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Deprecated: header(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($response_code) of type int is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 38 https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=74.214.55.6McClurken Wiki - User contributions [en]2026-09-18T22:33:22ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.22.0https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=328--Week_11_Questions/Comments328--Week 11 Questions/Comments2008-04-03T11:43:59Z<p>74.214.55.6: /* Vicki Ruiz, "'Star Struck': Acculturation, Adolescence, and Mexican American Women, 1920-1950" */</p>
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<div>== Debate topics or comparative questions ==<br />
Should Rosie the Riveter go home and raise a family or continue working? --Justin Mattos<br />
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Did the war truly elevate the status of women? -- Kellye<br />
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== Betty Jeanne Boggs, "Balancing Work and Family" ==<br />
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I really liked the article "Balancing Work and Family." I really loved how this family was backwards, even for the 50s-60s. The husband was still trying to finish school, the wife is working, they aren't that worried about having children. They accept it when it completely surprises them. I really like the fact that Betty Boggs worked so much and she actually liked her job, she got to choose her job, I also do like that she did try working during her first child. The fact that she at least gave it a shot was impressive to me. When she had her second child it was understandable that she wanted to stay home, also her husband by then didn't need her to be working all the time to support the family. I know there is a stereotype of families from the 50s, they are in their perfectly manicured houses and have the perfect families were dad works and mom cooks and cleans all day. But was the manicured family real, or was it created by the media? and were families like the Boggs just as "real" as the ''perfect'' manicured family?<br />
-- Amanda Taub<br />
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I also really liked the article by Betty Jeanne Boggs. It really struck me as out of the time period because of the wife working so the husband could finish school. Also the attitude of if 'one can't go and have fun, well, the other wont go either because its not fair.' I thought that the relationship she and her husband had was amazing, especially for the 1950s and 60s. --Ashley Wilkins<br />
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I agree with the above two posts, although this article definitely showed me that the idealistic picture of family during the 50's wasnt real, and although that was a bit jarring because i had never really thought that such a modern relationship existed back then, it was nice to see that it was possible. Also i feel that often we assume that relationships in the past were purely based on the children both currently present or expected, and that the actual relationship between two people was never prioritized, i like that this is the opposite, this couple truly seems to care for one another if they are blatantly defying the stereotypes of the day in order to make each other's dream possible. --Julie Robert<br />
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I really liked this article too. It really showed how women were able to work outside the home but still raise their kids. It showed how women were torn between work and the family. For instance Boggs, wanted to stay home with the new baby but she wanted to help her husband who wasnt in good health and she really liked her job. It surprises me that you can enjoy working in those rough conditions but I guess it was so liberating that they wanted just wanted to be there. -- Kellye Sorber<br />
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I like this article too because it emphasized how hard women struggled to have a job and a family life. It's a struggle for many women today but there are many daycare options and childcare outside of the home is accepted. I can't even imagine being a working mother with such little support from society. -Kendall Haring<br />
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It is clear from Betty Jeanne Boggs’ piece that staying at home with the kids was still absolutely seen as the women’s job. The pressure she felt to provide for the baby and not burden her husband (and not expect him to help her) is ridiculous. – Cat Debelius<br />
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I found this article interesting because of the role the husband played in raising the kids. It seems to contradict everything we have read about. The mother was the one with the job while the husband was in school and raising the kids. It was also interesting to see the mother's very torn emotions about her role in this backwards family. - Christine W.<br />
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As with everyone else, I also enjoyed this article because it showed the conflict that Betty Jeanne Boggs clearly felt between her job and her family. I think that many women today still feel this pressure. It makes me wonder how much has truly changed since the 50s and 60s. --Katie Nelson<br />
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I found this article interesting as well because it is so anti-sterotypical of that time. You normally don't hear that the husband helped with the kids. I think that was extremely progressive for that time period. It was also interesting because she seemed so torn about wanting to work because she liked her job and wanting to be home for the children and have a better relationship with them.~~Mary Beth Conrad<br />
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I think that in today's society Boggs would have no problem having a family as well as having a fruitful career. It seems as if she couldn't imagine remaining at work because of how she perceived her relationship with her first son. I feel like her struggle to bond with her child would not be present today. There were such high expectations after the war to be the ultimate parent and to create the "best" children for the future. Boggs had the relationships of other mothers and sons of the time period (and the ideal) to compare herself to. Today it seems as if parenting dynamics have adapted and are more like what Boggs and her husband had in the 1950's. -- Meredith Bojarski<br />
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I'm glad that Boggs was able balance her career and family for a long time. She got really lucky, getting a husband who allowed her to do this considering the time they live in. By the time she has had her second child and decides to be more attentive of her family I feel that she has had enough work experience to be able to say she was one of the few women who were privelaged enough to be a married woman AND be able to have a job. Boggs, as a mother, however does run into the whole issue about the estranged relationship that she and her child had becaues of this job and it being a possible problem. By the time she has her second child, she decides to be more involved in it's life. I feel that the whole essay as a whole has a strong "women should have jobs!" attitude but towards the very end all of a sudden it turns to "mothers should stay at home to raise their children" attitude. At least she can say that because she has tried both so has evidence to back her up.- Emely A.<br />
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== Wilma Mankiller, "Indian Relocation" - 1993 about life in the 1950s ==<br />
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After all these years, the government still felt that there was an ‘Indian Problem” that needed to be resolved. The only way they believed to settle it was by removing the Indians from their reservations. Did the government think that just because they were not holding the Native Americans at gun point meant that it was not seen as another Trail of Tears? –Ashley Scutari<br />
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I honestly think that the government knew that what they were doing was wrong but at the same time they thought they were doing the Indians a favor by making life easier for them, getting them jobs, better living conditions (of course they really weren't). You have to remember at this time the government wasn't too thrilled with people beign different, they wanted everyone to be the same to fit some sort of ideal. -- Kellye Sorber<br />
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I thought the most interesting thing about this reading was that it showed how powerful propaganda was and still can be. Here was a family who was by all accounts happy, the children and wife seemed satisfied. They may have lived an archaic life by other standards, but they had never known anything different. Yet the BIA convinced the husband that by moving halfway across the country he could be like the idealized middle class family on the front of a brochure. The same was true with the WWII and post-WWII propaganda we studied in class, there the government seemed to have the ability to turn (most)of the publics' desire to have women work on and off by changing the message on a poster. Sometimes playing on a person's hopes, dreams, and desire to fit in can be far more powerful than any weapon. --- Landon Davis<br />
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I know that the New Deal era had created a program/bill that affected native americans work, lives, and education-some for better and some for worse (if you account for the negatives of westernization). I think that it was a cultural ideology that we had always convinced ourselves, that Native American's were lesser and uncivilized, but could be helped under our white influence and control. Whether, or not the programs, relocations, etc. were meant to be altruistic in any part, so many negative effects resulted from white dominance over native American peoples since the beginning of settlement and, as seen with this piece, well into the 20th century. ~~Jackie Reed<br />
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== Joanna Rubin, "An Unplanned Pregnancy" 1950s ==<br />
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This article really made me sad because the author mentioned feeling so alone because she didn't feel that she could tell her dad about the pregnancy. I really wonder how many young women today still feel this way, since abortions are still a very heated debate in today's society. I would imagine that many young women today also feel this sense of loneliness that Joanna Rubin felt during this time in her life. - Elizabeth Frank<br />
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This article made me sad as well because she had no one to turn to other than the guy that got her pregnant, however I thought it was interesting that they went to some random place in Puerto Rico with a doctor named Pardo. Even though the boyfriend found out about this place through a friend it was no wonder she thought she might end up at some little dark room clinic that really wasn't lagit. She took a huge chance on flying out to this place that she really new nothing about. I would have been scared out of my mind too. There were places in the US that did these illegal abortions so I wonder if many other women went out of the US for abortions?--Michelle M.<br />
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Elizabeth and Michelle mentioned in their posts how alone Joanna Rubin was in her private ordeal. Abortion is not just a physical ordeal. Rubin says that she was okay with her decision in aborting a child, but this is the type of life event that she is less likely to share and will probably conceal. At the time, abortion was illegal in the states and carried a stigma that would have probably alienated her and prevented her seeking emotional support from professionals and other women. Abortion doesn't just take a fetus away, it creates a void and replaces it with guilt and shame.--LisaM<br />
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I thought it was interesting to read Joanna Rubin's account of her unplanned pregnancy. My question is if JOanna knew the risks of sleeping with her boyfriend and she didn't see a future with him then why take those huge risks sleeping with him? It's not like she was uneducated as far as the risks and unsafety of abortions. It is a type of rebellion for women? -- Rose Ferguson<br />
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I also found in MP it interesting to read about Joyce Johnsons experience obtaining an illegal abortion in NYC. What really struck me was how she had to get "drinks" with the doctor to set up the abortion appointment. Also that the room where the procedure took place, everything in the room was white. White representing pure and clean with a procedure of quite the opposite. Was this situation a common trend for women at this time? -- Rose Ferguson<br />
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You can tell from Joanna Rubin’s story that abortion was very difficult in the 1960s. I know that since abortions were illegal and therefore probably undocumented… are there any statistics on how many abortions were conducted during this time period? Also, I know that women that were pregnant and didn’t want to be always felt trapped, but wasn’t abortion always an option… even the “backroom” dangerous kind? – Cat Debelius<br />
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Joanna Rubin's story of her unplanned pregnancy really struck me and I spoke to the norms surrounding sexuality during this time period. I think it's interesting that in a way she tries to explain her relationship with Michael as being very intense and intellectual. I also think it's interesting that she says "I wasn't particularly promiscuous. I liked Michael as a person, but I was ready to stop seeing him except that I got pregnant." It almost seemed like she was trying to rationalize her relationship with him by saying that it was intellectual, then by saying that she was not promiscuous. --Katie Nelson<br />
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This essay offered me a different perspective of sexuallty back in the 50s. Obviously I already assumed that people were having pre-marital sex. The part that struck me however, was how easily Rubin states that she had no feelings for the guy who impregnanted her. I would've expected a more conservative account of it, such as her saying she loved him at some point or at least liked him a lot. - Emely A.<br />
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== Ethel Barol Taylor, "Women Strike for Peace" ==<br />
The article "Women Strike for Peace" by Ethel Barol Taylor really hit home for me. She talks about handing out leaflets saying "Take your children off milk," and she had very good reason to do so. The nuclear fallout from the testing of the atomic bomb at Los Alamos settled over central Iowa to central Missouri, and some unoccupied parts of Wyoming. My mothers entire family is from central Missouri, and she grew up in central Iowa. The radiation from the fallout affected the grass, which the dairy cows grazed on, and the radiation got into the milk. We are now seeing the results of people who drank radiation poisoned milk in the late 1940's and the 1950's in abnormally high instances of thyroid cancer. My grandfather developed thyroid cancer. My grandmother had a gouiter. My mom at age SEVEN also had a thyroid gouiter removed. She later developed thyroid cancer (it was discovered in ~1996) - she had to have her entire thyroid removed. Many of her cousins also developed thyroid cancer. So good for the ladies of Women Strike for Peace! Thanks for trying to raise awareness! - Sarah H.<br />
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The article was also interesting in that these women ware able to protest in such a lady-like manner that they were able to avoid any harsh criticism. Their handling of protests and of HUAC investigations was so impeccable that HUAC and those like them were being ridiculed. It was an interesting way to use the constraints of the time in their favor. - Sarah H.<br />
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== Rachel Carson Answers her Critics - 1963 ==<br />
I found this article to be fairly strange since I always associated the controversy regarding DDT and other insecticides with the environmental issues and campaigns of the 1980's. Is that true or am I misremembering that? --Justin Mattos<br />
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I think Rachel Carson was really ahead of her time in terms of environmentalism. It seems like in postwar America, everyone was ready to use the new technology and new chemicals without thinking about the effects it had on nature. Carson was willing to step up against what everyone believed was progress and ask Americans to take a real look at the way they were affecting the world around them. -Kendall Haring<br />
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I found this article very interesting because harmful pesticides is a problem still dealt with today. I was surprised to see that she was the driving force behind getting changes made. I was also surprised to see how many people seemed to take her word over all the heads of the pesticide companies especially since it dealt with science and that was still seen as a man's field. It was interesting to see how popular her book became and how willing she was to put herself in the spotlight at a time when women were supposed to be in the home. - Christine W.<br />
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I agree with Kendall, Rachel Carson seemed to really be one step ahead of the curve when it came to environmental science. The way she defended herself and her argument blew my mind. You could tell she was well educated and that she knew what she was talking about. She really backed up her argument and made a valid case, and I feel like that's a pretty big step for women. She, in my opinion, proved that educated women deserve respect and made a case, whether she meant to or not, that educated women were a force to be reckoned with. She really caused the American population to stop and take a look around because her argument lasted a lifetime. -Kelly Wuyscik<br />
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== Louisa Randall Church - "Parents, Architects of Peace" 1946 ==<br />
The first reading in MP by Louisa Randall I thought was very interesting. It takes on more of a psychology perspective to parenting as she outlines what she believes are the major duties that parents have for their children. First of all, when talking about raising the children, Randall uses the term “parents” in the plural and discusses the equal responsibility of the man and the woman in raising the children, which shows a definite shift from the “women in the home” attitude that had prevailed previously. Also, it shows the growing responsibilities that parents have toward children. It extends the previous belief that women were responsible for raising moral children further to include “love and affection, equal rights, discipline, freedom, enrichment, cooperation, and education.” I also found it funny in the end when she suggested that “School officials, everywhere, and citizens, too, should give active support to the idea of training for parenthood…” (412). --Jessica Kilday<br />
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I also found this article interesting but what stood out to me was the reference to parents (plural) and the emphasis she seems to place on equality within the household. I'm wondering how many women during this period shared this ideal since this is also the period where women were shifting back to the world of the home and were taking on more responsibility for raising the children, which places more importance on her influence than the fathers, which is not equality at all. So I found this article interesting but am slightly confused as to how common her point of view was during this period. - Elizabeth Frank<br />
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I found this article very interesting, as it does shift way from the previous practice of having only one parent involved in the raising of children. It's very much like how my parents raised me. However, speaking to Elizabeth's inquiry, I don't believe that this was a widespread belief. I think it was an idea that was only beginning to emerge, as the 1950's saw more of a return to the "cult of domesticity" way of thinking. I know from stories from my mother that her mother was responsible for all punishment if her or my uncle acted up, and she was the one to assign chores, etc. It was the mothers who were primarily responsible for raising the children, and was not as equitable a job as Louisa Randall Church would like. - Sarah Herzog<br />
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The first part of this reading hit home with me. I can truly understand the way parents felt after the bomb fell on Hiroshima. Church says that a new "concept of civilized living was created". Parents were in fear. I felt this way about the events that occurred on 9/11. These events changed the way I felt (and the rest of America) about air travel. This past summer was the first time I let my children fly unaccompanied and I was scared for them. I could not help but think about 9/11. "WHAT IF"..something happened.... they would be scared and alone.... Nikole Wellman<br />
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== Farnham and Lundberg, Modem Woman: The Lost Sex (1947) ==<br />
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Several of the other readings dealt with the increasing notion of women working outside the home, in addition to raising a family. As Marnia Farnham points out, the progress that has been made in terms of opportunities and technologies for women “serves less to clarify and simplify her life than to complicate it with conflict piled on conflict…” (412). She goes further to say that women are no longer making progress for feminization but have instead begun to become more masculine. Is she suggesting that these women are gradually leaving their traditional gender roles and should be classified as women only in a biological sense? In order to be equal do they both first have to be defined as “masculine?” --Jessica Kilday<br />
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I find this article interesting because I actually see a lot of parallels between this period and what some people today still believe. First, I noticed that they attack the idea of child day care systems that, according to them, leave a child unsatisfied. In today's society I know many women who feel that day care, at least for children below pre-school age, is a bad idea because it doesn't teach them the discipline that children need to learn. I found this connection to today's world very striking as I was reading this article.-Elizabeth Frank<br />
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I personally disagree with the view that child day care for under pre-school aged children is "a bad idea". I think that the only people it might affect negatively are the parents and in a, let's call it "standard," situation, the mother especially. Putting a young child in a system where they interact with other children not only builds their social skills from the get-go, it keeps them from developing attachment issues with over-protective parents, and finally, it builds their immune system by being around other gross babies and toddlers. The affects on a working mother can be negative, despite the good (having time to work and help financially support her family). Take my family for instance. My mother always said she regretted putting her first three children in day care so young (emotionally-she would have liked to stay closer to us in these special, fleeting years), but there were no perceivable effects on us developmentally. With her fourth child, however, she was able to stay home until the child was in elementary school (my little sister is clingy to her parents to this day). ~Jackie Reed <br />
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I am not sure if a woman helped write this article, but I find it interesting that there existed a significant proportion of women activists who did not believe women should work outside of the home and the ideals of the Cult of Domesticity. It almost seems as if it is one of those cases where society's ideals have permanently lowered an individual's self-esteem. I am very tempted to conclude that it is a very similar lowering of self-esteem as that described in Brown v. Board, but I wouldn't want to get ahead of myself. --Justin Mattos<br />
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This reading bothered me a bit... I read it twice to try to understand the way it made me feel. On page 415 the authors say that by the wife working she is making her husband her covert rival and this will impose feelings of insufficiency and weakness and eventually lead to his sexual dissatisfaction HIS sexual dissatisfaction..... I get it... The world revolved around husbands and there sexual nature. Women were criticized for for thinking for themselves and being independent. I have always thought Friedan was over top, but someone had to do something.--Nikole Wellman <br />
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This writing reminded me a little of Betty Friedan. On Page 414, "Many women can find no solution to their dilemma and are defeated in attempts at adaptation. These constitute the array of the sick, unhappy, neurotic, wholly or partly incapable of dealing with life". This makes it sound dreadful to be a women.--Nikole Wellman<br />
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== Pauli Murray, 1947 ==<br />
I found it interesting that the constant theme of more women than men attending college appeared in this article. I guess women have always gone to college in greater numbers than men when given the chance. How strange is that? --Justin Mattos<br />
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I found Pauli Murray’s piece on what she calls the “Jane Crow” Laws very interesting. It really pointed out all the ways the African American women was viewed below everyone else, both in gender and race. – Cat Debelius<br />
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What really interested me about this piece was how Murray raised the point that her white friends said "that they suffer just as much from 'Jane Crow' as I do." I understand that women of all races were put down, especially after the war effort, so as to return to the middle class domestic ideal. But were white women really that oblivious to the fact that black women were fourth class citizens and had an even harder time? I know it sounds like a stupid question but it still blows my mind that white women never recognized how much "better off" they were than black women. --Kelly Wuyscik<br />
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== Joyce Johnson - 1955 ==<br />
The article in MP, "Nonconformist Joyce Johnson..." was very interesting. I really liked he reasoning for sleeping around or before marriage. Since you have stayed so late it didn't matter, as long as you didn't go home. So instead of going home, you find some guy to go home with. First of all, with rules like that you are asking to get pregnant. This account however, was so shady, the means of getting an abortion is insane. She had to be taken by a sketchy guy, to this horribly mean Dr. who frowns on abortions but will perform them illegally. Did all Doctors frown upon their patients when they give abortions? I feel that if you are going to risk your life (not meaning death but imprisonment) and medical license you must be pro choice. I think the sketchiest part of all is when the procedure it over with, this "escort" invites you back to fire island, its almost like he is saying, want to get pregnant again this weekend? --- Amanda Taub<br />
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That advertising executive is the creepiest person I have ever read about, seen in a movie, or met in person. Are there records of these type of abortion liasons - people who knew doctors, and who young girls knew to call to set up a meeting? I imagine this guy could make alot of money either getting paid directly by the girls or taking a kickback from the doctor, or maybe he just liked it in some weird disgusting way. I would have opted for the trip to puerto rico if i was an unmarried pregnant woman in the 1950s. -- Landon Davis<br />
<br />
This article was almost scary to me. I couldn't imagine going thru something like this. The Doctor sounded awful- he acted like he hated what he was doing and didn't really want to do it but yet the money he made apparently made up it ok for him in end. I agree with Landon that the ad exec was the creepiest person ever - even going so far as to hit on the girl he had just taken to get an abortion. That is just insane. I felt so bad for her having to get home by herself and the doctor telling her not to contact him unless something goes wrong! How would she ever get back to him if something went wrong? I wonder how many of these "back room" abortions did go wrong, I am sure probably alot did especially if the girl was really poor and could not afford to get a good doctor.~~Mary Beth Conrad<br />
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== Letter from black reader to ''The Ladder'', in 1957 ==<br />
<br />
I am impressed how an African American lesbian in the 1950’s would be so open to write to this editor especially being so open with her sexuality. “The Ladder” seems like another great stepping stone for women to be heard. Were there many other magazines like this as well? –Ashley Scutari<br />
<br />
This letter was interesting to me because it showed how a middle of the road black lesbian woman felt about being publicly gay. She compared the experience to being black saying something to the affect that black people used to be told to dress and behave in a way that was socially acceptable to white people, but now she didnt flinch when she saw an black person acting differently. Now she was urging lesbians to act socially accpetable so straight people would accept them, because otherwise a "butch" stereotype would shut down the means of communication which I think she saw as the road to acceptance. -- Landon Davis<br />
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== Betty Friedan, "The Problem That Has No Name" ==<br />
In this reading I believe that the "Problem That Has No Name" is some kind of depression. I say that because obviously these women are lacking something from their life. They feel unfulfilled, somethings missing. They want to be recongnized for something more than just being a house wife, mother and so on. I think too because of this expected role women are to play/be was so strong during that time that they felt they could do nothing about it, because they couldn't even really put a name to what they felt. Having a job meant a lot to most of these women. Betty Jeanne Bogg's reading just proves that she is one of many who love there job very much. She states that several times through out her reading. She loved her children and in the end was glad she did stay home with them but in the beginning she was really torn because she "really enjoyed that job." (210) Also in Vicki L. Ruiz's article I thought it was interesting how she mentions that "wages gave women a feeling of independence." (349) Even though her article is about mexican american women, I think that statement holds true for all women during that time. Having that indepence of a job and earning their own money filled the missing thing, and was or could have been the fix I think to the "Problem That Has No Name." --Michelle M.<br />
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== Rickie Solinger, politics of abortion, 1950-1970 ==<br />
I actually felt a little dumb with this week's readings. There was a type of abortion that was mentioned in multiple articles, but the one I remember off the top of my head was "Women and the Politics of Hospital Abortion Committees, 1950-1970." They mentioned 'therapeutic abortions' and either I missed where they they discussed what it is or it is one those things they figure the audience knows what they were talking about. I have no idea what that kind of abortion is, I have never heard of it until this reading. --Ashley Wilkins (feeling a little dumb right now) <br />
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== Vicki Ruiz, "'Star Struck': Acculturation, Adolescence, and Mexican American Women, 1920-1950" ==<br />
Vicki Ruiz addresses the cultural, political and economic influences on adolescent Mexican American women. She ends this essay asking the question, "Can one equate the desire for material goods with the abandonment of Mexican values?" The values held by people vary. If she is referring to the cultural values like language and Mexican customs, then the likelihood of their abandonment is probable in a foreign country like the U.S.--LisaM<br />
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I found Joyce Johnson's piece on whole was very surprising. I thought she was very specific and very honest about her experiences. She mentioned details such as "..that smelled of smoke and soiled clothing..." and "the room looked like a room in which only the very poor would ever wait." I can't help but feel sorry for her in the guilt she must be left with in order to remain independent. I also noticed her ability to see a therapist and wondered how common this was at the time? I know that usually one must have a signficant amount of money for a therapist and I wondered how she afforded the treatment and not the abortion. I also wondered her age and thought it would be quite relevant to the nature of her experiences. -- Meredith Bojarski</div>74.214.55.6https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=328--Week_11_Questions/Comments328--Week 11 Questions/Comments2008-04-03T11:03:21Z<p>74.214.55.6: /* Vicki Ruiz, "'Star Struck': Acculturation, Adolescence, and Mexican American Women, 1920-1950" */</p>
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<div>== Debate topics or comparative questions ==<br />
Should Rosie the Riveter go home and raise a family or continue working? --Justin Mattos<br />
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Did the war truly elevate the status of women? -- Kellye<br />
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== Betty Jeanne Boggs, "Balancing Work and Family" ==<br />
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I really liked the article "Balancing Work and Family." I really loved how this family was backwards, even for the 50s-60s. The husband was still trying to finish school, the wife is working, they aren't that worried about having children. They accept it when it completely surprises them. I really like the fact that Betty Boggs worked so much and she actually liked her job, she got to choose her job, I also do like that she did try working during her first child. The fact that she at least gave it a shot was impressive to me. When she had her second child it was understandable that she wanted to stay home, also her husband by then didn't need her to be working all the time to support the family. I know there is a stereotype of families from the 50s, they are in their perfectly manicured houses and have the perfect families were dad works and mom cooks and cleans all day. But was the manicured family real, or was it created by the media? and were families like the Boggs just as "real" as the ''perfect'' manicured family?<br />
-- Amanda Taub<br />
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I also really liked the article by Betty Jeanne Boggs. It really struck me as out of the time period because of the wife working so the husband could finish school. Also the attitude of if 'one can't go and have fun, well, the other wont go either because its not fair.' I thought that the relationship she and her husband had was amazing, especially for the 1950s and 60s. --Ashley Wilkins<br />
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I agree with the above two posts, although this article definitely showed me that the idealistic picture of family during the 50's wasnt real, and although that was a bit jarring because i had never really thought that such a modern relationship existed back then, it was nice to see that it was possible. Also i feel that often we assume that relationships in the past were purely based on the children both currently present or expected, and that the actual relationship between two people was never prioritized, i like that this is the opposite, this couple truly seems to care for one another if they are blatantly defying the stereotypes of the day in order to make each other's dream possible. --Julie Robert<br />
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I really liked this article too. It really showed how women were able to work outside the home but still raise their kids. It showed how women were torn between work and the family. For instance Boggs, wanted to stay home with the new baby but she wanted to help her husband who wasnt in good health and she really liked her job. It surprises me that you can enjoy working in those rough conditions but I guess it was so liberating that they wanted just wanted to be there. -- Kellye Sorber<br />
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I like this article too because it emphasized how hard women struggled to have a job and a family life. It's a struggle for many women today but there are many daycare options and childcare outside of the home is accepted. I can't even imagine being a working mother with such little support from society. -Kendall Haring<br />
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It is clear from Betty Jeanne Boggs’ piece that staying at home with the kids was still absolutely seen as the women’s job. The pressure she felt to provide for the baby and not burden her husband (and not expect him to help her) is ridiculous. – Cat Debelius<br />
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I found this article interesting because of the role the husband played in raising the kids. It seems to contradict everything we have read about. The mother was the one with the job while the husband was in school and raising the kids. It was also interesting to see the mother's very torn emotions about her role in this backwards family. - Christine W.<br />
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As with everyone else, I also enjoyed this article because it showed the conflict that Betty Jeanne Boggs clearly felt between her job and her family. I think that many women today still feel this pressure. It makes me wonder how much has truly changed since the 50s and 60s. --Katie Nelson<br />
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I found this article interesting as well because it is so anti-sterotypical of that time. You normally don't hear that the husband helped with the kids. I think that was extremely progressive for that time period. It was also interesting because she seemed so torn about wanting to work because she liked her job and wanting to be home for the children and have a better relationship with them.~~Mary Beth Conrad<br />
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I think that in today's society Boggs would have no problem having a family as well as having a fruitful career. It seems as if she couldn't imagine remaining at work because of how she perceived her relationship with her first son. I feel like her struggle to bond with her child would not be present today. There were such high expectations after the war to be the ultimate parent and to create the "best" children for the future. Boggs had the relationships of other mothers and sons of the time period (and the ideal) to compare herself to. Today it seems as if parenting dynamics have adapted and are more like what Boggs and her husband had in the 1950's. -- Meredith Bojarski<br />
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I'm glad that Boggs was able balance her career and family for a long time. She got really lucky, getting a husband who allowed her to do this considering the time they live in. By the time she has had her second child and decides to be more attentive of her family I feel that she has had enough work experience to be able to say she was one of the few women who were privelaged enough to be a married woman AND be able to have a job. Boggs, as a mother, however does run into the whole issue about the estranged relationship that she and her child had becaues of this job and it being a possible problem. By the time she has her second child, she decides to be more involved in it's life. I feel that the whole essay as a whole has a strong "women should have jobs!" attitude but towards the very end all of a sudden it turns to "mothers should stay at home to raise their children" attitude. At least she can say that because she has tried both so has evidence to back her up.- Emely A.<br />
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== Wilma Mankiller, "Indian Relocation" - 1993 about life in the 1950s ==<br />
<br />
After all these years, the government still felt that there was an ‘Indian Problem” that needed to be resolved. The only way they believed to settle it was by removing the Indians from their reservations. Did the government think that just because they were not holding the Native Americans at gun point meant that it was not seen as another Trail of Tears? –Ashley Scutari<br />
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I honestly think that the government knew that what they were doing was wrong but at the same time they thought they were doing the Indians a favor by making life easier for them, getting them jobs, better living conditions (of course they really weren't). You have to remember at this time the government wasn't too thrilled with people beign different, they wanted everyone to be the same to fit some sort of ideal. -- Kellye Sorber<br />
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I thought the most interesting thing about this reading was that it showed how powerful propaganda was and still can be. Here was a family who was by all accounts happy, the children and wife seemed satisfied. They may have lived an archaic life by other standards, but they had never known anything different. Yet the BIA convinced the husband that by moving halfway across the country he could be like the idealized middle class family on the front of a brochure. The same was true with the WWII and post-WWII propaganda we studied in class, there the government seemed to have the ability to turn (most)of the publics' desire to have women work on and off by changing the message on a poster. Sometimes playing on a person's hopes, dreams, and desire to fit in can be far more powerful than any weapon. --- Landon Davis<br />
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I know that the New Deal era had created a program/bill that affected native americans work, lives, and education-some for better and some for worse (if you account for the negatives of westernization). I think that it was a cultural ideology that we had always convinced ourselves, that Native American's were lesser and uncivilized, but could be helped under our white influence and control. Whether, or not the programs, relocations, etc. were meant to be altruistic in any part, so many negative effects resulted from white dominance over native American peoples since the beginning of settlement and, as seen with this piece, well into the 20th century. ~~Jackie Reed<br />
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== Joanna Rubin, "An Unplanned Pregnancy" 1950s ==<br />
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This article really made me sad because the author mentioned feeling so alone because she didn't feel that she could tell her dad about the pregnancy. I really wonder how many young women today still feel this way, since abortions are still a very heated debate in today's society. I would imagine that many young women today also feel this sense of loneliness that Joanna Rubin felt during this time in her life. - Elizabeth Frank<br />
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This article made me sad as well because she had no one to turn to other than the guy that got her pregnant, however I thought it was interesting that they went to some random place in Puerto Rico with a doctor named Pardo. Even though the boyfriend found out about this place through a friend it was no wonder she thought she might end up at some little dark room clinic that really wasn't lagit. She took a huge chance on flying out to this place that she really new nothing about. I would have been scared out of my mind too. There were places in the US that did these illegal abortions so I wonder if many other women went out of the US for abortions?--Michelle M.<br />
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Elizabeth and Michelle mentioned in their posts how alone Joanna Rubin was in her private ordeal. Abortion is not just a physical ordeal. Rubin says that she was okay with her decision in aborting a child, but this is the type of life event that she is less likely to share and will probably conceal. At the time, abortion was illegal in the states and carried a stigma that would have probably alienated her and prevented her seeking emotional support from professionals and other women. Abortion doesn't just take a fetus away, it creates a void and replaces it with guilt and shame.--LisaM<br />
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I thought it was interesting to read Joanna Rubin's account of her unplanned pregnancy. My question is if JOanna knew the risks of sleeping with her boyfriend and she didn't see a future with him then why take those huge risks sleeping with him? It's not like she was uneducated as far as the risks and unsafety of abortions. It is a type of rebellion for women? -- Rose Ferguson<br />
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I also found in MP it interesting to read about Joyce Johnsons experience obtaining an illegal abortion in NYC. What really struck me was how she had to get "drinks" with the doctor to set up the abortion appointment. Also that the room where the procedure took place, everything in the room was white. White representing pure and clean with a procedure of quite the opposite. Was this situation a common trend for women at this time? -- Rose Ferguson<br />
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You can tell from Joanna Rubin’s story that abortion was very difficult in the 1960s. I know that since abortions were illegal and therefore probably undocumented… are there any statistics on how many abortions were conducted during this time period? Also, I know that women that were pregnant and didn’t want to be always felt trapped, but wasn’t abortion always an option… even the “backroom” dangerous kind? – Cat Debelius<br />
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Joanna Rubin's story of her unplanned pregnancy really struck me and I spoke to the norms surrounding sexuality during this time period. I think it's interesting that in a way she tries to explain her relationship with Michael as being very intense and intellectual. I also think it's interesting that she says "I wasn't particularly promiscuous. I liked Michael as a person, but I was ready to stop seeing him except that I got pregnant." It almost seemed like she was trying to rationalize her relationship with him by saying that it was intellectual, then by saying that she was not promiscuous. --Katie Nelson<br />
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This essay offered me a different perspective of sexuallty back in the 50s. Obviously I already assumed that people were having pre-marital sex. The part that struck me however, was how easily Rubin states that she had no feelings for the guy who impregnanted her. I would've expected a more conservative account of it, such as her saying she loved him at some point or at least liked him a lot. - Emely A.<br />
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== Ethel Barol Taylor, "Women Strike for Peace" ==<br />
The article "Women Strike for Peace" by Ethel Barol Taylor really hit home for me. She talks about handing out leaflets saying "Take your children off milk," and she had very good reason to do so. The nuclear fallout from the testing of the atomic bomb at Los Alamos settled over central Iowa to central Missouri, and some unoccupied parts of Wyoming. My mothers entire family is from central Missouri, and she grew up in central Iowa. The radiation from the fallout affected the grass, which the dairy cows grazed on, and the radiation got into the milk. We are now seeing the results of people who drank radiation poisoned milk in the late 1940's and the 1950's in abnormally high instances of thyroid cancer. My grandfather developed thyroid cancer. My grandmother had a gouiter. My mom at age SEVEN also had a thyroid gouiter removed. She later developed thyroid cancer (it was discovered in ~1996) - she had to have her entire thyroid removed. Many of her cousins also developed thyroid cancer. So good for the ladies of Women Strike for Peace! Thanks for trying to raise awareness! - Sarah H.<br />
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The article was also interesting in that these women ware able to protest in such a lady-like manner that they were able to avoid any harsh criticism. Their handling of protests and of HUAC investigations was so impeccable that HUAC and those like them were being ridiculed. It was an interesting way to use the constraints of the time in their favor. - Sarah H.<br />
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== Rachel Carson Answers her Critics - 1963 ==<br />
I found this article to be fairly strange since I always associated the controversy regarding DDT and other insecticides with the environmental issues and campaigns of the 1980's. Is that true or am I misremembering that? --Justin Mattos<br />
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I think Rachel Carson was really ahead of her time in terms of environmentalism. It seems like in postwar America, everyone was ready to use the new technology and new chemicals without thinking about the effects it had on nature. Carson was willing to step up against what everyone believed was progress and ask Americans to take a real look at the way they were affecting the world around them. -Kendall Haring<br />
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I found this article very interesting because harmful pesticides is a problem still dealt with today. I was surprised to see that she was the driving force behind getting changes made. I was also surprised to see how many people seemed to take her word over all the heads of the pesticide companies especially since it dealt with science and that was still seen as a man's field. It was interesting to see how popular her book became and how willing she was to put herself in the spotlight at a time when women were supposed to be in the home. - Christine W.<br />
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I agree with Kendall, Rachel Carson seemed to really be one step ahead of the curve when it came to environmental science. The way she defended herself and her argument blew my mind. You could tell she was well educated and that she knew what she was talking about. She really backed up her argument and made a valid case, and I feel like that's a pretty big step for women. She, in my opinion, proved that educated women deserve respect and made a case, whether she meant to or not, that educated women were a force to be reckoned with. She really caused the American population to stop and take a look around because her argument lasted a lifetime. -Kelly Wuyscik<br />
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== Louisa Randall Church - "Parents, Architects of Peace" 1946 ==<br />
The first reading in MP by Louisa Randall I thought was very interesting. It takes on more of a psychology perspective to parenting as she outlines what she believes are the major duties that parents have for their children. First of all, when talking about raising the children, Randall uses the term “parents” in the plural and discusses the equal responsibility of the man and the woman in raising the children, which shows a definite shift from the “women in the home” attitude that had prevailed previously. Also, it shows the growing responsibilities that parents have toward children. It extends the previous belief that women were responsible for raising moral children further to include “love and affection, equal rights, discipline, freedom, enrichment, cooperation, and education.” I also found it funny in the end when she suggested that “School officials, everywhere, and citizens, too, should give active support to the idea of training for parenthood…” (412). --Jessica Kilday<br />
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I also found this article interesting but what stood out to me was the reference to parents (plural) and the emphasis she seems to place on equality within the household. I'm wondering how many women during this period shared this ideal since this is also the period where women were shifting back to the world of the home and were taking on more responsibility for raising the children, which places more importance on her influence than the fathers, which is not equality at all. So I found this article interesting but am slightly confused as to how common her point of view was during this period. - Elizabeth Frank<br />
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I found this article very interesting, as it does shift way from the previous practice of having only one parent involved in the raising of children. It's very much like how my parents raised me. However, speaking to Elizabeth's inquiry, I don't believe that this was a widespread belief. I think it was an idea that was only beginning to emerge, as the 1950's saw more of a return to the "cult of domesticity" way of thinking. I know from stories from my mother that her mother was responsible for all punishment if her or my uncle acted up, and she was the one to assign chores, etc. It was the mothers who were primarily responsible for raising the children, and was not as equitable a job as Louisa Randall Church would like. - Sarah Herzog<br />
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== Farnham and Lundberg, Modem Woman: The Lost Sex (1947) ==<br />
<br />
Several of the other readings dealt with the increasing notion of women working outside the home, in addition to raising a family. As Marnia Farnham points out, the progress that has been made in terms of opportunities and technologies for women “serves less to clarify and simplify her life than to complicate it with conflict piled on conflict…” (412). She goes further to say that women are no longer making progress for feminization but have instead begun to become more masculine. Is she suggesting that these women are gradually leaving their traditional gender roles and should be classified as women only in a biological sense? In order to be equal do they both first have to be defined as “masculine?” --Jessica Kilday<br />
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I find this article interesting because I actually see a lot of parallels between this period and what some people today still believe. First, I noticed that they attack the idea of child day care systems that, according to them, leave a child unsatisfied. In today's society I know many women who feel that day care, at least for children below pre-school age, is a bad idea because it doesn't teach them the discipline that children need to learn. I found this connection to today's world very striking as I was reading this article.-Elizabeth Frank<br />
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I personally disagree with the view that child day care for under pre-school aged children is "a bad idea". I think that the only people it might affect negatively are the parents and in a, let's call it "standard," situation, the mother especially. Putting a young child in a system where they interact with other children not only builds their social skills from the get-go, it keeps them from developing attachment issues with over-protective parents, and finally, it builds their immune system by being around other gross babies and toddlers. The affects on a working mother can be negative, despite the good (having time to work and help financially support her family). Take my family for instance. My mother always said she regretted putting her first three children in day care so young (emotionally-she would have liked to stay closer to us in these special, fleeting years), but there were no perceivable effects on us developmentally. With her fourth child, however, she was able to stay home until the child was in elementary school (my little sister is clingy to her parents to this day). ~Jackie Reed <br />
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I am not sure if a woman helped write this article, but I find it interesting that there existed a significant proportion of women activists who did not believe women should work outside of the home and the ideals of the Cult of Domesticity. It almost seems as if it is one of those cases where society's ideals have permanently lowered an individual's self-esteem. I am very tempted to conclude that it is a very similar lowering of self-esteem as that described in Brown v. Board, but I wouldn't want to get ahead of myself. --Justin Mattos<br />
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== Pauli Murray, 1947 ==<br />
I found it interesting that the constant theme of more women than men attending college appeared in this article. I guess women have always gone to college in greater numbers than men when given the chance. How strange is that? --Justin Mattos<br />
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I found Pauli Murray’s piece on what she calls the “Jane Crow” Laws very interesting. It really pointed out all the ways the African American women was viewed below everyone else, both in gender and race. – Cat Debelius<br />
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What really interested me about this piece was how Murray raised the point that her white friends said "that they suffer just as much from 'Jane Crow' as I do." I understand that women of all races were put down, especially after the war effort, so as to return to the middle class domestic ideal. But were white women really that oblivious to the fact that black women were fourth class citizens and had an even harder time? I know it sounds like a stupid question but it still blows my mind that white women never recognized how much "better off" they were than black women. --Kelly Wuyscik<br />
<br />
== Joyce Johnson - 1955 ==<br />
The article in MP, "Nonconformist Joyce Johnson..." was very interesting. I really liked he reasoning for sleeping around or before marriage. Since you have stayed so late it didn't matter, as long as you didn't go home. So instead of going home, you find some guy to go home with. First of all, with rules like that you are asking to get pregnant. This account however, was so shady, the means of getting an abortion is insane. She had to be taken by a sketchy guy, to this horribly mean Dr. who frowns on abortions but will perform them illegally. Did all Doctors frown upon their patients when they give abortions? I feel that if you are going to risk your life (not meaning death but imprisonment) and medical license you must be pro choice. I think the sketchiest part of all is when the procedure it over with, this "escort" invites you back to fire island, its almost like he is saying, want to get pregnant again this weekend? --- Amanda Taub<br />
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That advertising executive is the creepiest person I have ever read about, seen in a movie, or met in person. Are there records of these type of abortion liasons - people who knew doctors, and who young girls knew to call to set up a meeting? I imagine this guy could make alot of money either getting paid directly by the girls or taking a kickback from the doctor, or maybe he just liked it in some weird disgusting way. I would have opted for the trip to puerto rico if i was an unmarried pregnant woman in the 1950s. -- Landon Davis<br />
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This article was almost scary to me. I couldn't imagine going thru something like this. The Doctor sounded awful- he acted like he hated what he was doing and didn't really want to do it but yet the money he made apparently made up it ok for him in end. I agree with Landon that the ad exec was the creepiest person ever - even going so far as to hit on the girl he had just taken to get an abortion. That is just insane. I felt so bad for her having to get home by herself and the doctor telling her not to contact him unless something goes wrong! How would she ever get back to him if something went wrong? I wonder how many of these "back room" abortions did go wrong, I am sure probably alot did especially if the girl was really poor and could not afford to get a good doctor.~~Mary Beth Conrad<br />
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== Letter from black reader to ''The Ladder'', in 1957 ==<br />
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I am impressed how an African American lesbian in the 1950’s would be so open to write to this editor especially being so open with her sexuality. “The Ladder” seems like another great stepping stone for women to be heard. Were there many other magazines like this as well? –Ashley Scutari<br />
<br />
This letter was interesting to me because it showed how a middle of the road black lesbian woman felt about being publicly gay. She compared the experience to being black saying something to the affect that black people used to be told to dress and behave in a way that was socially acceptable to white people, but now she didnt flinch when she saw an black person acting differently. Now she was urging lesbians to act socially accpetable so straight people would accept them, because otherwise a "butch" stereotype would shut down the means of communication which I think she saw as the road to acceptance. -- Landon Davis<br />
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== Betty Friedan, "The Problem That Has No Name" ==<br />
In this reading I believe that the "Problem That Has No Name" is some kind of depression. I say that because obviously these women are lacking something from their life. They feel unfulfilled, somethings missing. They want to be recongnized for something more than just being a house wife, mother and so on. I think too because of this expected role women are to play/be was so strong during that time that they felt they could do nothing about it, because they couldn't even really put a name to what they felt. Having a job meant a lot to most of these women. Betty Jeanne Bogg's reading just proves that she is one of many who love there job very much. She states that several times through out her reading. She loved her children and in the end was glad she did stay home with them but in the beginning she was really torn because she "really enjoyed that job." (210) Also in Vicki L. Ruiz's article I thought it was interesting how she mentions that "wages gave women a feeling of independence." (349) Even though her article is about mexican american women, I think that statement holds true for all women during that time. Having that indepence of a job and earning their own money filled the missing thing, and was or could have been the fix I think to the "Problem That Has No Name." --Michelle M.<br />
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== Rickie Solinger, politics of abortion, 1950-1970 ==<br />
I actually felt a little dumb with this week's readings. There was a type of abortion that was mentioned in multiple articles, but the one I remember off the top of my head was "Women and the Politics of Hospital Abortion Committees, 1950-1970." They mentioned 'therapeutic abortions' and either I missed where they they discussed what it is or it is one those things they figure the audience knows what they were talking about. I have no idea what that kind of abortion is, I have never heard of it until this reading. --Ashley Wilkins (feeling a little dumb right now) <br />
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<br />
== Vicki Ruiz, "'Star Struck': Acculturation, Adolescence, and Mexican American Women, 1920-1950" ==<br />
Vicki Ruiz addresses the cultural, political and economic influences on adolescent Mexican American women. She ends this essay asking the question, "Can one equate the desire for material goods with the abandonment of Mexican values?" I think that the loss of Mexican values in seeking material comforts can vary and is based upon the environment in which they seek them.--LisaM<br />
<br />
I found Joyce Johnson's piece on whole was very surprising. I thought she was very specific and very honest about her experiences. She mentioned details such as "..that smelled of smoke and soiled clothing..." and "the room looked like a room in which only the very poor would ever wait." I can't help but feel sorry for her in the guilt she must be left with in order to remain independent. I also noticed her ability to see a therapist and wondered how common this was at the time? I know that usually one must have a signficant amount of money for a therapist and I wondered how she afforded the treatment and not the abortion. I also wondered her age and thought it would be quite relevant to the nature of her experiences. -- Meredith Bojarski</div>74.214.55.6https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=328--Week_10_Questions/Comments328--Week 10 Questions/Comments2008-03-27T02:38:41Z<p>74.214.55.6: /* Hariette Arnow, “Wartime Migration” – */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Overarching questions ==<br />
I noticed in the movie in class and in the pictures, that the women were wearing pants. I think it is mentioned in a caption on page 179 in MAW, and several other times throughout the reading. This is quite a change from the ridiculous bicyling outfits we studied earlier. Was this a case of desperate times call for desperate measures or was it more acceptable during this time period for women to dress comfortably and efficiently at work/home while doing work? ---Landon Davis<br />
<br />
One thing i noticed throughout the MAW reading was a lack of overt patriotism. The oral history "Rosie the Riveter" by Hill focuses solely on the monetary aspects she gains by working. In "Women in the Armed Forces" the letters written by Stagemen only talk of how exciting it is, and allows her to stroke her ego as she talks about getting out of the plane and surprising all the men. I am not saying what they were doing was not patriotic because it was. But it does not sound like patriotism was the first reason alot of these women chose to work. Again in MP Bethune urges FDR to let African American women work. Bethune uses the term "united patriotism" but it seems more like a means to an end (equality) rather than the end in itself. Yerger expresses my skepticism on page 373 saying something like "women use the patriotic cause of their work as a front for the financial cause." ---- Landon Davis<br />
<br />
<br />
== Debate Topics ==<br />
Debate topic: did the war economically elevate families during its duration or impoverish them? -- Justin Mattos<br />
<br />
<br />
== Fanny Christina Hill, “Rosie the Riveter” ==<br />
<br />
I really enjoyed reading this article. It was interesting how they went to the school to train and recruit women for jobs. I found it interesting how these women went through several checks upon entering the building to work each day. I can understand the ID badge checks but why would they want to check their lunch? -- Kellye Sorber<br />
<br />
I also found this article interesting especially because Fanny Hill talks about if she didn't like the job, she left it, and she wouldn't put up with a job that she didn't like. I really enjoyed reading that about her because I think that above all else show what kind of woman she was, a strong woman who knew what she wanted. Although, I was also confused as to why they would check their lunches, did they check them on the way out as well? Was it a fear of spying that made them do that?- Elizabeth Frank<br />
<br />
In this article, she talks about the hiring process and how there were so many more women than men. She says "Most of the men was gone, and they weren't hiring too many men unless they had a good excuse." This seems like the reverse of the pattern during the Depression. During that time, women were not hired unless they had serious economic need. Now that it is wartime, it seems as though the encouragement is for men to fight in the war, so they will not be hired unless they have an excuse to not go into war. --Katie Nelson<br />
<br />
== Marion Stegeman, “Women in the Armed Forces” ==<br />
Marion Stegeman's letters in "Women in the Armed Forces" are interesting when she talks about the time she landed at Ballinger Air Field in order to get her bearings. Didn't the Squn. Commander have anything more pressing to do? It all seems a little strange to me considering the fact that we are now living in the middle of a gas crisis. --Justin Mattos<br />
<br />
<br />
At the end of Marion Stegman's letters she expresses her concern to her mother about her "love" Ned and how she wants to marry him but also how she will work indefinitely. During this time when the number of women working rapidly increased, were long distance relationships even possible? Or were couples forced to go their own way for survival purposes and hope to reconnect safely at a later time? --- Rose Feguson<br />
<br />
Marion Stegeman’s letters to her mother about being a WASP really highlight both the excitement and dangers of being in the AirForce. I am sure Marion’s mother worried about her, and I would like to have read her responses… but I was wondering if the mother ever read the letters and regretted never having those types of opportunities in her lifetime? – Cat Debelius<br />
<br />
I LOVED Marion's letters! The way she changed her signature to sum up the mood of the letter and just the overall love she seemed to have for being a WASP was amazing. She seems to be a perfect example of why women wanted to get involved with the military in some fashion -- they were doing the jobs men used to do and were getting excellent credit for their accomplishments and being commended for their attitudes and hard work as women in the military. I think the letter about some of her friends being shot down and her other friend breaking down and leaving are both important points as well, though. Both of those reinforce the fact that these jobs weren't meant to be romanticized. They may have been women doing these jobs, but they were just as dangerous and women did die like men would have. Just because it was a woman doing the job did not mean that they were safe from harm. But my favorite letter had to be the one where she was blown off course and had to land on a different base. The statement, "The Army cadets and instructors nearly fell out of their plane when they saw a ''girl'' taxiing by in a B.T.!" I think is a perfect summation of some of how impressive some of these women truly were. Rosie the Riveter should be proud. -- Kelly Wuyscik<br />
<br />
I also really enjoyed Marion Stegeman's letters in MAW. I particularly enjoyed the last letter when she discusses her relationship with Ned and also her decisions to be a WASP. I love the line "I can do what I'm told gracefully now only because -- underneath it all-- I know i don't have to." I think that this highlights the role of choice and freedom in the wartime effort. --Katie Nelson<br />
<br />
I really Loved Marion Stegeman's letters. Especially since I had done my interview last week with my grandmother and I found out that she was part of the armed forces, not during WWII but after. But its cool to read these letters and know that a person in your family was part of it. I enjoyed reading the letters because they were full of so much emotion. There is such a difference between reading a male soldiers letters and a womans. The women show excitement and fear and sadness, they are great examples to know what these women were feeling at the time. I agree with Kelly, just her signature or her Dear Mother, or Mom, just showed what mood she was in. It also was surprising to me how accepting the men were with Stegeman and how much respect they gave her because of the talent she had. -- Amanda Taub<br />
<br />
== Hariette Arnow, “Wartime Migration” – ==<br />
<br />
Harriette Arnow’s excerpt on wartime migration discusses the confusion many women felt moving during WWII. It is clear from this article that wartime for women definitely wasn’t all opportunity and smiles, women also struggled to adapt and lived lives they probably never expected to. – Cat Debelius<br />
<br />
This is one of those pieces that exhibits the silent burden of the woman. Gertie will not realize her dream of owning a farm because her dream is shadowed by Clovis's amibition to live in the big city and earn a higher wage. The ability to remain in Kentucky is probably not an option; she is burdened with the inability to sufficiently support her family, and she carries the guilt of a mother. "In was in truth like her mother said: the children had a right to live with their father." She is in charge of putting a meal together that is supposed to please her husband, she waits on the family, and worries about money. Her husband's attitude seems irresponsible and insensitive to the situation he has placed his family. They can't afford meat on the table, but he owns a car. He puts his head down on the pillow and falls asleep while Gertie remains awake. Gertie is trapped in a world that is dictated to her.--LisaM<br />
<br />
== Monica Sone, “Japanese Relocation” – ==<br />
<br />
<br />
I really enjoyed reading this one because it actually suprised me. I expected it to be a far more depressing story and while it was very sad that these families had to deal with this I also felt like it was not nearly as sad as it could have been. I found Monica Sone's mother inspiring because she seemed to look for the good in everything. Although the tent/cabin/apartment wasn't well built, she was happy that there were dandelions, because it brought happiness into the room. As well as how she reacted to the latrine being close, she didn't say oh this is gonna smell she said oh look! we won't have to walk a long ways. I found that aspect of the story very very inspiring. - Elizabeth Frank<br />
<br />
I agree with Elizabeth. When I began reading the introduction for this account and the autobiography itself, I was prepared for something much more depressing. Not to say this wasn't at all upsetting or hard to read, it's just that having the mother in the story and reading about how lighthearted she seemed to be made it seem like she made the stay more bearable. You could definitely see tensions between first generation immigrants and families that had been in the states longer because the older the men and women were, the more disgruntled they seemed to be. When Monica discussed her meal at the dining hall, the description of the Issei man she was next to compared to the description of the messy little girl next to her made that tension apparent. The last paragraph really got to me, though, when she brought up the wire fence. "What was I doing behind a fence like a criminal?" It wasn't fair the way these people were treated and I'm just grateful Monica was lucky enough to leave and go off to school. -- Kelly Wuyscik<br />
<br />
I feel bad for how Monica Sone feels with not knowing where she belongs. She is not considered a U.S. citizen anymore nor is she a citizen from Japan such as her mother and father. Sone feels more like a criminal. She and her family have followed all the American government rules such as paying taxes and are still discriminated against because of her Japanese ancestry. –Ashley Scutari<br />
<br />
== Ruth Marshak, “Women of Wartime Los Alamos” ==<br />
<br />
The contrast between the concluding sentence of Ruth Marshak's "Women of Wartime Los Alamos" and the rest of the reading is interesting. She describes life as being so dreary and containing so many hardships and then ends by saying it was a great experience. Is that due to the fact that certain portions of her account were left out by the editors of the book in which her account is located? --Justin Mattos<br />
<br />
I had the same question that Justin remarks on above. She started off with describing the place as this horrible entity, but ends it with Los Alamos being an educational experience and that they'll never feel that connected to a town again. Are there parts left out? or does she write this article in this way so that she could throw the bit of twist at the end? -- Ashley Wilkins<br />
<br />
I thought it was interesting to read "Women of Wartime Los Alamos" by Ruth Marshak, because it showed a less common war time experience. It sounds like the woman who was describing her experience in this selection didn’t have a family with children, were there other families that moved there with children as well. If so, were these communities complete with some kind of education system as well? She describes the social aspects but not much further. What were the women’s roles in Los Alamos if they didn’t have children and while the husbands were working in the lab? --Jessica Kilday<br />
<br />
== Valerie Matsumoto, “Japanese American Women during WWII” ==<br />
Matsumoto discusses “Japanese American Women during World War II” in Unequal Sisters. Part of it deals with the resettlement of some of the women from the Japanese internment camps, most of them being younger women attending college. Today, people tend to associate college educated people, and students of college age, with more liberal ideals. Was that true during this time as well? Was it easier for younger women of Japanese decent to be accepted in a college or university setting than if they were older and returning to a workforce with people of older generations? And did geography also play a role in how well or readily they were accepted? --Jessica Kilday<br />
<br />
<br />
Reading Matsumoto's "Japanese American Women during World War II" reminded me of a story I had to read in English class during high school. The other story said that people would destroy the houses of Japanese-Americans and take what they wanted, destroying the rest. Did this happen often? How did women deal with a destroyed home when they returned? Did families return to the homes and properties they had before the internments? Were they able to? --Ashley Wilkins<br />
<br />
The article in US on the Japanese women I thought was interesting because right after the bombing of Pearl Harbor all of the Japanese were put in camps, and the Americans saw them as a threat, therefore putting them into these camps as a way to keep a watchfull eye on them as if they were to do something or had some part in why the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. This sounds all to familiar. When 9-11 happened Americans suddenly saw all middle easterners as a threat that were in the US. Although we did not throw them into camps, I remember watching the news and how they interviewed some immagrant middle easterners and how now they were treated differently.I've often wondered if the role was reveresed and an American white or black did something horrific in another country if other races would change the way the think of us, but by saying that what do other races, ethnicities think of us? I also thought how amazing it was that the Japanese found something good out of being kept in these camps, and utilized new skills they formed once they were out and used it to their advantage.--Michelle M.<br />
<br />
== Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston, Schoolgirl at Manzanar, 1940s ==<br />
<br />
In MP, I found it interesting to read about Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston whose father would not allow her to be confirmed in the Catholic church. He felt strongly that if she were confirmed she would never marry, especially a nice Japanese boy which is what he wanted. Was this the case with most girls around her age, with all religions? -- Rose Ferguson<br />
<br />
I don't think that the Japanese are unique in wanting a daughter to marry a man from the same ethnic background. I think that this has been a trait exhibited by other nationalities as well. What did strike me in this piece was a sense of creating an existence that seemed normal. Jeanne talked about school and after school activities like any other child. She doesn't project a sense of hopelessness. Instead she continues to study and develops interests in activities that she will continue once she leaves the internment camp.--LisaM<br />
<br />
== Photograph collections at Library of Congress ==<br />
<br />
I thought the photos of women during WWII were extremely interesting and mostly promote the stereotypical female experience on the home front. Are there any images that reflect the struggles that women faced at this time? How tired they were? The moving, long hours, and household duties? – Cat Debelius<br />
<br />
I too found the photos very interesting. I was curious as to accurate they are for the overall population. Most seemed to show happy women who were excited to be doing their part but what about those that struggled? None of the picture really showed any kind of real hardship. I would have liked to see a larger variety of photos. -- Kellye Sorber<br />
<br />
== Mary McLeod Bethune on black women and the war effort, 1940 ==<br />
<br />
I really liked this letter to the president. I was impressed that a black women would write to the president to encourage him to allow black women to work for the war effort. Bethune really seems to show how sincere her desire is to serve her country and wants to be given an equal shot. Did other black women write similar letters? What other ways did theses women try to find a way to serve?-- Kellye Sorber<br />
<br />
I also think it is great that African American women wrote to the president urging him to allow colored women job opportunities during the war. Did Roosevelt really make much of an effort to help African American women with decent jobs? –Ashley Scutari<br />
<br />
== Norma Yerger Queen, daycare worker in 1944 ==<br />
<br />
The second article (Mrs. Norma Yerger) she makes the statement that "Many women thoroughly enjoy working & getting away from the home."(373) I'm sure many did enjoy their jobs since some working conditions had improved but probably there were just as many who didn't like their jobs, for whatever reason. Also relating that statement to the movie we watched in class; there was one part were the women were ok with giving their job back to the man who once had the position before going off to war. How true is that? Were many simply ok with going back to being house wife and home maker, or did they really enjoy their job enough like the article says, therefore not wanting to give up their job.--Michelle M.<br />
<br />
I found this article slightly amusing.I strongly agree with how she only would work 4 days a week so she could keep up with the house work. She shouldn't have to work all week and come home and do everything then go to bed and start all over again. What amuses me was that she talks about how her and her husband would try to split the house work but it just never worked out. He always had something to do, but so did Queen, its just because she was a woman domestic work was always on her list of things to do. I just really liked when she said when we did the house work it just didn't "click," and the fact that she is ok with this is even more amusing. I know as a girl in today's society if I were her I would not allow my husband to read the paper while I bust my butt cleaning everything in the house. -- Amanda Taub<br />
<br />
== Women's Army Corps in North Africa and the Mediterranean, 1953 ==<br />
Did the WACs's performance in the 5th Army have any influence on how they were treated as military personnel after World War II? --Justin Mattos</div>74.214.55.6https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=328--Week_10_Questions/Comments328--Week 10 Questions/Comments2008-03-27T01:59:15Z<p>74.214.55.6: /* Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston, Schoolgirl at Manzanar, 1940s */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Overarching questions ==<br />
I noticed in the movie in class and in the pictures, that the women were wearing pants. I think it is mentioned in a caption on page 179 in MAW, and several other times throughout the reading. This is quite a change from the ridiculous bicyling outfits we studied earlier. Was this a case of desperate times call for desperate measures or was it more acceptable during this time period for women to dress comfortably and efficiently at work/home while doing work? ---Landon Davis<br />
<br />
One thing i noticed throughout the MAW reading was a lack of overt patriotism. The oral history "Rosie the Riveter" by Hill focuses solely on the monetary aspects she gains by working. In "Women in the Armed Forces" the letters written by Stagemen only talk of how exciting it is, and allows her to stroke her ego as she talks about getting out of the plane and surprising all the men. I am not saying what they were doing was not patriotic because it was. But it does not sound like patriotism was the first reason alot of these women chose to work. Again in MP Bethune urges FDR to let African American women work. Bethune uses the term "united patriotism" but it seems more like a means to an end (equality) rather than the end in itself. Yerger expresses my skepticism on page 373 saying something like "women use the patriotic cause of their work as a front for the financial cause." ---- Landon Davis<br />
<br />
<br />
== Debate Topics ==<br />
Debate topic: did the war economically elevate families during its duration or impoverish them? -- Justin Mattos<br />
<br />
<br />
== Fanny Christina Hill, “Rosie the Riveter” ==<br />
<br />
I really enjoyed reading this article. It was interesting how they went to the school to train and recruit women for jobs. I found it interesting how these women went through several checks upon entering the building to work each day. I can understand the ID badge checks but why would they want to check their lunch? -- Kellye Sorber<br />
<br />
I also found this article interesting especially because Fanny Hill talks about if she didn't like the job, she left it, and she wouldn't put up with a job that she didn't like. I really enjoyed reading that about her because I think that above all else show what kind of woman she was, a strong woman who knew what she wanted. Although, I was also confused as to why they would check their lunches, did they check them on the way out as well? Was it a fear of spying that made them do that?- Elizabeth Frank<br />
<br />
In this article, she talks about the hiring process and how there were so many more women than men. She says "Most of the men was gone, and they weren't hiring too many men unless they had a good excuse." This seems like the reverse of the pattern during the Depression. During that time, women were not hired unless they had serious economic need. Now that it is wartime, it seems as though the encouragement is for men to fight in the war, so they will not be hired unless they have an excuse to not go into war. --Katie Nelson<br />
<br />
== Marion Stegeman, “Women in the Armed Forces” ==<br />
Marion Stegeman's letters in "Women in the Armed Forces" are interesting when she talks about the time she landed at Ballinger Air Field in order to get her bearings. Didn't the Squn. Commander have anything more pressing to do? It all seems a little strange to me considering the fact that we are now living in the middle of a gas crisis. --Justin Mattos<br />
<br />
<br />
At the end of Marion Stegman's letters she expresses her concern to her mother about her "love" Ned and how she wants to marry him but also how she will work indefinitely. During this time when the number of women working rapidly increased, were long distance relationships even possible? Or were couples forced to go their own way for survival purposes and hope to reconnect safely at a later time? --- Rose Feguson<br />
<br />
Marion Stegeman’s letters to her mother about being a WASP really highlight both the excitement and dangers of being in the AirForce. I am sure Marion’s mother worried about her, and I would like to have read her responses… but I was wondering if the mother ever read the letters and regretted never having those types of opportunities in her lifetime? – Cat Debelius<br />
<br />
I LOVED Marion's letters! The way she changed her signature to sum up the mood of the letter and just the overall love she seemed to have for being a WASP was amazing. She seems to be a perfect example of why women wanted to get involved with the military in some fashion -- they were doing the jobs men used to do and were getting excellent credit for their accomplishments and being commended for their attitudes and hard work as women in the military. I think the letter about some of her friends being shot down and her other friend breaking down and leaving are both important points as well, though. Both of those reinforce the fact that these jobs weren't meant to be romanticized. They may have been women doing these jobs, but they were just as dangerous and women did die like men would have. Just because it was a woman doing the job did not mean that they were safe from harm. But my favorite letter had to be the one where she was blown off course and had to land on a different base. The statement, "The Army cadets and instructors nearly fell out of their plane when they saw a ''girl'' taxiing by in a B.T.!" I think is a perfect summation of some of how impressive some of these women truly were. Rosie the Riveter should be proud. -- Kelly Wuyscik<br />
<br />
I also really enjoyed Marion Stegeman's letters in MAW. I particularly enjoyed the last letter when she discusses her relationship with Ned and also her decisions to be a WASP. I love the line "I can do what I'm told gracefully now only because -- underneath it all-- I know i don't have to." I think that this highlights the role of choice and freedom in the wartime effort. --Katie Nelson<br />
<br />
== Hariette Arnow, “Wartime Migration” – ==<br />
<br />
Harriette Arnow’s excerpt on wartime migration discusses the confusion many women felt moving during WWII. It is clear from this article that wartime for women definitely wasn’t all opportunity and smiles, women also struggled to adapt and lived lives they probably never expected to. – Cat Debelius<br />
<br />
== Monica Sone, “Japanese Relocation” – ==<br />
<br />
<br />
I really enjoyed reading this one because it actually suprised me. I expected it to be a far more depressing story and while it was very sad that these families had to deal with this I also felt like it was not nearly as sad as it could have been. I found Monica Sone's mother inspiring because she seemed to look for the good in everything. Although the tent/cabin/apartment wasn't well built, she was happy that there were dandelions, because it brought happiness into the room. As well as how she reacted to the latrine being close, she didn't say oh this is gonna smell she said oh look! we won't have to walk a long ways. I found that aspect of the story very very inspiring. - Elizabeth Frank<br />
<br />
I agree with Elizabeth. When I began reading the introduction for this account and the autobiography itself, I was prepared for something much more depressing. Not to say this wasn't at all upsetting or hard to read, it's just that having the mother in the story and reading about how lighthearted she seemed to be made it seem like she made the stay more bearable. You could definitely see tensions between first generation immigrants and families that had been in the states longer because the older the men and women were, the more disgruntled they seemed to be. When Monica discussed her meal at the dining hall, the description of the Issei man she was next to compared to the description of the messy little girl next to her made that tension apparent. The last paragraph really got to me, though, when she brought up the wire fence. "What was I doing behind a fence like a criminal?" It wasn't fair the way these people were treated and I'm just grateful Monica was lucky enough to leave and go off to school. -- Kelly Wuyscik<br />
<br />
== Ruth Marshak, “Women of Wartime Los Alamos” ==<br />
<br />
The contrast between the concluding sentence of Ruth Marshak's "Women of Wartime Los Alamos" and the rest of the reading is interesting. She describes life as being so dreary and containing so many hardships and then ends by saying it was a great experience. Is that due to the fact that certain portions of her account were left out by the editors of the book in which her account is located? --Justin Mattos<br />
<br />
I had the same question that Justin remarks on above. She started off with describing the place as this horrible entity, but ends it with Los Alamos being an educational experience and that they'll never feel that connected to a town again. Are there parts left out? or does she write this article in this way so that she could throw the bit of twist at the end? -- Ashley Wilkins<br />
<br />
I thought it was interesting to read "Women of Wartime Los Alamos" by Ruth Marshak, because it showed a less common war time experience. It sounds like the woman who was describing her experience in this selection didn’t have a family with children, were there other families that moved there with children as well. If so, were these communities complete with some kind of education system as well? She describes the social aspects but not much further. What were the women’s roles in Los Alamos if they didn’t have children and while the husbands were working in the lab? --Jessica Kilday<br />
<br />
== Valerie Matsumoto, “Japanese American Women during WWII” ==<br />
Matsumoto discusses “Japanese American Women during World War II” in Unequal Sisters. Part of it deals with the resettlement of some of the women from the Japanese internment camps, most of them being younger women attending college. Today, people tend to associate college educated people, and students of college age, with more liberal ideals. Was that true during this time as well? Was it easier for younger women of Japanese decent to be accepted in a college or university setting than if they were older and returning to a workforce with people of older generations? And did geography also play a role in how well or readily they were accepted? --Jessica Kilday<br />
<br />
<br />
Reading Matsumoto's "Japanese American Women during World War II" reminded me of a story I had to read in English class during high school. The other story said that people would destroy the houses of Japanese-Americans and take what they wanted, destroying the rest. Did this happen often? How did women deal with a destroyed home when they returned? Did families return to the homes and properties they had before the internments? Were they able to? --Ashley Wilkins<br />
<br />
The article in US on the Japanese women I thought was interesting because right after the bombing of Pearl Harbor all of the Japanese were put in camps, and the Americans saw them as a threat, therefore putting them into these camps as a way to keep a watchfull eye on them as if they were to do something or had some part in why the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. This sounds all to familiar. When 9-11 happened Americans suddenly saw all middle easterners as a threat that were in the US. Although we did not throw them into camps, I remember watching the news and how they interviewed some immagrant middle easterners and how now they were treated differently.I've often wondered if the role was reveresed and an American white or black did something horrific in another country if other races would change the way the think of us, but by saying that what do other races, ethnicities think of us? I also thought how amazing it was that the Japanese found something good out of being kept in these camps, and utilized new skills they formed once they were out and used it to their advantage.--Michelle M.<br />
<br />
== Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston, Schoolgirl at Manzanar, 1940s ==<br />
<br />
In MP, I found it interesting to read about Jeanne Wakatsuki Houston whose father would not allow her to be confirmed in the Catholic church. He felt strongly that if she were confirmed she would never marry, especially a nice Japanese boy which is what he wanted. Was this the case with most girls around her age, with all religions? -- Rose Ferguson<br />
<br />
I don't think that the Japanese are unique in wanting a daughter to marry a man from the same ethnic background. I think that this has been a trait exhibited by other nationalities as well. What did strike me in this piece was a sense of creating an existence that seemed normal. Jeanne talked about school and after school activities like any other child. She doesn't project a sense of hopelessness. Instead she continues to study and develops interests in activities that she will continue once she leaves the internment camp.--LisaM<br />
<br />
== Photograph collections at Library of Congress ==<br />
<br />
I thought the photos of women during WWII were extremely interesting and mostly promote the stereotypical female experience on the home front. Are there any images that reflect the struggles that women faced at this time? How tired they were? The moving, long hours, and household duties? – Cat Debelius<br />
<br />
I too found the photos very interesting. I was curious as to accurate they are for the overall population. Most seemed to show happy women who were excited to be doing their part but what about those that struggled? None of the picture really showed any kind of real hardship. I would have liked to see a larger variety of photos. -- Kellye Sorber<br />
<br />
== Mary McLeod Bethune on black women and the war effort, 1940 ==<br />
<br />
I really liked this letter to the president. I was impressed that a black women would write to the president to encourage him to allow black women to work for the war effort. Bethune really seems to show how sincere her desire is to serve her country and wants to be given an equal shot. Did other black women write similar letters? What other ways did theses women try to find a way to serve?-- Kellye Sorber<br />
<br />
== Norma Yerger Queen, daycare worker in 1944 ==<br />
<br />
The second article (Mrs. Norma Yerger) she makes the statement that "Many women thoroughly enjoy working & getting away from the home."(373) I'm sure many did enjoy their jobs since some working conditions had improved but probably there were just as many who didn't like their jobs, for whatever reason. Also relating that statement to the movie we watched in class; there was one part were the women were ok with giving their job back to the man who once had the position before going off to war. How true is that? Were many simply ok with going back to being house wife anhome maker, or did they really enjoy their job enough like the article says, therefore not wanting to give up their job.--Michelle M.<br />
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== Women's Army Corps in North Africa and the Mediterranean, 1953 ==<br />
Did the WACs's performance in the 5th Army have any influence on how they were treated as military personnel after World War II? --Justin Mattos</div>74.214.55.6https://mcclurken.umwhistory.org/wiki/index.php?title=328--Week_9_Questions/Comments328--Week 9 Questions/Comments2008-03-20T03:04:42Z<p>74.214.55.6: /* All Eleanor Roosevelt readings */</p>
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<div>== "I Want You Women Up North to Know" by Tillie Olson ==<br />
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In "I Want You Women Up North to Know" by Tillie Olson I found this line hilarious " ...she says that he prays and dreams of a another world...a heaven (which he does not know was brought to earth in 1917 in Russia, by workers like him)"...hind-sight is 20/20 right?- Emely Amaya<br />
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I found this reading interesting but at the same time confusing. Tillie Olson is clearly attacking the women in the north who are buying the clothes that are being made, but its these women that are allowing the women she is writing about to have their jobs. Yes, their conditions are horrible and the pay is horrible, but thats not a reason to attack the other women I would think. I would also think that the depression, while it might have lessened in the Northern cities, was still affecting their lives, so her accusations seem to me to be unjustified.- Elizabeth Frank<br />
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== Annelise Orleck, "Militant Housewives of the Depression" ==<br />
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I was amazed to learn how organized and militant housewives were during the Great Depression. Prior to reading this week's reading, I didn't know people were able to actually find constructive ways of regaining a semblance of their previous way of life during the Great Depression. --Justin Mattos<br />
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I LOVED this reading! I enjoyed seeing how women reacted to some of the hardships of the depression in a more aggressive way. I found it interesting that Orleck mentions that the women who were speaking out weren't doing so because they wanted the attention but because they wanted to be able to fulfill their duties as wives and mothers, which fits into the idea of what a woman was supposed to be doing, making their efforts more acceptable in society. I had no idea that they were able to accomplish so much or that the movement of housewives was so widespread across the U.S.! These I think are definitely ones who, if I was a mother during this period, I would want my children to respect and look up to because they were fighting for something they believed so strongly in (even though I'd prefer to be something more than a housewife). -Elizabeth Frank<br />
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This really was a fun article to read. I was very impressed at how these women managed to keep their life somewhat the same during the depression. -- Kellye Sorber<br />
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== All Eleanor Roosevelt readings ==<br />
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All of this week's readings about and created by Eleanor Roosevelt really confirmed history's seemingly high opinion of her. The fact that the Roosevelts' were able to constructively respond to all of their mail during the Great Depression is very admirable. --Justin Mattos<br />
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I thougth it was interesting that women actually took the time to write Eleanor Roosevelt about things that they desperately needed, like clothing and jobs for their husbands. Just thinking in today's world and if a depression happened now, I would think it pointless to write the first lady about what I desperately needed, just because I would think she for one probably would never even read the letter and two she probably wouldn't care much less help me. Yet so many women in the 1930's wrote her their depressing situations, I assume because they were just so desperate and no one else could help them so why couldn't the first lady. They probably thougtht too that Eleanor could influence her husband since he was the President to make him do something. Also article 5 and 6 in MP show that Eleanor did actually take recongnition of the problems during the depression and talked about the problems and spoke actively on many of the problems she saw.--Michelle M.<br />
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What I found interesting were the letters to the Roosevelt's and specifically Eleanor in both MAW and MPA. Like Michelle had said I wouldn't be writing to the first lady if there was a depression. Especially in today's society the letter would just get lost or thrown away. One of the letters did bother me a bit. I know it really shouldn't have but, the one about the little girl who wants roller blades.... to me its just so wrong. I know she is younger and doesn't understand what is going on, but it just really bugged me that she asked for roller blades when people are dieing of hunger, and are out of work and on the streets. Then there is this girl asking for roller blades because he friends are making fun of her. No matter what age you are things like that just bother me. Also wouldn't the parents maybe explain to their child that mommy and daddy are having a few problems financially? -- Amanda Taub<br />
'''(McClurken don't make fun of me to much in class, I like to be there when i am made fun of save a little for Tuesday).'''<br />
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For me the most interesting letter to Eleanor Roosevelt was the second one. The woman thanked Roosevelt for her reply to the last letter, but then said she did not need charity just a loan, even sending in collateral she claimed was valuable. However, what bothers me here is not the fact that the first lady could not possibly begin to make individual loans to people, but the size of this woman's ego or pride. She claimed she gave up her rings which held the highest emotional value to her, this is not true. What holds the highest value in this woman's life is clearly her ability to save face, her pride. If she was truly desperate, and in such great need that she would ask a loan from a stranger, she should be willing to give up her greatest asset; that of her ego, and take the charity that the government has set up for her. I have noticed the same trend more subtly throughout the rest of the readings, what is causing this? Is it a few isolated cases or does this pride fit in with the overall atttidue of the day, or somehow into the middle class ideals we have talked so extensively about? --- Landon Davis<br />
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I think that pride can be considered a weakness. I could understand a child asking for something as trivial as skates, but the mother sending a shopping list to Eleanor Roosevelt was bothersome. During a time of extreme financial hardship this women focussed on the clothing of an infant. Then I thought that maybe this woman may not have been able to apply to the Welfare Association. In my interview with a senior woman, she mentioned how her mother during the depression found a way to feed the family and save money. She was suggesting aid from the government, which her husband refused. There was a prevailing attitude at the time that if you were working you were not poor, and therefore did not need the government's assistance. Is the act of asking for a baby's layette prompted by this mother's vanity. This woman had to have clothing from previous children, but she seemed intent on having a new set. Is the ability to dress a child, even during the worst of times, a measure of her ability to be a good mother?--LisaM <br />
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I found the reading of "American Women ASk Eleanor for Help" Interesting as well as heartbreaking. It amazed me to read that within a day Eleanor would have 5 to 8 thousand letters and she made a huge effort to either answer them herself or pass it on to the correct agency. It surprised me the things the ladies asked for varying from roller skates to a job for a husband. How was Roosevelt able to answer all of these letters and was she able to satisfy the needs and wants of most? -- Rose Ferguson<br />
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"Eleanor Roosevelt Urges Better Understanding and Cooperation of Both White and Negro Races," <br />
In this reading, she is basically saying that in order to be respected, African Americans need to raise their standards of living. She says that everyone needs to work together to stop injustices.--Nikole Wellman<br />
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== Meridel Lesueur, "Despair of Unemployed Women" ==<br />
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Reading Meridel Lesueur's article really struck me. Just how starved the women were, and the endless sitting at the job bureau day after day. The description of some of their faces really made me feel a little sad. --Ashley Wilkins<br />
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I found this reading interesting because it showed that the middle class ideals, or what i guess could be described as middle class prejudice or maybe just denial in this case, still affected women even in this time of crisis. Where as before when the economy was good, women were not afforded the same opportunities as men (i.e. lower wages, lower glass ceilings, smaller scope of job opportunities), now in the depression women still arent afforded the same rights and opportunities as men (i.e. no flop houses, a cultural unwillingness to see women living in the parks, and charities only helping the deserving few). -- Landon Davis<br />
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Just the fact that citizens had so much trust in the Roosevelt's, particularly Eleanor, and that they actually did care about the American people, is very refreshing to think about in these jaded times. Phil N.<br />
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== Ann Marie Low's "The Dust Bowl" ==<br />
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Ann Marie Low's "The Dust Bowl" was intriguing to read. Just how much dust piled up and how much they had to wash to keep their dishes, clothes, and house clean was unreal. I had always been told that there was 'a lot of dust,' but this article really put it in perspective. How did the people manage to live in it? I know that it said many babies and elderly died in it, but how did people live in it? --Ashley Wilkins<br />
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I really like the piece titled Dust Bowl.Finding out the things these people had to go through. The excessive cleaning that occurs before anything, all the hours put into cleaning are such wasted hours. I never really thought of it like this, all this time spent on the cleaning could have been used for finding a job or getting more food. The one thing that did give me a little relief was that Ann Marie Low, the girl writing this had time for leisure, she was able to go out to the movies, that even through this she was able to maintain some social life. Even though sometimes housekeeping did get in the way she was able to do things for her self. -- Amanda Taub<br />
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Ignoring the fact of the endless dust, life for this family seemed to be much better, as Amanda said the girl seemed to have time for leisure, and the ham, eggs, and bread seem like a feast compared to the rations of crackers described in the earlier readings of women in the cities. Was this true for the majority of rural families compared with those in the cities? Or is this a rare case? As an afterthought, I still havent decided if I would rather starve or live in all that dust, both sound unpleasant.----Landon Davis<br />
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== Margaret Jarman Hagood's "The Life Cycle of a White Southern Farm Woman" ==<br />
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Margaret Jarman Hagood's "The Life Cycle of a White Southern Farm Woman" was so depressing! I was reading it and toward the end I had to stop and just stare at the book. I never realized that a baby that close to birth who was so active could just... die like that. 11 days before birth! I read it allowed to my husband and our friend who was visiting and they both stared at me and asked "Why are you reading something so depressing!?!?" Does those kinds of death still happen in America today? I mean, that close to birth? --Ashley Wilkins<br />
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This article bothered me a bit. Like Ashley I was shocked about the death of her baby so close to its birth but Margaret Hagood seemed to be extremely petty to me. She was annoyed because one of her children wasn't as pretty as she hoped and she just seemed annoyed that she couldn't have all the material things that she wanted. I just found her annoying because she seemed to not be upset because of the hardship of the depression but because she was worried that her daughter and that she, herself, wouldn't be viewed as pretty.- Elizabeth Frank<br />
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== Genora Johnson Dollinger, "Women and Labor Militancy" ==<br />
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Dollinger's essay on "Women and Labor Militancy" was interesting. I I had no idea some women took it so far and seriously in these union groups. Sure we've learned how they take a militant approuch, but the lady in this reading was beyond that. What I thought was so interesting about her was how she used her gender against the cops in order to get where and what she wanted. She knew as a women that the cops would not shoot her in the back like they would a man, and therefore marching herself right in there on these strikes helping to defend these men, as well as using a type of reverse psychology on the cops to try and get them to see their fight. Pretty smart. On top of that she is like, oh by the way I had TB while I was doing all of this. She had some guts. She had a lot of women back her up on these strikes and even though the cops did not shoot them like they may have done to men I wonder if any got arrested at least?--Michelle M.<br />
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Dollinger wrote about "Women and Labor Militancy" in the 1930's. Women formed the Emergency Brigade as their form of activism, which at the time was very appreciated by the men it was helping. However, as women's roles in these positions became less necessary and demands were being met, their roles became less necessary. People quickly reverted back to their previous expectations and as it states on page 170 men began saying, "Well, you women did a wonderful job, but now your duty is back there getting those kids in school, getting the wash done, and regular meals again…" Though the women were helpful for that time, does it really show progress for women and their increasingly public roles if it can disappear as quickly as it can emerge? I think it shows how easily the situation of women can change within certain societal conditions, how fragile progress can be, and how easily it is to revert back to the default. The challenge then becomes not how to be more active and make progress at a certain time or under certain circumstances, but how to use all of these collectively to change the default. –Jessica Kilday<br />
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I found it interesting to read the account of a woman raised in Flint Michigan and working with tue unions. Not only was I raised an hour or so south of Flint but both of my grandparents worked for the UAW during the depression. It's interesting to read what these women went through because its not something my grandparents talk about often. -- Rose Ferguson<br />
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== Carlotta Martin's "A Mexican-American Childhood during the Depression" ==<br />
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In "A Mexican-American Childhood during the Depression" Carlotta Martin discusses what is like growing up in the barrio and how difficult life was during the Great Depression. She mentions that it was more common for children to be raised by their grandparents. Would this be in the sense that was it common for grandparents to live in the same households as their children and other extended family and for them to serve as we would see babysitters today? Or did the grandparents take their grandchildren, live separately, and give both parents a chance to work. Was this common within other ethnic groups or social classes as well? Or did it simply serve as an opportunity for the children to get an education as opposed to working to help their struggling families during the depression? –Jessica Kilday<br />
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== Photo Essay ==<br />
Personally, I loved the Photo essay. I think that photographs are a really interesting way to show how things have changed from one era to the next and the pictures in this week's reading did just that. Seeing women in pants and with shorter hair on almost every girl was a neat thing to see because this had recently become a new fad. The photos are also a great way to visualize what we were talking about in class on Tuesday, including women working in men's jobs while they went off to war (like in the aviation plant photo) and joining and supporting unions (like in the auto workers' auxiliary photo). It kind of proves that all of this stuff really did happen which is beneficial when it seems kind of unreal that women wearing pants had been such a major controversy. -- Kelly Wuyscik<br />
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== Dorothy Dunbar Bromley on Birth Control in the Depression ==<br />
It annoys me how it took an economic depression to make people realize how important birth control was. It would happen that way, people say how immoral it is until babies become an economic burden that they can't afford. I am glad, however, that they DID realize it was important though because the more children, the harsher the despression would've been. It is sad to see that the poorer people always were the ones having the most children, that is unfortunately the way it usually is.- Emely Amaya<br />
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I agree with Emely Amaya's comment on the studies regarding the high number of births among poor people during the Great Depression. I was sort of wondering and hoping that studies such as those were the reason behind the repeal of prohibitions against the dissemination of information regarding birth control by AMA doctors. --Justin Mattos<br />
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Isnt it still true today that despite the wide availability and knowledge of birth control, the families that can not afford to have a child still are the ones who end up having the most children?--Landon Davis<br />
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I have to ask the same question Landon does because wide availability and knowledge of birth control does not necessarily solve the problem. I'm not suggesting that the Depression did not increase hardships or awareness for birth control. I think that the problem is more complicated. Perhaps the reasons are embedded in culture, or it may have more to do with the subservient status of women to men. In many cases the man dictates the use of birth control. I've read articles that suggest that young women would rather risk pregnancy that lose a boyfriend. Birth control only works if both partners are willing to use it.--LisaM<br />
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When it takes a depression for people to finally realize that having lots of children is not a good idea it really only effects those that had the money to have children in the first place. The ones that cant afford to are still going to have them. The ones that limited children due to the depression were typically middle class families. It is sad, that it continues to be the families that cant afford children that are having such large numbers. -- Kellye Sorber<br />
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== Lydia Mendoza recalls her career in the Depression ==<br />
I loved the Lydia Mendoza recollection. Her modesty was overwhelming, but at the same time she was able to effectively describe how tough the depression was on families, and especially on minorities. Having to play in the plaza for two nights in a row just to make up the rent for the week had to have been difficult and you can really understand why her mother was hesitant about letting her travel to go on the radio show. If I were her mother I probably would have done the same thing -- her daughter was earning her quite a bit in the plaza so why change that, right? At the same time, I think it was wonderful that the manager found her a sponsor - it's kind of romanticized really and the way a great success story should start. I also liked how, by reading Lydia's piece, you could tell that women were still trying to establish themselves alongside men in the music world (and life in general.) "It was a very pretty sight and very special because we were women and very young..." Her discussion of the plaza being filled entirely with groups of men playing their instruments just emphasizes how all cultures dealt with a gender struggle. --Kelly Wuyscik<br />
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It makes be sad to read how greatly people struggled because of the Great Depression. I, like Kelly, enjoyed reading about Lydia Mendoza. I was moved by the since of "togetherness" her family had. Everyone in the family was involved in the musical group, all working together for survival. I suppose that tragedy and tough times bring people together. The move from Michigan to Texas took 3 months because they had to stop and perform for food and gas. Lydia Mendoza was modest and very sweet with her words. I found it interesting that Lydia's father gave up. He would not get up and to try to get work even when seeing Ignacio coming home with produce to eat. He was proving a point, but his family was starving.--Nikole Wellman<br />
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== P’ing Yu, Racism among white CA Clubwomen, 1937 ==<br />
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An interesting point with this reading. It dutiful for club women to work for rights of African American women but not with them. The Clubwomen still wanted to choose their friends and the members of the clubs.-Nikole Wellman<br />
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== Louise Mitchell, Denounces the “Slave Markets” where Domestics are Hired in NYC, 1940 ==<br />
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It is so sad that so many young women had to stand on the street corners just to try to get work. I was surprised that domestic workers made up most of the country's job force, especially when it was a last resort job for women. Reading the piece about the domestic "slave markets" really showed how hard it was for women, especially African-American women, to get jobs. --Kellye Sorber</div>74.214.55.6 Deprecated: header(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($response_code) of type int is deprecated in /home/umwhisto/public_html/mcclurken/wiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 38