, aside from being a rallying point for northern troops, wasn't a important place during the war. AJ L.</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_4_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 4 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-01T05:08:44Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>Although I'm hesitant to say that the women in Augusta gained power through the memorial ceremonies and rituals, it certainly seems true that they gained potency and presence. Were these women, and others around the former Confederacy, simply made symbols, or was this part of a greater process by which women gained political and social power? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
How did the "divorce" of the Confederate cause from the Confederate dead result in the new understanding of both? Did this assist in a new, Christianized understanding of the Confederate dead? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
Throughout the reading I noticed that there was a huge focus on domesticity and ex-Confederate soldiers regaining the role of protecting their dependents and trying to become heads of households again. The end of the reading even said that the Southern Confederate men even had their own victory because they were chivalrous and maintained these kinds of values throughout the war even when dealing with the Union and Northern women. I'd never really heard of this type of rhetoric after the war among the South and ex-Confederates. Did many people believe the South had some type of victory in the end and during reconstruction even outside of the memorial associations or was this specifically regarding the Ladies' Memorial Association, the Confederate Survivor's Association and others like it? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
I think it is interesting that even though a lot of memorial associations were started by women people, typically men, every so often had issues with women running organizations like this in the public sphere. Even Tillet, a professor, proclaimed that he liked that women were no longer helpless like before but he still did not want to see them involved in wage labor. Did many men continue to be unhappy about women and their work in these organizations because they set them outside the domestic sphere? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Was the role of women in the memorializing of the Confederate dead an empowering one? Or was it an affirmation of their role as a domestic caretaker in a time when there was a high degree of anxiety about the maintenence of pre-war social norms? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Although women seemed to play a large role in the memorializaion of the Confederate dead, they still tried to remain subordinate to men. And in some cases, they even allowed men to play a role in the organization itself (discussed on page 189). How do you think this affected the advancement of women in the postwar society and did this limit their public role? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
The Confederate Survivors Association tried to preserve their memory, and in doing so, their histories of the Civil War "were based on a selective remembering of wartime events" (213). How do you think this "selective remembering" affected the memory of the war in the South? Also, in their reconstruction of certain events, like Sherman's march, memories shifted to make the North seem less "manly." What role do these memories play in the history of the memory of the war? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I found the information on page 163 describing how the South reconciled about the Civil War very interesting. The author states that sectional reconciliation was based on the abandonment of the causes of the war and focused instead on the common sacrifices of the individual solider, what ever his political affiliation, what ever his cause. We have tought about this a lot in class how Civil War memory became more about remembering the sacrifices of the soldiers instead of what they fought off. Did this reconciliation bring about as the other says the death of the Confederate cause? -Nick<br />
<br />
White talks about the silence and denial of slavery as a cause of the war, is this the true "lost cause"? -- R. King<br />
<br />
How did the memorialization of the dead transition into the conservation of the southern identity? -- R. King<br />
<br />
Why is it "woman's privilege" to raise up Civil War monuments (as Evans was quoted as saying in his memorial day speech)? Why do men only lay the cornerstone for the monuments?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
Did anyone else find Evans' speech similar to Pericles' funerary oration in its description of women and their post-war roles?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
Is it odd or unexpected that women became the principal advocates for "memory preservation" in the south (as demonstrated in Augusta) through the formations of female memorial groups? - Aaskins<br />
<br />
Do you agree with Evans' assertion that southerners were forced to "divorce" themselves from the Confederate cause while still embracing the Confederate dead? Or would you take Blight's approach and argue that the image of the "noble dead" served as an outlet for the frustrations stemming from defeat? DRadtke<br />
<br />
Do we see similar issues regarding the Fredericksburg City Cemetery arising shortly after the war? Was the expansion of the cemetery to include Confederate dead also an effort to "guarantee that their version of the story would outlast them and even their own families"? DRadtke<br />
<br />
No war the U.S. has taken part in since the Civil War has been as highly romanticized, or possibly even remotely romanticized, because of changing perspectives. Do you think it is because of these Memorial Day celebrations, especially the speeches that reach out to the people left behind while others went off to "win glory", had a large part in this? Or was it simply a change that occurred over time throughout the U.S.? - AJ L.</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_4_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 4 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-01T05:08:18Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>Although I'm hesitant to say that the women in Augusta gained power through the memorial ceremonies and rituals, it certainly seems true that they gained potency and presence. Were these women, and others around the former Confederacy, simply made symbols, or was this part of a greater process by which women gained political and social power? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
How did the "divorce" of the Confederate cause from the Confederate dead result in the new understanding of both? Did this assist in a new, Christianized understanding of the Confederate dead? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
Throughout the reading I noticed that there was a huge focus on domesticity and ex-Confederate soldiers regaining the role of protecting their dependents and trying to become heads of households again. The end of the reading even said that the Southern Confederate men even had their own victory because they were chivalrous and maintained these kinds of values throughout the war even when dealing with the Union and Northern women. I'd never really heard of this type of rhetoric after the war among the South and ex-Confederates. Did many people believe the South had some type of victory in the end and during reconstruction even outside of the memorial associations or was this specifically regarding the Ladies' Memorial Association, the Confederate Survivor's Association and others like it? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
I think it is interesting that even though a lot of memorial associations were started by women people, typically men, every so often had issues with women running organizations like this in the public sphere. Even Tillet, a professor, proclaimed that he liked that women were no longer helpless like before but he still did not want to see them involved in wage labor. Did many men continue to be unhappy about women and their work in these organizations because they set them outside the domestic sphere? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Was the role of women in the memorializing of the Confederate dead an empowering one? Or was it an affirmation of their role as a domestic caretaker in a time when there was a high degree of anxiety about the maintenence of pre-war social norms? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Although women seemed to play a large role in the memorializaion of the Confederate dead, they still tried to remain subordinate to men. And in some cases, they even allowed men to play a role in the organization itself (discussed on page 189). How do you think this affected the advancement of women in the postwar society and did this limit their public role? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
The Confederate Survivors Association tried to preserve their memory, and in doing so, their histories of the Civil War "were based on a selective remembering of wartime events" (213). How do you think this "selective remembering" affected the memory of the war in the South? Also, in their reconstruction of certain events, like Sherman's march, memories shifted to make the North seem less "manly." What role do these memories play in the history of the memory of the war? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I found the information on page 163 describing how the South reconciled about the Civil War very interesting. The author states that sectional reconciliation was based on the abandonment of the causes of the war and focused instead on the common sacrifices of the individual solider, what ever his political affiliation, what ever his cause. We have tought about this a lot in class how Civil War memory became more about remembering the sacrifices of the soldiers instead of what they fought off. Did this reconciliation bring about as the other says the death of the Confederate cause? -Nick<br />
<br />
White talks about the silence and denial of slavery as a cause of the war, is this the true "lost cause"? -- R. King<br />
<br />
How did the memorialization of the dead transition into the conservation of the southern identity? -- R. King<br />
<br />
Why is it "woman's privilege" to raise up Civil War monuments (as Evans was quoted as saying in his memorial day speech)? Why do men only lay the cornerstone for the monuments?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
Did anyone else find Evans' speech similar to Pericles' funerary oration in its description of women and their post-war roles?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
Is it odd or unexpected that women became the principal advocates for "memory preservation" in the south (as demonstrated in Augusta) through the formations of female memorial groups? - Aaskins<br />
<br />
Do you agree with Evans' assertion that southerners were forced to "divorce" themselves from the Confederate cause while still embracing the Confederate dead? Or would you take Blight's approach and argue that the image of the "noble dead" served as an outlet for the frustrations stemming from defeat? DRadtke<br />
<br />
Do we see similar issues regarding the Fredericksburg City Cemetery arising shortly after the war? Was the expansion of the cemetery to include Confederate dead also an effort to "guarantee that their version of the story would outlast them and even their own families"? DRadtke<br />
<br />
No war the U.S. has taken part in since the Civil War has been as highly romanticized, or possibly even remotely romanticized, because of changing perspectives. Do you think it is because of these Memorial Day celebrations, especially the speeches that reach out to the people left behind while others went off to "win glory", had a large part in this? Or was it simply a change that occurred over time throughout the U.S.</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_3_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 3 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-01-25T07:41:44Z<p>AJLawrence: /* Blight */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Overarching questions/Debate topics ==<br />
I think that an important concept that needs to be discussed in class is if you believe the Union could have done more to prevent violence committed against African Americans? Throughout the readings it seems that the Union tried to prevent violent acts committed by the KKK but that they could have done a lot more to stop the violence committed in the South.-Nick<br />
<br />
Why do you think the KKK Hearings were considered enough? Once they were over it seems that the problem was no longer important enough to pay attention to. Does this go to the core of prejudice in this country? --R.King<br />
<br />
== Trelease ==<br />
<br />
Were any of the Senators/Representatives in the KKK Hearings from the South? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
“Heretofore such men had served their masters only in the fields; now they would do not less faithful service at the polls.” As Trelease points out, “Nowhere did white underestimation of negro intelligence show itself more clearly.” While this opinion was not held the majority of white Southerners, it does demonstrate the paternalistic impulse left over from slavery. What were some of the ways in which vigilantism like the KKK was rationalized alongside a belief in a childlike dependence by the former slaves? – Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 5 Trealease writes about the belief that Emancipation increased the Southern white rape complex because freedom presumably stimulated the Negro's innate passion for white women and removed external restrains. What are your thoughts about this supreme taboo that was held by Southern whites?- Nick<br />
<br />
As Trelease states in the introduction, blacks were never advocating for supremacy of whites, simply equality. If whites saw blacks as incapable of taking care of their own wellbeing without a slavemaster, why were many so whites afraid of blacks rise to equality and feel the need maintain control over them? - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
According to Trelease, whites during Reconstruction were afraid of a violent black uprising. In some cases, using this fear as a basis, they violently searched the houses of many of the black community members. Do you think whites were actually scared of this type of uprising, even though they were often the majority and better armed, or was it just another excuse to assert their authority? - Angie<br />
<br />
Angie, this is a question I've always asked when thinking about the slave rebellions, the Reconstruction racism, and in this case, the KKK. The answer I always came to is "Yes." They say there is often nothing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose who has found something worth fighting for, and that definitely would seem to be the case, at least in the perception of the southern whites. --Cash<br />
<br />
Why was the Klan made up largely of agrarian southern whites? Was this not a mindset held by the aristocracy as well? --Cash<br />
<br />
From the article, it seems to me that the failure of Radical Reconstruction can be seen as a combined effort of the active protests of the southern whites (overwhelmingly Democratic), and the more passive limiting of the federal government on the part of the Republicans. Even after four years of Civil War, was the country truly ready for the changes it brought about?<br />
<br />
== Fahs/Waugh, "Anna Dickinson" ==<br />
<br />
Many men believed that women belonged in the home and not in politics, yet here was Dickinson giving political lectures and being asked by candidates to support them in her speeches (shown in Fahs and Wah’s reading when Greeley and Wilson were trying to “lure her into the campaign. Pg167) Dickinson might not have been lecturing for women’s suffrage by why wasn’t she used as an example that women did have the mind to understand politics and be allowed to vote? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
Really a bummer of an ending. When reading about the political atmosphere/discussion from this period, you almost have to expect high levels of partisan and sectional loyalties that frame all arguments and contribute to the legacy of bitterness one associates with Reconstruction – which makes reading about Dickinson and the nomination of Greeley by the Democrats all the more interesting and complicating. What could have made Dickinson hesitant to align herself more with the biggest names in women’s suffrage? –Erin B.<br />
<br />
"Dickinson, like Grant, was a veteran of the Civil War." Do you think that because the so much of the population considered themselves to be veterans, regardless if they actually fought in the war itself, helped Dickinson use Civil War memory to her advantage through her speeches? - MK<br />
<br />
Dickinson seemed to be well received by her audiences. How often did women, like Dickinson, give speeches of this caliber, and did they usually receive the same attention (whether positive or negative)? Also, both parties were persistent in getting Dickinson to work for their campaigns. Why do you think they chose to solicit her specifically? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought it was interesting how I had never heard of Anna Dickinson before yet she seemed to be a very popular speaker and lecturer at the time. She was associated with the group of people who put the issue of women suffrage aside to take on the issue of abolition. Do you think this is a reason she has not had her name mentioned as much as let's say Susan B. Anthony who continued to take on women's rights at the time? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Why did history overlook this woman? -- R. King<br />
<br />
Dickinson grappled with the desire to protect and aid the “freedpeople” versus the desire to move on from the war. Dickinson spoke for the Liberal Democrats by saying that if the war was really over, as it should be, then there should be no need for a war hero such as Grant to be president and that "freedpeople" SHOULD be already treated as equal citizens. (p. 171) Do you think Dickinson really felt that the war was over? Did Dickinson and other Liberal Republicans feel that moving on from the war meant ceasing all Reconstruction aid to African Americans? - Angie<br />
<br />
== Blight ==<br />
<br />
Blight talks about the healing process of the nation was on the South's terms. Do you think he is fair in his assessment? -MK<br />
<br />
On page 117 Blight states "Klan violence against blacks in the Reconstruction South succeeded especially in its uses of fear." What role do you think fear plays in the recollection of black memory from this period? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
Blight states a couple of times that Northerners did not feel ready to make reconstruction=reconciliation. They believed they shouldn't have to completely forgive and forget the South and the Civil War. Do you think the Northerners who shared this opinion were being fair to the South? Were their opinions part of the reason reconstruction wasn't successful right from the beginning? -Avanness<br />
<br />
On page 111 Blight makes the following statement; "In Southern lore, in formal history, and eventually in popular culture, the Klan, as saviors of Southern society, racial order, and white womanhood attained a heroic image in American memory..." I can accept the "Southern lore" aspect and if the "formal history" was one written for a Southern audience I can accept that, but to say that the Klan were "heroic" in the context of the entire nation I have serious disagreements with Mr. Blight. I find it hard to believe that Blight believes it either, since following this statement he provides several pages of eyewitness accounts refuting the heroic nature of the Klan. Why would Blight make such a statement to begin with? -- R. King<br />
<br />
Blight again makes a statement on page 123 that is confusing to say the least, "Although Grant had stood up to the Klan and used federal authority to put it put of business in the South..." Was the Klan really put out of business? --R.King<br />
<br />
What comparisons can be drawn between the election of 1872 and today? On page 125, Blight suggests that, "for many white Southerners it made good sense to suspend the function of the Democratic Party for an election, to join all apparent anti-Grant, anti-corruption sentiment as a means of achieving their goals of local autonomy and white supremacy." Can it be said that these themes are manifesting themselves again?- DRadtke<br />
<br />
To what degree was the democratic party, and the ex-Confederates in general, successful in asserting that they were the ones who had been wronged in the civil war? And how was the question of who won the Civil War up for debate, as blight states when he says that, "the enduring political character of Civil War memory thrived on this sort of contest over just who had won the war and what had been its verdict". AJ L.<br />
<br />
How effective of a Role did black males play in Reconstruction politics, aside form the example of Frederick Douglas? And how strong of a political force were they? AJ L.</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_2_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 2 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-01-18T09:01:40Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>== McPherson, What They Fought For, ==<br />
<br />
In McPherson's "What They Fought For," the issue of slavery was left out in the majority of the letters on both the Union and Confederate sides (pg. 49). However, many soldiers understood the War as fundamentally about slavery instead of reunion after the Emancipation Proclamation. Do you think the absence of slavery in the letters affected the soldiers' memories? --MK Napier <br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson discusses the both the North and the South's reasons for fighting and through his sampling of letters, he was able to draw some parallels between the two. Both sides seemed to connect one of their reasons for fighting to the American Revolution and upholding a sense of liberty. Do you think this connection to the American Revolution and the Civil War is important? Did many soldiers experience similar sentiments, not just the ones from McPherson's sampling? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson sampling techniques are to say the least "interesting" and at worst suspect. He has taken a very unbalanced approach when it comes to confederate letters and diaries yet takes a more balanced approach with the northern articles. Is he taking Telsen's approach of constructing a history to fit his needs or is it something more benign? -- R.King<br />
<br />
McPherson repeated over and over again about how the Confederate soldiers expected to win, that it would be better to die for the cause, and he even used the term "subjugated" to refer to losing the war to be a fate worse than death. Later on in the reading he also used the term "glorious cause." I wonder how words like this that are written in soldiers' diaries and read throughout primary sources shape the way in which people think of the Confederacy, their passion, and their reasons for their involvement in the war? -Avanness<br />
<br />
McPherson suggests that, based on his sample of journal entries, Confederate soldiers seemed largely oblivious to the irony of their references to slavery and freedom when referring to the "tyranny" of the Yankees, while suggesting that their Revolution-era counterparts were typically appreciative of this “paradox” (50-51). Is this demonstrative of a shift in culture in the South since the American Revolution or is it just an example of how patriotism is written about in war-time journal entries? -Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson throughout the section on "Holy Cause of Liberty and Independence" describes the Confederacy's motivation in fighting and discusses that the defense of their homeland was one of their chief motivations. Defending their homeland from the Union seemed to greatly inspire the Confederacy and in response to their fighting spirit a sergeant from Illinois wrote that the Confederates " fight Devils in Tophet because the were fighting to keep an enemy out of their own neighborhood and their own property" (19). An officer also from Illinois summarized the Confederacy's war motivation fairly well by stating " they are fighting from different motives than us. We are fighting for the Union... a high and noble sentiment but after all only a sentiment. They are fighting for independence and are animated by passion and hatred against invaders ... it makes no reason whether their cause is just or not. Do you agree with this statement that it made no difference if the Confederacy's cause was just or not?- Nick J.<br />
<br />
McPherson's article outlines the various motives for fighting, and the particular confederate and union attitudes regarding each other. One chapter outlined the "confederate bloodlust" at seeing dead yankees, a particularly striking chapter, but there was no parallel description of Yankee point-of-view as particularly morbid. Why would the south be more inclined to emphasize in correspondence home this morbid satisfaction? Or is this a result of historiographical error or bias?- A. Askins<br />
<br />
"What They Fought For" posits that civil war soldiers were far more idealistic than previously assumed. However, a letter does not describe a soldier's thoughts, but what they put down on paper. In any war the two may not be the same thing, though they certainly could be. Is there a difference in the two, or are the views in these letters, as McPherson suggests, largely accurate portraits of soldiers' opinions on the war? Also, it should be noted that the view in general society was that war in general was honorable and glorious, which cannot be said for the first world war or those after it. Could this have affected how a soldier chose to describe the war? -GStan.<br />
<br />
As mentioned before in McPherson’s piece both the Union soldiers and the Confederates compared themselves to the men who fought in the Revolutionary War. In your opinion, did one side have a stronger argument in comparing themselves to their forefathers? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Why, as McPherson states at the end of page 21, did the Texan troops appear to be more candid about the massacring of Yankee soldiers when they were the furthest away from a great deal of the fighting, geographically?-AJ L. <br />
<br />
== Remembering Slavery ==<br />
<br />
In ''Remembering Slavery'', many of the slaves mention that did not understand the meaning of 'freedom'. For example, on page 215, a salve girl remarks, "I didn't know what 'free' meant, and I askes Mrs. Harris if I was free." I'd imagine that many slaves did not understand this concept as well, but my question is, how many of them asked their slaveholder what the meaning of free was and got a truthful answer? Were the slaveholders able to exploit their slaves further even after the Civil War ended simply because many did not understand what it meant to be free? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On page 240-241 of the Remembering Slavery article, said that some freed slaves were sad that they were free after the war partially because the Yankee soldiers had destroyed food and livestock in the regions in which they lived. Since earlier accounts had talked about the celebrations of the soldiers coming to town (pg. 234), does this mean that the “collective” memory of freed slaves is actually quite different than individual memories? -Angie<br />
<br />
One of the things that struck me about so many of these narratives was the ways in which the slaves discussed their normal, everyday activities, while simultaneously notions of freedom. Even those for whom the concept of freedom was impossibly foreign quickly came to understand the implications of the arrival of the Union Army. How much did slaves of the Deep South know about the War, both before and during? Did George Kye, a wagon driver serving in the Confederate Army in the place of his master, acknowledge the purpose of the War before being set free?- D. Radtke<br />
<br />
== Blight, ''Race and Reunion'' ==<br />
<br />
In ''Race and Reunion'' Blight talks about themes of rebirth, reunion, and reconciliation of the nation at the end of the Civil War. Do you think that the southern memory of the Civil War (in particular the Lost Cause, Jim Crow Laws, etc.) were an attempt to stop the "rebirth" of the nation?--MK Napier<br />
<br />
Why did the promoters of the 1913 Gettysburg reunion discourage discussion of the causes of the war? Was it because it would have shown the war to be a Union failure in light of the countries acceptance of Jim Crow? -- R.King<br />
<br />
<br />
In Blight's reading and throughout "Remembering Slavery," the idea of a Black Civil War memory is mentioned. I wonder how important you think their memories about Civil War are in the way we have shaped the Civil War in our memory today? Do you think they are more important than Union or Confederate soldiers' memories or that many of their memories have been lost over time due to their slave status? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
In Race and Reunion, Blight discusses Walt Whitman’s writing about his experiences in Civil War hospitals and the ways in which witnessing the brutality of war inspired his later writing, especially the themes of death and destruction as a means to national rebirth, and redefinition. But the issues of abolition and race are absent from Whitman’s poetry and prose concerning his experiences with the “Secession War.” How does this reflect the larger, national understanding of the meaning of the end of the war for white Americans? - Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 19 in Blight’s book, he mentions that in the aftermath of the war, private, or individual, memories collided with the political collective memory that was involving. What would be the difference between individual and collective memories? Would they always oppose each other? -Angie<br />
<br />
In Blight's book, he mentions Whitman's quote about the "real war" getting into the books, how much did the advances in historians and writers methods affect the memory of the civil war both in the face of all the conflicting stories from the war. - AJ L. <br />
<br />
== General questions ==<br />
<br />
There war was called by many different names. From our readings we have the 2nd War for Independence, a southerner’s term for the war (in McPherson’s piece) and the Secession War from Whitman, a northerner (in the reading from Blight). How long after the war did it take for ‘The Civil War’ to become the most common term for the war? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
== debate topics ==<br />
<br />
McPherson talks about northern women extolling their husbands to return home, that family was more important then fighting for their country. Did southern women fell the same way or did they feel as there husbands did. -- R.King<br />
<br />
In ''Remembering Slavery'': the importance of song and folk lyrics as their own battlefield: how did the southern blacks use song to demonstrate and spread their own current events knowledge, and what examples in this article struck you most?- A. Askins<br />
<br />
McPherson in "Remembering Slavery discusses the recruitment of African Americans in the Union Army and how the inclusion of African Americans soldiers impacted the war. In your opinion, how instrumental was African Americans joining the Union Army in contributing to the Union's victory?-Nick. J<br />
<br />
The role of Lincoln in the creation of a Civil War memory. Blight touches on the weary president attempting to come to term with the death toll of a war no longer under his control. We talk quite a bit about the roles of Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee after the War. Can it be argued that, despite his life being cut short, Lincoln shaped the public memory of the Civil War as much or more than Lee and Davis with the Gettysburg Address? -D. Radtke</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_2_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 2 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-01-18T09:01:27Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>== McPherson, What They Fought For, ==<br />
<br />
In McPherson's "What They Fought For," the issue of slavery was left out in the majority of the letters on both the Union and Confederate sides (pg. 49). However, many soldiers understood the War as fundamentally about slavery instead of reunion after the Emancipation Proclamation. Do you think the absence of slavery in the letters affected the soldiers' memories? --MK Napier <br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson discusses the both the North and the South's reasons for fighting and through his sampling of letters, he was able to draw some parallels between the two. Both sides seemed to connect one of their reasons for fighting to the American Revolution and upholding a sense of liberty. Do you think this connection to the American Revolution and the Civil War is important? Did many soldiers experience similar sentiments, not just the ones from McPherson's sampling? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson sampling techniques are to say the least "interesting" and at worst suspect. He has taken a very unbalanced approach when it comes to confederate letters and diaries yet takes a more balanced approach with the northern articles. Is he taking Telsen's approach of constructing a history to fit his needs or is it something more benign? -- R.King<br />
<br />
McPherson repeated over and over again about how the Confederate soldiers expected to win, that it would be better to die for the cause, and he even used the term "subjugated" to refer to losing the war to be a fate worse than death. Later on in the reading he also used the term "glorious cause." I wonder how words like this that are written in soldiers' diaries and read throughout primary sources shape the way in which people think of the Confederacy, their passion, and their reasons for their involvement in the war? -Avanness<br />
<br />
McPherson suggests that, based on his sample of journal entries, Confederate soldiers seemed largely oblivious to the irony of their references to slavery and freedom when referring to the "tyranny" of the Yankees, while suggesting that their Revolution-era counterparts were typically appreciative of this “paradox” (50-51). Is this demonstrative of a shift in culture in the South since the American Revolution or is it just an example of how patriotism is written about in war-time journal entries? -Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson throughout the section on "Holy Cause of Liberty and Independence" describes the Confederacy's motivation in fighting and discusses that the defense of their homeland was one of their chief motivations. Defending their homeland from the Union seemed to greatly inspire the Confederacy and in response to their fighting spirit a sergeant from Illinois wrote that the Confederates " fight Devils in Tophet because the were fighting to keep an enemy out of their own neighborhood and their own property" (19). An officer also from Illinois summarized the Confederacy's war motivation fairly well by stating " they are fighting from different motives than us. We are fighting for the Union... a high and noble sentiment but after all only a sentiment. They are fighting for independence and are animated by passion and hatred against invaders ... it makes no reason whether their cause is just or not. Do you agree with this statement that it made no difference if the Confederacy's cause was just or not?- Nick J.<br />
<br />
McPherson's article outlines the various motives for fighting, and the particular confederate and union attitudes regarding each other. One chapter outlined the "confederate bloodlust" at seeing dead yankees, a particularly striking chapter, but there was no parallel description of Yankee point-of-view as particularly morbid. Why would the south be more inclined to emphasize in correspondence home this morbid satisfaction? Or is this a result of historiographical error or bias?- A. Askins<br />
<br />
"What They Fought For" posits that civil war soldiers were far more idealistic than previously assumed. However, a letter does not describe a soldier's thoughts, but what they put down on paper. In any war the two may not be the same thing, though they certainly could be. Is there a difference in the two, or are the views in these letters, as McPherson suggests, largely accurate portraits of soldiers' opinions on the war? Also, it should be noted that the view in general society was that war in general was honorable and glorious, which cannot be said for the first world war or those after it. Could this have affected how a soldier chose to describe the war? -GStan.<br />
<br />
As mentioned before in McPherson’s piece both the Union soldiers and the Confederates compared themselves to the men who fought in the Revolutionary War. In your opinion, did one side have a stronger argument in comparing themselves to their forefathers? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Why, as McPherson states at the end of page 21, did the Texan troops appear to be more candid about the massacring of Yankee soldiers when they were the furthest away from a great deal of the fighting, geographically?<br />
<br />
== Remembering Slavery ==<br />
<br />
In ''Remembering Slavery'', many of the slaves mention that did not understand the meaning of 'freedom'. For example, on page 215, a salve girl remarks, "I didn't know what 'free' meant, and I askes Mrs. Harris if I was free." I'd imagine that many slaves did not understand this concept as well, but my question is, how many of them asked their slaveholder what the meaning of free was and got a truthful answer? Were the slaveholders able to exploit their slaves further even after the Civil War ended simply because many did not understand what it meant to be free? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On page 240-241 of the Remembering Slavery article, said that some freed slaves were sad that they were free after the war partially because the Yankee soldiers had destroyed food and livestock in the regions in which they lived. Since earlier accounts had talked about the celebrations of the soldiers coming to town (pg. 234), does this mean that the “collective” memory of freed slaves is actually quite different than individual memories? -Angie<br />
<br />
One of the things that struck me about so many of these narratives was the ways in which the slaves discussed their normal, everyday activities, while simultaneously notions of freedom. Even those for whom the concept of freedom was impossibly foreign quickly came to understand the implications of the arrival of the Union Army. How much did slaves of the Deep South know about the War, both before and during? Did George Kye, a wagon driver serving in the Confederate Army in the place of his master, acknowledge the purpose of the War before being set free?- D. Radtke<br />
<br />
== Blight, ''Race and Reunion'' ==<br />
<br />
In ''Race and Reunion'' Blight talks about themes of rebirth, reunion, and reconciliation of the nation at the end of the Civil War. Do you think that the southern memory of the Civil War (in particular the Lost Cause, Jim Crow Laws, etc.) were an attempt to stop the "rebirth" of the nation?--MK Napier<br />
<br />
Why did the promoters of the 1913 Gettysburg reunion discourage discussion of the causes of the war? Was it because it would have shown the war to be a Union failure in light of the countries acceptance of Jim Crow? -- R.King<br />
<br />
<br />
In Blight's reading and throughout "Remembering Slavery," the idea of a Black Civil War memory is mentioned. I wonder how important you think their memories about Civil War are in the way we have shaped the Civil War in our memory today? Do you think they are more important than Union or Confederate soldiers' memories or that many of their memories have been lost over time due to their slave status? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
In Race and Reunion, Blight discusses Walt Whitman’s writing about his experiences in Civil War hospitals and the ways in which witnessing the brutality of war inspired his later writing, especially the themes of death and destruction as a means to national rebirth, and redefinition. But the issues of abolition and race are absent from Whitman’s poetry and prose concerning his experiences with the “Secession War.” How does this reflect the larger, national understanding of the meaning of the end of the war for white Americans? - Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 19 in Blight’s book, he mentions that in the aftermath of the war, private, or individual, memories collided with the political collective memory that was involving. What would be the difference between individual and collective memories? Would they always oppose each other? -Angie<br />
<br />
In Blight's book, he mentions Whitman's quote about the "real war" getting into the books, how much did the advances in historians and writers methods affect the memory of the civil war both in the face of all the conflicting stories from the war. - AJ L. <br />
<br />
== General questions ==<br />
<br />
There war was called by many different names. From our readings we have the 2nd War for Independence, a southerner’s term for the war (in McPherson’s piece) and the Secession War from Whitman, a northerner (in the reading from Blight). How long after the war did it take for ‘The Civil War’ to become the most common term for the war? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
== debate topics ==<br />
<br />
McPherson talks about northern women extolling their husbands to return home, that family was more important then fighting for their country. Did southern women fell the same way or did they feel as there husbands did. -- R.King<br />
<br />
In ''Remembering Slavery'': the importance of song and folk lyrics as their own battlefield: how did the southern blacks use song to demonstrate and spread their own current events knowledge, and what examples in this article struck you most?- A. Askins<br />
<br />
McPherson in "Remembering Slavery discusses the recruitment of African Americans in the Union Army and how the inclusion of African Americans soldiers impacted the war. In your opinion, how instrumental was African Americans joining the Union Army in contributing to the Union's victory?-Nick. J<br />
<br />
The role of Lincoln in the creation of a Civil War memory. Blight touches on the weary president attempting to come to term with the death toll of a war no longer under his control. We talk quite a bit about the roles of Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee after the War. Can it be argued that, despite his life being cut short, Lincoln shaped the public memory of the Civil War as much or more than Lee and Davis with the Gettysburg Address? -D. Radtke</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_2_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 2 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-01-18T08:28:13Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>== McPherson, What They Fought For, ==<br />
<br />
In McPherson's "What They Fought For," the issue of slavery was left out in the majority of the letters on both the Union and Confederate sides (pg. 49). However, many soldiers understood the War as fundamentally about slavery instead of reunion after the Emancipation Proclamation. Do you think the absence of slavery in the letters affected the soldiers' memories? --MK Napier <br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson discusses the both the North and the South's reasons for fighting and through his sampling of letters, he was able to draw some parallels between the two. Both sides seemed to connect one of their reasons for fighting to the American Revolution and upholding a sense of liberty. Do you think this connection to the American Revolution and the Civil War is important? Did many soldiers experience similar sentiments, not just the ones from McPherson's sampling? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson sampling techniques are to say the least "interesting" and at worst suspect. He has taken a very unbalanced approach when it comes to confederate letters and diaries yet takes a more balanced approach with the northern articles. Is he taking Telsen's approach of constructing a history to fit his needs or is it something more benign? -- R.King<br />
<br />
McPherson repeated over and over again about how the Confederate soldiers expected to win, that it would be better to die for the cause, and he even used the term "subjugated" to refer to losing the war to be a fate worse than death. Later on in the reading he also used the term "glorious cause." I wonder how words like this that are written in soldiers' diaries and read throughout primary sources shape the way in which people think of the Confederacy, their passion, and their reasons for their involvement in the war? -Avanness<br />
<br />
McPherson suggests that, based on his sample of journal entries, Confederate soldiers seemed largely oblivious to the irony of their references to slavery and freedom when referring to the "tyranny" of the Yankees, while suggesting that their Revolution-era counterparts were typically appreciative of this “paradox” (50-51). Is this demonstrative of a shift in culture in the South since the American Revolution or is it just an example of how patriotism is written about in war-time journal entries? -Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
McPherson throughout the section on "Holy Cause of Liberty and Independence" describes the Confederacy's motivation in fighting and discusses that the defense of their homeland was one of their chief motivations. Defending their homeland from the Union seemed to greatly inspire the Confederacy and in response to their fighting spirit a sergeant from Illinois wrote that the Confederates " fight Devils in Tophet because the were fighting to keep an enemy out of their own neighborhood and their own property" (19). An officer also from Illinois summarized the Confederacy's war motivation fairly well by stating " they are fighting from different motives than us. We are fighting for the Union... a high and noble sentiment but after all only a sentiment. They are fighting for independence and are animated by passion and hatred against invaders ... it makes no reason whether their cause is just or not. Do you agree with this statement that it made no difference if the Confederacy's cause was just or not?- Nick J.<br />
<br />
McPherson's article outlines the various motives for fighting, and the particular confederate and union attitudes regarding each other. One chapter outlined the "confederate bloodlust" at seeing dead yankees, a particularly striking chapter, but there was no parallel description of Yankee point-of-view as particularly morbid. Why would the south be more inclined to emphasize in correspondence home this morbid satisfaction? Or is this a result of historiographical error or bias?- A. Askins<br />
<br />
"What They Fought For" posits that civil war soldiers were far more idealistic than previously assumed. However, a letter does not describe a soldier's thoughts, but what they put down on paper. In any war the two may not be the same thing, though they certainly could be. Is there a difference in the two, or are the views in these letters, as McPherson suggests, largely accurate portraits of soldiers' opinions on the war? Also, it should be noted that the view in general society was that war in general was honorable and glorious, which cannot be said for the first world war or those after it. Could this have affected how a soldier chose to describe the war? -GStan.<br />
<br />
As mentioned before in McPherson’s piece both the Union soldiers and the Confederates compared themselves to the men who fought in the Revolutionary War. In your opinion, did one side have a stronger argument in comparing themselves to their forefathers? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
== Remembering Slavery ==<br />
<br />
In ''Remembering Slavery'', many of the slaves mention that did not understand the meaning of 'freedom'. For example, on page 215, a salve girl remarks, "I didn't know what 'free' meant, and I askes Mrs. Harris if I was free." I'd imagine that many slaves did not understand this concept as well, but my question is, how many of them asked their slaveholder what the meaning of free was and got a truthful answer? Were the slaveholders able to exploit their slaves further even after the Civil War ended simply because many did not understand what it meant to be free? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On page 240-241 of the Remembering Slavery article, said that some freed slaves were sad that they were free after the war partially because the Yankee soldiers had destroyed food and livestock in the regions in which they lived. Since earlier accounts had talked about the celebrations of the soldiers coming to town (pg. 234), does this mean that the “collective” memory of freed slaves is actually quite different than individual memories? -Angie<br />
<br />
One of the things that struck me about so many of these narratives was the ways in which the slaves discussed their normal, everyday activities, while simultaneously notions of freedom. Even those for whom the concept of freedom was impossibly foreign quickly came to understand the implications of the arrival of the Union Army. How much did slaves of the Deep South know about the War, both before and during? Did George Kye, a wagon driver serving in the Confederate Army in the place of his master, acknowledge the purpose of the War before being set free?- D. Radtke<br />
<br />
== Blight, ''Race and Reunion'' ==<br />
<br />
In ''Race and Reunion'' Blight talks about themes of rebirth, reunion, and reconciliation of the nation at the end of the Civil War. Do you think that the southern memory of the Civil War (in particular the Lost Cause, Jim Crow Laws, etc.) were an attempt to stop the "rebirth" of the nation?--MK Napier<br />
<br />
Why did the promoters of the 1913 Gettysburg reunion discourage discussion of the causes of the war? Was it because it would have shown the war to be a Union failure in light of the countries acceptance of Jim Crow? -- R.King<br />
<br />
<br />
In Blight's reading and throughout "Remembering Slavery," the idea of a Black Civil War memory is mentioned. I wonder how important you think their memories about Civil War are in the way we have shaped the Civil War in our memory today? Do you think they are more important than Union or Confederate soldiers' memories or that many of their memories have been lost over time due to their slave status? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
In Race and Reunion, Blight discusses Walt Whitman’s writing about his experiences in Civil War hospitals and the ways in which witnessing the brutality of war inspired his later writing, especially the themes of death and destruction as a means to national rebirth, and redefinition. But the issues of abolition and race are absent from Whitman’s poetry and prose concerning his experiences with the “Secession War.” How does this reflect the larger, national understanding of the meaning of the end of the war for white Americans? - Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 19 in Blight’s book, he mentions that in the aftermath of the war, private, or individual, memories collided with the political collective memory that was involving. What would be the difference between individual and collective memories? Would they always oppose each other? -Angie<br />
<br />
In Blight's book, he mentions Whitman's quote about the "real war" getting into the books, how much did the advances in historians and writers methods affect the memory of the civil war both in the face of all the conflicting stories from the war. - AJ L. <br />
<br />
== General questions ==<br />
<br />
There war was called by many different names. From our readings we have the 2nd War for Independence, a southerner’s term for the war (in McPherson’s piece) and the Secession War from Whitman, a northerner (in the reading from Blight). How long after the war did it take for ‘The Civil War’ to become the most common term for the war? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
== debate topics ==<br />
<br />
McPherson talks about northern women extolling their husbands to return home, that family was more important then fighting for their country. Did southern women fell the same way or did they feel as there husbands did. -- R.King<br />
<br />
In ''Remembering Slavery'': the importance of song and folk lyrics as their own battlefield: how did the southern blacks use song to demonstrate and spread their own current events knowledge, and what examples in this article struck you most?- A. Askins<br />
<br />
McPherson in "Remembering Slavery discusses the recruitment of African Americans in the Union Army and how the inclusion of African Americans soldiers impacted the war. In your opinion, how instrumental was African Americans joining the Union Army in contributing to the Union's victory?-Nick. J<br />
<br />
The role of Lincoln in the creation of a Civil War memory. Blight touches on the weary president attempting to come to term with the death toll of a war no longer under his control. We talk quite a bit about the roles of Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee after the War. Can it be argued that, despite his life being cut short, Lincoln shaped the public memory of the Civil War as much or more than Lee and Davis with the Gettysburg Address? -D. Radtke</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_1_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 1 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-01-12T21:46:55Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>If the Race problem was so deeply ingrained in the reasoning behind the civil war, and both sides believed they were fighting for the right causes, how did the Yankee and Confederate soldiers reconcile their differences while the race problem itself continued to grow bigger and bigger?- AJ L.<br />
<br />
What methods of shaping people's memory of the civil war seemed to be most effective? The monuments that were erected, the books that told the varying history of the war (printed by both north and south), the politics of the time etc... AJ L.</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_1_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 1 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-01-12T21:13:19Z<p>AJLawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>If the Race problem was so deeply ingrained in the reasoning behind the civil war, and both sides believed they were fighting for the right causes, how did the Yankee and Confederate soldiers reconcile their differences while the race problem itself continued to grow bigger and bigger?- AJ L.</div>AJLawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_1_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 1 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-01-12T21:12:42Z<p>AJLawrence: New page: If the Race problem was so deeply ingrained in the reasoning behind the civil war, and both sides believed they were fighting for the right causes, how did the Yankee and Confederate soldi...</p>
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<div>If the Race problem was so deeply ingrained in the reasoning behind the civil war, and both sides believed they were fighting for the right causes, how did the Yankee and Confederate soldiers reconcile their differences while the race problem itself continued to grow bigger and bigger?</div>AJLawrence Deprecated: header(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($response_code) of type int is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 38