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Deprecated: header(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($response_code) of type int is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 38 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=AJ+LawrenceMcClurken Wiki - User contributions [en]2026-09-18T19:11:55ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.22.0https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_14_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 14 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-19T03:59:10Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>The McConnell article was interesting - even if his whole geography metaphor was kind of a stretch. The most interesting idea in terms of this class is the function of historical memory as a subject and also its evolution out of the democratized history of the 1960s. Do you agree that the study of historical memory serves in part to assign sort of a "watchdog" role to the trained historian over the proliferation of individual perceptions and stories? Do you see it as a clear evolution of the "bottom-up" history from the 1960s? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
What is the importance and influence of monuments and other physical objects in the League of the South and the Southern Party? -avanness <br />
<br />
Women were barred from the "ranks of academic historians" yet they could write sentimental fiction that many men were incapable or unable to write. What impact do you think sentimental fiction about the Civil War that was written by women had on people and the process of remembering the war? -avanness<br />
<br />
Is there a suggestion for a commemoration that Gilmore could have made that would have made everyone happy? What function does making anything like a "Confederate History Month" or a "Proclamation Honoring all Virginians..." serve? Does it serve any real function other than answering the requests of a certain group? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
What does McConnell mean by saying that Memory has geography? How was the geography of memory pertaining to the Civil War developed over the last 150 years? -Nick J<br />
<br />
I thought the Shackel piece was interesting, namely his discussion of the neo-confederate movement. He precedes this by talking about how African Americans tried to preserve their heritage which was an interesting contrast between the way the South tries to remember their heritage. Do you think that either African Americans or proponents of the Confederacy are successfully able to preserve their 'hertiage' and how far should a group of go to do so (like the League of the South)? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Shackel starts off his piece by saying that the Lost Cause and the many monuments and other commemoration materials stemmed partly from their being no political outlet for southerners to express their views in. After the Civil War, Southerners were not pushing for the restoration of their cultural heritage and values on a political field, so they turned to commemoration. If neo-confederates are coming into existence, are monuments and commemoration still needed in the South? Why are there neo-confederate politics if the Lost Cause has been such a popular movement, was that movement not enough? - Angie<br />
<br />
McConnell's piece had a lot of interesting points that we have sort of touched on throughout the semester. Towards the end of the chapter, he discusses historical memory and briefly touches on its origins. How much trust and credibility should be placed on historical memory of the Civil War? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I really liked how McConnell discussed public space and how what goes into that public space is reflective of who is in power. If we are to look at public spaces over time and see what has changed or been placed in them (such as monuments, buildings, or even plaques) it seems as though we could make a judgement of who was in power at the time. When confederate memorials were built, it seems safe to say that Confederate sympathizers were in charge. But when a confederate flag is brought down, does that say that they are no longer in that position? In the end, public spaces seem really important to how we understand society. - Angie<br />
<br />
Do you think that historians today should make an effort to try to recognize and establish monuments for people today who were left out by those in power at the time? Or is that part of our history? -MK<br />
<br />
Why do you think there was so much resentment from Southerns to the erection of an Arthur Ash on Monument Avenue in Richmond Virginia, where Ash was from. Was the only reason they were against it was because they felt that the monument did no belong there since this famous avenue only contained monuments of Confederate Generals. Do you think if the Ash monument was put somewhere besides monument avenue that there would have been no resentment against the monument from neo-Confederates.- Nick J<br />
<br />
Why haven't as many African Americans protested the absence of the Robinson family at the Manassas Battlefield? -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Shackel talks about the struggle to control public memory. What power struggles for the control over the collective public memory have been or will be at play for the 150th Anniversary of the Civil War? -MK<br />
<br />
The McConnell article talks about how alternate, public histories have become accepted as valid. Is this really the case? History as a field seems quite concerned with getting the public to accept more accurate ideas about why the war started and what its implications were. Most historians seem openly hostile to theories on the cause of the war that neglect to include slavery. -GStan.<br />
<br />
Discussion topics for tomorrow Confederate History and Heritage month, the League of the South, Neo Confederate movement and the Southern party. The way we remember historical monuments. The Lost Cause and Subverting the official History. Logan T<br />
<br />
I think tomorrow is a good day to sum up the semester and all the conclusions that we can drawl from our discussions. Are there only two schools on how the Civil War should be remembered? How has Civil War memory changed over the years? From what we learned from the class how do we think the Civil War will be remembered in the future? Logan T<br />
<br />
What are the pros and cons of master narratives vs. narratives that might focus on one particular aspect of the Civil War? Which do you think is better? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Is McConnell's argument that Politics played the primary role in Civil War memory still valid, or is that only true for the guilded age(which is what he was referring to)? Throughout the course it has seemed that most of the arguments about the civil war are indeed steeped in politics of one sort or another, however, does politics still play the main role in determining Civil War memory? - AJ<br />
<br />
The whole idea of Popular memory as history and whether or not Historians have the right to impose their own version of history that they've researched is messy and complicated, even though we've been studying it all semester. At what point do you think it becomes necessary for historians to impose a "true" version of the history in comparison to popular memory? Or is it simply a game of tug of war between both sides, vying for which version is "true". - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_14_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 14 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-19T03:44:44Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>The McConnell article was interesting - even if his whole geography metaphor was kind of a stretch. The most interesting idea in terms of this class is the function of historical memory as a subject and also its evolution out of the democratized history of the 1960s. Do you agree that the study of historical memory serves in part to assign sort of a "watchdog" role to the trained historian over the proliferation of individual perceptions and stories? Do you see it as a clear evolution of the "bottom-up" history from the 1960s? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
<br />
What is the importance and influence of monuments and other physical objects in the League of the South and the Southern Party? -avanness <br />
<br />
Women were barred from the "ranks of academic historians" yet they could write sentimental fiction that many men were incapable or unable to write. What impact do you think sentimental fiction about the Civil War that was written by women had on people and the process of remembering the war? -avanness<br />
<br />
Is there a suggestion for a commemoration that Gilmore could have made that would have made everyone happy? What function does making anything like a "Confederate History Month" or a "Proclamation Honoring all Virginians..." serve? Does it serve any real function other than answering the requests of a certain group? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
What does McConnell mean by saying that Memory has geography? How was the geography of memory pertaining to the Civil War developed over the last 150 years? -Nick J<br />
<br />
I thought the Shackel piece was interesting, namely his discussion of the neo-confederate movement. He precedes this by talking about how African Americans tried to preserve their heritage which was an interesting contrast between the way the South tries to remember their heritage. Do you think that either African Americans or proponents of the Confederacy are successfully able to preserve their 'hertiage' and how far should a group of go to do so (like the League of the South)? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Shackel starts off his piece by saying that the Lost Cause and the many monuments and other commemoration materials stemmed partly from their being no political outlet for southerners to express their views in. After the Civil War, Southerners were not pushing for the restoration of their cultural heritage and values on a political field, so they turned to commemoration. If neo-confederates are coming into existence, are monuments and commemoration still needed in the South? Why are there neo-confederate politics if the Lost Cause has been such a popular movement, was that movement not enough? - Angie<br />
<br />
McConnell's piece had a lot of interesting points that we have sort of touched on throughout the semester. Towards the end of the chapter, he discusses historical memory and briefly touches on its origins. How much trust and credibility should be placed on historical memory of the Civil War? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I really liked how McConnell discussed public space and how what goes into that public space is reflective of who is in power. If we are to look at public spaces over time and see what has changed or been placed in them (such as monuments, buildings, or even plaques) it seems as though we could make a judgement of who was in power at the time. When confederate memorials were built, it seems safe to say that Confederate sympathizers were in charge. But when a confederate flag is brought down, does that say that they are no longer in that position? In the end, public spaces seem really important to how we understand society. - Angie<br />
<br />
Do you think that historians today should make an effort to try to recognize and establish monuments for people today who were left out by those in power at the time? Or is that part of our history? -MK<br />
<br />
Why do you think there was so much resentment from Southerns to the erection of an Arthur Ash on Monument Avenue in Richmond Virginia, where Ash was from. Was the only reason they were against it was because they felt that the monument did no belong there since this famous avenue only contained monuments of Confederate Generals. Do you think if the Ash monument was put somewhere besides monument avenue that there would have been no resentment against the monument from neo-Confederates.- Nick J<br />
<br />
Why haven't as many African Americans protested the absence of the Robinson family at the Manassas Battlefield? -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Shackel talks about the struggle to control public memory. What power struggles for the control over the collective public memory have been or will be at play for the 150th Anniversary of the Civil War? -MK<br />
<br />
The McConnell article talks about how alternate, public histories have become accepted as valid. Is this really the case? History as a field seems quite concerned with getting the public to accept more accurate ideas about why the war started and what its implications were. Most historians seem openly hostile to theories on the cause of the war that neglect to include slavery. -GStan.<br />
<br />
Discussion topics for tomorrow Confederate History and Heritage month, the League of the South, Neo Confederate movement and the Southern party. The way we remember historical monuments. The Lost Cause and Subverting the official History. Logan T<br />
<br />
I think tomorrow is a good day to sum up the semester and all the conclusions that we can drawl from our discussions. Are there only two schools on how the Civil War should be remembered? How has Civil War memory changed over the years? From what we learned from the class how do we think the Civil War will be remembered in the future? Logan T<br />
<br />
What are the pros and cons of master narratives vs. narratives that might focus on one particular aspect of the Civil War? Which do you think is better? –Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Is McConnell's argument that Politics played the primary role in Civil War memory still valid, or is that only true for the guilded age(which is what he was referring to)? Throughout the course it has seemed that most of the arguments about the civil war are indeed steeped in politics of one sort or another, however, does politics still play the main role in determining Civil War memory? - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_13_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 13 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-14T03:58:30Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''NOTE: Please include name and link to Blogs you're discussing.'''<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought this blog was interesting. I liked how it was a more of an “average joe's” perspective of the Civil War and the Sesquicentennial as opposed to a scholarly or academic viewpoint. He included a lot of various topics that revolve around the Civil War in his posts. He included, for example, a mentioning of an interview with the great great grandson of Grant, information on a sculptor who died who created the “Lone Sailor”. He also includes other topics in his posts such as baseball and and since he is also a volunteer in the Interpretation Division at Ellis Island National Monument, he does include some information about this place. What do you think about a blog that is structured in this way? If he titles the site Sesquicentennial site, is it okay that he includes posts about subjects that do not relate to the Civil War? -avanness<br />
<br />
One of the sites I looked at was the President Lincoln's Cottage blog. This was a pretty simple, informative site about Lincoln's cottage and other topics that pertain to the president. I liked how the site contained news, updates, information about the cottage and the soldiers’ home. It also included information about visiting the cottage. I noticed that a few of the posts actually contained footnotes with the posts being written by various employees who work at the cottage. It seemed to be a very formal and accurate site. Do you think the general public would be more interested in a site like this, one that is more informative and accurate or in a blog such as the one from "Strawfoot"; one from an average person who is maybe just a Civil War buff? What can you possibly take away from either? -avanness<br />
<br />
I like The Strawfoot Blog (http://thestrawfoot.wordpress.com/). It was interesting to read a northern perspective on the Civil War and how New York state is preparing for the sesquicentennial. In a lot of his posts, he mainly talks about his travels to various Civil War sites and his experiences. He doesn't seem to any apparent slant or take on the meaning of the war, which I thought was interesting. How much emphasis and credibility should be placed on Blogs such as this one, a guy who has no real professional Civil War training? What can be learned from blogs like this? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Reading through the blog Crossroads (http://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/) I found a lot of Professor Simpson's (ASU) posts interesting. In one of his more recent posts about the sesquicentennial, he remarks "I view the sesquicentennial as one large educational opportunity." Would you agree that the sesquicentennial is an educational opportunity or is it simply just another 'event'? Do you think that by focusing on education rather than entertainment (and possibly even commemoration) for the sesquicentennial people will less inclined to particpate? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
One of the blogs I looked at, "Civil Warriors," (http://civilwarriors.net/wordpress/) contained a lot of random but interesting posts. The blog writers Mark Grimsley and Ethan Rafuse are currently writing books on the civil war and are using this site to interact with their potential readers and exchange information. Most of the posts have to do with current events that deal with Civil War memory, such as how Thomas P. Lowry is currently being accused of altering a Lincoln document.- aaskins<br />
<br />
I also looked at "My Old Confederate Home" (http://myoldconfederatehome.blogspot.com/), a blog kept by Rusty Williams who wrote the book ''My Old Confederate Home: a respectable place for Civil War veterans''. He posts information on the sources he used to write this book, and includes a lot of interesting anecdotes about some of the vets. My favorite story was about a vet who on his 100th birthday bought an oldsmobile and hired someone to teach him to drive. This blog is quite interesting because it focuses on the vets' everyday lives after the war, and more importantly, how they adjusted to living in veteran homes.- aaskin<br />
<br />
One of the blogs I looked at was Victoria Bynum's blog, "Renegade South" (http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/), which goes into great detail about personal stories of various Southerners involved in the war. It is interesting to see such a level of detail for so many unknown stories. It adds depth to a lot of the stuff we've been talking about. As an added plus, ahe is currently mired in controversy with John Stauffer and Sally Jenkins, and dedicates some of her posts to insulting them or responding to their put downs, which can be found by searching for either of their names. -GStan.<br />
<br />
I read Rantings of a Civil War Historian (http://civilwarcavalry.com/) and the whole time while I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking about our conversation about the difference between academic historians and more "popular" history writers. The guy who writes this blog, Eric Wittenburg, is an attorney from Ohio who really likes to focus on Union tactics and Gettysburg. He also kind of bashes the Lost Causers for fear that they will cause people to forget the real reason behind the war: slavery. I really want to pick up one of his books and read it just to see how he writes eg, academically or for the general public. - Angie<br />
<br />
I also looked at the Civil War Bookshelf blog (http://cwbn.blogspot.com/) which was kind of confusing. It claims to be about historiography but I really didn't find much of that. He kind of just rants on about the same Civil War topic for long periods of time. There was one interesting post, though, where he talks about the difference between "stigmatizers" and "honorers." He basically says there are two types of people: those that want to honor the legacy of the Confederacy (honorers) and those that think its completely ignorant to do so because of slavery (stigmatizers). It was just interesting to see someone actually categorize people like that. - Angie<br />
<br />
The first blog I looked at was " Fredericksburg Remembered The Challenges and adventures of interpreting the history of Fredericksburg, Stafford and Spotslyvania. Overall it is a very good blog focusing on the area and discusses many different Civil War topics that range from Secession, Slavery, John Washington etc. While looking at the various blogs on this website the section I found the most interesting was the section on John Washington. While reading John Washington and the emergence of a voice for Fredericksburg slave I found that statistic provided by David Blight, that out of 9 million slaves only 200 left behind memoirs. What role does a lack of slave memoirs play in determining the remembrance of slaves during the Civil War? -Nick<br />
<br />
The first Blog I looked at was underneath the Cosmic America section, which I was wondering what the heck it even was, entitled "Straight From the Department of Bad Ideas…", and it holds up to its title. It discusses a elementary school teacher who decided it would be a great idea to celebrate the sesquicentennial by dividing her class up in black and white sections and holding a mock slave auction. Mind you this is an elementary school class, not a college or even high school level class, and this was done by a teacher in Norfolk. I found the story very interesting, and the teacher retarded, partially because I never heard about it. The comments on the blog tend to hold my sentiments. - AJ<br />
<br />
The blog-site entitled "Draw the Sword" is a site devoted to the monuments of the Gettysburg battlefield. It has a page devoted to answering FAQ's on monuments, a page to provide an introductions to monuments in general, and, of course, many pages of pictures of almost each individual monument at gettysburg. You can search the monuments by brigades/armies, corps, commanding officers, and Monument type. I'm not going to lie, the name of the Blog was far more interesting to me than the actual site was, however the project that is being undergone by this site is good for digital history, like what we were talking about on tuesday. - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_13_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 13 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-14T03:50:59Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>'''NOTE: Please include name and link to Blogs you're discussing.'''<br />
<br />
<br />
I thought this blog was interesting. I liked how it was a more of an “average joe's” perspective of the Civil War and the Sesquicentennial as opposed to a scholarly or academic viewpoint. He included a lot of various topics that revolve around the Civil War in his posts. He included, for example, a mentioning of an interview with the great great grandson of Grant, information on a sculptor who died who created the “Lone Sailor”. He also includes other topics in his posts such as baseball and and since he is also a volunteer in the Interpretation Division at Ellis Island National Monument, he does include some information about this place. What do you think about a blog that is structured in this way? If he titles the site Sesquicentennial site, is it okay that he includes posts about subjects that do not relate to the Civil War? -avanness<br />
<br />
One of the sites I looked at was the President Lincoln's Cottage blog. This was a pretty simple, informative site about Lincoln's cottage and other topics that pertain to the president. I liked how the site contained news, updates, information about the cottage and the soldiers’ home. It also included information about visiting the cottage. I noticed that a few of the posts actually contained footnotes with the posts being written by various employees who work at the cottage. It seemed to be a very formal and accurate site. Do you think the general public would be more interested in a site like this, one that is more informative and accurate or in a blog such as the one from "Strawfoot"; one from an average person who is maybe just a Civil War buff? What can you possibly take away from either? -avanness<br />
<br />
I like The Strawfoot Blog (http://thestrawfoot.wordpress.com/). It was interesting to read a northern perspective on the Civil War and how New York state is preparing for the sesquicentennial. In a lot of his posts, he mainly talks about his travels to various Civil War sites and his experiences. He doesn't seem to any apparent slant or take on the meaning of the war, which I thought was interesting. How much emphasis and credibility should be placed on Blogs such as this one, a guy who has no real professional Civil War training? What can be learned from blogs like this? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Reading through the blog Crossroads (http://cwcrossroads.wordpress.com/) I found a lot of Professor Simpson's (ASU) posts interesting. In one of his more recent posts about the sesquicentennial, he remarks "I view the sesquicentennial as one large educational opportunity." Would you agree that the sesquicentennial is an educational opportunity or is it simply just another 'event'? Do you think that by focusing on education rather than entertainment (and possibly even commemoration) for the sesquicentennial people will less inclined to particpate? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
One of the blogs I looked at, "Civil Warriors," (http://civilwarriors.net/wordpress/) contained a lot of random but interesting posts. The blog writers Mark Grimsley and Ethan Rafuse are currently writing books on the civil war and are using this site to interact with their potential readers and exchange information. Most of the posts have to do with current events that deal with Civil War memory, such as how Thomas P. Lowry is currently being accused of altering a Lincoln document.- aaskins<br />
<br />
I also looked at "My Old Confederate Home" (http://myoldconfederatehome.blogspot.com/), a blog kept by Rusty Williams who wrote the book ''My Old Confederate Home: a respectable place for Civil War veterans''. He posts information on the sources he used to write this book, and includes a lot of interesting anecdotes about some of the vets. My favorite story was about a vet who on his 100th birthday bought an oldsmobile and hired someone to teach him to drive. This blog is quite interesting because it focuses on the vets' everyday lives after the war, and more importantly, how they adjusted to living in veteran homes.- aaskin<br />
<br />
One of the blogs I looked at was Victoria Bynum's blog, "Renegade South" (http://renegadesouth.wordpress.com/), which goes into great detail about personal stories of various Southerners involved in the war. It is interesting to see such a level of detail for so many unknown stories. It adds depth to a lot of the stuff we've been talking about. As an added plus, ahe is currently mired in controversy with John Stauffer and Sally Jenkins, and dedicates some of her posts to insulting them or responding to their put downs, which can be found by searching for either of their names. -GStan.<br />
<br />
I read Rantings of a Civil War Historian (http://civilwarcavalry.com/) and the whole time while I was reading it, I couldn't stop thinking about our conversation about the difference between academic historians and more "popular" history writers. The guy who writes this blog, Eric Wittenburg, is an attorney from Ohio who really likes to focus on Union tactics and Gettysburg. He also kind of bashes the Lost Causers for fear that they will cause people to forget the real reason behind the war: slavery. I really want to pick up one of his books and read it just to see how he writes eg, academically or for the general public. - Angie<br />
<br />
I also looked at the Civil War Bookshelf blog (http://cwbn.blogspot.com/) which was kind of confusing. It claims to be about historiography but I really didn't find much of that. He kind of just rants on about the same Civil War topic for long periods of time. There was one interesting post, though, where he talks about the difference between "stigmatizers" and "honorers." He basically says there are two types of people: those that want to honor the legacy of the Confederacy (honorers) and those that think its completely ignorant to do so because of slavery (stigmatizers). It was just interesting to see someone actually categorize people like that. - Angie<br />
<br />
The first blog I looked at was " Fredericksburg Remembered The Challenges and adventures of interpreting the history of Fredericksburg, Stafford and Spotslyvania. Overall it is a very good blog focusing on the area and discusses many different Civil War topics that range from Secession, Slavery, John Washington etc. While looking at the various blogs on this website the section I found the most interesting was the section on John Washington. While reading John Washington and the emergence of a voice for Fredericksburg slave I found that statistic provided by David Blight, that out of 9 million slaves only 200 left behind memoirs. What role does a lack of slave memoirs play in determining the remembrance of slaves during the Civil War? -Nick<br />
<br />
The first Blog I looked at was underneath the Cosmic America section, which I was wondering what the heck it even was, entitled "Straight From the Department of Bad Ideas…", and it holds up to its title. It discusses a elementary school teacher who decided it would be a great idea to celebrate the sesquicentennial by dividing her class up in black and white sections and holding a mock slave auction. Mind you this is an elementary school class, not a college or even high school level class, and this was done by a teacher in Norfolk. I found the story very interesting, and the teacher retarded, partially because I never heard about it. The comments on the blog tend to hold my sentiments. - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_13_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 13 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-12T05:10:36Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>One of the posts I came across from the cwmemory.com/archives website was from the "Teaching" category. The author of the site basically talked about one of his students who is creating a historical fiction story and wanted to use some primary sources. A comment was made about the post that argued how historical fiction novels can be such good teaching tools; they allow students to relate to the character and also teaches them facts. Do you see any negative aspects of using historical fiction to teach in school or to teach children about the past (e.g. the Civil War)? -avanness<br />
<br />
Another post from the cwmemory.com/archives section under "Slavery" was interesting. The post was about a black Confederate general, Randall Lee Gibson. He, however, did not support his African American heritage, nor did he even know about it until someone brought it to his attention. He definitely seemed like he was a racist; in that he basically supported lynching and said that the African American race was the most degrading race. I think Gibson's story does make it a little questionable as to whether or not he was anhttp://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_13_Questions/Comments--Tuesday&action=edit actual black general or not since he didn't see himself as black nor did the town. Do you think someone who does not define themselves as African American and even is discriminatory against the race should be seen as a black Confederate general or should the he only be given the title "Confederate general"? -avanness<br />
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This site (http://npsfrsp.wordpress.com/) was pretty interesting. I read a piece on Salem Church and the pictures were cool to see since now today the area looks nothing like it did in the early 20th century. The area is currently surrounded by a residential area and plenty of business. What does these new, modern landscapes take away from the memory of the Civil War? Is it okay to have battlefields and such surrounded by modernity? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
I read a piece on cwmemory.com about Lincoln and the mythology that comes with him. In his post, he talks about an interview with Thomas DiLorenzo and Thomas Woods (and has the video, too) where they list various arguments against Lincoln. He criticizes them for not being aware of the scholarship. This seems to be a reoccurring problem that comes with popular histories (and opinions). How important is it that people are aware of the scholarly literature on a topic (even if they are not a historian nor have the training)? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
On cwmemory.com, I read the post about the governor's confederate history month proclamation. I thought he made an interesting point in that the proclamation encourages people to view Virginia's Civil War history from a national perspective, instead of a Virginia-centered perspective. This would mean that slavery was a national problem, not just a Virginian one and that African Americans from VA who fought in the war defeated slavery with the help of the federal government. I disagreed with the proclamation when it was issued, but the author does make some interesting points about its wording. - Angie<br />
<br />
For today's blog post I read an interesting blog concerning Union Black soldiers. Numerous books written about Union soldiers neglects to mention black Union soldiers that participated in the Union war effort, despite them contributing greatly after 1863. Why do you think the contributions by African Americans are also ignored in the commemoration of Union soldiers? -Nick<br />
<br />
I really liked the graffiti section of the npsfrsp blog site mostly because we tend to think of graffiti as a modern sort of delinquency. These soldiers in Falmouth actually tagged different buildings where they were staying by either carving or making a stencil. It seems weird to compare Civil War soldiers with today's graffiti artists but I guess for both of them, its their way of being remembered or leaving something behind. - Angie<br />
<br />
I decided to look at the category "Civil war memory class" on cwmemory.com. In this section, Kevin Levin discusses his thoughts regarding his class form, content, and the general reactions of the students in his high school civil war memory class. In several posts, Levin seems to be trying to demonstrate that the classroom setting is less polemic than he expected. The comments to nearly all his posts reflect this, and it seemed to be a friendly environment to discuss civil war memory. That was my perception until I arrived at his post, <br />
"States Rights v. Slavery: No discernible difference." In the post, he discusses the backgrounds of his students and how their origins do not seem to reflect a bias in civil war education. In that, he has students from the North that were taught a secessionist point of view, and students from the south who were taught that the war was about slavery. He concludes that the difference of approach is based on the teacher and not the area. Someone reacted to his post in the most ridiculous manner. He had apparently misinterpreted this post to be a defense of the secessionist argument and went on a rant about slavery as the cause. What was fascinating about his posts, was that I had never heard such an extreme and ludicrous take on the slavery argument. This guy kept saying that it's time the truth was taught, and I'm sorry for including such a long quote of this comment but it is so ridiculous that I have to include it here:<br />
"I have watched my kid’s history books over the years (four kids, years apart) and noticed how pathetically poliltically correct they all are. Some even claim the South was trying to free the slaves, in time. None, not one, tell the basic truth that the war camem about because the South’s insane demands for the spread of slavery AGAINST the will of the people. Its not only not mentioned in your text books, various bits of BS are there instead. If you can’t teach the truth — because it’s too awful — don’t teach anything. Don’t teach utter nonsense. I don’t expect grade school children, many who are students at schools named after Robert E Lee, to learn that Lee tortured 13 year old children, and sold their infants, and kept a Hunting List of slave girls, in his own handwriting. I don’t expect them to learn in grade school that Lee was obsessed with the capture of one young girl, and paid six times the normal bounty for her, and then had her tortured, and then sold her baby.<br />
You could wait till high school to teach them these awful truths. But at some point, they should learn. Learn that the Southern leaders insisted God ordained not only slavery, but the torture to DEATH of slave women, and that God ordained even the sexual obedience of slave women to their master." Apparently this guy was blocked from posting to the site after more crazy comments following this one. - aaskins<br />
<br />
There are quite a few articles on Levin's site about the black Confederate soldier myth. It is quite prevalent, and there are a suprisingly large number of groups propagating it. As is pointed out by at least one of the articles, and as can be attested to by some of what we have read this semester, this version of the myth is somewhat recent. It used to be that Lost Causers would talk about the faithful slave attending his master before or after battle; it is only more recently that it became about the brave black soldier going into battle alongside his fellow Southerners. Why the change? And is it progress that blacks have risen within this myth at all? -GStan.<br />
<br />
On the nps website, I looked at the category regarding images of destruction in Fredericksburg. Some of the photographs are quite chilling, especially when I realized that these are sites I drive by everyday. They are unrecognizable. It almost seems as though by restoring these houses and buildings, we have erased a major piece of Civil War memory.- aaskins<br />
<br />
I was very interested in the post about the Stonewall Jackson shrine. It discusses if the Stonewall Jackson shrine should have a different name. Do you think the Stonewall Jackson shrine should be renamed and if it should be renamed what should it be renamed to?- Nick<br />
<br />
Nick, when I first started there, I asked about that, because I too was curious about the choice of wording. I was told that "shrine" is an early 20th century term for an exhibit or museum. I can't count the number of folks who walked in and asked about it, and I'm not entirely convinced that that is a proper explanation of the origin of the term. What does everyone else think? How much stake should we put in that explanation?- DR<br />
<br />
Given the recent textbook debates regarding the number of black Confederates under Stonewall Jackson, I thought it was very interesting to see the Prince William County tourist handbook with a young African American dressed in gray. Did anyone else go back to this article? What did you think? DR<br />
<br />
Was anybody else surprised at the amount of knowledge that was expressed in the comments? I know that their were plenty of crazy people making comments but the majority of people that took the time to write comments wrote them concisely and with plenty of historical fact to back up their statements. These guys are not idiots, they know their stuff. Logan T <br />
<br />
I liked the comments that centered on the debate on West Virginia breaking away from Virginia during the war and if this should be mentioned in the Governors proclamation. One guy brought up the fact that many Southern fire eaters supported the concept of States Rights and nullification but at the same supported the fugtive Slave Law which was a federal law that goes against state rights. How much of these types of arguments are missed in the memory of the war? Why do we forget that politicians 150 years are really no different than ones today? Politicians say one thing and do another. Logan T<br />
<br />
One of the posts I read involved the commemoration of the 150th anniversary of the civil war, and also that of the 10th anniversary of 9/11, specifically the lack of commemoration on the part of the national govt. I hadn't thought about it until I read this article but despite the fact that I've heard much about the 150th anniversary of the civil war in our class, I have heard little to nothing about it anywhere else. It's also interesting that they drew the connection between these two anniversaries occurring together much like the 100th year anniversary of the civil war coincided with our nations bicentennial. - AJ <br />
<br />
The civil war memory site is one that I came across many times when looking for a blog post, I never actually took the time to really look at it much beyond the first page because I was too busy on my quest for each weeks post however. Like Logan mentioned though the comments and posts on this site are well thought out and backed up, it's remarkable that I didn't think to browse over these posts for ideas or simply to learn more. - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-07T07:28:57Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>One theme that we kind of keep coming back to and that i think Horwitz's description of Stone Mountain represents, is the difficulty in balancing political correctness with existing symbols of Confederate pride. Is there a way to balance a fair and modern approach to the history of the south while avoiding socially incendiary messages - and still end up with something meaningful? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 312 Horwitz discusses that when he visited Georgia he expected to see reduced homes with charred chimneys, but once again he learned that much of what he had absorbed of the Civil War was more mythic than factual. If Sherman's march to the sea was more mythic than factual in regards to the destruction committed against the Confederate countryside, why do southerners still view Sherman one of if not the biggest Northern villains of the Civil War? What has taken place currently in Civil War memory that make southerners despite Sherman even more today than the did during the Civil Wars?-Nick<br />
<br />
As Horwitz puts it on page 317 why is the fate of prisoner of wars arguably the most neglected aspect of the Civil War? Over 400,000 men were captured during the war and thousands died of diseases due to harsh conditions at prison camps such as Andersonville.Is it because people want to remember simply neglect the pain and suffering that the prison camps symbolized and spend more of their attention on studying aspects of the war that is not as dark and upsetting?- Nick<br />
<br />
How has Montgomery handled its historical treatment of both the Confederacy and Civil Rights? Is it doing something better than other southern towns? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
In the concluding chapter, Horwitz talks about the Robert Warren Penn essay that argues that memorializing the Civil War is "the ritual of being American." Do you think this explains why people without family connections to the Civil War are still passionate about the War? -MK<br />
<br />
Why do you think that the Robinson house was not preserved as well as the Henry house? How does this change the memory of the Battle of Manassas? -MK<br />
<br />
Horwitz concentrates on Andersonville in the chapter "Still Prisoners of this War" and how in many ways the memory of the soldiers remain prisoners. Do you agree that this idea is completely applicable to the memory of the war as a whole in American history? That it is a prisoner to our interpretations? - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
<br />
Is Atlanta’s sanitation of their history justified? Would it be better if we all sanitized our memory of the Civil War? Would it shorten that memory? R.King<br />
<br />
In what way was the confederacy “an attempt to institute a strict interpretation of the Constitution”? R.King <br />
<br />
Does the fact that most Civil War battlefields are on Southern soil have anything to do with how the National Park Service chooses to interpret the sites? Is it the reason for their reluctance to talk about other aspects of those sites? R.King<br />
<br />
Was I the only one put off by Horwitz's willingness to break onto federal property at night to sleep on the front porch of the Jackson Shrine?-DR<br />
<br />
The whole idea of the Civil "Wargasm" seemed to me to be nothing short of a pilgrimage. Is this comparison a stretch, or do people like Rob Hodge really approach the Civil War with a reverence that approaches fanaticism?- DR<br />
<br />
Well, it's like we talked about on Tuesday, isn't it? The conversation of refusing meals and rest to have a "true" living history of the Civil War while re-enacting? That's how I view it. Some people just really have to go all out to really enjoy such a thing. I have to admit, if it wasn't for the clear issues of legality, there are historically famous places that I would kill to break into. Parthenon, anyone? --Cash<br />
<br />
Like MK, I also thought Horwitz's discussion of the Robert Warren Penn essay was interesting. It seems odd to me that the act of memorializing a time when America was divided and when citizens claimed allegiance to two different countries is such a large part of being an American today.- Angie<br />
<br />
Some would argue, Angie, that we are still two different countries with the issues of race relations. Perhaps it is memorializing as a means of understanding. --Cash<br />
<br />
In the "Prisoners of War" chapter, I think Horwitz makes a good point about how we seemed to have forgotten a large part of the war by forgetting about the prisoners of war. Not only is this important to the history of the war itself, but its also symbolic of how we have forgotten some of the dirtiest yet most significant aspects of the war. Do you think if we remembered the horrible parts of the war instead of just the romantic parts, the war would stop being so commemorated? Would that be a good or bad thing? - Angie<br />
<br />
In reading Confederates In the Attic and our studying the memory of the Civil War one thing that does not seem to be talked about is how far we come in our social norms. Considering what we have learned about the 1860s, 1880s, 1920s, 1930s, 1950s, and the 1960s why don’t we ever acknowledge how quickly American social norms have changed as compared to other nations and other times in history? Logan T<br />
<br />
Rose Sander’s class represents a point of view of the Civil War that I don’t know a name for so will call it Anti Lost Cause. Do you think that this point of view of the Civil War will be come that acceptable version of the Civil War someday? Will there every be moderate view of the war that society will hold? Will there always be extreme versions of the memory the war? Logan T<br />
<br />
Horwitz mentions running into a Japanese tour group while he was with Melly (the Scarlett look-a-like). He suggests several reasons for why the Japanese love Gone With the Wind so much but which one seems most accurate/plausible? -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Anyone else find it remarkable that less than 10 years ago there were several Civil War veteran widows still alive? It shows that even though we've reached the 150th anniversary it still wasn't ''that'' long ago. America's history is relatively young compared to European history. -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Is the heritage movement that different from the Lost Cause? Many Lost Causers defend their view in the name of Southern heritage, so what exactly differentiates the two groups?- aaskins<br />
<br />
With the way that Civil War memory and artifacts are honored and collected, why did Alberta not receive more attention than she did?- aaskins<br />
<br />
On page 313, when Horowitz describes one of the speakers at a Sons of Confederate Veterans meeting, I gained a very different idea of what the SCV meetings were like, especially compared to the meeting from the earlier chapters. Contrary to the earlier meeting which seemed fairly dignified and with a decent amount of cheer later on, this speaker made it seem like the SCV was a bunch of old angry men who got together and whined when they didn't get their way and childishly accused others of being jealous of them. - AJ<br />
<br />
We talked about it briefly last class, but in the end how effective was Horowitz' approach to writing about everything he had learned/ been through? Did his writing style help or hurt his appeal and/or content? - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-04-07T07:23:45Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>One theme that we kind of keep coming back to and that i think Horwitz's description of Stone Mountain represents, is the difficulty in balancing political correctness with existing symbols of Confederate pride. Is there a way to balance a fair and modern approach to the history of the south while avoiding socially incendiary messages - and still end up with something meaningful? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
On page 312 Horwitz discusses that when he visited Georgia he expected to see reduced homes with charred chimneys, but once again he learned that much of what he had absorbed of the Civil War was more mythic than factual. If Sherman's march to the sea was more mythic than factual in regards to the destruction committed against the Confederate countryside, why do southerners still view Sherman one of if not the biggest Northern villains of the Civil War? What has taken place currently in Civil War memory that make southerners despite Sherman even more today than the did during the Civil Wars?-Nick<br />
<br />
As Horwitz puts it on page 317 why is the fate of prisoner of wars arguably the most neglected aspect of the Civil War? Over 400,000 men were captured during the war and thousands died of diseases due to harsh conditions at prison camps such as Andersonville.Is it because people want to remember simply neglect the pain and suffering that the prison camps symbolized and spend more of their attention on studying aspects of the war that is not as dark and upsetting?- Nick<br />
<br />
How has Montgomery handled its historical treatment of both the Confederacy and Civil Rights? Is it doing something better than other southern towns? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
In the concluding chapter, Horwitz talks about the Robert Warren Penn essay that argues that memorializing the Civil War is "the ritual of being American." Do you think this explains why people without family connections to the Civil War are still passionate about the War? -MK<br />
<br />
Why do you think that the Robinson house was not preserved as well as the Henry house? How does this change the memory of the Battle of Manassas? -MK<br />
<br />
Horwitz concentrates on Andersonville in the chapter "Still Prisoners of this War" and how in many ways the memory of the soldiers remain prisoners. Do you agree that this idea is completely applicable to the memory of the war as a whole in American history? That it is a prisoner to our interpretations? - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
<br />
Is Atlanta’s sanitation of their history justified? Would it be better if we all sanitized our memory of the Civil War? Would it shorten that memory? R.King<br />
<br />
In what way was the confederacy “an attempt to institute a strict interpretation of the Constitution”? R.King <br />
<br />
Does the fact that most Civil War battlefields are on Southern soil have anything to do with how the National Park Service chooses to interpret the sites? Is it the reason for their reluctance to talk about other aspects of those sites? R.King<br />
<br />
Was I the only one put off by Horwitz's willingness to break onto federal property at night to sleep on the front porch of the Jackson Shrine?-DR<br />
<br />
The whole idea of the Civil "Wargasm" seemed to me to be nothing short of a pilgrimage. Is this comparison a stretch, or do people like Rob Hodge really approach the Civil War with a reverence that approaches fanaticism?- DR<br />
<br />
Well, it's like we talked about on Tuesday, isn't it? The conversation of refusing meals and rest to have a "true" living history of the Civil War while re-enacting? That's how I view it. Some people just really have to go all out to really enjoy such a thing. I have to admit, if it wasn't for the clear issues of legality, there are historically famous places that I would kill to break into. Parthenon, anyone? --Cash<br />
<br />
Like MK, I also thought Horwitz's discussion of the Robert Warren Penn essay was interesting. It seems odd to me that the act of memorializing a time when America was divided and when citizens claimed allegiance to two different countries is such a large part of being an American today.- Angie<br />
<br />
Some would argue, Angie, that we are still two different countries with the issues of race relations. Perhaps it is memorializing as a means of understanding. --Cash<br />
<br />
In the "Prisoners of War" chapter, I think Horwitz makes a good point about how we seemed to have forgotten a large part of the war by forgetting about the prisoners of war. Not only is this important to the history of the war itself, but its also symbolic of how we have forgotten some of the dirtiest yet most significant aspects of the war. Do you think if we remembered the horrible parts of the war instead of just the romantic parts, the war would stop being so commemorated? Would that be a good or bad thing? - Angie<br />
<br />
In reading Confederates In the Attic and our studying the memory of the Civil War one thing that does not seem to be talked about is how far we come in our social norms. Considering what we have learned about the 1860s, 1880s, 1920s, 1930s, 1950s, and the 1960s why don’t we ever acknowledge how quickly American social norms have changed as compared to other nations and other times in history? Logan T<br />
<br />
Rose Sander’s class represents a point of view of the Civil War that I don’t know a name for so will call it Anti Lost Cause. Do you think that this point of view of the Civil War will be come that acceptable version of the Civil War someday? Will there every be moderate view of the war that society will hold? Will there always be extreme versions of the memory the war? Logan T<br />
<br />
Horwitz mentions running into a Japanese tour group while he was with Melly (the Scarlett look-a-like). He suggests several reasons for why the Japanese love Gone With the Wind so much but which one seems most accurate/plausible? -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Anyone else find it remarkable that less than 10 years ago there were several Civil War veteran widows still alive? It shows that even though we've reached the 150th anniversary it still wasn't ''that'' long ago. America's history is relatively young compared to European history. -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Is the heritage movement that different from the Lost Cause? Many Lost Causers defend their view in the name of Southern heritage, so what exactly differentiates the two groups?- aaskins<br />
<br />
With the way that Civil War memory and artifacts are honored and collected, why did Alberta not receive more attention than she did?- aaskins<br />
<br />
On page 313, when Horowitz describes one of the speakers at a Sons of Confederate Veterans meeting, I gained a very different idea of what the SCV meetings were like, especially compared to the meeting from the earlier chapters. Contrary to the earlier meeting which seemed fairly dignified and with a decent amount of cheer later on, this speaker made it seem like the SCV was a bunch of old angry men who got together and whined when they didn't get their way and childishly accused others of being jealous of them. - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-05T03:18:31Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>One of the most interesting people Horwitz meets - and certainly one of the most provocative - was Walt, the cable-box repairing, Star Trek-loving, anti-Semitic vegetarian. Walt's extremism and white supremacist ideas evolved out of the tumultuous politics of the 1960s and a lack of faith in government. For Walt, the Confederacy represented subjected peoples around the world and he fit them into an obsessive, self-deduced picture of the conspiracies that run the world. Naturally, Walt is a crazy person, but does this progression from the unrest of the 1960s to a neoconfederate position have some kind of linear path? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
How does the grandson of a Russian Jew from "between Minsk and Pinsk" get interested in the Confederacy? R.King<br />
<br />
On page 149 Shelby Foote talks about the "difference between North and South", is this 'difference' why the South still clings to the memory of the Civil War and believes such a distorted history of the event? R. King<br />
<br />
While Horwitz is in Vicksburg, he notices a different kind of racial divide than he saw in some other places. What is different about the culture of Vicksburg? Or is any place in the South a Guthrie waiting to happen? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
When Horwitz is talking to the African American preacher Michael King, he asks him "if there was any way that white Southerns to honor their forebears without insulting his." King responded with: "Remember you ancestors, but remember what they fought for too. and recognize it was wrong." (pg. 44) I was just curious what yall's thoughts on this was... -MK <br />
<br />
In Chapter 6, Horwitz is at the reenactment of the Battle of Wilderness. He discusses some of the draws for reenactors to either fight for the North or South. One of the reasons for siding with the South was "Americans' instinctive allegiance to underdogs." (pg. 136) How much do you think this plays into the general public's minds about the South? -MK<br />
<br />
Before reading this book, I never realized how hardcore some Confederate re-enactors really were, although it does seem to be the select few. These guys, like Hodge, try really hard to get everything exactly right and are willing to re-enact in the dreariest of weather conditions. It makes me wonder, if they try so hard to get the clothes, rations, and battles exactly right, do they try really hard to get the political or social history of the war right as well? - Angie<br />
<br />
After our recent discussion of the Confederate battle flag, the section on Michael Westerman, the man with the flag on his truck who was killed in Kentucky, really struck me. I think that this shooting really shows how controversial and dangerous this symbol has become. Horwitz says that during the war, the majority of that county did not even support the Confederacy. The flag seemed to have no real history in the place, yet it became an enormous problem anyways. - Angie<br />
<br />
What is the reason for the continued care and devotion southerners show to the civil war, as seen through Horowitz's many travels? (Family, history highs, religion, way of life, etc)- AJ<br />
<br />
Is Reenacting truly the "most popular vehicle for civil war remembrance" as Horwitz states on pg 126, or is it just one vehicle? It's hard to discount media, even if it has to be narrowed into subcategories of movies, internet,etc, as a huge vehicle for civil war remembrance. - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_12_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 12 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-04-05T03:14:45Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>One of the most interesting people Horwitz meets - and certainly one of the most provocative - was Walt, the cable-box repairing, Star Trek-loving, anti-Semitic vegetarian. Walt's extremism and white supremacist ideas evolved out of the tumultuous politics of the 1960s and a lack of faith in government. For Walt, the Confederacy represented subjected peoples around the world and he fit them into an obsessive, self-deduced picture of the conspiracies that run the world. Naturally, Walt is a crazy person, but does this progression from the unrest of the 1960s to a neoconfederate position have some kind of linear path? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
How does the grandson of a Russian Jew from "between Minsk and Pinsk" get interested in the Confederacy? R.King<br />
<br />
On page 149 Shelby Foote talks about the "difference between North and South", is this 'difference' why the South still clings to the memory of the Civil War and believes such a distorted history of the event? R. King<br />
<br />
While Horwitz is in Vicksburg, he notices a different kind of racial divide than he saw in some other places. What is different about the culture of Vicksburg? Or is any place in the South a Guthrie waiting to happen? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
When Horwitz is talking to the African American preacher Michael King, he asks him "if there was any way that white Southerns to honor their forebears without insulting his." King responded with: "Remember you ancestors, but remember what they fought for too. and recognize it was wrong." (pg. 44) I was just curious what yall's thoughts on this was... -MK <br />
<br />
In Chapter 6, Horwitz is at the reenactment of the Battle of Wilderness. He discusses some of the draws for reenactors to either fight for the North or South. One of the reasons for siding with the South was "Americans' instinctive allegiance to underdogs." (pg. 136) How much do you think this plays into the general public's minds about the South? -MK<br />
<br />
Before reading this book, I never realized how hardcore some Confederate re-enactors really were, although it does seem to be the select few. These guys, like Hodge, try really hard to get everything exactly right and are willing to re-enact in the dreariest of weather conditions. It makes me wonder, if they try so hard to get the clothes, rations, and battles exactly right, do they try really hard to get the political or social history of the war right as well? - Angie<br />
<br />
After our recent discussion of the Confederate battle flag, the section on Michael Westerman, the man with the flag on his truck who was killed in Kentucky, really struck me. I think that this shooting really shows how controversial and dangerous this symbol has become. Horwitz says that during the war, the majority of that county did not even support the Confederacy. The flag seemed to have no real history in the place, yet it became an enormous problem anyways. - Angie<br />
<br />
What is the reason for the continued care and devotion southerners show to the civil war, as seen through Horowitz's many travels? (Family, history highs, religion, way of life, etc)- AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_11_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 11 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-29T07:38:39Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>In Chadwick's article, he mentions that Griffith never truly understood the impact of ''Birth of a Nation.'' Do you believe that? -MK<br />
<br />
I'll believe that the same way I'll believe that Leni Riefenstahl didn't know the impact of Triumph of the Will. (Sorry. The Godwin Law is based on internet discourse, though...) --Cash<br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article- he says that it yet to be seen whether or not the Lost Cause will be vanquished in modern-day films about the Civil War. Do you think that the Lost Cause rhetoric still plays a big role in people's memory and understanding of the Civil War or has it pretty much faded out? -MK<br />
<br />
<br />
On page 134, Bruce Chadwick explains how many critics and ministers believed Birth of a Nation to be a true story. Many argued for a mandatory showing of the movie in schools and parents should also take their children to see this film; "any parent who neglects this advice is committing an educational offense." How do you think making this a mandatory showing could influence children's and others' thoughts about the Civil War and reconstruction? Keep in mind how Margaret Mitchell was influenced by the movie. -avanness<br />
<br />
I think it's the same way any young kid can be influenced. My question is, what does this prove, outside of appeasing a few Lost Causers? Outside of a sick 50th anniversary commemoration of the end of the war, I just don't understand how teaching Birth of a Nation was even a productive discourse on the war. Is it a matter of "he who forgets will be destined to remember?" (Again, Pearl Jam. Again, sorry.) --Cash<br />
<br />
What problems or issues can arise when adapting a novel to a film? For example, Margaret Mitchell wrote her novel geared more towards a Southern white audience. Filmmakers thought this "confederate view" could interfere with the romance of the film so changes were made. The most prevalent being the subject of race. -avanness<br />
<br />
Chadwick says that many critics of "Birth of a Nation" argued that it completely (and obviously) ignored the real history of the war. He then goes on to say that this did not matter, because audiences were more concerned with the romantic portrayal of the war anyways. Why do you think audiences cared more about the romanticism? Why didn't they want or care about having more accurate information? - Angie<br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article, I found the difference between the portrayal of slaves in the lost cause films and anti-lost cause films incredible. I always assumed that the portrayal and perception of their role in the war had changed gradually, but it actually did not. In fact, in 1959, there was a film put out about loyal slaves and in 1965 there was a film about anti-slave southerners. The change seems to be abrupt and dramatic. Gallagher attributes it to the Civil Rights movement and Act of 1964, which makes complete sense. - Angie<br />
<br />
How did Griffith combine the numerous Civil War memory themes into one movie? What radical steps did Birth of a Nation take that separated the film from other films that were produced during the early 20th century?- Nick<br />
<br />
Chadwick describes Thomas Dixon's book as being "wholly fictional", do you think Dixon viewed it that way? - R. King<br />
<br />
Why did D.W. Griffith change the name of his film from "The Clansman" to "Birth of a Nation", was it as Chadwick states the idea of Thomas Dixon after viewing the film or was it simply that the the original title was seen as the cause of the protests? R.King<br />
<br />
Chadwick notes on page 128 that Griffith "made history fit his vision" rather than the other way around. How far is too far when stretching or recreating history to make a movie or "fitting a vision" like Griffith? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Cullen spends a good amount of time talking about race and class in ''Gone With the Wind.'' He also mentions how Marshall wrote primarily for a white, southern audience. How much of an impact did this have on her work? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
These articles are great reading companions for our recent movie assignment. Chadwick rightly discusses in his article how film presents radically distorted views of the Civil War, perhaps more so than any other gateway of popular memory. Putting ''Birth of a Nation'' aside, which films do you consider to present the most distorted views of the Civil War?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Is the Lost Cause or is the North more glorified in Civil War cinema?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Cullen describes the South as having been tainted for generations by Uncle Tom's Cabin. Most of what we have read for this class has implied the opposite; the image most of the country had of the antebellum South was rather romantic. Did GWTW really change people's ideas about the South? Or was it a reflection of them? -GStan.<br />
<br />
How did the film Shenandoah shifts movies made about the Civil War? Civil War movies before Shenandoah were primarily concerned with reconciliation and Lost cause themes, so why was there not many film concerning emancipationist themes?-Nick<br />
<br />
Do you think that since Birth of a Nation was successful that it paved the way for another long Civil War movie, Gone with the Wind, to be made 15 or so years later? -Megan Mc<br />
<br />
Looking at the shift in Civil War movies over time, what do you think the future hold for Civil War movies? -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
The first reading talks about how Birth of a Nation used real cowboys from California as extras. Does the fact that most movies and documentaries about the Civil War are filmed in California affect our memory of the war? Have ya’ll noticed that the California landscape in the background of most movies makes it seem like the Civil War was fought in the New Mexico desert? Most Civil War movies have a western feel, why? Logan T<br />
<br />
Do you agree that the Lost Cause will be gone from cinema? Do you think the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Libya means that there won’t be another movie made about the Civil War for another 15 years? Do you think that a movie made about the Civil War now will over compensate for the Lost Cause like Cold Mountain did? Do you think the South will be demonized in all future movies made about the Civil War? Logan T<br />
<br />
What was the public response to Woodrow Wilson's supposed remarks about the movie, such as it's historical accuracy or that the Union attacked the confederacy, rather than defended the Union? Did his reported remarks receive a great deal of lashback from the public? - AJ L.<br />
<br />
Birth of a Nation has been a highly debated and criticized film because of it's highly inaccurate depiction of history and blacks in general. The fact that those in charge of the film "researched" all the material and it was supposedly historically accurate have not helped its case at all. Has this film, among other things, helped contribute to a more standardized approach among historian in using scholarly research, and conversly did it open the road, right in the beginning of film making, for movies to be historically inaccurate? - AJ L</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_11_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 11 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-29T07:34:09Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>In Chadwick's article, he mentions that Griffith never truly understood the impact of ''Birth of a Nation.'' Do you believe that? -MK<br />
<br />
I'll believe that the same way I'll believe that Leni Riefenstahl didn't know the impact of Triumph of the Will. (Sorry. The Godwin Law is based on internet discourse, though...) --Cash<br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article- he says that it yet to be seen whether or not the Lost Cause will be vanquished in modern-day films about the Civil War. Do you think that the Lost Cause rhetoric still plays a big role in people's memory and understanding of the Civil War or has it pretty much faded out? -MK<br />
<br />
<br />
On page 134, Bruce Chadwick explains how many critics and ministers believed Birth of a Nation to be a true story. Many argued for a mandatory showing of the movie in schools and parents should also take their children to see this film; "any parent who neglects this advice is committing an educational offense." How do you think making this a mandatory showing could influence children's and others' thoughts about the Civil War and reconstruction? Keep in mind how Margaret Mitchell was influenced by the movie. -avanness<br />
<br />
I think it's the same way any young kid can be influenced. My question is, what does this prove, outside of appeasing a few Lost Causers? Outside of a sick 50th anniversary commemoration of the end of the war, I just don't understand how teaching Birth of a Nation was even a productive discourse on the war. Is it a matter of "he who forgets will be destined to remember?" (Again, Pearl Jam. Again, sorry.) --Cash<br />
<br />
What problems or issues can arise when adapting a novel to a film? For example, Margaret Mitchell wrote her novel geared more towards a Southern white audience. Filmmakers thought this "confederate view" could interfere with the romance of the film so changes were made. The most prevalent being the subject of race. -avanness<br />
<br />
Chadwick says that many critics of "Birth of a Nation" argued that it completely (and obviously) ignored the real history of the war. He then goes on to say that this did not matter, because audiences were more concerned with the romantic portrayal of the war anyways. Why do you think audiences cared more about the romanticism? Why didn't they want or care about having more accurate information? - Angie<br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article, I found the difference between the portrayal of slaves in the lost cause films and anti-lost cause films incredible. I always assumed that the portrayal and perception of their role in the war had changed gradually, but it actually did not. In fact, in 1959, there was a film put out about loyal slaves and in 1965 there was a film about anti-slave southerners. The change seems to be abrupt and dramatic. Gallagher attributes it to the Civil Rights movement and Act of 1964, which makes complete sense. - Angie<br />
<br />
How did Griffith combine the numerous Civil War memory themes into one movie? What radical steps did Birth of a Nation take that separated the film from other films that were produced during the early 20th century?- Nick<br />
<br />
Chadwick describes Thomas Dixon's book as being "wholly fictional", do you think Dixon viewed it that way? - R. King<br />
<br />
Why did D.W. Griffith change the name of his film from "The Clansman" to "Birth of a Nation", was it as Chadwick states the idea of Thomas Dixon after viewing the film or was it simply that the the original title was seen as the cause of the protests? R.King<br />
<br />
Chadwick notes on page 128 that Griffith "made history fit his vision" rather than the other way around. How far is too far when stretching or recreating history to make a movie or "fitting a vision" like Griffith? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Cullen spends a good amount of time talking about race and class in ''Gone With the Wind.'' He also mentions how Marshall wrote primarily for a white, southern audience. How much of an impact did this have on her work? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
These articles are great reading companions for our recent movie assignment. Chadwick rightly discusses in his article how film presents radically distorted views of the Civil War, perhaps more so than any other gateway of popular memory. Putting ''Birth of a Nation'' aside, which films do you consider to present the most distorted views of the Civil War?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Is the Lost Cause or is the North more glorified in Civil War cinema?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Cullen describes the South as having been tainted for generations by Uncle Tom's Cabin. Most of what we have read for this class has implied the opposite; the image most of the country had of the antebellum South was rather romantic. Did GWTW really change people's ideas about the South? Or was it a reflection of them? -GStan.<br />
<br />
How did the film Shenandoah shifts movies made about the Civil War? Civil War movies before Shenandoah were primarily concerned with reconciliation and Lost cause themes, so why was there not many film concerning emancipationist themes?-Nick<br />
<br />
Do you think that since Birth of a Nation was successful that it paved the way for another long Civil War movie, Gone with the Wind, to be made 15 or so years later? -Megan Mc<br />
<br />
Looking at the shift in Civil War movies over time, what do you think the future hold for Civil War movies? -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
The first reading talks about how Birth of a Nation used real cowboys from California as extras. Does the fact that most movies and documentaries about the Civil War are filmed in California affect our memory of the war? Have ya’ll noticed that the California landscape in the background of most movies makes it seem like the Civil War was fought in the New Mexico desert? Most Civil War movies have a western feel, why? Logan T<br />
<br />
Do you agree that the Lost Cause will be gone from cinema? Do you think the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Libya means that there won’t be another movie made about the Civil War for another 15 years? Do you think that a movie made about the Civil War now will over compensate for the Lost Cause like Cold Mountain did? Do you think the South will be demonized in all future movies made about the Civil War? Logan T<br />
<br />
What was the public response to Woodrow Wilson's supposed remarks about the movie, such as it's historical accuracy or that the Union attacked the confederacy, rather than defended the Union? Did his reported remarks receive a great deal of lashback from the public? - AJ L.</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_11_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 11 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-29T07:28:39Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>In Chadwick's article, he mentions that Griffith never truly understood the impact of ''Birth of a Nation.'' Do you believe that? -MK<br />
<br />
I'll believe that the same way I'll believe that Leni Riefenstahl didn't know the impact of Triumph of the Will. (Sorry. The Godwin Law is based on internet discourse, though...) --Cash<br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article- he says that it yet to be seen whether or not the Lost Cause will be vanquished in modern-day films about the Civil War. Do you think that the Lost Cause rhetoric still plays a big role in people's memory and understanding of the Civil War or has it pretty much faded out? -MK<br />
<br />
<br />
On page 134, Bruce Chadwick explains how many critics and ministers believed Birth of a Nation to be a true story. Many argued for a mandatory showing of the movie in schools and parents should also take their children to see this film; "any parent who neglects this advice is committing an educational offense." How do you think making this a mandatory showing could influence children's and others' thoughts about the Civil War and reconstruction? Keep in mind how Margaret Mitchell was influenced by the movie. -avanness<br />
<br />
I think it's the same way any young kid can be influenced. My question is, what does this prove, outside of appeasing a few Lost Causers? Outside of a sick 50th anniversary commemoration of the end of the war, I just don't understand how teaching Birth of a Nation was even a productive discourse on the war. Is it a matter of "he who forgets will be destined to remember?" (Again, Pearl Jam. Again, sorry.) --Cash<br />
<br />
What problems or issues can arise when adapting a novel to a film? For example, Margaret Mitchell wrote her novel geared more towards a Southern white audience. Filmmakers thought this "confederate view" could interfere with the romance of the film so changes were made. The most prevalent being the subject of race. -avanness<br />
<br />
Chadwick says that many critics of "Birth of a Nation" argued that it completely (and obviously) ignored the real history of the war. He then goes on to say that this did not matter, because audiences were more concerned with the romantic portrayal of the war anyways. Why do you think audiences cared more about the romanticism? Why didn't they want or care about having more accurate information? - Angie<br />
<br />
In Gallagher's article, I found the difference between the portrayal of slaves in the lost cause films and anti-lost cause films incredible. I always assumed that the portrayal and perception of their role in the war had changed gradually, but it actually did not. In fact, in 1959, there was a film put out about loyal slaves and in 1965 there was a film about anti-slave southerners. The change seems to be abrupt and dramatic. Gallagher attributes it to the Civil Rights movement and Act of 1964, which makes complete sense. - Angie<br />
<br />
How did Griffith combine the numerous Civil War memory themes into one movie? What radical steps did Birth of a Nation take that separated the film from other films that were produced during the early 20th century?- Nick<br />
<br />
Chadwick describes Thomas Dixon's book as being "wholly fictional", do you think Dixon viewed it that way? - R. King<br />
<br />
Why did D.W. Griffith change the name of his film from "The Clansman" to "Birth of a Nation", was it as Chadwick states the idea of Thomas Dixon after viewing the film or was it simply that the the original title was seen as the cause of the protests? R.King<br />
<br />
Chadwick notes on page 128 that Griffith "made history fit his vision" rather than the other way around. How far is too far when stretching or recreating history to make a movie or "fitting a vision" like Griffith? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Cullen spends a good amount of time talking about race and class in ''Gone With the Wind.'' He also mentions how Marshall wrote primarily for a white, southern audience. How much of an impact did this have on her work? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
These articles are great reading companions for our recent movie assignment. Chadwick rightly discusses in his article how film presents radically distorted views of the Civil War, perhaps more so than any other gateway of popular memory. Putting ''Birth of a Nation'' aside, which films do you consider to present the most distorted views of the Civil War?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Is the Lost Cause or is the North more glorified in Civil War cinema?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Cullen describes the South as having been tainted for generations by Uncle Tom's Cabin. Most of what we have read for this class has implied the opposite; the image most of the country had of the antebellum South was rather romantic. Did GWTW really change people's ideas about the South? Or was it a reflection of them? -GStan.<br />
<br />
How did the film Shenandoah shifts movies made about the Civil War? Civil War movies before Shenandoah were primarily concerned with reconciliation and Lost cause themes, so why was there not many film concerning emancipationist themes?-Nick<br />
<br />
Do you think that since Birth of a Nation was successful that it paved the way for another long Civil War movie, Gone with the Wind, to be made 15 or so years later? -Megan Mc<br />
<br />
Looking at the shift in Civil War movies over time, what do you think the future hold for Civil War movies? -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
The first reading talks about how Birth of a Nation used real cowboys from California as extras. Does the fact that most movies and documentaries about the Civil War are filmed in California affect our memory of the war? Have ya’ll noticed that the California landscape in the background of most movies makes it seem like the Civil War was fought in the New Mexico desert? Most Civil War movies have a western feel, why? Logan T<br />
<br />
Do you agree that the Lost Cause will be gone from cinema? Do you think the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Libya means that there won’t be another movie made about the Civil War for another 15 years? Do you think that a movie made about the Civil War now will over compensate for the Lost Cause like Cold Mountain did? Do you think the South will be demonized in all future movies made about the Civil War? Logan T<br />
<br />
What was the public response to Woodrow Wilson's remarks about the movie, and the Union "attack" of the south in general? Did his remarks receive a great deal of lashback from the public? - AJ L.</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-03-17T11:19:27Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>Did the Civil War bring the US economy into the industrial age or did the war slow down economic growth and development? This question has proven to be quite controversial over the last 150 years, and historians like other Civil War topics have not comer to a consensus about this question. Overall what was the Civil Wars' impact on the US economy?- Nick J.<br />
<br />
Faust states that "nearly a century has failed to resolve debate about the war's impact on women, but the centrality of this question to the concerns of contemporary feminism suggest that it is unlikely to be abandoned as a framework for viewing women's experiences between 1861 and 1865." (239). What types historiography do you think will appear in the future surrounding women's roles during the Civil War? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
In the introduction, McPherson and Cooper point out that there are still gaps in the historiography and that some issues need to be further studied, such as the role of religion in the Union and Confederacy. Do you think that historians will be successful in addressing these gaps? Why do you think that these topics have not had sufficient treatment? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
I think the social history aspect of the Civil War is interesting. McPherson and Cooper mention it in the introduction. This focus of the civil war includes gender, race, and class. Why do you think these aspects of the war take so long to get discussed especially by historians and authors? -avanness<br />
<br />
Gary Gallagher discusses the Northern military strategy in his piece. He says that a historian named T. Harry Williams believes that the Northern generals were not "that great" because they were into more of the maneuvering rather than fighting. Do you agree? -avanness<br />
<br />
The Roark essay made it pretty clear that the main downfall of the confederacy was the lack of a cohesive economic plan. Was it inevitable that the confederacy would fail because of their reliance on States rights over a strong centralized government? R. King<br />
<br />
Yes. Logan <br />
<br />
I was struck by the lack of historiography on the trials and tribulations of lower class women, even though they made up the majority of those affected by the war. Does the difficulty lie in illiteracy; that these women didn’t or couldn’t write about their troubles? Or is it simply that the upper classes are more interesting to write about? R. King<br />
<br />
Why do academics use words like “tendentious”? R.King<br />
<br />
In Reid Mitchell's article "Not the General" But the General: The studying of Civil War Generals and on the first page Reid states that despite the status the status of Lee, Grant and Sherman among American generals, the war was not won by strategic brilliance. Both sides displayed roughly the same level of competence, and both thought about the matter militarily in the same way. What do you think of Mitchell's statement? Did the North and the South think about military matters the same way as Mitchell suggests or did the think about militarily affairs differently? Personally I think they thought about it differently and I believe that this is an important topic to bring up in class on Thursday. Nick J<br />
<br />
Mitchell talks about the culture of Northern and Southern culture. He talks about sometimes it was a shared cultural but that they were still fundamentally different. We've talked about the various cultures of the North and South but not focused directly on the soldiers. What did yall make of this? -MK<br />
<br />
Gallagher and Kolchin both mention the self-liberation of the slaves during the civil war. Who did yall think actually freed the slaves? Can it be attributed to one group or person? -MK<br />
<br />
Really, how much of the gaps in the historiography can be filled? I feel like there are not that many more primary documents to be found. I'm not saying that everything that was saved by veterans/family members of soldiers were found, but the likelihood of finding new documents 150 years later seems, unfortunately, low. -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Why is there so little mention of Female Soldiers in Faust's article? He says that two of the authors left out the topic because they did not see the women as 'real' women but why did Faust? I know there have been books written solely on the subject. -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
Perhaps a literature review of the Civil War would be a good thing? What is out there, and how it is presented, may help us to examine the War in a different way. -DR<br />
<br />
In a similar vein, have we stagnated in our approach to interpretation of the Civil War? Are we so over-saturated with information that finding anything new would prove next to impossible?- DR<br />
<br />
It seems like a bit of a stretch to call the Civil War the first "Total War." Whether or not it was a total war, it little resembled the World Wars, and worse things had been done to civilians and infrastructure in past conflicts. What is it about the way we remember it that so often leads us to label it as the very first of its kind, one that set a precedent for all the wars to come? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Why was there such a strong feeling of nationhood among so many confederate soldiers, after only a very short period of independence? Had Southerners always felt so independent, or was there sense of separateness a more recent development? -GStan.<br />
<br />
How much of our memory of the Civil War is influenced by the types of books that we read bout the war? I know my perception of the war is different from a couple years ago because of the new books I read. Have you noticed some books about military aspects get facts about politics wrong while books written about politics get military aspects wrong? Logan T<br />
<br />
How many of the debates about the Civil War are problems with definitions. Gallagher talks about the problem with defining the concept of total war. Gallagher main point is on Union War strategy. Is the debate over if the South could have won the war a debate of defining winning? The South could not have defeated the North in the same way the North defeated the South but does that mean the South could not have won? Logan T<br />
<br />
Why do you think White commanders of the USCT would want command of the colored troops during the war, and were willing to endure social ostracism for it, but turned their back on them when it came to equal rights after the war? Wouldn't they be more likely to support equal rights? - AJ<br />
<br />
How widespread was the "Robin hood pattern" that Blair talks about in behind the lines? Was there actually a significant amount of generosity on the part of the planters? or was it only a few here and there? - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-03-17T11:19:11Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>Did the Civil War bring the US economy into the industrial age or did the war slow down economic growth and development? This question has proven to be quite controversial over the last 150 years, and historians like other Civil War topics have not comer to a consensus about this question. Overall what was the Civil Wars' impact on the US economy?- Nick J.<br />
<br />
Faust states that "nearly a century has failed to resolve debate about the war's impact on women, but the centrality of this question to the concerns of contemporary feminism suggest that it is unlikely to be abandoned as a framework for viewing women's experiences between 1861 and 1865." (239). What types historiography do you think will appear in the future surrounding women's roles during the Civil War? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
In the introduction, McPherson and Cooper point out that there are still gaps in the historiography and that some issues need to be further studied, such as the role of religion in the Union and Confederacy. Do you think that historians will be successful in addressing these gaps? Why do you think that these topics have not had sufficient treatment? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
I think the social history aspect of the Civil War is interesting. McPherson and Cooper mention it in the introduction. This focus of the civil war includes gender, race, and class. Why do you think these aspects of the war take so long to get discussed especially by historians and authors? -avanness<br />
<br />
Gary Gallagher discusses the Northern military strategy in his piece. He says that a historian named T. Harry Williams believes that the Northern generals were not "that great" because they were into more of the maneuvering rather than fighting. Do you agree? -avanness<br />
<br />
The Roark essay made it pretty clear that the main downfall of the confederacy was the lack of a cohesive economic plan. Was it inevitable that the confederacy would fail because of their reliance on States rights over a strong centralized government? R. King<br />
<br />
Yes. Logan <br />
<br />
I was struck by the lack of historiography on the trials and tribulations of lower class women, even though they made up the majority of those affected by the war. Does the difficulty lie in illiteracy; that these women didn’t or couldn’t write about their troubles? Or is it simply that the upper classes are more interesting to write about? R. King<br />
<br />
Why do academics use words like “tendentious”? R.King<br />
<br />
In Reid Mitchell's article "Not the General" But the General: The studying of Civil War Generals and on the first page Reid states that despite the status the status of Lee, Grant and Sherman among American generals, the war was not won by strategic brilliance. Both sides displayed roughly the same level of competence, and both thought about the matter militarily in the same way. What do you think of Mitchell's statement? Did the North and the South think about military matters the same way as Mitchell suggests or did the think about militarily affairs differently? Personally I think they thought about it differently and I believe that this is an important topic to bring up in class on Thursday. Nick J<br />
<br />
Mitchell talks about the culture of Northern and Southern culture. He talks about sometimes it was a shared cultural but that they were still fundamentally different. We've talked about the various cultures of the North and South but not focused directly on the soldiers. What did yall make of this? -MK<br />
<br />
Gallagher and Kolchin both mention the self-liberation of the slaves during the civil war. Who did yall think actually freed the slaves? Can it be attributed to one group or person? -MK<br />
<br />
Really, how much of the gaps in the historiography can be filled? I feel like there are not that many more primary documents to be found. I'm not saying that everything that was saved by veterans/family members of soldiers were found, but the likelihood of finding new documents 150 years later seems, unfortunately, low. -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Why is there so little mention of Female Soldiers in Faust's article? He says that two of the authors left out the topic because they did not see the women as 'real' women but why did Faust? I know there have been books written solely on the subject. -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
Perhaps a literature review of the Civil War would be a good thing? What is out there, and how it is presented, may help us to examine the War in a different way. -DR<br />
<br />
In a similar vein, have we stagnated in our approach to interpretation of the Civil War? Are we so over-saturated with information that finding anything new would prove next to impossible?- DR<br />
<br />
It seems like a bit of a stretch to call the Civil War the first "Total War." Whether or not it was a total war, it little resembled the World Wars, and worse things had been done to civilians and infrastructure in past conflicts. What is it about the way we remember it that so often leads us to label it as the very first of its kind, one that set a precedent for all the wars to come? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Why was there such a strong feeling of nationhood among so many confederate soldiers, after only a very short period of independence? Had Southerners always felt so independent, or was there sense of separateness a more recent development? -GStan.<br />
<br />
How much of our memory of the Civil War is influenced by the types of books that we read bout the war? I know my perception of the war is different from a couple years ago because of the new books I read. Have you noticed some books about military aspects get facts about politics wrong while books written about politics get military aspects wrong? Logan T<br />
<br />
How many of the debates about the Civil War are problems with definitions. Gallagher talks about the problem with defining the concept of total war. Gallagher main point is on Union War strategy. Is the debate over if the South could have won the war a debate of defining winning? The South could not have defeated the North in the same way the North defeated the South but does that mean the South could not have won? Logan T<br />
<br />
Why do you think White commanders of the USCT would want command of the colored troops during the war, and were willing to endure social ostracism for it, but turned their back on them when it came to equal rights after the war? Wouldn't they be more likely to support equal rights? - AJ<br />
<br />
How widespread was the "Robin hood pattern" that Blair talks about in behind the lines? Was there actually a significant amount of generosity on the part of the planters? or was it only a few here and there</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-03-17T11:05:05Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>Did the Civil War bring the US economy into the industrial age or did the war slow down economic growth and development? This question has proven to be quite controversial over the last 150 years, and historians like other Civil War topics have not comer to a consensus about this question. Overall what was the Civil Wars' impact on the US economy?- Nick J.<br />
<br />
Faust states that "nearly a century has failed to resolve debate about the war's impact on women, but the centrality of this question to the concerns of contemporary feminism suggest that it is unlikely to be abandoned as a framework for viewing women's experiences between 1861 and 1865." (239). What types historiography do you think will appear in the future surrounding women's roles during the Civil War? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
In the introduction, McPherson and Cooper point out that there are still gaps in the historiography and that some issues need to be further studied, such as the role of religion in the Union and Confederacy. Do you think that historians will be successful in addressing these gaps? Why do you think that these topics have not had sufficient treatment? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
I think the social history aspect of the Civil War is interesting. McPherson and Cooper mention it in the introduction. This focus of the civil war includes gender, race, and class. Why do you think these aspects of the war take so long to get discussed especially by historians and authors? -avanness<br />
<br />
Gary Gallagher discusses the Northern military strategy in his piece. He says that a historian named T. Harry Williams believes that the Northern generals were not "that great" because they were into more of the maneuvering rather than fighting. Do you agree? -avanness<br />
<br />
The Roark essay made it pretty clear that the main downfall of the confederacy was the lack of a cohesive economic plan. Was it inevitable that the confederacy would fail because of their reliance on States rights over a strong centralized government? R. King<br />
<br />
Yes. Logan <br />
<br />
I was struck by the lack of historiography on the trials and tribulations of lower class women, even though they made up the majority of those affected by the war. Does the difficulty lie in illiteracy; that these women didn’t or couldn’t write about their troubles? Or is it simply that the upper classes are more interesting to write about? R. King<br />
<br />
Why do academics use words like “tendentious”? R.King<br />
<br />
In Reid Mitchell's article "Not the General" But the General: The studying of Civil War Generals and on the first page Reid states that despite the status the status of Lee, Grant and Sherman among American generals, the war was not won by strategic brilliance. Both sides displayed roughly the same level of competence, and both thought about the matter militarily in the same way. What do you think of Mitchell's statement? Did the North and the South think about military matters the same way as Mitchell suggests or did the think about militarily affairs differently? Personally I think they thought about it differently and I believe that this is an important topic to bring up in class on Thursday. Nick J<br />
<br />
Mitchell talks about the culture of Northern and Southern culture. He talks about sometimes it was a shared cultural but that they were still fundamentally different. We've talked about the various cultures of the North and South but not focused directly on the soldiers. What did yall make of this? -MK<br />
<br />
Gallagher and Kolchin both mention the self-liberation of the slaves during the civil war. Who did yall think actually freed the slaves? Can it be attributed to one group or person? -MK<br />
<br />
Really, how much of the gaps in the historiography can be filled? I feel like there are not that many more primary documents to be found. I'm not saying that everything that was saved by veterans/family members of soldiers were found, but the likelihood of finding new documents 150 years later seems, unfortunately, low. -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Why is there so little mention of Female Soldiers in Faust's article? He says that two of the authors left out the topic because they did not see the women as 'real' women but why did Faust? I know there have been books written solely on the subject. -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
<br />
Perhaps a literature review of the Civil War would be a good thing? What is out there, and how it is presented, may help us to examine the War in a different way. -DR<br />
<br />
In a similar vein, have we stagnated in our approach to interpretation of the Civil War? Are we so over-saturated with information that finding anything new would prove next to impossible?- DR<br />
<br />
It seems like a bit of a stretch to call the Civil War the first "Total War." Whether or not it was a total war, it little resembled the World Wars, and worse things had been done to civilians and infrastructure in past conflicts. What is it about the way we remember it that so often leads us to label it as the very first of its kind, one that set a precedent for all the wars to come? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Why was there such a strong feeling of nationhood among so many confederate soldiers, after only a very short period of independence? Had Southerners always felt so independent, or was there sense of separateness a more recent development? -GStan.<br />
<br />
How much of our memory of the Civil War is influenced by the types of books that we read bout the war? I know my perception of the war is different from a couple years ago because of the new books I read. Have you noticed some books about military aspects get facts about politics wrong while books written about politics get military aspects wrong? Logan T<br />
<br />
How many of the debates about the Civil War are problems with definitions. Gallagher talks about the problem with defining the concept of total war. Gallagher main point is on Union War strategy. Is the debate over if the South could have won the war a debate of defining winning? The South could not have defeated the North in the same way the North defeated the South but does that mean the South could not have won? Logan T<br />
<br />
Why do you think White commanders of the USCT would want command of the colored troops during the war, and were willing to endure social ostracism for it, but turned their back on them when it came to equal rights after the war? Wouldn't they be more likely to support equal rights? - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-15T04:57:49Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>In the Shackel piece, the author talks about African Americans experiences during the war and after. In particular, he mentions a variety of ways in which African Americans began to be recognized especially in the mid-twentieth century. What were some of these ways? How do you think this group of people would have responded to finally being included in the "national consciousness?" -Avanness<br />
<br />
A lot of the readings we have read have talked about how the memorial organizations, monuments, ceremonies etc. have at least partially been created because of the desire to transmit stories to younger generations. Do you think this remains one of the main factors as to why individuals or groups of people wish to commemorate or memorialize events or figures in history today? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Le Anne White concludes her essay with a pondering about what memorialization will look like the further we get from the Civil War. Do you think we as a people will ever put enough distance between us and the Civil War to look at it with a less jaundiced eye? -R.King<br />
<br />
To me the Ayers piece was the most interesting of the three readings. Do you think that a new revisionist look at the Civil War would "place more distance between nineteenth century Americans and ourselves,"? -R.King<br />
<br />
I was a bit disturbed by Shackel's statement that the National Park Service's "interpretation" of the Manassas battle field purposely eliminates any discussion of the causes of the Civil War. Don't you think they should embrace that aspect of the history and at the very least put the battle fought there in some kind of context? -R.King<br />
<br />
In Memory in Black and White Shackle discusses how the construction of public memory has changed since World War II. Author Michael Kammen states that since World War II, commemoration activities in the United States have became increasingly decentralized as the federal government has played a decreasing role in the construction of public memory (Shakle pg. 13). The lack of commemoration activities has played a significant role in the construction of public memory, but what other factors contribute to public memory? Also is the decentralization of commemoration a depoliticized process, or a highly politicized process? -Nick. J<br />
<br />
I also really liked the Ayers article, and reading it made me realize how deeply ingrained the Ken Burns Civil War narrative is in me. Do you think that that narrative is still serving a purpose in American memory? What purpose is that and what would change that narrative's usefulness in defining us as a nation? --Erin B<br />
<br />
Ayers brought up several important points regarding the way narratives on the Civil War have transformed. Is there one or more interpretations that hold more weight than the others? Also, he notes that "slavery and freedom remain the keys to understanding the war- but they are the place to begin our questions, not end them." Do you agree with this assessment? -ABratchie <br />
<br />
Do you think that the partnership between African Americans and white women at the University of Mississippi to change and "take aim at the very aspects of Southern culture that the UDC had labored so diligently to promote" was an isolated case (226)? How much of the Civil War memory do you think really prompted this type of action on the part of the students? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Why was the movement of the Confederate rock to another state building not contested by the students from th University of Missouri who had fought for its removal from campus? Does this say something about the community that the school had created or the community the students expected from the school (229ish Leeann Whites)? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Why did revisionism which was so powerful in the first half of the twentieth century fade away as Ayers says in the second half of the 20th century. Were revisionists simply sentimentalists? -Nick J<br />
<br />
In Leeann Whites' piece, she mentions "the appropriateness of Confederate memorialization." Just like with the Confederate battle flag- where do you draw the line? Or can a line be drawn? -MK<br />
<br />
Shackel discusses how a common history does not mean a common experience. How does this lack on common experience change the public memory of the Civil War? -MK<br />
<br />
In Leeann Whites' article, she cites Gloria Steinem's speech at the University, who claims, "[white] women have more empathy with blacks because both have been victims of the white man's discrimination." What do you think of this quote? I am a bit torn; I see reasons to agree with it and reasons to disagree with it. (I'm leaning more on the agreeing side) Is Steinem correct in comparing the plights of both these groups? Are they comparable?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Wiener's article brings up an important issue about reenactments. Without a doubt, at the time of the Centennial when attacks on the Freedom Riders were rampant, Civil War reenactments were extremely inappropriate. But this makes me wonder, what about now? I know there are several reenactors in the class, and I have never attended one, so I'm curious to know if there is any sort of tension at these events. Are there people who protest the reenactments claiming that they are offensive?- aaskins<br />
<br />
I found the story of Easter, a black slave who gave information to union troops, very interesting, mainly because when southerners found out that she was reporting things to the union they only threatened her, instead of outright killing her or taking her to prison or somewhere else. Instead they gave her the option to " skeedaddle like hell", which was the last thing i'd expect. - AJ<br />
<br />
Do you agree with Ayers assessment that today's understanding of the civil war came out of, at least in part, a desire to "restock Robert Penn Warren's "Treasury of Virtue"" after the vietnam war, giving the north, south, and black american's a piece of the different virtues that he speaks about? -AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_9_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 9 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-15T04:40:45Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>In the Shackel piece, the author talks about African Americans experiences during the war and after. In particular, he mentions a variety of ways in which African Americans began to be recognized especially in the mid-twentieth century. What were some of these ways? How do you think this group of people would have responded to finally being included in the "national consciousness?" -Avanness<br />
<br />
A lot of the readings we have read have talked about how the memorial organizations, monuments, ceremonies etc. have at least partially been created because of the desire to transmit stories to younger generations. Do you think this remains one of the main factors as to why individuals or groups of people wish to commemorate or memorialize events or figures in history today? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Le Anne White concludes her essay with a pondering about what memorialization will look like the further we get from the Civil War. Do you think we as a people will ever put enough distance between us and the Civil War to look at it with a less jaundiced eye? -R.King<br />
<br />
To me the Ayers piece was the most interesting of the three readings. Do you think that a new revisionist look at the Civil War would "place more distance between nineteenth century Americans and ourselves,"? -R.King<br />
<br />
I was a bit disturbed by Shackel's statement that the National Park Service's "interpretation" of the Manassas battle field purposely eliminates any discussion of the causes of the Civil War. Don't you think they should embrace that aspect of the history and at the very least put the battle fought there in some kind of context? -R.King<br />
<br />
In Memory in Black and White Shackle discusses how the construction of public memory has changed since World War II. Author Michael Kammen states that since World War II, commemoration activities in the United States have became increasingly decentralized as the federal government has played a decreasing role in the construction of public memory (Shakle pg. 13). The lack of commemoration activities has played a significant role in the construction of public memory, but what other factors contribute to public memory? Also is the decentralization of commemoration a depoliticized process, or a highly politicized process? -Nick. J<br />
<br />
I also really liked the Ayers article, and reading it made me realize how deeply ingrained the Ken Burns Civil War narrative is in me. Do you think that that narrative is still serving a purpose in American memory? What purpose is that and what would change that narrative's usefulness in defining us as a nation? --Erin B<br />
<br />
Ayers brought up several important points regarding the way narratives on the Civil War have transformed. Is there one or more interpretations that hold more weight than the others? Also, he notes that "slavery and freedom remain the keys to understanding the war- but they are the place to begin our questions, not end them." Do you agree with this assessment? -ABratchie <br />
<br />
Do you think that the partnership between African Americans and white women at the University of Mississippi to change and "take aim at the very aspects of Southern culture that the UDC had labored so diligently to promote" was an isolated case (226)? How much of the Civil War memory do you think really prompted this type of action on the part of the students? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Why was the movement of the Confederate rock to another state building not contested by the students from th University of Missouri who had fought for its removal from campus? Does this say something about the community that the school had created or the community the students expected from the school (229ish Leeann Whites)? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Why did revisionism which was so powerful in the first half of the twentieth century fade away as Ayers says in the second half of the 20th century. Were revisionists simply sentimentalists? -Nick J<br />
<br />
In Leeann Whites' piece, she mentions "the appropriateness of Confederate memorialization." Just like with the Confederate battle flag- where do you draw the line? Or can a line be drawn? -MK<br />
<br />
Shackel discusses how a common history does not mean a common experience. How does this lack on common experience change the public memory of the Civil War? -MK<br />
<br />
In Leeann Whites' article, she cites Gloria Steinem's speech at the University, who claims, "[white] women have more empathy with blacks because both have been victims of the white man's discrimination." What do you think of this quote? I am a bit torn; I see reasons to agree with it and reasons to disagree with it. (I'm leaning more on the agreeing side) Is Steinem correct in comparing the plights of both these groups? Are they comparable?- aaskins<br />
<br />
Wiener's article brings up an important issue about reenactments. Without a doubt, at the time of the Centennial when attacks on the Freedom Riders were rampant, Civil War reenactments were extremely inappropriate. But this makes me wonder, what about now? I know there are several reenactors in the class, and I have never attended one, so I'm curious to know if there is any sort of tension at these events. Are there people who protest the reenactments claiming that they are offensive?- aaskins<br />
<br />
I found the story of Easter, a black slave who gave information to union troops, very interesting, mainly because when southerners found out that she was reporting things to the union they only threatened her, instead of outright killing her or taking her to prison or somewhere else. Instead they gave her the option to " skeedaddle like hell", which was the last thing i'd expect. - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-03-10T05:39:54Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>Coski describes numerous compromises in the South regarding the Confederate flag. With a symbol as emotionally charged as the Confederate flag, is compromise acceptable?- aaskins<br />
<br />
If public display of the confederate flag was to be banned, which of the following two reactions would be most likely: <br />
1. support for the flag would surge and incite greater conflict OR<br />
2. people would move past the issue, and learn to forget.<br />
-aaskins<br />
<br />
I thought it was interesting how people began to cite different hypocrisies in school systems that tried to ban the Confederate Flag. Do you think school systems were right in trying to ban the flag or do you think it just caused more problems? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
We talked about this a little on Tuesday, but Coski discusses the meaning of the Confederate Flag overseas in Europe. He states "the Europeans have grasped something that Americans take for granted: the Confederate flag is fundamentally an American Flag" (293). Do you agree with his statement in that American's take the Confederate Flag for granted as an American Flag? Do you think it is an American Flag? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
The Battle Flag has been compared to many other symbols that have been perceived as intolerant, like the swastika or even symbols of black power. Are some of these more apt than others? Is there an absolute line that can be drawn between what it is comporable to and what it isn't, one rooted in history? Or is it all relative? -GStan.<br />
<br />
I thought the controversy that involved the college student named Kerrigan who hung her confederate flag out her window on campus was interesting. If she told people she did this because it reminded her of home and her heritage why did people continue to be defensive about the matter and insist her actions were inappropriate? -avanness<br />
<br />
Do defenders of the Confederate flag have a right to be able to fly the flag in public because of the first amendment? Are their rights being violated? -avanness<br />
<br />
Avanness, I think that since people are protected under the first amendment in the burning of the American Flag, that defenders of the Confederate Flag are equally protected in their flying of the flag in public. -MK<br />
<br />
I left the section about tolerance (or lack there of) for the battle flag in public schools feeling rather confused. I think that the courts generally did the right thing in protecting the rights of the minority against intimidation but there are some cases, like the middle school kid who got suspended for drawing a Confederate flag in his notebook, that seem a little ridiculous. It seems like some schools are censoring before there was really even an issue, because they think the flag is inherently racist. Which brings us to the debate of whether or not the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism or a heritage symbol… or both? I’m really not sure what I think. - Angie<br />
<br />
I found it really interesting that groups like the SCV and UDC tried to distance themselves quite far from the Klan. When they were campaigning to keep the battle flag at the Capitol in Alabama, it was their worst fear that the Klan would start campaigning for it as well because that would just prove to everyone that it really was a racial symbol. They were both campaigning for the flag to stay but for completely different reasons. - Angie<br />
<br />
Do you think the prominence of the flying of the Confederate Flag in response to the Civil Rights Movement added more the rebel image or the racist image of the Confederate Flag? -MK<br />
<br />
On page 235 Coski makes the statement"the University of Mississippi succeeded in limiting individual free speech with regulations couched in the language of safety and comfort." I understood the "safety and comfort" issue as the Universities ban of flags on sticks (229). How is this a " limiting" of first amendment rights? R.King<br />
<br />
Should we, as Coski suggests, "make peace" with the flag instead of trying to ban it? R. King<br />
<br />
As many others have already stated, it's interesting to note the hypocrisies that many of the students complained about when their schools attempted to ban confederate symbols. How does one distinguish between which symbols are acceptable and which ones are not. I'm not entirely sure it's possible without being criticized. However, I thought the identification of symbols that caused dangerous situations was a good attempted. - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
Aside from the discussion of the confederate symbols in a college setting, how much do you think the younger kids were being spurred on by their parents political and social feelings? I have a feeling it was...a lot. - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
How was the Confederate flag symbolized when the Supreme Court ordered the immediate and effective integration of schools in 1969? Was the flag an obstacle to integration?- Nick<br />
<br />
In 1987 the NAACP embarked on their campaign to end official use of the flag upon capitol buildings of four former Confederate states (South Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, and Georgia). On page 268 Coski states that the controversies in these turned to the same basic questions that have been brought up throughout the book. Is the Confederate flag an appropriate symbol to represent the people of a modern state? What is the proper way to determine this?- Nick<br />
<br />
I'm curious to know how many times the Confederate flag won out in the legal battles that ensued from the 60's onward, compared to how often they lost. - AJ <br />
<br />
The ruling during the Melton case, declaring that the confederate flag was a cause of disorder at Brainerd High School and therefore justified to be banned was enlightening to understanding how schools and courts are capable of clamping down on the argument of first ammendment rights when it comes to symbols. - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-08T05:43:54Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>On page 123 Coski states that in 1948, presumably following the surge in flag-bearing during the Dixiecrat campaign while anticipating the flag fad in the early 50s, "the UDC sought to prevent political groups from appropriating the flag and to prevent misuse of the flag by souvenir manufacturers and overzealous youths." What do you think would have constituted "misuse" in the eyes of the UDC and what meaning were they trying to protect? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Some flag defenders resented the conflation of the Confederate battle flag with racism as it was taken up by segregationist groups during the era of Civil Rights and massive resistance. What was the tradition that they sought protect by keeping certain southern attitudes separate from an historical symbol? Even when divorced of the more recent violent implications of the Confederate flag (like use by the KKK), Senator Mosely-Braun points on page 197 that the historical importance of the flag is equally as capable of serving as a painful reminder of ongoing racial inequality and prejudice, so how do you think heritage organizations and flag 'purists' would have responded to that? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Do you think Coski has succeeded in presenting the subject in and objective manner? R. King<br />
<br />
Is it ever possible to present history in an objective manner? Even by presenting the facts, do we not present them in a particular order, or omit certain elements while including others? I do not believe objective history is possible. --Cash<br />
<br />
Did the flag become "the flag" because of it's association with the Army of Northern Virginia and there for R. E. Lee? -R.King<br />
<br />
Why has the flag become the most contentious symbol of the American Civil War and in particular to the Confederacy? - R.King<br />
<br />
How much of the "flag fad" of the late 40's, early 50's do you think contributed to the the way the flag is marketed and commercialized today? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Perhaps it is just because I am studying Vietnam in my 1960s AMST seminar, but I think a lot of this has to do with the nation's need to "get back on its feet" so to speak after being humbled in Korea and pasted in Vietnam. When your might is shown to be questioned, I think the only way to bring it back is with BIG WORDS and FLASHY SLOGANS...no matter how empty. --Cash<br />
<br />
On page 145 Coski states, "The collection and interpretation of evidence for the Confederate flag's racist use present significant challenges. They depend upon eyewitnesses or photographers troubling to notice and document the flag's presence as a symbol of segregation or white supremacy." Do you think proponents of Civil Rights were able to successfully argue that the Confederate Flag embodied racism despite the idea by many that the flag represented states rights, while keeping in mind the difficulty in proving its racist links with evidence? -ABratchie <br />
<br />
Discussion topics for tomorrow. The Confederate battle flag as a military implement. Why was the Confederate battle flag created? What did the battle flag mean to soldiers that fought in the war? The different types of battle flags that were used. Logan T<br />
<br />
How was the Confederate battle flag used during reconstruction? Why was the Confederate battle flag used by American military units in other wars? What was the flag fad in the 1950s about? How have racist groups used the Confederate battle flag? Logan T<br />
<br />
Do you think that the commercialization of the Confederate Flag (being printed on bikinis and beach towels) lead to the flag representing more of a rebel image than a symbol of Southern heritage? -MK <br />
<br />
Coski's objective with this book is to make both defenders and opponents of the Confederate Flag to in a sense try to logically understand one another. Do you think that this is a realistic goal, when there is still so much debate over the causes of the Civil War? -MK<br />
<br />
Since the end of the war until today, the flag's popular usage has been suppressed again and again. Have Northern distaste for the flag and occaisional laws banning its use encouraged its supporters? Does it hurt more to let it fly or to open oneself to charges of "cultural genocide"? What would be a practical middle ground? -GStan.<br />
<br />
<br />
Why was the symbol of the Confederate flag inflated only ''after'' the Civil War? Did the flag not hold as much meaning or importance to those soldiers or civilians during the war as it did to those who began participating in the memorialzation of the war beginning around the 1870s? -avanness<br />
<br />
What participation did the flag have in memorialization events after the war including Memorial Day and establishing Confederate cemeteries and monuments? -avanness<br />
<br />
Did the official use of the Confederate flag violate U.S. Army regulations governing the display of flags? Coski writes on page 114 that the new Army regulations concerning flags allowed enough latitude for units to employ Confederate flags for historical or decorative purposes. Do you agree with soldiers being able to bring Confederate flags while they are serving their country in combat?- Nick<br />
<br />
How did Civil Rights leaders of the 1950s and the 1960s perceive the Confederate battle flag? How did this differ from Northern perspectives of the Confederate flag?-Nick<br />
<br />
The many different battle groups throughout the confederate states had very different opinions on what the flag should look like, (size, colors, dimensions) and defended their individual rights to carry those flags into battle despite the obvious dangers, and confusion, it presented for the units. Did this belligerent defense of their perceived rights within the confederacy lead to other issues of coordination and standardization within the Confederate army? - AJ<br />
<br />
How much of a role do you think the lost cause, and the continued fierce loyalty to the confederacy that came with it, had in making the flag the symbol it became? - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_8_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 8 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-03-08T05:27:03Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>On page 123 Coski states that in 1948, presumably following the surge in flag-bearing during the Dixiecrat campaign while anticipating the flag fad in the early 50s, "the UDC sought to prevent political groups from appropriating the flag and to prevent misuse of the flag by souvenir manufacturers and overzealous youths." What do you think would have constituted "misuse" in the eyes of the UDC and what meaning were they trying to protect? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Some flag defenders resented the conflation of the Confederate battle flag with racism as it was taken up by segregationist groups during the era of Civil Rights and massive resistance. What was the tradition that they sought protect by keeping certain southern attitudes separate from an historical symbol? Even when divorced of the more recent violent implications of the Confederate flag (like use by the KKK), Senator Mosely-Braun points on page 197 that the historical importance of the flag is equally as capable of serving as a painful reminder of ongoing racial inequality and prejudice, so how do you think heritage organizations and flag 'purists' would have responded to that? --Erin B.<br />
<br />
Do you think Coski has succeeded in presenting the subject in and objective manner? R. King<br />
<br />
Is it ever possible to present history in an objective manner? Even by presenting the facts, do we not present them in a particular order, or omit certain elements while including others? I do not believe objective history is possible. --Cash<br />
<br />
Did the flag become "the flag" because of it's association with the Army of Northern Virginia and there for R. E. Lee? -R.King<br />
<br />
Why has the flag become the most contentious symbol of the American Civil War and in particular to the Confederacy? - R.King<br />
<br />
How much of the "flag fad" of the late 40's, early 50's do you think contributed to the the way the flag is marketed and commercialized today? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Perhaps it is just because I am studying Vietnam in my 1960s AMST seminar, but I think a lot of this has to do with the nation's need to "get back on its feet" so to speak after being humbled in Korea and pasted in Vietnam. When your might is shown to be questioned, I think the only way to bring it back is with BIG WORDS and FLASHY SLOGANS...no matter how empty. --Cash<br />
<br />
On page 145 Coski states, "The collection and interpretation of evidence for the Confederate flag's racist use present significant challenges. They depend upon eyewitnesses or photographers troubling to notice and document the flag's presence as a symbol of segregation or white supremacy." Do you think proponents of Civil Rights were able to successfully argue that the Confederate Flag embodied racism despite the idea by many that the flag represented states rights, while keeping in mind the difficulty in proving its racist links with evidence? -ABratchie <br />
<br />
Discussion topics for tomorrow. The Confederate battle flag as a military implement. Why was the Confederate battle flag created? What did the battle flag mean to soldiers that fought in the war? The different types of battle flags that were used. Logan T<br />
<br />
How was the Confederate battle flag used during reconstruction? Why was the Confederate battle flag used by American military units in other wars? What was the flag fad in the 1950s about? How have racist groups used the Confederate battle flag? Logan T<br />
<br />
Do you think that the commercialization of the Confederate Flag (being printed on bikinis and beach towels) lead to the flag representing more of a rebel image than a symbol of Southern heritage? -MK <br />
<br />
Coski's objective with this book is to make both defenders and opponents of the Confederate Flag to in a sense try to logically understand one another. Do you think that this is a realistic goal, when there is still so much debate over the causes of the Civil War? -MK<br />
<br />
Since the end of the war until today, the flag's popular usage has been suppressed again and again. Have Northern distaste for the flag and occaisional laws banning its use encouraged its supporters? Does it hurt more to let it fly or to open oneself to charges of "cultural genocide"? What would be a practical middle ground? -GStan.<br />
<br />
<br />
Why was the symbol of the Confederate flag inflated only ''after'' the Civil War? Did the flag not hold as much meaning or importance to those soldiers or civilians during the war as it did to those who began participating in the memorialzation of the war beginning around the 1870s? -avanness<br />
<br />
What participation did the flag have in memorialization events after the war including Memorial Day and establishing Confederate cemeteries and monuments? -avanness<br />
<br />
Did the official use of the Confederate flag violate U.S. Army regulations governing the display of flags? Coski writes on page 114 that the new Army regulations concerning flags allowed enough latitude for units to employ Confederate flags for historical or decorative purposes. Do you agree with soldiers being able to bring Confederate flags while they are serving their country in combat?- Nick<br />
<br />
How did Civil Rights leaders of the 1950s and the 1960s perceive the Confederate battle flag? How did this differ from Northern perspectives of the Confederate flag?-Nick<br />
<br />
The many different battle groups throughout the confederate states had very different opinions on what the flag should look like, (size, colors, dimensions) and defended their individual rights to carry those flags into battle despite the obvious dangers, and confusion, it presented for the units. Did this belligerent defense of their perceived rights within the confederacy lead to other issues of coordination and standardization within the Confederate army? - AJ</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_6_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 6 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-15T07:27:45Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>On page 229, Blight discusses Joel Chandler Harris' story "The Comedy of War" he describes an impending battle on Squire Farnborogh's farm. Apparently the Squire has a son fighting in each army. Although the story is fiction is there truth to the fact that brother faced brother, and how common place was this? --R. King<br />
<br />
Blight seems to be saying that the Underground Railroad is a myth, is this true? -- R. King<br />
<br />
Is DuBois' address an attempt to refute the Lost Cause ideology? -- R. King<br />
<br />
We had discussed to a limited extent in class the ways in which classical ideals played into a creation of the memory of the Confederacy. DuBois seems to strike at the heart of this when he says, "we seek in vain the Teutonic deification of Self, and Roman brute force." Why else would he feel it necessary to base his speech around the glories of the Teutonic or the Roman Empires, unless he saw the Lost Cause becoming institutionalized?- DRadtke<br />
mell sought<br />
DuBois argues that the nation that Jefferson Davis represented was getting in the way of civilization of the United States. How might Southern Lost Causers counter this argument? -MK<br />
<br />
The rhetoric that Frederick Douglass uses in his Decoration Day speech is similar to the rhetoric of the Lost Cause- especially when speaking about how the future generations would "study the deeds of fathers.." Are their motivations similar? -MK<br />
<br />
On page 214, Blight discusses that the Lost Cause was born at Appomattox in the dignified manner of Robert E. Lee's surrender and in his attribution of defeat to "superior numbers of resources," surely the spirit of reunion was, in part, born there as well. Do you agree with this statement that the Lost cause was created when the Civil War ended due to Grant's lenient terms to Robert E. Lee? Nick<br />
<br />
Alexander Crummell and Fredrick Douglass had differing interpretations concerning the remembrance of slavery and emancipation. Both Douglass and Crummel sought racial uplight, but one would take the risk of sustaining a sense of historic grievance against America as the means of making the nation fulfill its promises. For example Crummell sought to redeem Africa, and to inspire moral values in the freedpeople by the example of an elite black leadership while Douglass embraced the same values but sought to redeem the civil and political rights established by the verdicts of Fort Wagner and Appomattox. Which view became the chief perspective of African American remembrance? Nick<br />
<br />
The story of "Meh Lady" presents a rather utopian view of life in the South. Not only are the slaves happy there, but so too is a Yankee soldier, who marries Meh Lady. The characters view the events after the fall of Richmond as a collapse of a civilization. However, the end provides the hope that a new country could rise from the metaphorical ashes. What was it about Southern society that made it so infallible? It is telling, in my opinion, that the faithful slave narrative developed, clearly as an attempt to reconcile a vision of the South as a utopia, even with an institution like slavery at its core.- DRadtke<br />
<br />
Albion Tourgee wanted people to remember "only the causes that underlay the struggle and the results that followed from it." But would most Americans have agreed with Tourgee about what the causes were? -GStan.<br />
<br />
It's interesting that Du Bois would call for the strong to submit in order for all to advance. I wonder if he only meant that in a racial sense; he was known for being elitist. He believed the advancement of his people lay with its "Talented Tenth." I'm not sure where this speech fits into that message. -GStan.<br />
<br />
Blight’s chapter on the literature on reunion and its discontents in the beginning (like in every chapter) the fight about what the war was fought over. Most of Blight’s arguments center on this theme and how both sides differed. Later in the chapter he describes literature written about combat and prisons during the war. Blight discusses soldier’s romanticized version of combat and generals arguing their roles in the war. Was all literature on the war centered on these subjects? Was there not literature on the war itself instead of its causes? Were there any debates about battle outcomes, decision made during the war or political actions, like in modern scholarship? Logan T<br />
<br />
Do you think Blight's comparison of post-Civil War writers (Grant, Tourgee, Page, etc.) is an accurate reflection of the competing ideas of the war and the South in the public sphere during the time of their publications? And what about Tourgee's idea regarding the "forgetting" of the war? Obviously people hadn't forgotten about it, so what did he mean by this thought?- Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
Tourgee's argument about how the American people had "gone so far that there was even a tendency to forget altogether the fact that a war could not be waged for the preservation of the union unless someone was responsible for the attempt to destroy it" brings up a big point against reconciliation, and the popular acceptance of southern literature. Should the US, specifically the union have put more effort into remembering the specific causes of the war like Touragee argued, or was it better for the nation overall to embrace the reconciliationist view like it did. -AJ L.<br />
<br />
When Blight talks about Siebert and his research into the underground railroad he mentions the seeming belief of the people who had been a part of the underground, or who's ancestors had, that they had "permanently destroyed slavery and its related problems". Did this belief, or similar ones among other northerners, contribute to the lack of effort in fighting against jim crow laws? or was it more because they were tired of fighting at that point? - AJ L.</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_5_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 5 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-02-10T06:54:17Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>The textbook war waged by the UCV and the UDC had the interesting outcome of causing Northern publishers to pander to Southern narratives out of fear of a boycott of their products. This is a good illustration of the issues of the Civil War simply meaning more to the South than it did to the North. I wonder, though, if these discrepancies were ever noted by Northern schoolchildren in any way nearly approaching that of Southern school children. – Erin B.<br />
<br />
Do you read the trends in juvenile Civil War fiction in the 1880s as an attempt to instill the ideals they supported (white supremacy, white reconciliation, etc.) or were the writers simply responding to the market? – Erin B.<br />
<br />
The issue over the "truthful" history of the Civil has been a common link between all the various readings this week, especially in McPherson's essay concerning textbooks. He mentions how Rutherford created her own "facts" surrounding the Civil War which were completely false. How do you think this push by the South to embody the Lost Cause rhetoric in textbooks has affected the memory of the war today? Also, do you think these "facts" presented by Rutherford should be considered as historical interpretations of the war despite their untruthfulness? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
I have never learned about some of the beliefs that Grant had about the Civil War that he wrote in "Report to Congress." In particular, Grant said that South's advantages offset Northern superiority and that Northern soldiers fought just as well and under more difficult circumstances to that of the South. Do you agree with these statements? Do you think the South really did have more advantages in the war or was this just a ploy by Grant to get people to believe the North had to work harder in order to win? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
To add to our conversation from Tuesday, the essay in Fahs and Waugh on textbooks talked about how veterans wanted to keep the "Confederate heritage alive through children of veterans." Do you think these textbooks and the push to get the "correct" history of the war written down from the South's perspective are two reasons as to why the Lost Cause view is still around today and just as popular especially in the South? Were the ex-Confederates trying to create a legacy they knew would continue to be alive more than 100 years later because of their children and future relatives? -Avanness<br />
<br />
Waugh talks about Grant's ability to write "clear and forceful battle reports" and how this was the same for when he was writing his memoirs. Do you think that his ability to make himself look successful makes his autobiography more of a work of fiction? -MK<br />
<br />
In the trends of the children's books, Fahs argues that both Optic and Page used notions of white supremacy and white reconciliation and how because of this African Americans were typically left out. Do you think that the only way for the Union to reconcile was through the ideology of white supremacy? -MK<br />
<br />
Why do you think many of the Southern monuments allude to the Romans and Greeks? -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Are there any other Civil War Memorials/Monuments dedicated to noncombatants. Is John Calhoun's in Charleston the only one? What might have prevented the creation of other memorials like his? -Megan Mc.<br />
<br />
Why was Grant afraid of leaving the legacy of the war in politicians' hands? How would/could they have altered the legacy? Is his fear unfounded?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
"Truth was derived from facts but not dependent upon them." (pp. 21) Both Waugh and McPherson touch upon this theme of revealing the "true" history. But Waugh emphasizes that Grant's memoir was perceived (at least by his fans) as the correct version of the Civil War. Is he presenting the truth (as he claims is his purpose) or is this merely another example of derived-truth?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
McPherson and Fahs discuss the relationship between Civil War memory and children through memorial services and literature. One thing that wasn't mentioned is the trend of naming children (and grandchildren) after Civil War figures. Has this been effective in creating "living monuments" as McPherson discusses? Is the name-legacy still prevalent (and if so, is it more for southern memory or northern)? Is it an effective method of instilling Civil War appreciation in descendants of veterans?- Aaskins<br />
<br />
In Waugh’s article about Grant’s memoirs, she discusses how Grant was aiming to set the record straight and tell the world the “truth” about why the war was fought. Similarly, the South was attempting to do the same thing, but their “truth” was quite different. Why did Grant and his truth fall to the wayside when up against the South and their truth? - Angie<br />
<br />
I found it interesting in Fahs article how the themes in children’s civil war stories changed from during the war to after the war. For example, during the war, wealth was portrayed as a negative characteristic, but afterwards it was a good characteristic. It’s not surprising that people’s priorities change as the country changes, but I do find it surprising that stories from the same author and about the same event can have such different themes in them. - Angie<br />
<br />
The Confederacy's statesmen and military leaders were all forced into retirement, while the Republicans held the reigns of power and placed their greatest war hero in the highest seat of government. Did this negatively affect the legacies of the northern combatants? Or did the south's revisionist predilections make that inevitable? -GStan.<br />
<br />
Waugh discusses how proponents of the Lost Cause attempted to discredit Grant by destroying his reputation and enhancing Lee's. Do you think they were successful in their attempts? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
Waugh represents Grant's memoirs as filled with the theme of reconstruction. Do you agree? How is this represented? And what about the deminishing of Grant's reputation compared to Lee's, do you think that had any influence on his personal feelings that might have been represented in his memoirs? - Victoria Y.<br />
<br />
Was the criticism often thrust upon Grant's leadership, and in general the leadership of Union Generals during the war fair? Or was the criticism Fah's explains just the product of Southern views against him? -AJ L.<br />
<br />
If Grant's career during the war hadn't been attacked so much by the south so much do you think his memoirs would have been so focused on why he did certain things during the war and in general the war itself, becoming, as was stated, "the single contemporary document which explains, why the North won the Civil War" at that time? -AJ L.</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_5_Questions/Comments--Thursday471A3--Week 5 Questions/Comments--Thursday2011-02-10T06:35:33Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
<hr />
<div>The textbook war waged by the UCV and the UDC had the interesting outcome of causing Northern publishers to pander to Southern narratives out of fear of a boycott of their products. This is a good illustration of the issues of the Civil War simply meaning more to the South than it did to the North. I wonder, though, if these discrepancies were ever noted by Northern schoolchildren in any way nearly approaching that of Southern school children. – Erin B.<br />
<br />
Do you read the trends in juvenile Civil War fiction in the 1880s as an attempt to instill the ideals they supported (white supremacy, white reconciliation, etc.) or were the writers simply responding to the market? – Erin B.<br />
<br />
The issue over the "truthful" history of the Civil has been a common link between all the various readings this week, especially in McPherson's essay concerning textbooks. He mentions how Rutherford created her own "facts" surrounding the Civil War which were completely false. How do you think this push by the South to embody the Lost Cause rhetoric in textbooks has affected the memory of the war today? Also, do you think these "facts" presented by Rutherford should be considered as historical interpretations of the war despite their untruthfulness? -ABratchie<br />
<br />
<br />
I have never learned about some of the beliefs that Grant had about the Civil War that he wrote in "Report to Congress." In particular, Grant said that South's advantages offset Northern superiority and that Northern soldiers fought just as well and under more difficult circumstances to that of the South. Do you agree with these statements? Do you think the South really did have more advantages in the war or was this just a ploy by Grant to get people to believe the North had to work harder in order to win? -Avanness<br />
<br />
<br />
To add to our conversation from Tuesday, the essay in Fahs and Waugh on textbooks talked about how veterans wanted to keep the "Confederate heritage alive through children of veterans." Do you think these textbooks and the push to get the "correct" history of the war written down from the South's perspective are two reasons as to why the Lost Cause view is still around today and just as popular especially in the South? Were the ex-Confederates trying to create a legacy they knew would continue to be alive more than 100 years later because of their children and future relatives? -Avanness<br />
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Waugh talks about Grant's ability to write "clear and forceful battle reports" and how this was the same for when he was writing his memoirs. Do you think that his ability to make himself look successful makes his autobiography more of a work of fiction? -MK<br />
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In the trends of the children's books, Fahs argues that both Optic and Page used notions of white supremacy and white reconciliation and how because of this African Americans were typically left out. Do you think that the only way for the Union to reconcile was through the ideology of white supremacy? -MK<br />
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Why do you think many of the Southern monuments allude to the Romans and Greeks? -Megan Mc.<br />
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Are there any other Civil War Memorials/Monuments dedicated to noncombatants. Is John Calhoun's in Charleston the only one? What might have prevented the creation of other memorials like his? -Megan Mc.<br />
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Why was Grant afraid of leaving the legacy of the war in politicians' hands? How would/could they have altered the legacy? Is his fear unfounded?- Aaskins<br />
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"Truth was derived from facts but not dependent upon them." (pp. 21) Both Waugh and McPherson touch upon this theme of revealing the "true" history. But Waugh emphasizes that Grant's memoir was perceived (at least by his fans) as the correct version of the Civil War. Is he presenting the truth (as he claims is his purpose) or is this merely another example of derived-truth?- Aaskins<br />
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McPherson and Fahs discuss the relationship between Civil War memory and children through memorial services and literature. One thing that wasn't mentioned is the trend of naming children (and grandchildren) after Civil War figures. Has this been effective in creating "living monuments" as McPherson discusses? Is the name-legacy still prevalent (and if so, is it more for southern memory or northern)? Is it an effective method of instilling Civil War appreciation in descendants of veterans?- Aaskins<br />
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In Waugh’s article about Grant’s memoirs, she discusses how Grant was aiming to set the record straight and tell the world the “truth” about why the war was fought. Similarly, the South was attempting to do the same thing, but their “truth” was quite different. Why did Grant and his truth fall to the wayside when up against the South and their truth? - Angie<br />
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I found it interesting in Fahs article how the themes in children’s civil war stories changed from during the war to after the war. For example, during the war, wealth was portrayed as a negative characteristic, but afterwards it was a good characteristic. It’s not surprising that people’s priorities change as the country changes, but I do find it surprising that stories from the same author and about the same event can have such different themes in them. - Angie<br />
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The Confederacy's statesmen and military leaders were all forced into retirement, while the Republicans held the reigns of power and placed their greatest war hero in the highest seat of government. Did this negatively affect the legacies of the northern combatants? Or did the south's revisionist predilections make that inevitable? -GStan.<br />
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Waugh discusses how proponents of the Lost Cause attempted to discredit Grant by destroying his reputation and enhancing Lee's. Do you think they were successful in their attempts? -ABratchie<br />
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Waugh represents Grant's memoirs as filled with the theme of reconstruction. Do you agree? How is this represented? And what about the deminishing of Grant's reputation compared to Lee's, do you think that had any influence on his personal feelings that might have been represented in his memoirs? - Victoria Y.<br />
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Was the criticism often thrust upon Grant's leadership, and in general the leadership of Union Generals during the war fair? Or was the criticism Fah's explains just the product of Southern views against him? -AJ L.</div>AJ Lawrencehttps://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=471A3--Week_5_Questions/Comments--Tuesday471A3--Week 5 Questions/Comments--Tuesday2011-02-08T06:49:39Z<p>AJ Lawrence: </p>
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<div>The soldiers who wrote pieces for magazines such as the ''Confederate Veteran'' included a lot of stories or war memories that related to or tied into reconciliation. Blight even stated that reconciliation and fraternalism dominated a lot of the ex-soldiers memories. Since these stories and memories were all written down, I was wondering if you think the idea for reconciliation, at least among the soldiers, would have come as quickly if the veterans had never received the opportunity to write for the magazines? -Avanness<br />
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I was a little surprised to read repeatedly how proponents of the Lost Cause believed and stated that slavery was not the cause of the Civil War. They argued that secession from the Union was the main cause for the South's participation in the war. People who believed in the Lost Cause even ended up rejecting people like John Mosby who was against reunion and was adamant about claiming slavery was the cause of the war. Why do you think this was? Do you think the South was really just trying to save their image or were they really ready for reconciliation with the North? -Avanness<br />
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I was also surprised to see how persistent Lost Causers advocated that the war had been about secession, not slavery. Blight talks about how the Lost Cause idea itself transformed, and race was the most commonly left out. What advantages did this have for Southerners and reconciliation? How do you think memory would have changed if race and slavery had been incorporated into the Lost Cause? -ABratchie<br />
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In Chapter 6, most of the veterans’ recollections and assessments of battle and the war in general became popular about twenty years after the war. Blight mentions that for many of the soldiers, dwelling on some of the raw memories in the years just following the war was simply too painful, but then later in the chapter suggests some other reasons that celebrating the valor of the soldiers gained common appreciation across sections. What caused the nationwide decline in race relations in the last decades of the century? – Erin B.<br />
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Blight quotes Robert S. Dabney on pg 263 as having written that "Yankees would ultimately meet their just fate...'in the day of their calamity, in pages of impartial history, and in the Day of Judgment.'" Harsh words. Do you think that religion played a larger role in understanding the effects of the war in South than in the North? What kind of a role did it play in South? -- Erin B.<br />
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Blight talks extensively about soldiers memories in ''Century'' Magazine. Most of those memories, however, came from famous generals, not "many ordinary voices" (179). What do you think the impact of those memories was on society and what do you think was lost from the recollections that were omitted from the issues? -ABratchie<br />
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Blight talked how Civil War veterans wanted to pass along the virtues of the soldiers down to the next generation. Do you think this motivated more veterans to write about their war experience and join memorialization organizations? - MK<br />
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I found Blight's description of Civil War memory as a national pastime very interesting. What were other people's reaction to this statement? -MK<br />
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MK, I agree with it for sure. I own a few Civil War movies, and have seen them all more than a few times (although APPARENTLY, not enough for Glory...) and can recite a few scenes by heart. Jeff Shaara's Civil War books are phenomenal reads, and I'll confess to spending a day on and around the Antietam battlefield just for the hell of it. Even us...would we be in this class if we weren't at least a little interested in the subject matter? --Cash <br />
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"The former soldiers were the living reminders that the current society, however drab and materialistic, had evolved out of a more heroic time." This quote says very clearly something that we have discussed a great deal, and it also gives us an idea of how quickly the times changed from the heroic romanticized era to a more common time. How often did these events involving the civil war veterans occur? AJ L.<br />
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Why were magazines like ''Century'' so opposed to publishing the real horror stories from the war? Blight discusses how it opposed the reconciliation theme, but why weren’t people interested in knowing what really happened to the soldiers who were imprisoned in war camps and the like? - Angie<br />
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Even further than reconciliation, Angie, I think it was more a matter of just wanting to move on for a while. I used an analogy in another class re: 1970 America as the hangover after the party. I think by 1865, much of the nation felt exactly the same way. Everyone just wanted to figuratively go outside, smoke a cigarette, take a few deep breaths, and just move on from there. No one wanted to remember that soon how awful it was to be in war with each other. --Cash<br />
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On page 275, Blight tells us how a southerner named Albert Morton attended both a UCV and a GAR parade. Morton says that the Confederate parade was fun and lively while the Union memorial parade was “wooden” and almost apathetic. While the observation is presumably biased since he was a southerner, it still seems ironic that the Northern parade (the victors) would be less celebratory than the southerners (the losers). Did the North really care so little about memorializing their victory? - Angie<br />
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Along with MK's first question. How did the idea being paid for their Civil War memories shape the writing of them by Civil War veterans? -Megan Mc.<br />
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"Never had memory possessed such commercial value in America." What do you think of this quote? Is remembrance of the civil war the most commercial American memory?- Aaskins<br />
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The theme of the 1880s-90s is soldierly reconciliation, but black veterans are either excluded or segregated. Why would the Union veteran groups become increasingly exclusive to blacks?- Aaskins<br />
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Is the Lee monument in Richmond inappropriate? As Blight points out, it is hard to interpret African American reaction to the monument, so does that make the monument acceptable or even more inappropriate?- Aaskins<br />
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Why were Civil War soldiers more willing to talk about their war experiences than veteran of more recent war like World War I and II, Vietnam, and the Gulf Wars? Not only were they willing but enthusiastic about the prospect. Do you think that they would be more willing to talk about the horrors of the war if the thought people wanted to here about it? Logan T<br />
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Veterans concern with the passing on of "soldiers' virtues" and the promoting of manly sports that accompanied that concern in Henry Lee Higginson's dedication of the "soldiers field" to Harvard was an interesting topic in this chapter. It represents again the belief that the U.S. was slipping away from the Romantic golden days of noble society and the virtues that went along with it but also showed the respect and desire to retain those virtues that people still held. - AJ L.</div>AJ Lawrence Deprecated: header(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($response_code) of type int is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 38